trip to new york city. [ cheering ] his trip to new york city relatively short, less than 40 hours, but packing in a whole lot and coming in contact with so many new yorkers. the pope arriving at jfk thursday night. once in midtown, a ride in the popemobile. up close with the crowds who he likes to be close to. he didn't want that eight-foot wall the secret service and nypd insisted be installed. his first stop -- st. patrick's, where they worked overtime to complete the $177 million renovation just in time for the papal visit. >> papa francesco, welcome to st. patrick's cathedral. [ cheers and applause ] >> the pope at the packed cathedral for an evening prayer service. >> [ speaking spanish ] [ applause ] >> he then began a busy friday morning taking the world stage at the u.n., addressing his concerns to world leaders gathered for the general assembly. >> [ speaking spanish ] >> interpreter: any harm done to harm to humanity. [ choir singing ] >> from the united nations, a somber visit to the 9/11 memorial, a multi-religious service for victims in the worst terror attack ever on u.s. soil. [ bell tolls ] then friday afternoon, he headed to a catholic school in east harlem that serves many poor and immigrant children. it was a stop designed to show his concern for immigrants and those struggling to make ends meet. >> [ singing ] >> thank you very much. >> from there, a spin through central park in the popemobile, greeted by tens of thousands. [ cheers and applause ] it was an event pope francis insisted on to be closer to the people of new york, and then he was on to the last major event of the new york visit -- a mass at madison square garden. here's "eyewitness news" reporter jim dolan. >> francis stopped first for the few, for the children, ministering to the sick with a parents, was overwhelming. >> i was shaking the whole time. it didn't go away till like 30 minutes, 40 minutes. >> 17-year-old paul gomez was right there. >> pope francis just came over and put his hand on him, and everyone just started crying. like, i'm usually not an emotional guy, and i just started tearing up. >> here was the holy father and this sometimes unsettled new york congregation mingling despite their differences, the pope who catholics pray for at every mass in every church. >> and now here you are. [ chuckles ] [ cheers and applause ] >> pope francis smiled broadly at that, energized perhaps by the chance to preach before this large new york congregation -- 20,000 strong inside, and even that was just the beginning. the faithful lined the streets outside the garden, as well, knowing they couldn't get into the mass but content for the moment to be near. >> hallelujah >> inside a traditional roman catholic mass, but this one so special because of the man celebrating it with them. >> [ speaking spanish ] [ operatic singing ] >> the pope's homily in this big city arena turned sanctuary focused on the plight of the urban poor and the peace that comes from service to them. >> [ speaking spanish ] >> interpreter: god is living in our cities. >> it was really just an uplifting experience, seeing all non-catholics, catholics alike coming together. >> i'm happy he came to united states of america. and i'm able to celebrate with him today. >> in the end, a final papal blessing on the way out and a congregation so taken with this close encounter. >> i'm in awe, to be honest. i can't believe he's physically here. >> in his homily, pope francis talked about the many challenges of living in a big city where the cultures and economic he suggested to the congregation that they look for solutions to those problems in that very diversity. there, he said, is where the answers lie. at the garden, jim dolan, channel 7 "eyewitness news." >> pope's final stop is a mass in philadelphia starting at 4:00 today. i'll anchor our coverage from there later this evening. one of the biggest concerns of pope francis has been the poor and the homeless. new york's homeless population now at record levels. everyone talks about it, but those in power, well, solutions appear to have been elusive. is the problem that intractable or are we just unwilling to do what it takes to alleviate homelessness? it's a problem that affects more than just those who are without a home, of course. this morning we talk to new york city's best-known advocate for the homeless to find out why haven't we solved this problem after all these years? she is the face of new york city's fight to deal with homelessness, and with the homeless situation more visible, more prevalent, more troubling than ever, mary brosnahan joins us now to talk about solutions, trying to solve this issue. not your typical career, but it has been for more than two decades that has, indeed, been your career. it is not -- it's unusual to have homeless advocate on your r\sum\, but that's what that says, right? >> it is, and the work at the coalition is just so compelling, not just the people i work with, but the homeless people we meet every day. really an inspiration. >> before we get into weeds of how to solve this problem -- and i know you have a lot of ideas -- you got into this sort