Could happen because the facility is more active in the lower one and my date is and so on. And so this is extremely dangerous, but i think the shelling is also important in itself because it is very clear that the purpose of the ukrainians and the western backers of the ukrainian regime is still good russians out. I is to prove that the very presence or for russian or russian troops, i, in the breeze, your region, i live alone at the station is a threat to International Security. So which is false or whatever is their intention. The means that they are choosing to do that, you know, even if they were just after any other strategic facility, lets say an error forth, the desire to take it back or to cause as much damage as possible would have been tactically understandable. But in this case, the damage cannot be contained, is the instinct of self preservation. Totally often key because it can Nuclear Cloud with reach keith much faster or than moscow for that matter. It could reach any other european capital. Well, i think all the history of the last 6 months and beyond proofs of the instinct of survival is oh i yes. Because if this instinct has been there, they would have already agreed with a political settlement of the conflict along the lines. The prospect has been suggesting since early march, but the problem is that they are molten dependent and their political decisions are led by the United States. And by the british who probably think, even if the Nuclear Disaster happens in a dorm extension, they will be less or especially of the United States, which is also, which is also beyond. So the political purpose of grooving of the false allegation, the very presence of russia, is the threat most of the shelling by you the, by the ukrainians. Rob the presence of russia is above of the real dangers of the, of the nuclear stress. And make sure even if we agree that lets say the are you great leadership is suffering from p s d and cannot assess the situation objectively or sanely for that matter. It has a number of very strong and very vocal european allies who are allocated very near ukraine. And i know that for example, you mentioned that your normal disaster, its to manifest itself in many areas of europe and asia. For example, in turkey, in the hyphen rates of cancer and long they affected populations, you mentioned fukushima. And then there were a number of very important Strategic Decisions taken. For example, in germany, the decision to suspend Nuclear Activity because of the fears associated with the consumer. So why are the europeans so laid back about that, even if they fully agree with the ukrainian intention to kind of cancel out the rush altogether . Well, i think the reason is the course, the conflict. I just created such a political atmosphere in the west, in general, and in europe in particular, which for them from saying the truth, which prevents them from a ward, which criticizes your grain or even is different than do you agree, maam. Their weakness, the scale of condemnation softened by henry kissinger, by amnesty international, by the pool pool room francis, when they are a thing which slight blue differs the ukrainian narrative, again, a molded by the United States and a United Kingdom. The level of the scale of condemnation was out. This is why even in extreme danger, this current political atmosphere in the west, unfortunately does not allow independent voices and you know, too full of voices in the continental europe. To Say Something that would come predicts the political purposes of the u. S. U k, and the ukranian party. And yet russia still pursuing as some modest attempts at trying to if not many, then find some Common International ground. Im talking about the recent visit by team from the International Atomic Energy Agency to these inquiries. Yeah. Power stations, something that can cause this fleet among the russian analysts. Some of them suggested that it was a worthwhile thing to do, you know, opening, leaving a door open to some sort of an international oversight. Others argue that it was a reckless move on to part of the russians because it essentially invited a ukrainian it to storm the station once again and sort of sad the ukrainian demons. I wonder where, where do you stand on this . Do you think it makes sense to try to engage International Organizations in this case . Well, i think yes, because i a, which is or grading under the auspices of the United Nations is not a western organization as a global. I am nuclear and there is widespread. Well beyond the west and russia is working with the whole world on this matter with the International Community, which is wider than the collective west. Why is that . That International Community is also susceptible to western influence . And if you remember a couple of years ago, russia already attempted to involve a Specialized International organization in inspections and awards. And im talking about the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons. And it went to syria and produced very politicized. If not consciously misleading report about what actually happened them, their own staff later leaked information about how it was manipulated. Again, im repeating the same question, dont you think that the same thing could happen again that i think are some of the problem of them. So the secretary of International Organizations on the west and the disproportionate western influence in the secret there does exist, especially in the u. M. Secretariat of their innumerable examples. So that boss, we dont have a different us. Yeah. We dont have a different i a yeah. These are the institutions that where else to work with for the sake of International Security and nicholas and i think the, the visit matters are several members of this delegation is still on site. And that if i had a grocer, the director of the, a sad that he calls that would be a permanent mission, which russia full of supports. And look with the arrival and presence of the i, a delegations, the ukranian selling have disappeared. They have thought right . And, and brushing is interested on now. Yes or no, but russia, if you, so, is interested in security. Russia is interested in, you know, presentation of this Nuclear Power station and continuation of its performance in a safe way. And working with the i. E, you know, the report that i a is. Busy supposed to deliver in the Un Security Council several days from now if im not mistaken. On september 6, i could be extremely important in this regard and could draw a international additional and create an International Pressure beyond the west from the non western world. The once you grain, you know, to stop for bearing the stage for a new new blue design. I guess we will have to wait and see. I hope youre right. But for the time being mature, you have to take a very short break. Well be back in just a few seconds. They can. Ah hi. Ah, ah. What weve got to do is identify the threats that we have. Its crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic. Development