american government. we'll talk about these notorious c m. use with dina. got his felt the wife had cmu prisoner, marty, got his felt marty served some of his time in the same communications management unit as victor boot and with famed drone whistleblower daniel hale. why is marty in prison? why does the u. s. government view him as a dangerous prisoner? it's because he initiated a computer denial of service attack on a hospital in boston after the hospital had forcibly taken a sick young girl from her parents. and falsely accused them of abuse. the government to poxy is incredible. here, dana, welcome to the show. hey, john, good to see you. thank you for having me. good to see you, dana dana, i've known you for a long time and we've talked about marty's case many, many times, even given my familiarity with his case. i'm just still as shocked now as i was when i 1st learned that marty was in a c. m. u and i'm baffled over the bureau of prisons decision to try and silence him and people like him. marty was just recently transferred from the c, m. u in marion back to the countries other c. m. u in terra haute, indiana. that's the prison that also houses the federal death row. i want to begin by having you described to our viewers what daily life is like for marty in a c, m, u i c m u is different from the rest of the bureau of prisons. in that it linux his ability to speak with attorneys and what it's like right now, as attorneys can't even get legal calls with him. now a significantly delayed he can't get so many phone calls. it's usually to 15 minute call that week. i think a lot of it is just keeping them in a small unit is about 70 people in the larger jail with the theme and he's a jailhouse lawyer. so i think he's busy with the time. right. i can certainly understand the need for a cmu for let's say terrorists, you want one terrorist to be on the phone, coordinating other terrorist attacks with, you know, other terrorists, but as often as not that's not who's in the c amuse. many of the prisoners are people like marty or drug whistleblower daniel hale or victor boot. it's meant as yet an additional layer of punishment for people whom the government just doesn't like. marty has fought his placement in a cmu for years. tell us about that struggle and how it's played out so far. in your introduction, you've talked about justina case and it was just a protest against bad conditions. there was a rope life on the line and he in a way that didn't harm any patients that the jury found. i was able to return her to her family after about 13 months of horrible treatment that would qualify as torture under the. ready when convention, if you i, the thing in the hospital, boston, childrens hospital is part of the harvard network. it receives the most federal funding of any pediatric teaching hospital. and so when you anger harvard in boston, i think marty is a senior systems engineer. he's never had any trouble with the law. and then to put him in a c, m. u when they're like real bad people in regular jails, is that like crazy? there has to be a designation from i think i forget the some kind of them director in the b o. p has to sign off on it. they don't give any reasons and you can challenge it a lot with with complaints and it doesn't really go anywhere. why a p and c m u. that's an excellent question. this is just guessing they don't. they don't tell you, but marty has not has not let their obese and their mis treatment of prisoners and disrespect for the lock go and noticed. he's published and scathing articles in the intercept r t. rub state and a number of others. i think that this is a way to violence people. i think that you see a lot of politically sensitive cases like daniel hale and schafer, cox than dog reynolds. this is the cmu is, is like a blast site is where the government will put people that they want to silence and it's actually crazy that it even exist. you would think biden would have wanted to do right by the american citizen reno after the rally. hard again, truck, but trump actually put in the 1st step act. and now the 1st step act is not being honored, is not being respected. marty. okay. yeah, no, i'm agreeing with you. the 1st step back hasn't been respected. we've not seen reforms coming out of the biden administration, and i'll tell you something else that just happened. it happened in the, in the very 1st week of december. and that is the warden of the women's prison at dublin. california was convicted on 13 different counts of, of raping female prisoners. well that's someone who's too dangerous to live among the public. if someone is too dangerous to be on the street, he's not in a c, m. u. he's perfectly free to walk around his prison and go outside and exercise and talk to the media and talk to his lawyers and talk to his family and do anything he wants. so really, i think your point is, is well taken. if they want to silence you, if they want to punish you, if they want to make your time in prison, more difficult because they have what you did or who you are. that's when they put you in a c. m, you? yeah, i wanted to mention that marty's judge judge, nathaniel horton is, is tied in with the adoption agency that would work on getting just donated into another family home. i got their financial ties from the judge to the case. and even when he was asked or accused, he still wouldn't do it. so there's definitely animosity between the judge towards marty. i know you're absolutely right and