Is criticized by law makers as be proven to downing street infamous 2020 lockdown parties, finds the serious failures and staying with ukraine. No threat of a planned invasion has ever come from any russian politician, moscows envoy to you, and is clear about attempts to escalate the security situation in the region. Those are your headlines this hour. That has a for me actually. But dont worry, my colleague, collin, great, will be here just under an hours time with a full and fresh look community with our internet, with, with, with hello and welcome to cross talk. Were all things are considered. Im global. War panic is in the air, but not in care of. Apparently, nato says its united against russia, so called aggression against ukraine. But Alliance Members act in differing even contradictory ways. Washington in london, appeared to want confrontation their allies. Not so much. Ah. To discuss these issues and more, im joined by my guess piper, kennings and in plymouth. He is editor and found her a 21st century wire dot com. And here in moscow we have maxine switch, cough he is director of the center or advanced american studies at Moscow State Institute of International Studies or a gentleman, cross talk rules and effect. That means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. Lets start off with patrick and plymouth, and i ended my introduction by saying it looks Like Washington in london are more keen on some kind of confrontation with russia over the, the point of ukraine. And Morris Johnson is im going to swoop into why europe in, you know, has a great diplomatic plan, but hes a landing about, is he just trying to avoid investigations into a lot of bad parties, or does he really actually have an idea . And then i will, well talk a little bit about bad phone calls, patrick, get your take on this pinch fever they were hearing the boys. Johnson was absent without leave on this issue for weeks with so called party gate. Meanwhile, the sort of the war effort in the u. K. Press and through all the various ministers was going on under the surface. So its very bizarre situation to say the least. Theyre sort of late to the party and politically anyway, the u. K, but theyre very active, of course of i and nato behind the scenes. So look at the bottom line here is, this is one of the biggest ever sort of virtual build ups to war in history. I mean, this is a propaganda operation. The likes, which has never been undertaken in modern times. And we, weve seen various types of prop, again, with the war on terror, but not with sort of a conventional war warfare or with a sort of, you know, made to major powers. Going out to this level. So this is like new territory. So the question is, what is the objective here for the west and theres a number of major pieces on the table. Obviously theres geopolitically, you know, the u. S. Is wanting to renegotiate just about every sort of major agreement this left over from the cold war era, from various missile agreements that is backed out of, but also sort of, you know, defensive arrangements. Reciprocal arrangements that work a set up by the cold war. Russia is very much wanting to abide by those treaties. Again, we always have recognize in the last 3 years, at russias acting as a normative power. Theyre very predictable. You know, the u. S. Is acting like in a rational state, actor nato is just taken on a completely different take there become an ideological organization. Now, you know, theyre no longer a defense. Theyre much more than just a defense, a lot of ideological, lets spread freedom and democracy. This is the new mission of nato. So this is a total break. So its understandable why russia cant negotiate with these these parties because its very difficult to know where theyre coming from, especially the United States. But we can go into that in a bit. Ok, lets see, lets talk about bad telephone calls. It looks like the president of ukraine zalinski kind of dropped the ball. Hes not playing his role in the script here. And as i pointed out of my introduction, you know, you have, you know, western countries, you know, like United States like the u. K, pulling out their dependence, you know, from embassies and all that. And then he actually called the church, at least for a short time. He did say, you know what, all this panic about, im here, i am president , id see whats going on. This is an over reaction, and paraphrasing of course, is in trouble. I mean, you dont, you dont tell the president nodded states your patron, that hes wrong. You dont say that to the u. K. Another one of your friends, i would think hes on very, very soft ground right now. Your take on whats going on between the u. S. And can you bring, will, you know, as they say, you become responsible for forever, for whoever youve tamed. So i think the use lensky is, is in, and in generally the, this, my don revolution in ukraine has been a poster child for, for democracy. Whatever a u. S. Was thinking of back in 2014 when they were supporting their qu. But i think whats interesting that the lensky is becoming a dark cardinal for american domestic politics. As you know, President Trump was each one of the telephone conversation with him. President biden was already in trouble over his some dealing scene ukraine. And then it was in the last, he was still an office. Now the republicans are threatening to impeach President Biden when in, if they take over the congress in november of this coming year. So, you know, even though i saw that name tag going around this money, because lensky was, hes becoming kind of a big, big pain in the neck for, for the u. S. Domestic. But in seriousness, i think the situation is very bizarre indeed. Because for the what prompted zelinski to talk in public initially was of the, i dont know whether was asleep on the tongue or button me spoke. Were going to spill the beans on the quote unquote modern incursion, a brushing to ukraine, that what the Administration Biden said, go and fight over. That in itself was quite an interesting remark. But lensky initially was talking about there are no minor incursions. Theres on the big invasions that we have to care