only personally, im going to resist. I dont see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk with. Mm welcome back to well, the point that metrics was look, Deputy Director at the center for comprehensive european and international studies. The Higher School of economics in moscow, mitre, i heard you say, recently had one of their russian political shows that in the final months of the soviet union, the United States under the george bush Senior Administration, was very concerned about the state of russias nuclear industry. And they in fact invested a lot in safeguarding and nuclear materials, nuclear rockets, et cetera, to make sure, and they do that not only for themselves to successfully, there was a selfish interest, but they did it also for the wider humanity. What do you think the buyer and Administration Stands on the, on the threat of nuclear, non proliferation, both the military sense and the in a sense of, of using safe use of Civil Nuclear technology. Im asking not about public statements, not about their the rhetoric, but whats you sense of actually, how concerned are americans about what is happening in the british . Yeah. Well, i think the, the collapse of the soviet union play the girl negative role in responsibility. The u. S. Foreign policy because this responsibility drastically refused the u. S. Believe them the started to believe more. I in their own mis, they invented this idea of the us victory in the cold war of the history of the unit polar moment and so on, so forth. And the Senior Administration behaved with a greater element over responsibility. This is why of course they wanted to weaken the soviet union, but theyre bugs the. His secretary of state baker, National Security advisor, school growth. They didnt want to collapse. I didnt realize that you know, my way so that it does not con damage to everybody else precisely because they didnt want an uncontrolled proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. And when the. Busy soviet union still collapsed because of fuel of domestic reasons. They immediately made an effort to secure the. Busy of Nuclear Weapons and United States basically was the end of the highest re collection of soviet Nuclear Weapons for all new graham bills and cars into russia under the centralized and safe control. Do you think the decision right now . If they could turn back the time, do you think they would have made an opposite decision . Well i, its hard to say of course, but what im trying to say that i know the administration was witnessing still the final stages, but it was still the cold war. Ah, whereas, and this is why it became much more responsibly. It generally wanted to avoid a new good x of the year. Thing is that they were scared and they really scared them rational. And how do you think the, the bite in administration is scaring them out by the fall out from the current prices . Because im, i mean, we all can see that whatever you know, that public rhetoric is the fall out from the ukraine on Energy Prices on domestic, Public Attitudes on inflation, et cetera, is humongous. They could not be any more isolated from the effects of their foreign policy. Does it keep home already . Well, i think the administration unfortunately is small, scared enough. Of course, the scale and depth of american participation in the Ukrainian Military conflicts does create the conditions for the so called horizontal escalation, which is the direct military clash between russia may though and prosper in the United States. For all the last 6 months, the United States has been constantly crossing the red lines and kind of pushing the red lines, moving the red line forward and forward with the supply will be increasingly heavier weapons where the supplies of intelligence information with actually preparing and supervising over the ukranian military operations, with the approval of the Ukrainian Military strikes on the russian data, such as try near the United States is part of this debate in this conflict in a very be a scale. This scale is growing and this is dangerous. The United States is political and christy responsibility for the consequences and for the, for the results of the war in since ukraine is unable to show any success such as the current offensive, which is failing, you know, what the United States is supposed to do, right . What can tonight in states do on the one hand United States can accept the truth, that it is impossible to defeat profit. Theyve all been military conflicts and allowed diplomacy to worry about this is acceptable for them yet because of their state, the purpose of defeating and weakening russia or the other option is actually broke of the 3rd world war, which is the wallet to increase the further wall of the different grease of the military assistance or through your grain, or even open participation of ne though i give this operation, this is a dad law for the United States. And this really creates the stage for escalation. Now me to as important as these up a regional plan, its not the only and you play facility in ukraine. I think there are 3 more stations. And even if i win the intervention of the i a, the situation in separation miraculously comes down. Do you think a threat of Nuclear Terrorism or just nuclear blackmail would receive, and by the way, do you think that the americans with that level of control and supervision of the ukrainians that you mentioned . Do you think they have any qualms about the use of Nuclear Facilities for your political purposes . I think that unless the United States i United Kingdom and of or is the key when the government drops, the idea of pushing russia out. The Nuclear Danger will remain. Because it is absolutely great. It is Crystal Clear that it is i what do you think they mean by pushing russia out . Rush, 6 huge country away. Where north could it couldnt be push the you can and youre going to put it on the, on the moon. So how, you know, the boy, you know, president still ask you of your brain, your state, you will continue to fight unless you read takes all the Ukrainian Land with the mind to mind to run orders. Americans are apparently and openly grooving disperse, right . I am, it is absolutely clear that it is impossible to drive russia out through traditional military needs. This is why they turn to Nuclear Terrorism and the threat of Nuclear Terrorism as a mean, you know, to try to push russia out in this way. This is why i think the danger will remain unless they change the political purpose. Oh, there. Oh, there pools, you know, i try to fall in political discussions, both in russia and in the west, and its clear that both sides, im beautiful, this sense of righteousness, but at least the russian analysts. And trying to understand the rationale of van. I mean, they recognize the enemy, but they are trying to understand what is it, you know, how decisions are being arrived at and what is moving down, what is the objectives . Whereas in the west, everything starts and ends with