place here, there's three more, as you can see in the difference. you can't see that clearly at the moment, but you can see the stretches out there as well. now, this has been one of the hardest areas to get to for a long time. it had to be helicopters. we've driven it, and that took many hours. you can see the rescue workers are here now. these helicopters are coming in to pick up either survivors, or bodies and to take them away two major hospitals in cities that haven't been so badly affected. they're also running -- from here, into the remote villages that are still completely cut off by road. they've done a remarkable job, at actually getting the road open as far as we are. it took a long time and it is quite scary because it's quite clear the wrong -- could happen if there was another trump. or it could come back down. this is another house and apartment block that has been completely flattened. it was here that we saw the body of that young woman i mentioned, being taken away. they've got in some cutting gear, they're obviously trying to get in under what looks like a floor. it's actually the roof of the building that's just come straight down. and they're just trying to get underneath. occasionally, it goes a very quiet and they say hold on. they're trying to see if somebody is alive. i have to say, when they're doing this and that's moving rubble, debris, when they try to move the building, it's probably pretty certain that whoever is in there has not made it. is not alive. it's difficult to see, as i said before, in this particular area, how anyone would really stand any chance. it's fair to say many didn't. you look around parts of the town as well, it's not just -- this is sort of a ridge line that lead down to the valley floor. that basically collapsed. this is where houses were. this isn't the edge of a cliff, this is just part of the town. but it's just completely slipped down. and then further up, you can see here, this was a major administrative building. a supermarket there as you can see. they just turned completely into trouble. this rescue effort, it's going to go on for a long time. i'd say it's a recovery effort now, for many people. but there is still hope. but that hope is really running out. they've only got a few days, the golden days. there's only two or three, maybe four. sometimes in earthquakes you get an amazing discovery of somebody who's been able to survive, but it's very hot here, there's no rain due. and so i think if they're not found in the next day or two, then there will be no hope. thousands of people have died. >> yeah, that was sky news chief correspondent stewart ramsey. turning now to the latest news in the fast-moving effort to challenge donald trump's eligibility for the presidency. one month ago, the idea that section three of the 14th amendment could disqualify the twice impeached multi indicted failed former president from holding public office again was mostly just a discussion topic, debated among legal scholars. but now, six voters in colorado have filed a lawsuit seeking to remove trump from the states ballots for the upcoming presidential election, alleging that his role in the january 6th insurrection makes him ineligible for public office. it's a case that the revered legal scholar at harvard university, called, the strongest of the suits filed to compel secretaries of state to apply the 14th amendment disqualification clause to trump. professor tribe and his colleague, the retired former federal judge jay michael luttig helped to bring this topic to the forefront of the public consciousness about three weeks ago, after they co-wrote a widely read police for the atlantic, bluntly titled, the constitution prohibits trump from ever being president again. and then they appeared on the show at the time of the publication to explain their stance. their endorsement of this idea has given the movement new momentum, as the 2024 primaries approach, with trump as the front runner for the republican nomination by a country mile. well discussion of trump's eligibility has intensified quickly over the past month, it's not the first time that the question has been raised. just five days after the insurrection at the capitol, to law professors wrote an op-ed for the washington post and raise the possibility of invoking the so-called disqualification clause two barred trump from holding office again. a month later, two former republican congress members, both from the state of missouri, proposed the same thing. writing that the former president quote, poses an exponential threat to american democracy. but the exact meaning of the disqualification clause has largely been untested for the last hundred 50 years, simply because there hasn't been an insurrection or anything resembling an insurrection in the united states in that time, up until january the 6th, 2021. frankly, there's not a lot of precedent to give definitive guidance as to how and when the disqualification clause can be properly invoked. although, some groups have put it to the test in the two and a half years since the insurrection, and the results have been mixed. georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene faced a similar challenge to her candidacy last year, but she was ultimately not disqualified after a state administrative law judge ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove that she engaged an insurrection. but last september, a group of new mexico residents successfully sued to have this man, the otero county commissioner kobe griffin, removed from office using the 14th amendment as the basis of its argument at the time. can we griffin had been convicted of participating in the capitol riots, and perhaps more importantly, that ruling was the first time that a court explicitly called the events of january 6th an insurrection. section three of the 14th amendment is short. it's two sentences. but it's untreated ground. because of that, it could set a new president and completely up and the 2024 presidential race, and that's why we are going to continue to follow this story very, very closely. joining me now, steve bennett. he's a producer for the rachel maddow show and an msnbc political contributor. he is also the author of the book impostors, how republicans quit governing and seized american politics. also with us as a scott -- he is a criminal defense attorney, a partner at reid smith lp, and the former chair of the national bar association. good morning to both of you gentlemen, thank you for being with us. steve, let's talk about this. this amendment and this particular clause of the amendment have been around for a very, very long time. some people have been talking about it, it's been hinting around dormant for a while, and poof, this thing burst on the scene and now secretaries of state all across the country are being forced to look at it. either because the media is talking about it, or people are emailing their offices, or because they're filing lawsuits. tell me, as somebody who follows these stories very closely, how you see this developing. >> how you see thi >> i think it's interesting to see that it's not just secretaries of states that have this on the radar, all of a sudden donald trump has it on his radar. for the better part of the past two years, -- academic exercise. they're just shattering about these conversations online, he can blow it off. but it's a great interest that over the last seven days, all of a sudden donald trump is taking it seriously. you seeing him denounce the lawsuits, describing it as a trick in his words. now, this is emblematic of the fact that the conversation has fundamentally changed. it is no longer just and obstruction, there is no longer academic debate that is happening in the atlantic. we're having this -- this is moving to the political sphere, moving to the legal sphere, the courtroom sphere. and it's getting the attention of donald trump among others, because it's reaching a point where this is actually becoming a threat to his candidacy. >> well, scott, as i discussed with professor tribe earlier in the show, he believes of all the stuff that's going on out there, this colorado case is the strongest case to emerge yet. highlighting that the plaintiffs have standing. that's a word with which you are very familiar, those of us who are not lawyers don't really understand. but this has been tried before in florida, and they say the voter doesn't have standing. it's not up to a random voter to decide whether or not another american citizen has the right to run for office. talk to me about this. there's something actually about colorado law that makes this a little more in tribes view, a little more meaty. >> i'm sorry i'm going to disagree with professor tribe, whose books i have been trained on at howard law school. but let me just say this, i believe he's right about colorado law, because there's a specific statute that enables the public, the voters, to bring this challenge in district court. it empowers them to get a decision, and the court to give a decision. -- conclusions of law or what we need here. constitution doesn't have any guidance for us, right? and so it's a living document, none of these provisions die. and so you've got to interpret it as if we're in 2023, which we are. and what we usually will do is file a lawsuit, have some findings of fact by a jury or a judge, reach some conclusions of law, let the parties appeal it, get to the supreme court. if you get a finding of fact or a conclusion of law in the judicial system, then you can rely on that. but let's remember one last thing. in most jurisdictions, voters have standing to administratively challenge before the board of election of ethics, to throw somebody up the ballot. if you're in political competition or candidate, you can always move the person off the ballot. and that's what's really powerful about colorado. you can do this in many other jurisdictions, simply through the administrative process that then you can go through the -- process, and get a final decision from the supreme court. this is a really important -- that we need to look closely at and stay focused on. >> steve, in a testament to what scott has just been trying to explain and -- was trying to explain, there is so little president out there. and we don't really know how to make sense of it. this very week there was a moment when donald trump's lawyers, who have been trying to get this removed from colorado because they thought it was disadvantageous for this case to be heard in colorado, they wanted it to be moved to federal court. they then reversed their position on it and realize they didn't have the standing to do so. so, there are two points here. it's unprecedented. number