we've spoken about this, the number of times going through the criminal justice system up close has been one of the biggest rude awakening that you can imagine in terms of, you know, a lot of things turn out to just be cardboard and there's nothing behind in terms of you know, you go to groups and look, there is an legal system. and you say like here's the case, am i right? or am i wrong? and it just turns out the being right doesn't matter. the way that i found the things work are with social pressure and with media attention, it is way more powerful than with a. ready lot going to do for you and we see that i think many, many times it's been a hard pill to swallow. but a date when i was in prison after i blew the whistle on the torture program, i was placed in something called a modified c, a c m u. this was after i wrote an open letter that was picked up by almost every media outlet in the united states. i later did a freedom of information act request on myself with a bureau of prisons and in return i received a document that the prison warden had sent to all jail staff the week before i arrived in very large letters. it said caution. inmate has access to the media. as a result of all my ridiculous, right? all my phone calls were monitored as they took place. my incoming and outgoing emails were monitored and were subject to a 5 day delay. and even my incoming and outgoing mail was opened and photocopied before either being given to me or being sent out. what marty and victor boot, and daniel hale and others are going through is even worse than that. tell us about the limits of contact that marty has and what he's done to hold the bureau of prisons accountable for its actions. yeah, great question. sorry to hear that that happened to you that is afraid by the end of the cmu taking place outside of this the those are all things that sound familiar. i mean marty's attorney literally can't reach him. they will. the bureau will not allow him to have attorney calls. they say, unless there's an impending court deadline, but it's none of their business. if a lawyer and i want to speak about the case and next steps regardless ending that immediate deadline. there's other people like donald rental who doesn't get through to congressman. she was at marty as well to media. it's just blocked. everything like you said is calls i listen to in real time. all mail is saved. there's, you know, when you go into general, you don't lose your right. that's right. and it seems like you do. unfortunately it's, it's tough, you know, in september 2021 r t r t wrote an article about him. and i shared clip the media call, i have it in, in a q, marty, of trying to conspire to violated a 3rd party or which means i guess the 3rd party can't be involved actually with this. and you can have a 3rd party on the call. so it can only be me and him, it can't be 2 people and him and they ended up taking away his phone and his email from september 2021 to august 2020, you know, and they had him in solitary confinement for a lot of the 1st few months it's, it's, it's like it's just one of those things like, you know, obviously we're happy that he's taking action with foreign prisoners. but like, what about the people at home like weird cancer? we're getting the thing thing that the penal colonies are doing. i hate to say it, but it's it's just a really scary situation and seen it feel so unfair and i feel very disenfranchised . you know, just as an aside, dana after victor boot was, was sent back to russia and brittany griner was brought back to the united states. there were articles in the u. s. press talking about the so called penal colony that, that britney griner had been sent to. and they were saying, oh my god, it's so terrible they make her work for almost nothing. and the food is terrible and there's no medical care. and i wrote an article, i dashed it off, and i said, clearly none of these american journalists have ever seen me inside of an american prison. because what they're describing is an american prison. we have no right to complain about prisons anywhere else when ours don't even meet the most basic level of human rights. that's just meet people and people and go out past black office should not trust and i can agree with you more or throw the stones fix or glass. how 1st? yes, exactly. do you know? yes, spoken to to countless attorneys activists elected officials. has anybody been able to explain to you how the bureau of prisons has gotten away with using these c m use as a weapon to silence? how high profile prisoners? how is the b o. p. able to use these units so unethically? without there being any fall out. yeah, that's a great question. i mean there's been a number of hearing in front of congress by the director of the b o. p. go they make a show of it. they do a little recording that they can put online. but the b p 's played by controversy just horrible thing after horrible thing and nothing ever really seems to change. i don't know if it, that i, i, it's hard to explain. i mean, this is something i've been re watching the congressional hearings on the troubled teen industry, which is a pro not necessarily affiliated, but there are programs across the country that try to help which tough love trouble views. so it's like right treatment facilities like that. and that, and one of the themes, the head of the g, a o, the government accountability office, gregory, one of the congress, people asked them like, why are these people in