pollutants and rushes the morning nature, theres very little analysis, almost none of it. And its increasingly taking on the wives of some sort of a holy war of a crusade g thing. We are still dealing with rational opponent, people who make decisions in washington. Are they rational in the traditional sense of rationality . Well, i think there are quite many smart analysts and scholars in the United States who are getting rational, right. They are predominantly realists. People like john for steven wall, henry kissinger, i and many others. But unfortunately they are not the ones who dr. American foreign policy. You are absolutely right. The u. S. Foreign policy is dominated by a liberal and neoconservative hawks who dry to perform the whole conflict as a struggle between good and evil democracy and the focus and they deem allies russia. They tried to prove that russia is the source of evil. I am, you know, this makes it impossible to, to make a settlement, you know, because of the right. Absolutely. Then it is of the exit national conflict. Them this through the United States in a bad luck. Because if they dont win this fight between the good and evil additional way they will have to escalate. Thats what kissinger is constantly talking about. Thats very well speaking about deadlock in quite a literal sense. Prison, biting that out. They on a d. A said that donald trump and the mag and republicans represent a form of extreme extreme isnt that threatens the very foundation of the american republic, given how badly the democrats i doing in the polls, given the recent search as at tramps a state. And given the mid term elections coming up, do you think trump has reasons to be concerned about his freedom or even his safety . Well, i think that the persecution of donald trump is absolutely true, and the democrats wants to put him in jail, and they will try all the means, you know, to remove him from active participation. All of x m, ultimately moving into jail. The raid in model lago was justin recent manifestation of that and yes, the f b, i has become bidens eye and democrats kind of personal, gustavo, you know, the repression mechanism. I think the, you know, despite the cotton politics of the general situation in the United States is very dangerous because i havent seen, i havent witnessed that kind of intensity of political struggle, that kind of enmity between democrats and republicans. So thats kind of between progressives and conservatives in the United States, since my, since the 18 fiftys and sixtys since the time which result of into the civil war in the United States. And then in the 19th century, i think that the United States is in the stage of political civil war right now. And it is not exclude us at a certain stage, this political civil war could turn into full fledged civil war. Well, i agree with you and i want to know that i think the level of support that trump i enjoy right now. Not only in numerical sense, i think the intensity and sort of the, the ferocity all my stuff. They are the sentiment within the republican base. It is not to be compared to what they used to exist back in 2016. Then at that time these people were still sort of believing in, in the american democracy in the american institutions. Now, it is life or death for them, not only in a political sense, but also in quite the literal sense. So it is indeed quite dangerous. If there is a major unrest in the United States, do you think washingtons attention from our western border will be diverted or do thing on the country, the americans will sort of try to the anti . Well 1st you are absolutely right about the crisis. So trust towards american institutions towards the rule of law or of course the b i bullies and so on and so forth and the leg to draw stance. Diffusions is a very powerful indicator of the, of the crisis. Actually, this is how soviet union collapsed, right . Of course, the people do not believe did not process the soviet institutions as the system as a whole. And now there is a deficit of process towards the system itself in the united likely or deficit of trust. There is an active mistrust. There is in believe that they will be and then the election them both will be stolen again. Absolutely. Right. Of course about 60 percent of republicans wants donald trump to be their candidate. And the next president ial election to support in the Republican Party is greater than is the support of jo by them in the democratic party. Right. But still, the by the administration has come back in the us and paralyzing if youre a big proportion of american people. So on the rest is possible, you know, if youre here or you know, it will depend on the scale of, on the rest of the scale of civil war in the United States. If the scale is substantial but still manageable, even United States does not collapse as a state and the country, then the course of course this will be dangerous or worse. Do more political upheaval exists in american domestic politics. The less responsible is therefore in the, in the more pro, are they for some sort of escalation and irresponsible behavior by the United States classes . Well then we will also have to think about that consequences for the world about their Nuclear Weapons, you know about the milligram basis all over the world i so on and so forth. So i will, brother, as you know, as a restriction, i would rather think about the negative security consequences of their political. Yeah, well we will definitely not rejoice that somebody else a damage and harm need to. We have to leave it there. Thank you very much for your time today. As usual, its great pleasure talking to you. My pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you for watching hope to see you again on the world. Ah with mm ah ah ah. Well, oh oh oh. Oh i ah ah, in with business and you will clean them a b e r w that was chosen yeah, americans great you. When you wrote it, you just got to really just such an article and i was hearing it for you was just such a short. It was nice your heart of the different student info with you throw in the probably and youre still with us. We are both in the study she was on the voice of choice thought it was for me to, to one of our parents to which you, which no longer interested in new students from up to push teachers to their mom. Because theres no way to possible. Do school college, i dont know whos got to know for the dont know as much of a do use for us to play in finances come with ah, special mission with the International Atomic Energy Agency. Hes basically the way that hes being shown, the sort of extensive damage thats been dealt to the facility and the stories that shape the weak r t joint experts from the Un Nuclear Watchdog whos been inspecting the bottle itself but rose yet power plants with the facility coming under intensive attacks by you reinforces, according to the local authority with leader of the soviet union, Mikhail Gorbachev died this week at the
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