Sorry. In terms of cost benefit, when thinking about the resources of the city and your department in particular for purposes of repairing sidewalk versus removing something that is obviously damaged, the sidewalks will continue to in some form require some maintenance. How do you weigh those cost . If taking aside a minute the health of the tree, the imminent hazard, taking that aside. Just dollars in cost . Carla short, department of public works. Generally we dont take away those other factors because larger trees provide more benefit to the city in terms of their environmental services. So when we are looking at, its true we have limited resources and obviously, repairing a sidewalk more than once may seem as though its not worth it with the cost, but if you look at that means maturization of a tree and then with Community Concerns which was the deciding fact or in this case. Okay. Good answer. All right. The commissioners who have already spoken. I just want to say for the record that this is very difficult. I dont live close enough to require a recusal but i am in that neighborhood and i do appreciate those trees. So that tree in particular, i dont have any particular relationship to it. But the way it an appears on that block and it does create the types of benefits that miss short just described that is hard to put a price tag on. In looking at the challenges that are faced by the property owner, the appellant here, i think there is value added to having such a Beautiful Tree next to your property for its value in fact. So, those are just my thoughts. I know it appears, it would require four for returning. I think we are going to have to continue this because im not prepared to vote for removal for striking the departments position. So our process here is such that if it appears that the missing commissioners vote will make a difference. In this case you will. We have three that have an inclination to over turn the departments decision to deny removal. I have indicated an inclination to sustain the department. Commissioner hurtados vote will make a difference. We are going to continue this based on that practice. Okay. I know you need to suggest a date. I didnt know if the department had any concerns about attending meetings in the shortterm. In the shortterm, no pun intended. I am leaving for vacation tomorrow. Next meeting is july 10th. I will fly back july 10th, but i wont be here on time. If the 17th works, that will be good for me. Cmon up to the microphone. Im not quite understanding on what you have ruled on. We havent. Let me be a little clear here. If anybody wants to help me out. I dont understand why you want to take a tree if we are talking process, merits are a separate question. You dont have extra time to argue those. Do you have a question about the process here . Yes the process is that three have indicated to go with your inclination to go with your ruling. Im not. Its not personal. The commissioner who is absent then could make a deciding vote in your favor or against you depending on what she reviews. After she reviews the record and the merits and she will attend the hearing on july 17. She will have an opportunity to ask questions. At that point in time we will deliberate once again and take a vote if the motion is made to go one way or another. It requires four to over turn a departments decision. Okay . We have a motion then from the president to continue this matter to july 17th, the public hearing has been held and this continuance is to allow commissioner hurtado to participate in the final vote. On that motion, commissioner fung . Aye, lazarus . Aye, honda . Aye. Thank you, this vote is 40. This matter will continue on july 17th. No additional briefing. So we are ready to call item no. 9. Is miss cold well st ill in the room . All right. Let me just call the item first and then i will ask you to please stay an we can address the board. This is the property 162 west portal avenue protesting the issuance april 11, 2013, to bay area gold and silver buyers. Secondhand dealer permit. I asked if the permit holder was in the room. Im captain i represent the Police Department in this matter. She notified me that she is withdrawing the permit application because the Police Department no longer supports her decision. Shes left the building. Is there something that happens when a permit is withdrawn. Is there a process with a notification or documentation . We would send a confirmation on it and go from there and she is not here and we are not supporting granting the permit at this time. Okay. All right. Thank you. Its a little bit of a change. Yeah. So commissioners didnt the Police Department issue the permit . We did issue it. I dont understand the process. They couldnt even do that because its before the board. Have you issued a permit that you cant support . Yes. I can explain. If you give me the Readers Digest version. The process was that the permit was granted, the west Portal Merchants Association an appealed that. It came to my desk and i just represented the Police Department and prepared the brief in support of the permit. The captain at the station never got all the letters in opposition for this permit and because of that he didnt get a chance to review the record completely. Had he gotten those letters he would have not recommended granting the permit. Based on that, the Police Department no longer supports the granting of that permit. Miss cold well said if the Police Department is not going to support me im not going to challenge the appeal and she left. Its interesting. Its her permit. If shes not here to defend it. Okay. Shes not. So commissioners in the building context, the Building Permit context someone can ask the build department to the appeal of that permit becomes moot because there is no subject matter for that appeal. We should have never let joe leave. Are you asking the Police Department send you a similar letter . Obviously the matter is here before you. You can take whatever action you wish. You can continue