bipartisan bill to fund the government and extend covid relief benefits that are keeping millions afloat amid this crisis. we begin in nashville. multiple senior federal law enforcement officials tell nbc news they have searched the home of 63-year-old anthony quinn warner in connection with the christmas day morning in downtown nashville. they are investigating whether or not he may have been the person responsible for the bombing which left at least three wounded and scores homeless. our vacationing president has not spoken about this at all. he hasn't reacted to the united states surpassing 19 million total cases of covid-19. more than 332,000 americans are now dead from the disease, all in less than ten months, from a president who said it was going to go down to zero. almost 20,000 americans are now dying each week from covid-19. 3,000 are dying every day. hospitals and icus around the country are nearing or at capacity. americans are dying from covid-19 at the fastest rate of the entire pandemic. the entirely predictable outcome of the thanksgiving holiday g get-togethers. expect another surge based on travel data showing more americans traveled by plane before these holidays than at any point since the start of the pandemic in march. our vacationing outgoing president continues to ignore this crisis and focus his attention on making cartoonishly authoritarian and false statements about the status of the vaccine. trump is focusing on trump, like he always does. damn the people and the country. he sunk to a low never before reached by an american president, as donald trump says the united states is a corrupt third world country that is about to be led by a, quote, fake president. the vacationing outgoing president calls the united states supreme court, quote, totally incompetent and weak because they don't go along with dear leader donald's delusion and overturn the results of our democratic election. trump says since he falsely views the election as corrupt, the united states isn't even a country at all. it's dangerous and obvious what he is doing. his burn if dot down strategy, o fulfill his goal of destroying our democracy. the outgoing president was weakened -- has weakened the country by vetoing the defense bill, because it authorized the renaming of united states military bases named for traitorous con ffederate genera. he refused to sign the bill funding government and providing pandemic relief for struggling americans. instead, issuing demands that he waited to make until after the bill overwhelmingly passed congress and until it was assured the much needed supplemental unemployment benefits would lapse, which they did, nine hours ago. joining me now live from west palm beach florida, garrett hake. they will vote on a bill which that would increase payments from $600 to $2,000, but the government may shut down at midnight tomorrow because of trump's refusal to sign this. what are you hearing about what's happening? >> look, i think a government shutdown is between possible and lakely at th likely. nobody sees a clear way out unless the president reverses course and chooses to sign this bill, which is the combination of government funding for the next nine months or so and the covid relief beaill. i'm in palm beach. there's no indication he is doing that. he is doubling down on this idea of $2,000 payments. the way to think of this is probably one final showdown between congressional republicans and president trump. he has bent them to his will over the last four years. now you have got something in the $2,000 direct payments that i can think of maybe one senate republican would vote for, maybe josh hawley, who called for $1,200 payments. would mitch mcconnell put it on the floor? all that seems unlikely. mcconnell, as best i can tell, hasn't spoken with trump since this threat on tuesday. i see this shaping up as president trump essentially trying to punish congressional republicans for not being loyal enough to him and starting to force one last thing that they don't believe in down their throats. the possibility of a shutdown, just like the one two years ago where the president was dug in, ended with him getting nothing, we could stumble into this shutdown monday night if the president's not willing to sign the bill that exists now, if a cr can't be found to support the government, we could systemibtu into a shutdown that lasts until joe biden is president. that's what we are dealing with. there's no lever to move the president. when necessahe is in florida, ht off from the typical guardrails that exist at the white house. he is surrounded by people telling him he is doing a great job. it's hard to see what can change his mind at this point. sgli remembe >> you and i covered the last shutdown. there was no pandemic at the time. sickness wasn't the issue. it was devastating, because they couldn't make payments. they were losing houses and people were setting up go fund me pages to pay for their groceries. add that to a pandemic, and it is a bit of scorched earth policy. mitch mcconnell didn't agree to the bill passed in the house because he said he can't get enough people in his caucus to agree to the payments because they were worried about increasing the debt. they had trouble getting to $600. aside from josh hawley, as you mentioned, what about all the people who were worried about the debt, who think $600 is too much money to give to people? >> exactly right. this is my point. this is something that's going to pit everything coming out of the mouths of congressional republicans in the house and senate against their loyalty to donald trump. i'm thinking of ron johnson, who stood up on the senate floor multiple times to block the $1,200 payments and gave speeches about $1,200 payments would be mortgaging our children's future and we can't write blank checks. he is one of the most loyal supporters of president trump. what does he do if the president says we will shut the down government unless you vote for this $2,000? this is a mess. i can't see from my reporting, from my experience on capitol hill, a good, clean way out of this other than the president changing his mind, which seems unlikely he will do at this stage. >> thank you. if you hear of any developments, let us know. the government