of accidentally, i understand. you were a dukakis volunteer and you moved to new york after the '88 campaign? >> well, i had lived in new york and went out on the field, so you know the drill. you're in a different city every three days. and it took leaving and coming back to new york for me to realize how out of control the situation was. and i was living in the east village at the time and started talking to a group of homeless men who were living near cooper union. it was really -- impacted me hearing some of them were trying to clean up to get day labor and others were completely with profound mental illness. and my boyfriend at the time said, "if you're really serious, you should work at the coalition. it's the group really fighting for change." >> and it was a small group, then, right? like $1 million, $2 million budget or something? >> yeah, yeah, now we have a $12 million budget. we have 11 different direct service programs. you probably see our vans out every night. we feed 1,000 people in the street, sleep-away camp for homeless kids, lots of job training, different programs, and that really feeds our advocacy because we're out on the front lines hearing from homeless new yorkers what they want to see. >> but you have grown that. i mean, there's no question. the bright light that is mary brosnahan -- that has grown this coalition for the homeless. >> well, i would say it's the people that surround me. you know, the coalition attracts a certain type of person. we're in business to go out of business, so it's not your typical charity. we really want to make this problem go away and give everyone a decent home. >> i should say, just as full disclosure, but also as, i think, an insight -- peter jennings was a very big supporter of yours, both professionally and personally. >> yeah. you, and he was just -- you were shining bright for him. >> yeah, you know, it's hard to believe 10 years just passed without him. >> yeah, this last summer. >> you know, kayce, his wife, is still very much involved, but yeah, peter was one in a million, as you know. he was the kind of guy who he would come out, you know, unannounced on our feeding program. if the van broke down, he'd be the guy out back pushing the van, you know. he just was in it, you know, really wanted to get his hands dirty, so to speak. and there was something about homeless people. he and kayce would frequently walk through central park and, you know, develop a kinship with people and get them housed. he really felt very deeply about the issue. >> i think a lot of people are affected by this, and i want to dig a little deeper into why people react the way they do to homelessness. some people are repelled by homeless people. other people, i think, have a different view and say, "that could be me." >> right. >> "i'm one paycheck away from that" or "something happens to there." >> yeah. well, sometimes it's a mix. i had -- about a year ago, i was with my son, and there was a homeless man on our street corner, and the side of his face had obviously been burned terribly many years ago, and i sandwich?" deli. and afterwards, quinn said to me, "mommy, he could have stolen your wallet," you know. and you realize as a parent also you're running that gauntlet with your child, and, you know, quinn is the most compassionate, you know. on days when i'm completely fed up, one time he said to me, "mommy, i know why you're upset. it was pouring rain." and i said, "why?" he said, "'cause today is not a good day to be homeless." >> there you go. >> and so, you know, even from a child with an open heart like that, there still, you know, can be those moments where they perceive danger. >> and from the child of the city's most prominent homeless advocate, they feel like that. so the battle that you're for, that you face every day is a tough one to get the public's support for you. >> yeah. well, what's remarkable -- i just remember when we went head to head with giuliani when he was trying to arrest everyone and then also in court trying to do away with the right to shelter, which is how the coalition was founded. you know, over 80% of the folks in new york sided with the coalition. they wanted the right to shelter. they understand. you know, they're sophisticated people. they understand that we have this right to shelter, that the front end of those shelters can be very off-putting, especially to the mentally ill. and they understand that housing is the solution. >> you got involved with the de blasio/giuliani debate a couple weeks ago where they really went at it. >> mm-hmm. >> they really went at it. and you took off after giuliani. >> well, it's just to hear him pipe up. i'm sure you've seen the footage, giuliani saying the solution is to chase, chase them, chase them, chase them. it's not the solution, and i think that people noticed a difference in the streets while giuliani was in office. but if you look sort of at the next level, what was going on agreement to build thousands of units of housing, supportive housing, for the mentally ill. and those final units actually from the third agreement are running out, so the big key if we're