House in kyoto. Hes an associate professor at t o university. In montreal, we have matthew aaron. He is a senior fellow at the American University of moscow and director of the Rising Tide Foundation of canada. And here in moscow we have appeared in menu, well to among t is electorate. Leon university. Quite gentleman, comstock rolls and effect. That means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated pasco, let me go to you and kill to it, because you are staying up late. I usually say you got up early, youre staying up late to do this program. You know, its spelt and burke is a very interesting creature to observe. Hes obviously just a mouth piece for the alliance, probably on speed dial to washington. But he does come out with these things that do. We should Pay Attention to that there that ukraine is going to have to make some compromises. This is a, is, this is a way, an offer ramp for nato, as it approaches its 75th anniversary, with not much to be proud of. Us go as well. I would hope that natal fine and he understands that an offer on these needed now that it has seemed basically all of this equipment destroyed by russia in ukraine on the ukrainians. Little by little losing the ability to fight the support because theyre running out of man, right . With out external intervention in the form of boots on the ground, which actually differential the british are now working on. But without that, there is just no realistic scenario anymore. Even to drag out the war, i mean, in europe the all the talk is that because as told me, but even that is a lot, right. Its more of a stall me. Russia is now is no really and the advantage and can push on. So it seems to me that realism seeps through and nato understands that an offer of these needed. And this is the 1st kind of signs may be that they are willing to consider it. Well matthew would be the, the, the, the argument that were hearing now is that, and its been for, i guess now for the last 6 months, more aid is necessary to give the ukrainians a better advantage at the negotiating table. But matthew, if you think about it, the more money is sent ukraine and material, the less territory they control is what you can get smaller and smaller with more and more money being. So tat, they see this is their causality issue here. Matthew, its difficult to say what they can or cannot see. I have to admit when were dealing with these types of technic crowds or so removed from a battlefield or any plane of reality and are so used to being conditioned by game theory, models and think tanks without any attachment to reality. So when they come up with an assessment its oh, is a little strange. Try to get into their shoes by curious. We but i think youre, youre correct. There has been embarrassing over 2 years, lack of any type of progress and, and just the reverse has happened. The more money is pouring into the, the, the, the culture in the less results has tended to be the outcome. And even the i master said, has had to make demonstrations that the data cannot be fledged out that much or, or any more. Its very difficult as much time as normally fudge of data and has demonstrated that, unlike the forecast that russia would be destroyed by this time much earlier on, they were supposed to be economically destroyed. The im asking you for recent reports has had to admit that they are now the, the bypass of germany as far as becoming the, the worlds 5th largest economy, the most powerful economy in all of europe. Theyve not, theyve only benefited in many ways by virtue of what has been done, section wise and Everything Else in the wars. Just one aspect of the failure of planning bodies technocrats. So yeah, its a while, while its difficult. I do think that there is like the previous speaker said some bending to reality currently. Well, parent manuel here in moscow. What, what, whats, whats, whats really quite curious is that, you know, we have someone like cells and birds saying that ukraine may have to compromise. They all people like felton berg, the rest of them. They always forget the other party in the complex russia. Maybe russia doesnt want to compromise, said they considered that appear in manual. Of course not. They know they should concede over budget, so they own narrative. And the narrow t for, for starting to think about a compromising is because they know the, ill go not lose more and more weve time. Russia is getting moke around and do they try to hide v strategic disaster. And this is the time where they from bill potent of you need to us to concede or to, to compromise, to, to stop for russians to advance and to try to, to save of the rest of the ukraine, about 20 or a russia us. And thats the same interest of russia wants to achieve is for object teeth, which is to update a new charges ation of ukraine. But also, but you, your queen regime is not this correct anymore to russia. So each much mole and the of the mole, we weight, the move of the result of compromise. Wed be up to a higher cost for you queen of the west. Well, you know, the passcode one of the, the, the difficult things in, in trying to understand this complex, if you look at both sides, neither the 2 sides are speaking and very different languages and then have different ways of understanding it and what, how it came about what im getting on here is that the russians always talk about their security, the europeans, and the americans talk about their so called values. Thats why were not getting anywhere else go yeah, russian has made it pretty clear what these war is about for them on the fact that on social media and in programs like these, these message has been clearly understood. It has been discussed for 2 years. The fact that that also remind wells that we know that this is about neutralizing ukraine as a threats and, and making sure that russia will be safe. Its a very different approach and this must be heard. I mean, but public media in europe, in, in the us, this is a completely different thing. Its propaganda. The propaganda is on a different level and it is still on a different level but, but we now see that the people in power actually do understand that what, what they publicly say and what, how they actually interpret russia are not necessarily the same. So this is