Zvereva is a chemist and molecular biologist. Good evening at the end of the program our guests and optimists make a forecast. What is the probability in 10 years that chemists will synthesize life, and our expert professor kapustin discusses chemistry and life. My favorite journal is the chemistry of life, ive been reading it for decades since i was in school, and discussions have arisen in this journal more than once. Is the emergence of life even possible . Was there any life before the appearance of life and in general, what is life . Life is a combination of five great factors, these are chemical transformations , cellular processes, genes and evolution, and most importantly, an orderly flow of information, Something Else may be needed, but lack. At least one of these factors makes life impossible; at the next level , enzymes appear that participate in all chemical reactions and cellular metabolism. Enzymes are the creators and guardians of life over thousands of years of evolution. They developed proteins with a variety of functions. In one simple cell there are millions of protein molecules and a sign of life is millions of chemical reactions never occur chaotically. And when these millions of chemical reactions work simultaneously, the main sign of life is order, order in chaotic chemical processes , disorder, no life is possible, and i always tell you, the main thing is order, so that everything is in place, without this, life is impossible. Its just a chaotic order and you dont understand any of this, but i still have a personal question for you. Eh, they will come from afar, in general, you know the main question of philosophy. Something about the relationship between mind and spirit. On in fact, everything is simpler when what came first, the chicken or the egg, i have to answer you. This is apparently a question that no one has yet answered, philosophy has not answered. In general, you will take it philosophically. The science on this issue is still weak. Fine. We ll ask smart people now. This is the time alexandrovich when people actually thought about it. Well, i dont care about these eggs and they smoke. And when did people start thinking, when did life appear . Well, for example, i just found out what the main question really is. Tv series are by and large a responsible answer. Always answer your question. People have always been worried about what life is like, people have always been worried about where it comes from, they have always fought among themselves. Ah, first primitive, then more developed versions, and creationism , which claims that life was created, and vitalism, which claims that life has always been, and we find. Uh, such very pronounced, dedicated reflections on the origin and, to a lesser extent, on the essence of life in almost all the mythologies of the world. But where they look and everywhere the theme of creation is there in life or a person who is in focus i always found myself in, so to speak, old thoughts about the essence of living things. Yes, and all these, well, are the central myths of the majority. E of such large, more or less developed mythologies and similar myths are also found in mythologies that have not reached the level of complexity, but have a developed background, as well. These two questions about chicken have always been fought among themselves. It has its own charm. In an answer that says there is no need to ask. Where has it always been . Lets clarify . What exactly do we mean by this word . And there is a beauty in not accepting this lovely, and to say that how is such an important thing. We ignore, then, the question of its occurrence, moreover, life has always been understood dynamically. Yes, this procedural moment is that life is something happening. I could always guess in her and and in this regard, by the way, it is very interesting what professor kapustin said. Oh, well, there is a way of discussing the problem of living things that develops, well, by and large, from the 19th century , by and large, proteins, cell enzymes, and so on. Yes, that is, this is the biological, biological and chemical view. A in fact, archaic views on life, they bind her. Mostly with dy. We are with visible changes, yes, and in this sense, uh, well, actually complex organisms, like you and me. Yes . And this is what breathes. And breathing, in a sense, is the essence of life, and accordingly aristotle and the ancient tradition, and they distinguished living from inanimate objects precisely by their ability to independently produce movement. Yes , breathing and growth are such visible ones, and forms of movement that do not have external causes, the reason seems to lie in the very object. He somehow does it himself. Yes, well, accordingly, lets put it this way. And by the way, its beautiful, otherwise kapustin has reduced everything to squirrels, and here is the breath of the growth of maria or flax. What theories were there in general, and how did ideas change . Yes, a person about life, well, yes today, while we have come to consider all the theories that exist and well, if we go to the encyclopedia there will be six seven theories of the origin of life and for me the starting point, uh, leeuwenhoek began with the discovery of the microscope with the definition of the unit alive. Yes, a living unit is a living cell. And eh. Hmm, naturally, the closest of many theories is the theory of the behinic biochemical origin of life. The one that we teach you at school is oparins theory, according to the emergence of substances further, and complication in these appearances. Yes, there are only a few animals there, but they are closest to me. Eh, probably due to the same thing i did in life. This is one of the last theories that arose in the eighties, and in its final form it was formulated by gilbert. Hmm alone from the founders of nucleic acid sequencing, which sounded like the origin of life is based on the rna world, and rna is ribonucleic acids, respectively, but not dna, there is a slight modification that makes it easier to form threedimensional structures. And as a result, this molecule could perform several functions, on the one hand transmitting information. Yes, we already heard from professor kapustin on the other hand, namely, these molecules could have been, uh, the first catalysts, because also it was said that the main thing is the