two, one of the points that laurence tribe makes is that it's not a criminal statute. he's not gonna be indicted for this, he's not going to jail. this is a qualification. it's a rule. the same rule that says you have to be 35 years of age, or you have to be an american born person to run for president. the argument here is that he's disqualified from being president, not that he's committed any crime or is subject to any legal proceeding. >> right. and i think that's an important point, because it leads to the effect that trump doesn't quite know what to say. we're not a point where he is pushing back against -- he realizes that there's a threat. he realizes that this is a conversation that's moving beyond academia. at the same time, he's pushing back in such a way to suggest he doesn't know what to do with this threat. we see him lashing out wildly at people like andrew weissmann and others, where he does a lot of name-calling. we see him denouncing them and begged terms. but at the same time, we're now seeing a legal argument. we're not seeing a political or a policy argument. we don't know what to say. although he recognizes the seriousness of the threat. he's ultimately, if these lawsuits succeed,, is he even eligible for the presidency? is he eligible for the ballots? and the answer would be no. >> scott, interesting point. there's a couple things in this. i really just implore everybody to read your constitution generally, but read this 14th amendment and read that clause. donald trump continues to show support for people who have either been convicted of taking part in the january 6th insurrection, or are currently being prosecuted. that's actually part of the clause. giving aid and comfort to those who have done so. he remains entirely unrepentant about those actions, he called at one point, you all remember, we must forget these things. he called for the constitution to be terminated. it lasted about a day. he said he didn't say it, except he posted it so we could see that he said it. if one is evaluating whether donald trump is sort of squishy on insurrection, it's his own words that will be used again him that administrative hearing. >> yeah, i think you're right about that. and maybe he takes the stand, maybe he doesn't. but this is going to be a fact finding mission, and the judge and the court or going to have to reach a conclusion. showing support through his first amendment, for people who attacked the capitol, that may be disgusting and ridiculous, but he's got a first amendment to do that. what's more important is it did his words drive that insurrection, and his subsequent support. , those are positive facts for the plaintiffs in that colonial case that in fact he's engaged in support. but -- the constitution doesn't give us any guidelines to enforce it. a judicial decision has to be made, whether it's by a judge or jury, to enforce that. but remember one thing. the power of this approach in regards to the colorado, and keeping him off the ball's, is even more powerful than the criminal piece, because it can be more efficient. but here's what we should be paying attention to. donald trump doesn't have a campaign. his criminal prosecutions are his campaign, and his criminal prosecutions a part of this political process. if he gets off the ballot, that's even more powerful than him being criminally convicted, which is why this lawsuit in colorado, and there will be others around the country, are what we really ought to be watching. because if he is not off the ballot, then he can't be elected. if you can't be elected, is a political fundraising -- and he becomes irrelevant. although he will continue to be in the process, of course. >> that is why this topic is so important. thanks to both of you guys. we appreciate it. -- msnbc political contributor, he is the author of the impostors, how republicans quit governing and seized american politics. a scott bolden is a criminal defense attorney and former chair of the national bar association pack. up next, according to the twice impeached quadruple indicted president, we are living in up in a republic. why the former president's use of the term to describe the united states is as dangerous as it is ironic. plus, the climate crisis is now preventing some homeowners from getting insurance. and, alabama's attorney general is a sorting in court that he has the unilateral power to prosecute anyone in his state who helps anyone else obtain a legal abortion, outside alabama. a. you don't have to take it to the dealer. bring it to safelite. we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech vo: schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. 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campaign. so cheap and dirty. but that's where america is right now. be careful what you wish for. it's nothing new for trump to threaten retaliation, and quiet on fairness. although we shouldn't become immune to his threats of revenge. but his accusation that the united states is becoming a banana republic is noteworthy. the term banana republic was first point by the author of henry, 120 years ago in his book, cabbages and kings. which focused on a fictional country that he called the republic of and jericka. it was loosely based on his experience living in honduras during a time when that country's economy was almost completely dependent on the export of bananas, to the united states. you can't really talk about the modern meaning of the term without acknowledging its history. it reflects the effect that the fruit trade specifically the export of bananas, from central and south america to united states in the late 18th and early 1900s, had on latin america. many of these countries, including honduras, costa rica, they quickly became reliant on the export of bananas for the vast majority of their economy. these single export economies were incredibly susceptible to corruption, and outside influence by trade interests of the u.s.