about, and then, you know, biden kind of turns the tables. This will actually, i am talking about the big invasion and he goes, what do you talking mode . We dont really see an invasion come. So i do think its did that the situation is kind of a self inflicted panic and wound, but we should have perhaps seen it coming because this narrative on what may come next and what type of invasion may come have been, you know, going around from different angles and its easy for the 2 president s in the biden and zaleski to kind of sleep on their own banana. Yeah, its interesting, patrick, i mean, who would have thought a comment from a common crane would be in the cross. Theres some 2 president s when telephone couples we went from, you know, was a perfect telephone call to. It was a bad telephone call. The landscape patrick over the last few months. I can remember when it was going to have a meeting with the americans and he was on twitter. We need to be in a tow now. Meet on, and now hes beginning to realize the cost of getting into nato is his head. Okay. And a good and maybe chunks of his country. I mean, hes the hall guy and all this. I think hes begun to finally realize that, okay, we dont know what kind of control he has over as intelligence agencies or the military. Patrick, your answer survey lover of illustrated a good point to this to this effect in his response to anthony blankets, white paper and natos white paper. Its good to the passing papers around by the way, right now thats better rather not to be public. Missiles and bombs, but again, i said, look, you cant, you cant guarantee that the Ukrainian Military is a unified organization. In other words, there are paramilitary units, or you know, far right paramilitary units, which arent under the direct control all the time of one single unified apparatus. So if you look at, when you ramp up tensions and you have a potential for either a false flag or an image, 17 style event or the gulf of tonkin type, a miscommunication that might be intentional, in fact. But anyway, that aside, its very dangerous. A situation where youre heightening tensions like this and u. S. Is definitely putting pressure on Ukrainian Government on zelinski. Many people will say that the ukraine government is captured already by the western sphere of influence by the United States. In this interesting, when you listen to tony blinking is very shaky by the way, very nervous. When he listen to his speech as press concert tonight, hes really only concerned with 2 things. One of them is a stockpile or stocks of weapons. The u. S. Is unloading all of their old last years clothes out stock on the ukraine, and then stockpiles of energy or Energy Energy supplies. And its funny that these threatening the rest is saying, rushes threatening europe with the weapon ice. If russia weaponized is it gas, and l have a dramatic effect on the european consumer and so forth. Theres nobody doing more to shut down in train to pipeline than the United States and britain. Ok. So, i mean, you cant take us seriously in diplomacy when theyre making 2 different statements. Basically in the same speech, i mean, its totally inconsistent, like the level of duplicity is just off the charts. So its a, i can see it being very frustrating for a survey, live ra, russian, Diplomatic Team to have any kind of meaningful negotiations or to, to know that youre going into negotiations. And the other parties already basically choosing of acting in bad faith before you even come to the table. So basically this diplomacy is finished at that point and what you have is this kind of media award this bizarre parallel universe. Its been constructed by the u. S. Media theyve been brought on the tele click go now in the u. S. Media doing the rounds, the mayor of kiev, and theyre saying vitality, are you going to physically stand up and fight those russians when they come to sac . Yeah, i mean, the idea that russia is going to march in sac, he is just fantasy, but this is what passes for like legitimate political discourse. Right now in the United States. I mean, is really in a crazy situation. Its, its come to right now. You know, mess it was about to think about that week 10 days ago that the russians maybe planning some kind of who in change of government. Yeah. But you know, if you really think about it, i mean, maybe thats exactly what the u. S. Department in the, in the brits are thinking themselves because they get it in 2014. They might do it again and then blame someone else. I mean, i wouldnt let it pass. These people go ahead man. Well obviously its hard to to think rationally. When you have this irrational argument on the other side, i think whats 140, perhaps east of the likely next round of talk, see russia to continue this talks is going to evolve around something that foreign minister leverage mentioned in, again response to white papers. When you know, basically the state Department Said that theyre not going to discuss the future of need to when you cranes, potential accession tinita, which everyone knows is not going to happen at least anytime soon. And the response is suggested that russia is going to spin this issue around the concept of quote unquote, undivided security in europe and lateral who is referring to the 2 important papers that i think the rational part is going to put on the table. That is a stumble declaration of 999 in austin, a declaration of 2010 that endorsed this concept. If i divided security and no security of any country in europe could be achieved via security of other states. And i think that that is the substantial conversation and its better for all the parties to, to go to talk about the i can jump in there. I mean, this is something that the russians have brought up before. Melton burge, the general secretary. I just want addressing, i mean, this is again, one of the most frustrating things here is that the russians presented to papers. Essentially, what would become treaties . Lincoln just that wont react to ok. The self and burns as if, you know, the, the whole universe revolves around nato, is rules, which is so bizarre. I mean, im not in a ghost. Why should i