gonna just say one thing about policy today is that we need a fourth new york/new york agreement, and so both andrew cuomo and bill de blasio need to step up and commit to those 30,000 units. that's what's gonna make a difference on our streets. >> the number of homeless under giuliani -- de blasio said it went up 40%. it went up dramatically under mayor bloomberg. >> under both, yeah. off. mudslinging. you said, "asking giuliani for advice on homelessness is like asking bill cosby to pour your wife a drink." did you regret saying that or... >> a part of me does, but part of me doesn't. you know, for giuliani to rear his head now and say that he has the solution to homelessness and continues to say that the solution is to chase people out of sight, it's just preposterous. you know, we're interested in solutions, not chasing people to the outer boroughs. >> so let's talk about solutions. there are all sorts of vacant buildings in this city that the city owns. why don't we get them to build affordable housing? give it to developers -- only affordable housing -- and get people a place to live? >> well, it's great that you keyed in on that because you remember ed koch and sort of his political deathbed conversion. the great legacy that he had was that remarkable 10-year capital campaign. 10% of those units were dedicated to homeless new yorkers, and that was down. giuliani sort of rode the coattails of that 10 years. and so we very much are trying to get bill de blasio to commit 10% of his huge capital campaign right now to house the homeless. we have a lot of rental assistance programs that have been put forth, but we can't voucher our way out of this problem. we need to have that capital commitment. >> why not have developers just come in and build affordable housing? >> oh, listen, this is one of the heated battles behind the push to get more housing, deeper subsidies to get truly affordable housing. i mean, there's so many people watching tonight, of course -- this afternoon that are, you know, just barely making it and so we have income caps. but if you have an income cap of say $80,000, it's not something that a desperately poor, almost homeless, or virtually homeless person is able to afford. >> let me ask you a quick question about women in need, because i am seeing a couple events for them, and it's an impressive organization. chris quinn, christine quinn, a life force. bonnie stone, the former executive director, was an incredible housing advocate, and christine quinn now takes that over. she's gonna deal with mayor de blasio about homeless problems. it's gonna be an interesting battle, maybe, right? >> it will, and, you know, i have dealt with chris quinn most recently when she was advising andrew cuomo. and the real chris quinn -- i love chris when she's got fire, and she stepped up when she was city council speaker and helped us get rid of these horrible 3/4 houses, so i'm looking forward to working with her as an advocate. >> okay, mary brosnahan, chief executive officer of the coalition for the homeless and the one person who really built this organization into a powerhouse. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, bill. >> all right, mary. when we come back, we're gonna switch topics, a look at the controversy over the safety of vaccinations sparked by the last join the millions who have already switched. we switched. and now, we're streaming netflix. who knew time warner cable's internet was so fast! mom switched. and now, we can watch our favorite shows together, on demand. i switched. so i can connect to the internet just about anywhere with my free twc wifi hotspots. join the millions who switched to time warner cable. for $89.99 a month, you'll get 100meg internet, and hundreds of hd channels. you'll also get unlimited calling across the u.s. and 34 other countries around the world. call today. i switched. now i have a free app that lets me watch tv whenever i have the time. for $89.99 a month you'll get tv, internet and phone. and if you call now, there's no risk, no contract, no catch, no kidding. i switched to time warner cable and knew exactly when they were coming. thanks to their one hour appointment window. switch to time warner cable today. and ask how you could get a $300 reward card. call today. >> welcome back to "upclose." the last republican presidential televised debate watched by 23 million people. it stirred up a lot of controversies, but this morning we're gonna talk about a new one, and it hit home for many parents -- the issue, the safety of vaccinations. epidemic. 