could shut down tomorrow night. that's one of the problems. the other is that a bunch of people with unemployment benefits ran out of them last night. garrett haake, in west palm beach florida. joining me is a congressman. a former special assistant attorney general in illinois who was appointed to start a public integrity unit. also with me, reporter with "the washington post," carol leonnig. her latest piece details the waning support for the outgoing president's election fight. let's start there. donald trump is so obsessed with this outgoing fight to keep power, to convince pennsylvania legislature to help him out, to convince people on january 6th in congress to not certify the electoral college, i guess he wasn't paying attention to this deal because he had his chief of staff mark me dadows in the dea. the people negotiating thought the they were talking for the president. >> i'm glad you focus on this. any white house worth its salt or any sense of planning or organization would have had a well-coordinated negotiating on behalf of white house and this importance to so many millions of americans, people who lost their benefits today. this is sort of a stunning revelation that the president either wasn't paying attention or the white house wasn't paying attention and all of a sudden aboutface, the man negotiating on behalf of the white house was misguided, steve mnuchin. stunning to think of. remember, this is of a piece with the trump administration of what we have seen for four years. the president focuses on what's most important to him at that moment. what was most important to him in the last few weeks was convincing people this was a rigged election, so that he could be serving a second term, or at minimum, convincing people that he was leaving actually the winner and too bad, the democracy didn't work, but i have to leave but it was unfair and stolen from me. that was the primary motivation that got the president up every morning and tweeting for weeks. now we're in this situation where the president appears to be engaged in a lot of sabotage against the government that he is supposed to run, sabotage against the relief bill, against the defense authorization act, sabotage against jobless benefits for a whole new category of people who who knows what will happen to them. >> congressman, some of the pardons look like sabotage against civil society and the law. usually at the end of a presidency, you see pardons. you scratch your head and say, that's interesting, i didn't know that person was in years for 75 years for shoplifting. this screen that i have up in front of me has three congressmen, four people who supported the president and didn't participate in the mueller investigation, four men convicted of murder in iraq, two border security guards who shot a mexican who was fleeing. this is not what pardons were built for. >> no, it's a rogue's gallery of unrepe unrepen unrepentant villains. it leads to chaos and lawlessness. i think that this is something that americans reject. i have written now two letters to the white house counsel. i think i should probably direct it to jared kushner who appears to be directing this pardon process. basically asking them, who and whether they are considering pre-emptive pardons for family members, including the president himself. that's probably the next shoe to drop at this point. if so, i want to know what crimes he is absolving these people of. because this pardon process is out of control. >> this becomes the question, carol. the president got close to his own family. he pardoned his son-in-law's father, charles kushner. i wonder, with 24 days, is he testing the water? is he softening everybody up for the idea that kushner is technically related to his son-in-law jared kushner. what does come next? there are 24 days left, and the president is not doing what he should be doing about coronavirus and the relief bill, but he is busy. >> absolutely. this is so fascinating to me, because as we reported in the book, the president began talking about the ability for him to pardon himself and his family members in the summer of 2017 when he was interviewing lawyers after the special counsel robert mueller was appointed. what he wanted to know was, can i pardon myself, my family members, which is a strange thing to ask when you are the president and you have only been the president for a few months. it's intriguing to me that he continues to say in tweets that he does have this absolute authority. basically, warning all of us it's possible he will try to do this. the precedent is fascinating. in the case of gerald ford pardoning nixon, he pardoned him in a very broadway for acts that could have been brought as criminal charges for any activities he took or steps he took as president. in this case, the president and his family could have some exposure for things that happened before they were in the white house or while their father-in-law was in the white house. that's something that would be really hard to create such a broad pardon for. >> congressman, what do you think will happen tomorrow? you are voting to veto -- override the veto on the national defense authorization act. you are voting to increase the $600 to $2,000. what happens? do republicans join you? does the senate join you in either or both of those two things? >> i'm not sure. the override as well as the increase in the stimulus payments will pass the house. quite frankly, as you know, the president delivered a huge lump of coal into the stocking of upwards of 14 million americans as of saturday night who are basically facing a lapse in unemployment benefits. restoring those benefits is job number one along with avoiding a government shutdown. however, the president has at least two other options in addition to signing the bill into law that we passed with an overwhelming bipartisan majority. one of the options is vetoing the stimulus package and spending bill, which would set up a potential other override vote. then secondly, doing nothing for the remainder of this year. if he did nothing, essentially, both of those measures, the spending package and the stimulus package would die in this congress. of course, would lead to another government shutdown. we all know what happened two years ago when that happened, which is millions of people suffered. and also, he suffered the political consequences at that point because there is no question that the government shutdown then and the one that would happen now would be at his feet, as well as the feet of the senators who are up for election in georgia and should be held accountable. >> unbelievable that we are still talking about this. we have 24 days left to go in this presidency. thanks to both of you. she was meant to be a glimmer of hope in an administration that did not believe in science. dr. birx ended up like the rest of trump's cronies. how she let us down. the dog's ? 