ordering of chemical reactions, the speed of which is catalyzed in our country, and by certain substances now. Yes, this is the main function performed by proteins, but initially, during the process of the emergence of life, this could have been the case. Uh, rna first everything was ordered by dna and then it appeared from these rnas, accordingly, we have biopolymers and from biopolymers. We are not talking about dna and not about proteins, but about aop rna yes, and the system has already become more complicated, that life has flown to us from somewhere, we have it i can stand such supporters. I really like it. The universe expands and explodes, and then again at the end and comes back again. If she came from somewhere. She also had to figure it out from somewhere. These are their problems, lets talk well, but after advertising , advertising is probably tv. What is the power in money after all . The weapon of power, strength is always in the truth. And the truth is always strong. Where else is there an exhibition of reserved special forces . The Program Science and we is on air , a program about how science will change our lives in the next 10 years, in 10 years, chemists synthesize a new life, probably, and i hope that the old one will not disappear anywhere; our expert professor kapustin is optimistic about the future ; supramolecular chemistry extends beyond molecular chemistry, which is interested not in what happens in molecules, but in what happens between molecules, achievements this chemistry is already grandiose. It is clear how proteins combine to form hemoglobin, how white bodies recognize and destroy foreign bodies. How the genetic code is transmitted supramolecules are able to transfer dna fragments into the nucleus, for example treatment of genetic diseases. This is such a modern trojan horse. Molecular programming has become possible for supramolecular compounds. A chemist creates the basic Building Blocks of a molecule, which then bind to each other, and very recently adaptive chemistry has emerged, when the system itself makes a selection among objects and is able to combine these objects depending on the requirements of the center. But these processes have already been given, but still before the emergence of life. We are still far away, we know too little. Well, in general, its too much for now we dont know much, i understood Sergei Lvovich and what science considers life today, there are countless definitions of what life is and, probably, even your season cycle and programs will not be enough. So that man, yes, we are ready, yes, thats why, probably. Costs. Well, we know from school and more partially or most know that this is the way of existence of protein bodies. Yes , something so simple, it seems, well, maybe, uh, acceptable, but for me personally. Um, im ready to present to you, uh, my two definitions of what life is, and one, um, is enough the complex and scientific real, and the second simpler at the everyday level, so, if we talk about the complex scientific, then hmm life is an energy selfreproducing system with a large number of errors that reduce entropy. Yeah, we got to thinking, and every phrase is breathing and movement this is the energy of the reproductive system itself this is the transfer of Genetic Information with a large number of errors this is that any transfer of information occurs with errors. Glory. To god it gives variety to our lives. And just like that, evolution and, of course, we are trying to fix ourselves. And, that is, reduce entropy. That is absolutely true. Here everyone is mine, but on the other hand. Now, if you need it simpler to that level, then i will say that life is aggression. Because from the very beginning, as soon as the first cell was divided into two. She captured the neighboring territory. She began to eat, divided into two more and moved on. And today you know that the whole planet is full of life, that uh, what we call the king of uh, animals, uh, man, he is generally are everywhere and uh, well, under it, its like everything disappears. And this is, uh, aggressiveness , aggressiveness. This is precisely the property of life, including, uh, cosmological uh, theory that arrived and this is this, because , naturally, life without aggression, that is , the conquest of space and certain food resources cannot exist well Alexander Georgievich and what is science today talks about how life appeared, did it arrive or what . No, of course not, but lets for im a chemist, colleagues, biologists, chemists, philosophers, what life is for me will be clear, my position. For me, life is a collection of chemical elements. Here, i look when she is human. These are 22 chemical elements. 95 is carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen and everything around is mushrooms, viruses, bacteria, plants from fungi. Almost nothing is different. Of course there is. We even have calcium, chromium and molybdenum. It doesnt even matter from these atoms, molecules are formed from the simplest molecules of amino acids and what we have, as we say , is maria melnikova, the theory of rna rna and dna heres how to get them, of course, how chemists can synthesize life, they thought about this about 50 years ago, that they took the simplest chemical compounds, methane, water. The first experiment in a flask carried out charges initially arising, as it was on earth . Yes, then five amino acids were isolated, and they were obtained from precisely those components that, well , billions of years ago could have existed on our planet, and then when the level of technology increased, 22 amino acids, we got received amino acids, then, if possible collect amino acids from such simple compounds. This means you can assemble a more complex structure of proteins, which are enzymes and so on, another line. The nucleotides that we built from them, rna and dna, were also taken, for example, formaldehyde and hydrocyanic acid. They were present there and carried out manipulations from these. Well, very simple compounds were able to obtain all the nucleotides needed today, from which the next question is built. But we also need to connect them in a chain and there are such theories, how they connected the chain, how they appeared functions and so on. For me , as a chemist, life is something that consists of amino acids, which were once once obtained from the