the best chance that we have that actually, you know, the people who are responsible for the diplomats and also the military people will Start Talking things into the politicians in, in, in, in europe, telling them, look at some point we need to actually discuss with the russians, what they want because they are winning or difficult. They one old of winning ukraine is something you know, this could get much worse. We have to buy really the house calls the, you know, right. In december of 2021. Before the start of the conflict in the february, after the russians told the world, tell about the whole world what they wanted, thats exactly what they want today. Nothing has really changed. They want security, okay . They dont want, they want a neutral ukraine, and they dont want a nato moving eastward. Those are this sense still the same things. Let me move over to, to matthew here, the, the undertaker of the west pony blinking. We sent a 2, not a 2 new cycles ago was standing next to the ukranian for ministers. I ukraine will be part of nature. We havent met. Go gotten much progress here. Have we, matthew . You know . Yeah. All, all you, all that needs to happen is russian needs to be defeated and then you praise is going to become part of nato. Thats. Thats easy because obviously the 2nd and the credit is part of nato. Thats world war 3 because theres a lot of, obviously, a powerful interest itching to invoke the article 5 collective security packed. So thats not something that, that will happen directly unless you really do want it all out of Thermo Nuclear war, which i dont think that there is that in seen. So i dont think that theres a lot behind those in the mid, matthew, youre, im a, im sorry to interrupt, but youre absolutely right. The, the in lieu of saying Something Else, they dont have in lieu of Something Else or just say, and of course, you know that theres no time table. There no condition you just will be you, you will eventually will be. I mean, if i with you crazy and so i said, i would say we need to negotiate the end of this thing here because you cant trust these western partners. Im sorry, matthew, keep going. Yeah, absolutely. But then you, you have like, uh, whats the name of alexandra up of leo, the public. Who is the, the, the Land Force Commander saying that all citizens must be prepared to fight and thus implicitly die under throwing up people. Paraplegics, people who are mentally described a you got a lot of a lot of people just being thrown his ken fodder right now, and theyre doubling down and ukraine on the fact that theyre the gospel from 2 years ago, somehow still flexible. And its certainly not the reality is completely completely showing a different picture and theyre not able to conform to it. So i dont know with, with blinking why he chose to say that its just that theyre incapable of shifting away property from their narrative. Thats right. Theres only one gear, these people have only one year appear in menu. Well, what, what is interesting with, with the french proposal, im not really sure it wouldnt background really means a french soldier as nato soldiers. And is that a blog does abreast on a i think in narrative mistake as well because or oc, 20, we have to understand the context for europe and elections in europe in parliament, and are very well positioned pots youd, i could look in potty is far here read ahead of the box you of a menu item. I cool. And the popular menu item i can choose fulfill narrow teeth to, to, to push the fox is about to be on the side of you play the freedom of demo crusty, against a view to russia. And to accuse the loop in part to you to be a promoter of the russian, the objectives, son, and to be put you to agents. This is totally ridiculous and envy you can pay. You can notice a french paper doesnt suck this narrative very. They, they want to vote to more, more for nation are from so reset, taught, narrative said, or under the same time or so. And when you had a mock hole, want you to make friends relieved or of you uh, entered by supporting your queen and gets rush out to, to take advantage of in an opportunistic way of your situation. And do it to be able to lead or in competition with germany because french was always in competition, germany to lead the european project. And eric would notice about nobody in you want. Busy this to be told anything and to be led by you are a money order my co on especially to put troops on the ground. It gets russia, which when you go to twit front tire war and continue. But many experts on many tell even know its not possible, it would be a disaster. So it has to be a mistake in terms of narrative and also jump words. All right, hold on to that thought the wrong of it. We have to go to a hard break gentlemen, and after that hard break, were going to continue. Continue our discussion on ukraine, stay with us. The, the, the, [000 00 00;00] the, in the 1870s, the colonial expansion of the British Empire in the nile valley increase. The british decided to get complete control over sudan. However, the deeply religious people of that country did not want to obey 4 laws. The unceremonious intervention of british officials led peoples discontent. It spokesman was that the logins mohammed off thought the frog blamed himself the marty. The amazon, he began to gather an army against the invaders. By 1884, most of the sudanese cities were in the hands of the modern Great Britain decided to intervene directly. But the troops of ahmad gave the invaders a drubbing. In 1885. The rebels, the capital car to the feet of britain was dont only by the very end of the 19th century. After the death of ahmad, the british were able to regain their control of sudan. Unable to defeat the living body, the british took revenge on the dead one. His remains were drawn out of the mazda liam, and thrown away into the nile. Ahmad said was brought to england as a trophy. However, the victory of the modest revolt became the 1st successful action of the peoples of africa against the colonial oppression, and remained a dark stain on the reputation of the British Empire. The take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscopic isnt just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. The fixtures designed to simplify all