-based companies like that united fruit company, which you know now as chiquita banana. in honduras, for instance, the united fruit company's pull within the government led to election many position, misuse of power, exploitation of native workers, and even a coup led by an american banana industry leader and his local alive. but overtime, the term banana republic expanded beyond its more literal application of a republican controlled by the banana industry, the term banana republic now describes an unstable, correct government susceptible to corporate or foreign influence. often involving misuse of military and executive power. in claiming that the indictments against him inherently make the united states a quote, banana republic, trump is incorrectly by the way saying that any kind of accountability that reaches the highest office of the land is in sickly corrupt. but really, it's quite the opposite. the indictments that trump faces all voted on by a jury of his peers, demonstrates that in america, no one actually is above the law. accountability at the highest levels of government is a positive thing. it's a sign of a healthy republic. and many of our most respected allies across the globe have helped their top leaders accountable in recent history. my colleague who was just talking with me compiled a list last month. italy prosecuted of former prime minister, prince -- south africa prosecuted a former president. south korea prosecuted of former president. brazil has prosecuted more than one former president. israel has prosecuted more than one former prime minister, and it is right now attempting to prosecute the current prime minister. germany prosecuted a former president. portugal prosecuted of former prime minister, croatia prosecuted at former prime minister. as recently as june, nicola sturgeon, the former head of the scottish government was arrested on allegations of financial misconduct. and a study conducted last year by lagrange university in georgia review nearly 250 cases over the last 50 years of countries that held their leaders to account for alleged misconduct. including indictments, arrests, and imprisonment. and that study found that based on measurements determined by freedom house, an organization that measures freedom and democracy, the vast majority of those nations became more free. but, if you want to dig into it, i can tell you what does have the flavor of a quote, banana republic. misusing the military to escort him for a photo op at st. john's church in d.c., while peaceful protesters marched in response to the murder of george floyd. or claiming quote, total authority over federal law enforcement and then using it to target political enemies. or pressuring a foreign ally, ukraine, to investigate domestic political rivals. or undermining the very institutions of our democracy, eroding the public's faith in our elections, repeatedly lying to the public about election fraud. or, even implicitly influencing followers to threaten election workers. to manipulate and disenfranchise voters who disagree with him. and now, vowing revenge on his political enemies if he is return to office. because in his words, quote, they are doing it to us. that is donald trump's been in a republic. a republic. 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[ horns honking ] ♪ california love ♪ ♪ now let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west ♪ and my patents say: ♪ a state that's untouchable like eliot ness ♪ ♪ say what you say, but give me that bomb beat from dre ♪ ♪ let me serenade the streets of l.a. ♪ ♪ from oakland to sac-town ♪ ♪ the bay area and back down ♪ ♪ cali is where they put their mack down, give me love! ♪ ♪ shake, shake it, baby ♪ ♪ shake it, cali ♪ ♪ oooooooooooh ♪ ♪ california love ♪ >> the united nations has issued yet another stark warning to the world, globally our opportunity to stave off the worst consequences of climate change is quote, rapidly narrowing window. the u.n. secretary general antonio said on wednesday, quote, our planet has just endured a season of simmering, the hottest summer on record. climate breakdown has begun. he added our climate is imploding faster than we can cope, with extreme weather events hitting every corner of the planet. the evidence for this is everywhere. wildfires, extreme storms, prolonged drought followed by torrential deluges, flash flooding, climate fuel disasters. they're costing lives, livelihoods, and lots and lots of money. the cost of natural disasters has been increasingly significant for decades. according to the national oceanic and atmospheric administration, the average yearly cost of major disasters has more than quadrupled over the last four decades. in 2022, major natural disasters caused the united states about 177 billion dollars