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[ engine revs ] honey honey? new nyquil severe honey is maximum strength cold and flu medicine with soothing honey-licious taste. nyquil honey. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever best sleep with a cold medicine. xfiniwith the new hbo max app on xfinity. watch the greatest collection of shows, movies and new max originals. enjoy hbo favorites you know and love like game of thrones and the undoing... with exclusive max originals like the flight attendant... and blockbuster movies like dolittle. just say "hbo max" into your voice remote to sign into your hbo account or sign up. tv made simple, easy, awesome. i talk about expertise. i'm an expert about nothing except snack foods. but i'm big on expertise. which is why as i take stock of the last year, two of my biggest disappointments have been actual experts. the addition of the aids researcher dr. birx to the covid-19 task force was hailed as a positive step that stumbled fast. they counted on expertise to counter trump, she didn't. she praised trump for implementing china restrictions. testing was the thing every legitimate expert recommended. she praised the trump's ability to analyze and integrate data. suggesting he was, quote, attentive to the scientific literature. donald trump is as attentive to scientific literature as i am to a ads for men's hair products. she was had the veneer of legitimacy. we expected she would work in the interest of science and the american people. you can't do that and lie about how smart trump is at the same time. when he asked her about injecting sunlight, it was time to call him out or leave. she did neither. she may have fooled some people, dr. scott atlas only ever fooled trump and h trump. he has as much experience in immunology and epidemiology as i have. if covid were a neuroradiological appointment, maybe his appointment would have made sense. he suggested children have virtually zero risk of dying from covid. calling for non-sympathetic people to not be tested, expressing skepticism about masks, advocating for herd immunity and opposing funding for testing. he seemed to epitomize the idea that when we thousand thight th wouldn't get worse, someone shouted, wait, hold my beer. you would be angry if you think back to those who we saw at holiday parties and dinners, those for whom we sent holiday cards. one in every 1,000 of our fellow citizens is dead from a virus the president said was under control and would disappear, go down to zero, almost ten months ago. our president was weak. as weak people do, he surrounded himself with other weak people. that's our past. what matters is that you were not weak. the country wasn't weak. try and tested by a virus and by police brutality and by lies and by a continuie ining coup attem you prevailed. the price is high but you won. as we turn toward a very different and unfamiliar looking new year's eve, we do so with optimism. as the author and columnist bill vaughn 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happened. tell your doctor about dental problems, as severe jaw bone problems may happen. or new or unusual pain in your hip, groin, or thigh, as unusual thigh bone fractures have occurred. speak to your doctor before stopping, skipping or delaying prolia®, as spine and other bone fractures have occurred. prolia® can cause serious side effects, like low blood calcium, serious infections, which could need hospitalization, skin problems, and severe bone, joint, or muscle pain. don't wait for a break, call your doctor today, and ask about prolia®. the outgoing president has been vacationing in florida, rage tweeting about the election he lost while the pandemic continues to ravage the country and federal unemployment programs expired last night. next up, a federal government shutdown that could start in 37 hours if the president fails to sign the bill. millions of americans are counting on relief to stay afloat, to keep food on the table. it was considered a done deal before trump's refusal to sign it. he wants to more than triple the proposed $600 relief checks. the moratorium of evictions will expire at the end of the month. also on the line, food stamps. $13 billion in the new coronavirus aid bill is expected to feed food insecure economy. joining me to talk about the deadlines and what it means to miss even one of them, heather long, economic correspondent at "the washington post," and andre perry, an author of "know your price." heather, you have been writing about this for the last few days. you have talked about a number of people somewhere between 10 and 14 million people who either lost their benefits last night or will continue to over the course of the next few days. if you are food insecure, housing insecure, without an income, this may end up being the worst week of your year. >> yeah. there's real consequences to what are going on. i think about brandon harvey i talked to outside of atlanta. he said he was researching shelters for his family to go to because they are behind on rent. they have run out of money. their unemployment ended. they think afs ears of early ja they will be evicted. his message and the message i heard over and over talking to unemployed people is, it would be nice to get that $2,000 check instead of $600. but what they wanted was quick action, pass something soon. >> andre, let's talk about the effect this has had. you and i would have conversations on this show prior to the pandemic having this affect on people, and we were talking about inequality and talking about how the richest country in the world has so many poor people and how