jail like for what they're doing as i don't know. and i think it ties back to what we were saying before and that like it's the wild west out here like rules laws. it just doesn't matter like and you any would in no way. you really wouldn't know it until you've gone through it. i do not think that the media that just your, your everyday experience with let you know, you know, when i feed people saying like you have your day in court as in like that's, that's enough to prove whether you're innocent or guilty. it's like, oh my god, that is the most simplified version when. ready first graders, if it's so different than you think it is it right and wrong becomes meaningless. it becomes what effective and what's not. yes, we are speaking with dana, god is spelled about conditions inside the u. s. bureau of prisons, notorious communications management units. we're going to take a short break and come right back with more so stay tune ah ah. 2 ah, i've actually found safety in the braces. naziism is a juice, all of a sudden you're placed in a position where i can defend myself. now, i don't have to be afraid anymore. on one hand, i'm terrifying that they're going to find that i'm jewish. but on the other, i think it's so far away. i distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and cursing john, they're going to hurt. one guy hunched, me. hi my ear and i heard somebody show now in the rest. and the punch was just started flying and somebody shouted out, died, you boy died. and at that point i knew they're stuck back. remember i had an indian doctor. they came in and looked and said, there's no medical reason why you're, you should be alive. you to find something to believe. john story is a story of ho story, victory, and whatever i can do to help him i what you ah, the 1st time in history, an entire country's culture has been cancelled. the very modern weapon cancel, culture. really desperate. wonderful. lucille mala lee thought it was william frog here, just misleading the one who put glue. the phrase now particularly refers to counseling russian culture. yet no secret of see what was the zip code where your mouth booked . sure, which will be your. that is check with zillow, that the damage to leverage to london, e demarie. what rushes created over the past 1500 years. there's no question. harshly condemned, reviled and rejected. his sort of like a funny, at the middle of bramble, there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. thank you said a little sure. the list, joining total condemnation grows daily and now enclosed da staff skate to cascade shostakovich. i need to hear a little scoop left, but yes, you can see that with the time will you do obama lee? you're not going to that a little bit more. ah . 2 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. aku we're speaking with dana. god has failed. the wife of whistleblower . marty. god is spelled about conditions inside the notorious communications management unit at the u. s. penitentiary in marion illinois. this is the prison where russian prisoner, victor boot was held for years. dana's has been, marty also was incarcerated there and was recently moved to an even worse prison at terra haute, indiana dana, thanks again for being us. oh john, i meant to tell you that's a beautiful news that you have. thank you. i rather like it. i think they've done a great job here. yeah, thank you. yeah, dana, i know how hard it is for prisoners inside a c. m. u to communicate with one another. and when i've communicated with marty, i've always been very careful not to say tell daniel hale that i said hello or tell somebody else that i said hello. has marty said anything to you over the last year or so about victor? boot and his conditions inside the marion cmu. yeah. marty, have spoken about victor boot, he hasn't reference can by name. but when he's the phrase figuration. theater was pretty quick. things pick up on brittany griner. steph. yeah. actually at the time that marty was telling me about this, when they were considering doing the prisoner swap, marty mentioned that victor had a really bad rash on his body and also a problem with his eye. and he was being denied medical care. and marty was wondering if that was biden's way of putting pressure on the situation to force a swap. i. i think eventually it is rash cleared up. i'm actually not totally there, but i do remember the largest after me a couple of months ago. i've heard from friends who have served times. i'm sorry, go right ahead please. no, i brought that to the attention of numerous media people, but nobody oh that's, that's a story in and of itself. that here in the u. s. mode that happens all the time. yeah, that's stuff like that. friends of mine who have served time in see amuse, say that the cells are very, very small. 