25 years ago, 35 years ago, you look at the statistics -- not even close. control. i am totally in favor of vaccines, but i want smaller doses over a longer period of time, because you take a baby in -- and i've seen it, and i've seen it, and i had my children taken care of over a long period of time, over a two- or three-year period of time. same exact amount. >> that was donald trump, not an md, talking about that. joining us this morning, an md, dr. jay varma. he's the deputy commissioner for the disease control for new york city's health department. doctor, welcome. having me. >> what's your reaction when you hear dr. donald trump talk like that? >> yeah, it's very dismaying for those of us in public health who have worked so hard to bring the infectious disease rate down so dramatically. you know, the great accomplishment of the 20th century in health has been the development of vaccines. they're safe, they're effective, and they've prevented hundreds of thousands of illnesses and hundreds of thousands of deaths not just in the united states, but all over the world. >> and yet you know that a lot of people are gonna listen to what donald trump said and agree with him. the man next to him, doctor -- a real doctor -- ben carson did agree with him. >> yeah, i think it was particularly troubling for those of us who are physicians and who work in public health to not see a much stronger position from people on the stage, particularly those candidates that are physicians, because the science on this is absolutely clear. if you expose the body to the parts of a vaccine, they will become a strong immune system, they will fight off these infections, and they'll be protected for life against a whole range of conditions which we know sicken and kill people. >> this old husband's tale that donald trump was talking about, there are some people who believe that. it's very controversial. it sounds so dramatic when you say, "well, autism rates have gone up. we're blaming it on vaccines for >> yeah, the original theory behind this -- it's very important for people to understand -- was made in a period where people didn't really understand what was going on with autism. we still don't fully understand. and there were lots of theories being bandied about. and unfortunately, that original theory was a complete fraud. the doctor who wrote the study was later shown to have fabricated all of the data in it. his medical license was taken away in the u.k. but unfortunately, when people are concerned about their children's health, they'll often, you know, feel like any theory is potentially plausible, and this one, unfortunately, has that very disastrous consequence. >> just for the record, we as the news media reported the fraud part of it highly, but once it's out there, the perception becomes reality. and that's what you're finding. >> yeah, rumors are very hard to eliminate in people's mind. and, in fact, there's been a lot of studies even looking at vaccine education showing that even if you educate a group of people about the risks of vaccines, all they hear are the risks. they never hear the safety side. and the risks are incredibly small. they're the same risks that you incur any time you are encountering a medical office. and so we know that the safety of these vaccines is truly extraordinary, and if there's anything to be worried about, autism is not the thing to be worried about. you should be worried about making sure your children are protected against these diseases. >> let's dig a little deeper. what are the risks? i mean, there are some risks. what are they? what is the miniscule percentage that you're talking about? >> so, what happens is, any time you get an injection in a doctor's office, there's always the risk that there could be an infection at the site or there can be inflammation at the site. and we know, of course, people are gonna feel pain any time a so that's one risk. >> but they're not talking about that, right? >> correct. what people are worried about are the very rare complications that can occur, and we're talking about 1 in 100,000 or 1 in a million where a child will get a very high temperature and may have a seizure as a result of that. and, again, we know that these things can occur. they're extremely well-studied. but we also know that they affect an incredibly small number of people, and we know that the risk of not getting a vaccine is far, far greater than any risk associated with receiving one. >> so, when you hear like the statement that mr. trump made about the high rates of autism -- and there is no question autism is a huge epidemic almost in this country, and the numbers are through the roof and they have skyrocketed. but what do you tell people, then? what's it attributed to? >> yeah, so i think there are a couple of problems. you know, the first challenge is explaining the rise in autism diagnoses in the united states, and there isn't a satisfying answer to that. i think what we try to deliver the message as is that focusing on this theory, which has been shown demonstrably to be wrong, not just because the original study was a fraud, but because there have been millions of kids different studies to demonstrate that this is, in fact, wrong. but focusing on vaccines really detracts from where the research needs to be, which is understanding what genetic factors cause autism and then what environmental factors, factors other than what's in your genes, cause it. >> in new york city, do parents have the option to opt out? i know the school my kids go to and went to, you had to get vaccines. they wouldn't let you in. >> well, the strongest ways that we have reached very high vaccination rates in new york -- over 99% of public