confused who really wants a better wills, and is it just because it shows you a few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground . Can j. K itself, the gaining independence and from the form of the ivory coast remained under the Strong Influence of his foam and metropolitan pro french president. Felix, who said one year, ruled the country for 33 years, ensuring the interest to from the dead. The government dean isnt it enough . Then theres no simple new foster larry shifted upwards was douglas who saw him and the more appropriate after the death of, of a one year, a new lead to long come back. The ball came to power. And im ready to double, for example, the accuracy. Why do you know if were picking up from the input . Isnt that a lot for tiffany . To one is the one that buses into the bronze demetrius the dean. Good luck. Boeing. Enemy, a deep political crisis ensued. Walk a, the country 2nd largest city, turned into a theater of law from 130 to the other 2. 8, the rotors of mortgage. How did the dramatic events unfold . And how is block a recovering from . He is a bloody conflict. Watch on see the show seemed wrong. Just dont have to shape house because after an engagement it close the trail. When so many find themselves will support. We choose to look so Common Ground the the welcome back to across the dock were all things are considered. Im curious about your mind you were discussing. You create the hey, lets go back to pasco and in kill to i think one thing and if we look over the last 2 years of a few things, i think um, we could all agree on this as an elite warm up here. And manual was telling us about how friends people feel about it. This is an a lead ward. They, they expected rush, it would collapse instantly. You know, the sanctions would, with the ruble would become rubble and all of these type of thing. But the only thing they seem to have in common right now is that they dont know how to win because theyve lost. So their alternative is just to keep it going. Thats what theyre doing, just keep it going. Pasco, i mean, youre, youre set that there is no timeline, but there actually isnt, thats november of this year, because thats the big election in the United States. And it is to me relatively clear that full, that the democrats and to you as a trying to do is to keep it going until beyond the election. When either shall bide any saving the saddle for another 4 years. And you can like, you know, kinetic paper out, whatever it is, or donald trump wins and you can pin it on him. So they really like for the, for the americans at this point is to have to have it going for another house a year without ukraine collapsing for reputational purposes for the europeans. Its a completely different game, the or b and as, as he said, they, they, they hung themselves in their own words. And thats why we see my call trying to one up the game and even maybe go further then what, what nature would be would be willing to, to do one on their own. But this is such a risky gamble like no, that would be because it could buy this in world war 3, but also it, it, it, it backfires, you know, use as a credibility in, in europe. So that your opinions at the bottom and go from a bad place to the worst, play it out of their own miscalculations and so well put, matthew, you know, the, the, the, the adage and politics never let a crisis go to waste. I think thats exactly what your opinion leaders are thinking that would be sleep, but brussels is it. This is a catastrophe. So lets take advantage of it. Lets, lets pursue greater federal ization. Lets allow brussels to start directly taxing the end of the individual citizens of the not nation states, but brussels gets the do it. I mean, this is one of the reasons why i think theres a big competition in europe who is going to be harder on the russians. Because this is an opportunity to transform europe in a way that voters will not have no saying whatsoever. Matthew will the, the destruction of any type of legitimate democracy in europe has been a Long Time Coming and has been part partly the manifestation of the sorts of ideas we had originally seen where the century going merge out of the mind of people. I couldnt hold the colored z with his a pen, europa of fascist movement that had a variety of, of hyper fascist, like you almost shocked me. Circles around, but benito, mussolini, many, many of the most hard core you genesis with global as were all circulating around critical declared these idea of creating a United States of europe. Which ended up either adopting the outline that, that he himself, designed with beethovens 9th symphony b hoping would not be happy with that as the anthem. And ever since world war 2 ended, there has been an immediate effort to try to re purpose and, and put back into play. The churchill was a big follower of, you know, leo, emorys kid, julian, and many others were all a advocates, including the head of the british, a fascist party himself. Oswald moseley, would it be promoter of this thing . And this became increasingly a federal rely structure that would have more power as far as an unelected bureaucracy above those elected components of the nation. And elizabeth trudy was just a more recent example of this thing, advanced and forward in opposition to the actual democratic will of the people of europe who didnt want this. They would be voted, knowing it didnt, it was still forced down the throats of the irish and others. And so i think youre right in this crisis is being used to advance a more gifted tauriel up or down shift of, of this whole new world order. Again, but yeah, but if you dont fall in line like got hungry or slovakia you will pay the consequences as you are a slave underlay. And so we have the tools. Okay, very famously. Um yeah, its fairly menu. Well, i mean what, what is the, what does your get out of, of this supporting this war . I mean, i, i see no upside whatsoever. You see european a leads a band doing their own self interest, their sovereign interest. So actually we have to, to see from the point of view of for very the you are p and i, you want you to a, always to push for a federal integrate in europe before the crisis in ukraine. The europe and projects was already in a very bad situation because bab