in damages, and insurers don't want to take the heat. analysis of data from lexus nexus risk solutions found at the average price of home insurance has risen by 21% nation wide, since 2015. which translates to hundreds of dollars more on the average homeowners premium. in some states, the average increase is much higher. in florida, the price of insurance policies rose an average of almost 60% since 2015. in texas and colorado, the cost of home insurance is up about 40%. but it's bigger than that. across the country, major insurers have been rolling back the coverage that they're willing to provide altogether. companies have been backing out, particularly from disaster prone high-risk areas all together. and it's happening all over the country. states like california and colorado, which seat disproportionately high fire risk. florida, texas, and louisiana, who see increasingly high storm risk. they are losing insurers left and right. the impact can be devastating. most americans cannot afford to rebuild their homes out of pocket if disaster strikes. as a result, more and more americans are turning to state funded insurance. it's also known as insurance of last resort, because the policies are quite expensive and they tend to be reserved for homes in areas that are otherwise deemed an insurable. in florida, many smaller insurance companies have gone bankrupt in the last two years alone. many of them citing increasingly damaging storms as the catalyst. this summer, aaa said it would not renew policies for its high risk customers. farmers insurance joined the list of major insurers that will stop offering new policies in florida altogether. and they will not renew thousands of existing policies. the states last resort insurers expected to have more customers in 2023 than in the last two decades, because of the quote, continued instability within the florida insurance market, and quote. following hurricane ian last fall. and in louisiana, louisiana state university study recently found that 17% of policyholders said their home insurer canceled their coverage in 2022. early the summer, many of the top insurers in california, one by one announced they would simply stop selling new policies to homeowners. as disaster risk skyrockets, and as insurers reassess the risk they're willing to take on in all 50 american states, americans are left with dwindling opportunities to protect themselves and their homes. i want to talk about this some more. joining me now is dave jones. he is a former california insurance commissioner, and the director of the climate risk initiative at uc berkeley center for law, energy, and the environment. david, thank you so much for joining us. this is not an abstract climate discussion, right? the vic ramaswamy said something about the climate agenda is a hoax or something. okay, talk to the people in texas. in florida, in louisiana, in colorado and california. literally just regular people who gets a notice to say your insurance isn't being renewed, or we are leaving your state. this is climate change where the rubber hits the road. >> that's right. this is real, it's happening, it's been happening for sometime. it's only getting worse as climate change accelerates. and as you said in the league in, increasingly throughout the united states, homeowners, businesses, renters are finding it difficult to afford insurance, let alone find insurance. and what's happening in texas, and louisiana, florida, and colorado, is just the canary in the coal mine in terms of -- the geographies differ in terms of the kinds of perils they face, but for example, this past year in the midwest, heavy rains resulted in about 40 billion dollars in losses. vermont, which is thought about as a climate refuge, suffered incredible flooding and losses. the new england coast is also subject to increasing and frequent storms, which are causing damage and causing insurers to become increasingly challenging to find. so we are marching steadily towards an untroubled future, because of climate change. >> dave, obviously the bigger question here is where i started this conversation. and that is we all have to understand the climate risk and the things that need to be done on a policy level at the state level, at the federal level, all around the world to combat climate change. but on this particular front, is there anything that my viewer can do? i mean, how do you combat this particular issue? is there something that should be done to make sure that americans remain insured in the case of a climate disaster? >> yeah, of course, you have to start with what's driving this increased risk, and what's causing insurers to jack up the rates and pull out of markets across the united states. and that is climate change. we need to do more to stop using fossil fuels, to electrify buildings, to move towards electric transportation. there's a lot that you have discussed in prior shows that we need to accomplish, and we need to accomplish it faster. that's where we need to start. second, there are some things insurers can do. insurers are investing about 500 to 9 billion dollars in oil, gas, and coal and other greenhouse gas producing industries. they stop those investments, because that's contributing to the problem. insurers also ensure fossil fuel enterprises, which is contributing to the problem as well. we also need to make more