school students are up to date on their vaccines -- is by having very strong regulations. the only exemptions that are available are if you have a very rare medical condition, for example, that prevents you from getting one or more vaccines or, more commonly, people cite a religious reason. and the standard for that is they have to express a sincere and genuine religious belief, and the people adjudicating this have to believe that they are valid and sincere in their statements. you know, from our perspective, from the perspective of the health department, we know very clearly that across the united states anywhere you have strict standards for public school entry, you have high vaccination rates, and even more important, you have very low rates of infectious disease outbreaks from these diseases. >> so that's the bottom line. there's a huge payoff. what's interesting to me is the people who say, "i don't want my kids to do it because i'm worried that there may be some link to autism." well, you know, their kids are safe typically because everyone else is vaccinated. >> yeah, it's a real challenge because some people want to essentially freeload off others. they want to say, "well, i'm gonna keep my child unvaccinated because all the other kids are vaccinated and therefore they'll be protected." that's a dangerous situation to be in. one of the reasons it's dangerous is that, of course, those ideas spread, and then you get a larger and larger number of people who are unvaccinated, and you don't have that protected group, and the other reason is that we know that there are all sorts of ways that you can be exposed to these diseases. we live in a global city. people are coming to this country from all over the world all the time. a disease that exists somewhere else is a disease that can exist in new york city. so just because your neighbor has been vaccinated and you haven't been, it doesn't mean you're fully protected. >> that's a good point. although it does lessen the percentages, no question about it. flu season coming up. what are we expecting? is the health department prepared? >> so, the health department -- we prepare every year for flu. flu is, just like taxes, something you're gonna expect every season. and we protect the city of new york by doing a number of things. the most important is that we help supply vaccines to a large percentage of the pediatric offices in the city. we know the most vulnerable population are children under the age of 5. and getting high rates of vaccinations in young kids not only helps those kids make it through the flu season without illness. it also can protect the rest of the community. >> let's talk briefly about legionnaires'. your office got all the paperwork on it and had to deal with it. 12 people died, more than 100 people sickened. are you worried about potential outbreaks in the future? did we handle it as well? what did you learn from it? what's the future hold? >> yeah, this is a very challenging disease because legionella, this bacteria, lives with us in the environment. you know, we live around bacteria all the time, and that's one of the reasons we don't worry so much about babies getting vaccines because, you know, babies are exposed to bacteria all the time and their immune systems fight it off. with legionnaires', we know there is a small group of people, people who are elderly, who have a preexisting lung condition, people who are cigarette smokers who are particularly susceptible to this infection, and we know that cooling towers, which are these structures that exist in some buildings, can release this bacteria into the air. >> what do we do about it? >> i think our response in new york city has been, first of all, to really, you know, look at what happened in this outbreak, and this was incredibly tragic. a number of people got sick, and as you know, a number of people lost their lives. and the best strategy moving forward is for us to get a better handle on where all the cooling towers in the city, and that's what the city council and the mayor have done. and most importantly, make sure they're cleaned and disinfected on a regular schedule. >> and the building owners now have to do that or they face penalties. is that enough of an incentive, do you think? >> you know, we think that the strategy that we're taking, making sure that every building owner registers their building, documents that it's been inspected, documents that it's been cleaned is going to do a long way towards preventing an outbreak like this from happening again. >> dr. jay varma, the infectious disease specialist. you can wash your hands after you shake mine, okay? thanks, doctor. appreciate it. >> quick program reminder for you -- pope francis wraps up his six-day historic visit in philadelphia tonight. the big mass starts at 4:00. i'm gonna anchor our live coverage from there tonight. and on that note, that'll do it for this edition of "upclose." i'm bill ritter in for diana williams. if you missed any of today's program, you can catch it again on our website, abc7ny. thanks for watching today. on behalf of all of us here, for channel 7, enjoy the rest of