buy and care about its rules . No, youre right, and this is a good point. Nato is open door policy that seen as sacrosanct. This is basically become akin to in terms of the west and nato members. This is equal to internet, no law in their eyes, but they all got a heart breaking up about our break will continue our discussion on some real estate, r t o. Join me every posted on the alex simon. Sure. Ill be speaking together in the world of politics, sport, business, im show business. Ill see you then. Mm. Youre chatting with jagger, the nutrition with Chinese Students on the sub casual regime. Kim . Hi sharon, im not sure. Sure. Okay, with me. I sure. Yeah, i look forward to some recruiting with she been closed online and kelly recruiting quote and i renewed my product here shows that thousands of london q 2 are letting me for she gave us times to i must be lucky. I couldnt fathom of fact mother, you know, if that im looking for a federal pesky asking you myakea protection for human procedure. Martha . A love oh, welcome back to crossed up. Were all things are considered. I and peter labelle, this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. I lets go back to patrick and clement. We had to go to a short break there. Go ahead and please finish up. You know, this, this idea that nato policy open door policy in this case is somehow sort of equal in sort of weight to international law. This is the argument thats being put forward by nato countries. So how did this happen . This has been sort of drifted out gradually over the last few years. You can see it and the rhetoric is becoming more political, more ideology. John stoughton burgers is becoming sort of more of a political figure than sorta director general of any military alliance. So nato is desperate for relevance in the world. And this is one of the reasons why this crisis is being ramped up. I believe theres also an economic piece on the back end of that. Of course, thats the arm sales. Its the military, industrial market. Ok, but beyond that, theyre also very scared. You know, theyre very close. They know theyre, theyre losing or have lost the don bass. Ok, creamy has gone. Everybody knows that John Mearsheimer said that in 2014, nobody got the memo in washington for sure. But the dumbass is gone, so this is a very difficult and they want revenge for crimea. Ok, theyre going to keep sanctions on. Theyre going to sabotage the normandy format and try to make sure that makes records are never realized. This is also a major objective of the west, so theyre really in a difficult situation. And again, its a, its a situation that theyre making. Now the, the, my don qu mostly piece for protesters and in 2014 that and also denial of history. The fact that the west is always been interested in destabilizing or grooming certain factions in western ukraine and this region. Since the end of the 2nd world war, youll never hear any of these 2 points. Theyre qu in 2014 and the history of the region. Youll never hear this address in context ever by any us media politician or think tank pundents re. Ok, and this is, this is the reason why theres a disconnect here in terms of discussions and diplomacy. Nancy went to eat with, havent brought up the dumbass. Right. I think this is where its really key to it all because i think if there are thinking people in washington in london, they know that the dumbass is lost. I mean, he can stay inside ukraines borders, but it will have never had cable never have direct control over it again. I mean, the camp government, you know, is killed, 14000 people there. I mean, i wouldnt trust them governing the don bass again when see thats the key to it all. Is it somehow get a provocation for the russians to do some kind of kinetic action regarding dumbass thing here . Regime already knows its gone. Thats how you look at the man, thats the trap. When attack will been attacked. Ok. And then you know, the dumbasses of pros and cons. It has a different status. And then the same thing, you know, some kind of skirmish around by me and i ended up in defeat and then they say, well, ok, our reward now is to get you into nature. Because we, we, we had to fight off an aggressor we, we were too small. We do in fact, that we didnt have enough allied support. And then there are candidates, he becomes a lot more viable. Does that make any sense . The maps, it does make a lot of sense to me, and i think in that context of overflowing of ukraine with weapons and then some of the private military contractors from the west. This very were some in this respect for the assessments that we in moscow here from, from, from the United States. Or, you know, since there are no security guarantees to need to within kind of formal on me to framework that we, the americans and the british and others have to show some support to the ukrainians are doing so by, you know, supply of weapons and then things like this, i think were also in other problem is the, were still are not secure from the what i would call the soft gosh, really syndrome. You know, it may not necessarily come from his lensky can self, but as, as patrick and many other analissa pointed out already that there are tons of actors, destructive accuracy, ukraine, and the laboratory alluded to that are interesting to repeat a when all these talk over the over the over done by show, between russia in the us and others, and would be happy to use the weapons that are supply to them to stage a provocation. And you know, create a pretext. And that causes bella for the, you know, russian response and things i guess. And that will then escalade to an unintended war that no party really seems to be wishing for, because there are seriously no, no consequences, no consequences that you can predict at this point. But i think weve also seen that the past that Wester States while having the a do not have a b, as for it was, it comes on the train policy. Really interesting, patrick them. A not so long but forgotten. Base reappeared in the British Press is shameka in fact or, you know, came back from his trip from over the new years. He was in poland and rubbing turkey and the right back there was a