investments in nature based approaches to reduce risk. there's tremendous empirical evidence that, for example, using prescribed fire and ecological funding in our forests in the west can dramatically reduce the severity of wildfires. and the biden infrastructure bill had about five billion dollars to do this very thing across federal lands. california's governor -- club out two billion dollars towards management. but we need to get that money deployed, we need to manage those forests and back down that risk. and then another big factor here is getting insurers to recognize that risk reduction. they're not currently doing that, with regard to their rates. so nature-based approaches which include replanting salt marshes on the coast, using improved methods to deal with controlling flooding in the midwest, including levee setbacks, bypasses, replanting mangroves, all of these demonstrably approve our car biloxi to sustain reduce risk. but we also need insurance to recognize those models, and they're not currently doing so. >> dave, i think you just suggested about six more segments that we need to do on this particular issue, because this is going to become very -- if it's not already real to you and all the states we've named, it's real to a lot of americans. it's going to become very soon. thank you. dave jones is the director of the climate risk initiative at uc berkeley center for law, energy, and the environment. we want to hear from you. if you're one of these people who had your insurance canceled because of climate-related things, send me an email at my story at velshi.com. i want to hear your story. more of your show after the break. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ my most important kitchen tool? 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>> well, part of the problem is that different courts have taken a different approach. the imminent act approach is really the ninth circuit. there are other circuits that have allowed more prosecutions for what they consider private facilitating conduct. and then there is the more fundamental question about who gets to decide whether it's a crime, right? because if you're traveling to a state like california or illinois or massachusetts, and abortion is a protected right, it's not a crime. so we're dealing with an area where there's a lot of gray area, a lot of uncertainty in a very conservative supreme court that's going to be resolving that. >> let's talk about this. you and i have had many conversations about how the fall of row and the many manifestations of attempts by the attorney general in alabama have had an impact on your work. how does this further have an impact on your work, when someone comes to you and says i need an abortion? >> it's an impossible situation for us right now. we never wanted to be a test case of anything. we just want to be able to give the best health care weekend to people who no longer have any options. and so when i have a patient who is calling up the clinic and saying i'm a mother of small children, i need an abortion, where can i go? and the staff says, i can't tell you that, can you just come in here and we can at least see how pregnant you are, we get people who say no, you can't help me i'm going to wrap my car around a tree. i'm going to pay someone to beat me. this is the type of call that we are receiving right now, and it's breaking us. it's brace breaking our staff, and we don't have any resource right now. >> there are conservative activists that are increasingly pushing these so-called trafficking laws to prevent women from traveling for an abortion. it's remarkable that's the language we're using for women who are traveling for an abortion. texas town has attempted to make it illegal for people to travel on certain roads through their jurisdiction if their purpose is receiving an abortion. this is kind of handmaid's tale stuff, right? where in america or you stopped at a road because of your intent to get to the other place, unless in commission of either a federal crime or a crime over state borders? >> yeah, i mean, i think this is the second life of texas -- some people might remember the bounty ville from last year. these activists and texas or trying to use the same device, essentially to say this may be unconstitutional, but no federal court is ever going to get a crack at it. and we're going to kind of outsource enforcement to controlling family members, husbands, angry neighbors, people who are nosy to a centrally turn on one another and bring these lawsuits. that's actually what they're envisioning. so this is another law that may well not be unconstitutional, but will be very impossible to bring challenges to or at least potentially possible to bring challenges to just in the same way as being -- >> i want to be very careful, robin, because of the work that you do. and you ceased to tell me anything you don't want to tell me. but back when you and i have talked there of been various ways in which you've been able to try to extend people help who are seeking an abortion. giving them a website, telling what state they can go to to get an abortion. you have to interpret what your attorney general is doing in the state. is that potentially a crime, if someone comes in and says i need an abortion, you say i can provide one under alabama law, and they say we're gonna get an abortion, and