it or decide it or uphold or return. In my view, basing this on a canceling that we have obviously we have the officer here that that is what miss cold well has asked for but we havent seen this documented. Im uncomfortable process wise. May i make a suggestion. We have the west portal association make their presentation because they are the appellant and im as a respondent to tell you shes withdrawn her position. Shes not here. I think we can continue it, but can i get since you already gave us a description of what took place in terms of the chronology, i would like to know a little bit more about why the communications of the west portal or whoever objected to this permit did not get to the presiding officer in your department. Captain . Okay. What was the timing . Did it come in after . That would be helpful for me. Thank you, commissioners. Im captain curtis, the Commanding Officer for the police district. One of the duties that i do is review permits and make recommendationed to approve it. In this case there is a process. We have to post it for ten days and we did not and that did not give the concerned people enough time to make their views known. Subsequently when it was approved at the hearing t west Portal Merchants Association was not able to make their concerns known and i did not realize the opposition towards it. The next step was the board of appeals and the attorney for the west portal association sent the information to the permit bureau and they gave it to captain osuna. I never saw this information until recently. I didnt realize there was over 80 letters of opposition until monday. So thats why our position changed. Right. It was after the issuance. Im sorry to cut you off. Im trying to follow the timeline. Are you saying that the department didnt provide sufficient notice for objection for the 10 day period . How many days notice . Two days. Okay. Its the issuance of the permit was defective. Okay. I see. Thank you. I think we should continue. If for nothing else is the fact that the permit holder is not here. Please dont speak unless you are invited to speak or unless its your turn. Please dont. I dont want to be harsh. I agree with commissioner funs suggestion here to continue it. In the meantime if we are provided with information that the permit holder is withdrawn and that notice is provided then we dont need to have that hearing. Why dont we do it that way . [inaudible] who are you . Im a member of the public. Not yet. You have not been asked or loud allowed to speak yet. You may want to allow the appellant to speak. The representative for the appellant. Is that you. If you would like the person from the public that stood up to be part of your presentation. We would just ask that you not continue the hearing. Would you state your name . My name is dan kramer and i represent the west portal association. I represent the newest process. The notice was for two days and not for 10. This is a violation of the rule no. 7. Thats initially the process. Also we feel that the applicant did not provide complete information on the application which is a revocable issue. So, furthermore, it sounds like the Police Department believes that the permit shouldnt have been issued. There is many members of the public who agree with that and the applicant has left and indicated her decision to withdraw the permit. So, we respectfully request that you make a decision this evening on this matter. Thank you. In the past when boards have been confronted with permit holders that dont show, boards have revoked the permit. We would issue a know show letter to them analyzed and they would have 10 days to request a rehearing. There has been a number of ways. But i need to Say Something madam president to the people in the audience and the appellants representative. In the same way that you have made predominantly a procedural and policy base appeal regarding your rights for process at the hearing, in the same way the permit holder has certain rights and by not being here, im not comfortable with hearing anything including public testimony related to this case. I dont think its fair to the process or to the permit holder. [inaudible] no you may not. Im sorry you have a representative. Excuse me, you are out of order. Please sit down. You are not helping yourself right now. You have not been asked to speak either. Anyone else have anything . I would support a continuance. Okay. Are you suggesting to revoke the permit . Is that a viable option . It is. There is no permit holder so there is no hearing without a permit holder. Here is what was suggested by the captain is we can have a hearing based on what they have and we can make a ruling today. I have deep respect for his view here and we could do it the way that we would have a hearing without the permit holder and revoke. But we have a problem with the process. We have a Police Department that had a flawed process and its probably not going to be in dispute. This permit is going to be withdrawn. We expect that. Its not withdrawn, there is a problem with the process. We have to go through that process to make that process right. But in any event. We are not going to have, to the extend we have a motion on continuance or we discuss a continuance, we will allow everyone that really needs to speak on this subject to have an opportunity to speak on the subject of the continuance. But we are trying to understand what happened here because the permit holder left according to the captain spoke. Im sorry, i dont know your name. We have many options. We are not going to make a decision without having an actual process here. I hope thats clear for everyone in the room. Okay. So if we wanted to talk about a continuance which is not, weve heard objection from the representative of the appellant, i think its time for people who want to speak to that to address that issue. With a show of hand how many people want to speak to the issue of the continuance and not the merits . Youve already spoken. You are not a member of the public. Anyone