simplest chemical compounds , whether chemists will be able to synthesize rna or dna. We can already do small ones, but probably the level of technology we have today is such that we are not yet ready to synthesize it. Well talk about the future in full later. I think yes, but look, there really is. Well, some piecemeal experiments on your rna there , as you say, according to your theory, which you i like it, rather a question arose for Alexander Georgievich in connection with his position. But as a person, he is also a chemist, and they are still a chemist by training, which sounds like this, and in ordinary reactions. Yes, we get a mixture of uh hmm a stereoisomers. Yes, and when we talk about living systems. Yes, our Main Building block in proteins is l amino acids. Yes, accordingly, and also creatites. That is, even in this case, the question arises. How did this transition happen . Neck, bottleneck, of course, everything happens through a certain selection between exists seriously today in science. This is trying to do something with it , somehow synthesize it. Everything, of course, they do it like that, of course, they do it and in our country they do it and do it on a commercial basis now. And companies that exist oliganucleotide. This is already yes, nucleotides combined into longer molecules, respectively, that is, longer than one. Yes, there are already up to 100 and beyond, so that, accordingly, chemical synthesis, there are the same peptides and so on, but in order to understand life after all, as we already found out this is a complex system. Well, if we talk from the point of view of synthetic dna, uh, such systems already exist. Yes, there are cells where the dna is completely replaced with synthetic synthesized ones and this cell lives. She is considered to be the first such life. Well, the first such artificial cell was created back in 2010. This was an article in said later. Yes, this direction developed in such a way that the minimum required genome was determined. Yes, that is, this is artificial. The cell contains a smaller set of genes than the same leukoplasm, and so on. Lvovich said, does she know how to divide, and she aggressively, she knows how to divide, and if at the beginning she divided, lets say, somewhat unevenly, that is, bacterial cells of different sizes were obtained, then later, accordingly, with the addition of an additional number of genes. It was done a year ago that mistakes and errors occurred. They allow crime to occur; it has become more or less, it is adapting. Well, now in this cab. She is accordingly cash real living. They just pushed her artificial dna artificially. Well, with the help of technology, they naturally removed the tudynka, which was natural, and replaced it with completely artificial, well synthesized ones. What if it was just the dna inside that was replaced . Yes, there are a lot of things, of course it is necessary, so it remains here. Here, can such a cell be considered truly fully synthesized . Yes, that is, it turned out that only dna was synthesized, but not the entire cell; after all, you havent done it yet, the meaning is that it still contains dna because from this one two came out yes four eight, that is, they lived their own lives, that is, we roughly speaking, in philosophical philosophical language, or did not really breathe in the soul , the genetic soul, which was then inherited well through generations Sergei Lvovich well, you already know that, by the way, we have. Eh, mutual friend pavel. He loves animals very much and recently. And i bought it for myself about my greatgranddaughter. That is , dolly the sheep that was cloned. So you can simply explain in a popular way how cloning of life differs from synthesizing life. Or is it the same thing . Lets try to draw it so that it is you can even do more, although i have already touched a little on this good thing. Figure it out, well come to you, that no, while everyone is still ironing everything. Eh, you can just tell me. What is cloning . Do we have a cell that contains Genetic Information . Yes, this is the smoke inside, this one is like this. Lets draw dna a. And we have another cell that contains another dna. What are we doing . We remove this dna from this cell to the outside. Yes, the cell remains dna. But lets take it just this one. Kdmk and take it into the cell, which we only dna and then influence it with chemical stimuli, some kind of chemistry, let s write and this cell begins to divide into two and stop. Dna that came from this cell and this is called cloning. Its as if we take from life and transfer life. Well, a little different, well, just like that, a little different, probably, well, maybe not much, Something Like that. Uh, we actually have the creation of life. We have a device. Which is called a dna synthesizer where Chemical Substances from certain bottles are served and dna molecules are synthesized today. Uh, these are whole workshops of synthesizers that synthesize not very long dna molecules, but then, using certain methods, they are combined even into very large extended molecules. And after this , again, we have a cell that contained some kind of dna, we again remove the dna from there and introduce this synthesized chemical into it. Dna can again be influenced by some Chemical Forces and the cell begins to form bottles, where does it come from . And these are the chemists synthesized, and these are the chemists here. Yes, it synthesizes chemical compounds, individual letters of the genetic code, and you g and c, going to a certain given by the subsequent person, to be honest, this is all, it seems, you know this on a letter, where now we will stick a stamp on everything, and the envelopes this is important until there is an envelope. You keep putting up stamps. Here, here we are, stuck in a cage. The dna taken was already alive. Yes, but i agree with you, but at this stage of the development of science it is not profitable to create. But why cant we get a new cell . Well, well, we are using oil now, which it produces cheaper energy. This is just a box to make to put your brand in there. And that this is not a problem that we save energy, streamline the system, life reduces entropy. Why make it harder on ourselves when we need to get it done first . This is how to effectively spend your energy this is exactly the approach to life. I just ca