you say illinois. is that a crime? >> we don't do that. under our understanding, that would be a crime. at this point, our only option is when somebody says i want an abortion, we tell them that there is a link on our website that a person can go to if they are pregnant, and that that link provides resources to everything that they could need while pregnant. so it provides resources to who can assist them in the state if they want to continue their pregnancy. it provides resources to who will help them with adoption, and then it provides resources to other websites, other links that will tell people where they can get an abortion. but that's not enough. i mean, right now orleans cape is changing so dramatically. every few weeks. all of a sudden north carolina does not have abortion, south carolina does not have abortion after six weeks. florida is on the edge of potentially losing abortion after six weeks. it's impossible for people like us to be able to navigate and be aware of what is the most accessible place for a person to get to. how is a person who is pregnant and does not want to be pregnant and is panicked, and doesn't have the resources, and doesn't have the internet access, and doesn't have the knowledge, how are they supposed to know any of this on their own? >> mary, the polling indicates that -- we've seen this in all of these referendums that are being held in various states. whether it's antiabortion activists putting it forward or abortion rights activists putting it forward. it's always the same. americans don't want infringements on their bodily autonomy, whether your democratic or republican. this business about travel banning and getting people in trouble for things they do in other states where it's not illegal, i can't imagine this is popular. how is it succeeding? how is it succeeding? >> four well, this is another sign that a lot of people in the republican party, and i would say especially at the state level, are more concerned about primary challenges from the right, more concerned -- these voters than they are about the media and american voters who don't like the sort of thing. and it's worth emphasizing that travel restrictions are among the most unpopular things that folks in the antiabortion -- are proposing. this is right up there with exceptions that don't -- bands that don't contain any exceptions at all. so this is something that reflects the interests of a party that isn't that concerned about what most people believe when it comes to abortion. and that should be concerning in and of itself. >> robin, it's hard for me to keep track of exactly what has happened, like whose draconian. but at one point, idaho was floating something similar about crimes that people go to another state to have an abortion performed. i had the governor of washington state on who said this is not how it works in this country. idaho cannot decide about what washington state decides crimes are. you just mentioned that you're surrounded by a whole lot of states with abortion restrictions, but is there something that will not have abortion restrictions can do to help your situation or the situation of people who come to you seeking an abortion? >> i mean, honestly, the thing that i need people to remember is that this is coming -- the federal society put out some sort of blueprint for how they can get a national abortion ban, that is a total abortion ban. nobody is safe anywhere, and so by helping us fight these things here on the ground in our states, it has to be in our states. it can't be in sanctuary states, it can't be in national organizations. you have to help us fight on the ground, because you want that fight here before it comes for you. >> i'm, sorry to both of, you i'm sorry to keep having you on his guests and keep having these conversations. but i suspect we will for a long time. -- is a law professor and a historian and a guggenheim fellow at uc davis law school. the author of agüero, the history of a national obsession. robin -- is the operational director at the west alabama women center and the offer of new handbook for post roe america. we are gonna put those on, we will tweet both of those out by the way, and they are two really important books free to understand where we are in america right now. that does it for me, thank you for watching, good to be back here next saturday and sunday morning from 10 am to noon eastern. stay right where you, are inside, with jen psaki begins right now. >> fulton county d.a. fani willis puts another win on the board, and hits back hard against house republicans. there is really no one better to talk about all of that then prosecutor turn congressman dan goldman. he is coming up first. plus, donald trump seems to be freaking out a little because of 14th amendment lawsuits trying to get him thrown off the ballot. he is even attacking a member of our in-house law firm by name. camille country lawn into weissmann are here for reaction to that. also, today, what has gone into republican congressman ken buck? i will ask the conservative member of the freedom caucus why he is going after marjorie taylor greene and speaking out against an impeachment inquiry of president biden. and later. my conversation with senator amy klobuchar. a few thoughts about her republican colleagues talking about a re-brand

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