2 by 3 meters. everything is made of either concrete or steel, including the bed. the beds are made of concrete, and the prisoners are kept there either $23.00 or 24 hours a day, a couple times a week. they are allowed to exercise for one hour, essentially just walking in circles in a cage that happens to be outside. they're allowed one or 2 short showers a week all while a guard is watching them. and marty has a terrible experience with that. they're rarely allowed to speak to loved ones and attorneys. tell us about all that. how often can you speak with marty and have you actually seen him since he was incarcerated? i'll start with that last question. the last time i saw marty was january 2019 today at the sentencing. and after that, shortly after that, he was transferred to the shoe, which is stands for and segregated housing unit just pregnancy for cherry mc. see new york for a couple of months. and then he went to the cmu and the care home in terra haute, indiana, and then 2, u. s. p. marion marion illinois. back out to herd indiana. i have not seen him to just call no visit and before that i had seen him for 5 days during his trial and i would go up to new york to visit them at m. c. c, new york. on the week a lot of the work, i don't know if you recognize names, but a lot of these are profile jails. help they help unit bomber the sci terre haute. usually there's always yeah, a lot of the conditions that you described just now. definitely sound like the like the segregated housing unit like solitary at the sci terra ho. you know, not only that, but the heaters and if they don't have proper ventilation during the summer, they call it the burrito cooker because he can travel breed on the floor and cook. and it's so punitive it's, it's so terrible and not to mention the bugs and wrote in the infestation. and perhaps most importantly, the water, the water is non suitable or rough. the toilet like it was the things like, it's not stuff that you should be doing. and they put him there for now long just the amount of time that he spent in solitary and so concerning, you know, like in for me why one of one of the things that really finally landed on me in the troubled teen industry, that it's not how bad it is, is when we stop, we watch the video call to watching the kids and they describe one of the fathers described being helped a little room with just a bucket and just scraping things into the walls. and for me, solitary has always been really scary. and that way, like one of my biggest fears and have to like face to face with knowing someone, the parents can't stop caring about that. it is really scary, especially when it's for months at a time and, and especially for helping a girl like just being appellate for penalty was based on the penalty was based on the amount that they had to pay to have a i like that mine. right. so the whole thing is just so frustrating and the amount of people that this is happening to is, is unbelievable. it makes me feel like, like, should i stay like, should i do i stay in fight or do i just leave the country because it's not worth it anymore. right. and i think everybody after that question for themselves, but i can't believe we're treating people like this. thank you to our guest, dana, god is spelled and the best of luck to her husband. marty got his self and thank you to our viewers for joining us today. try to keep in mind that we all have a role to play in situations like this. the true measure of our own character is how we treat the poor. the disavowed the accused, the incarcerated and the condemned. were all implicated when we allow other people to be mistreated. let's make sure that our friends and families all understand that . i'm john kerry. aku, thanks for joining us for another edition of the whistleblowers. the next time. ah. 2 2 2 2 ah, what are you crazy? yes. board took a lot. i lost lots of my friends. but i was broke and i wasn't able to save anyone. i get nothing that i met wilson 2030. which really in my wake and make me talking to willy or for ami a i'm happy that through i'm you find these really little so you can and that's the la hey become my new friend. the one was love gonna die or i was he is. i would stay alive. it was they next to me. if i'm not crazy enough. i'm not gonna make it. lou needs to come to the russian state. little narrative. i've stayed on the most landscape divest. i was not signed up for a week within the 55 when. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else calls with we will ban in the european union, the kremlin community up machine. the state aren't russia today, and school ortiz spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all brand on you to a question. did you think it was with the joggers archipelago told her that she goes to san diego garcia, the largest island in the archipelago is now the location of a very large u. s. military base. you could go and met div our i to the u. s. government to make a military base and just deported all of the juggle send people from their country . so they called return back on the island. never, never, but we are fighting. that's why i'm fact we'll fighting for the right. so i, we do not consider that the right to self determination actually applies to the trickle. since i don't the question know, self determination of the legal advice we've received is actually the chic options . we're not at all, not a people. for me, it's time to move on and see what we can do. a full the child said community to return back home. there is no support from the nomination. i commission, i forget united michel, don't care about chug restaurant people. ah, it's late of sense the ship of russian media. the targets are the parent company with another round of sanctions ordering a free of the company's assets in europe. the un condemns the terror attack on russia's humanitarian offices in the central african republic, which left the head of the mission seriously wounded. under the sources claim, us manufactured and supplied drone through used by ukraine in recent strikes on russian surgery. despite washington saying that u. s. weapons have not been used.