part of the organization that is not a member of the public for this purpose. Okay. I too greatly respect commissioner fungs opinion. However, the applicant is not a party to this issue. Its the respondent is the Police Department. So technically there is no due process issue with the applicant. Its the interested party. She has a stake in this process. She was here and chose to leave. So under the boards rules people who are officers of the west Portal Merchants Association are not allowed to speak under Public Comment because they are represented by mr. Kramer, but general members arrest are allowed to participate under Public Comment. If there is anyone in those categories who would like to speak please come forward. Can you raise your hand so i can determine how much time to let you have. This is only on the subject of continuance. I would like two minutes each. My name is caroline johnson, the reason why i would object to a continuance or at the minimum allow the people who are here, members of the neighborhood who have been waiting around for 3 1 2 hours to speak, to just be able to get up and say what they think or at least demonstrate by the standing, their interest in this process. So they dont have to come back and do this again. We spent 3 1 2 hours waiting around and the person who is affected by this chose to leave. And all of us chose to stay. That means you win. Well, it seems that we should at least be heard and not have to come back for this again. So i wont speak to the merits but i will ask [inaudible] speak into the microphone, please. Speak about this opposition in support of this members of the neighborhood who objected and came specifically for this hearing. I recognize your view. I am sympathetic. I hope that trying to keep order in this room does not suggest to anyone that im unsympathetic to anyone here. Im mr. Perkins from the neighborhood here. Im a portal resident. I just want to clarify one thing. If we have couples to that the permit has been withdrawn or denied by the Police Department, is there any need to have a continued hearing particularly when im sure this board has a lot on its plate that it could better more productively spend its time. I believe if the director, if our office if the board of Appeals Office has been provided of sufficient notice of the withdrawal of the permit, we will have no need for hearing on the merits. Thank you. Next speaker, please. My name is miller and im a resident at west portal and speaking to the continuance i think its unfair that i took time out of my workday and the woman who represents the other side chose to leave and then there is the possibility that all of us are going to have to come back and sit for another three 1 2 hours because she chose to leave. Thank you. Next speaker. My name is shepherd and i i have lived in the west portal neighborhood for about 40 years. I was born in San Francisco. I would object to your providing aid and assistance to somebody who has tried to subvert the process that you are so ableey trying to protect. She did not pick up her notice that she was supposed to post in the window of the prospective business until two days before the hearing. I dont believe that she didnt know the rules or the process before she picked up the notice because shes been, im sure shes been represented by able council in her attempts to establish a business in San Francisco. And i dont think that the rules in San Francisco are so different than in other parts of the country. Her organization does business in texas, oklahoma and mexico. She does business all over the place. She has several outlets in southern california. I think what you are doing by delaying the process rather than completing it tonight, you would be adding to the subject subversion of the process that shes already done. Thank you. Any other Public Comment . Please step forward and other people please step forward so we can continue this, thank you. Hi, my name is craig shiler, i lived in the west portal neighborhood since 1988. I know its a nice neighborhood and becoming more of a magnet as it became more of a better developed commercial area. When i heard some facts about the two day posting, i was shocked at the notice that this was an issue. Thats such a red flag to me. Whats the purpose of the notice . So people can look at the business. You have a trial and you dont invite the prosecutor or defendant. It made no sense to me. It was a slam dunk that it was not going to approve the permit. This is a place to comment to find out what other people know about the business in case that business is for someone that is very damaging to the neighborhood. That opportunity wasnt given. That could be a bad apple who never got looked at because they didnt post a notice that people needed to know what to say. The comments of course came late. More importantly, is the fact that what does it mean when somebody doesnt post a notice. You can presume that it wasnt intentional, but in all probability, you have to assume if the presumption in this case that they knew the rules and may have had a reason not to. In this case, because of the type of business this would be and who it would bring in the neighborhood, its more important that this person is outstanding with a high degree of integrity. I know this is not appropriate but i have seen articles about some of prior things said about the couple when they had other businesses in texas in fact that is a serious concern. Thank you. So we are asking for Public Comment on the question of the continuance. Not the merits. My name is stacy lawrence. I live on 15th avenue. I will spare my thoughts about why i think its an unsuitable business. This case has not been properly noticed and therefore the neighborhood got up in arms and came to fight to say a permit shouldnt be granted when we havent had our opportunity. Given that, the fact she chose to leave under fire is really a moot point. I would suggest that you rule on that this evening. Thank you. Any other Public Comment . Ok