housing insecure people are. all of that has been exacerbated. we did have a chance months ago to sort of fix these things for the long-term. not only did we not take that, but we made that worse. i suspect your research indicates we will pay the price for this for decades to come. >> heather hit the nail on the head, there's real consequences to this. we are still in a pandemic. when we were talking about stopping the moratorium on evictions, know that there are landlords who have been waiting for this opportunity, looking for the opportunity to evict people, putting people at risk and the country at risk for increased spread, which will hurt the economy. certainly, i want to see $2,000 in people's wallets. but to do nothing, it's to contradict that need for more money. president trump had a month to work with senators, to work with house reps, to really iron out a bill that made sense to him. but he did not. to act as if he is going to then work with them in these final hours is just ridiculous. i just want to remind viewers that the consequences of unemployment and homelessness are things like suicide, death, spread of disease. this is not something to be taken lightly. this is really an abdication of responsibility. clearly, he has not shown for the moral rectitude. for me, this is -- we're in a dire situation. >> heather, you have been -- you are a chronicler of this thing happening in america. we are showing pictures on the screen. food lineups. there was a line in dallas before thanksgiving that had thousands of people in cars lined up. we are showing people lined up for food. this is -- andre's point is that this is not just technical stuff in a bill. these are people's lives. in your story, you were talking to actual people who are literally worried about not having a place to stay on january 1st. we spoke to a guy in atlanta last week who is looking for a car because he believes he will not be able to pay his rent and he needs a car he and his mother can be able to sleep in. there's zero reason for this to happen. >> exactly. i think about a diner waitress i was speaking to in chicago. she said, i have been working at a diner for 18 years. very hard job, as many people know. very low paid. she said, i have taken one day off when my husband died. other than that, i have been there. to sit here and watch congress go home, watch the president fly to florida, sort of just leave this up in the air, so many millions of people's lives, it was flabbergasting to her and to many others that i spoke to. i think it's particularly frustrating, too, not only are we a rich country that should solve this, but we are making the same mistakes we made before, in the first stimulus package, the aid didn't go long enough, it ended in july and august and that's why we are sitting here with more people in poverty, with more people about to be evicted. now we have another bill that we can't get through. even if we do get it through, the aid ends in march, when the pandemic is still going to be going on. we just keep making the same mistakes over and over. it's really frustrating to watch that from congress and the president. >> andre, a lot of people are very frustrated. they would like the $2,000, but senators -- republican senators had said, we can't have the debt go up and we can't encourage people to stay home. people who are home are home for a reason and to save their lives. do you have a sense that once we have a new administration, they will try and fix these thingshe? there are countries north of us in canada, over across the ocean in europe, where they are doing better. they are doing the right things by people's income and health care and being able to protect them economically. >> clearly, the biden 5d minu n administration will try to do something. i just want to remind viewers, that with every week that passes, there's more people at risk for exposure to covid, more people becoming unemployed, not being able to pay rent, not being able to put food on the table. we know by not signing this bill, folks who have received that federal extension of $300 will not get it. that's $300 lost. for anyone who has children and remember we are just passing christmas. if you bought a game, if you bought food, you needed that $300. every day we wait is another day people are going hungry. certainly, we should be hopeful for a new administration. but a month can go by and people are suffering in real ways. as much as i like to get wonky and talk about particular aspects of the bill, this inaction is just incomprehensible, what can happen. food lines, death, suffering, we don't have to do this. >> the three of us live in a world of numbers and economics. this has long passed that point. this is -- in doing our work, in reporting our stories, we are seen people fallen between the cracks who are falling through for no good reason whatsoever. it would be one thing if we were a poor country, if we were broke. we are not. there's no reason for this. thank you for the work you do to make us understand how important it is to protect our fellow citizens. 2 million people have cost their vote in george georgeia's election. the late is next. te is next just pick your protein, select your doneness, and let the grill monitor your food. it also turns into an air fryer. bring outdoor grilling flavors indoors with the grill that grills for you. unstopables in-wash scent booster downy unstopables bundle auto and home, and save up to 25% with allstate. bundling just feels good this time of year. saving is easy when you're in good hands. call a local agent, or 1-800-allstate for a quote today. nine days, that's how close to the georgia senate runoff that could tip the scales in favor of the democrats and win them control of the united states senate. they are in the last stretch of their campaigns. republican incumbents' seats are threatened. data shows over 2 million people have voted in the runoff already. 4 million people voted early in the state during november's presidential election. joining me with the latest is janelle ross. draw us a picture of what's going on. this is on january 5th. we have seen a lot of turnout. i have seen studies that indicate there are republicans and democrats turning out, 76,000 new voters who were not registered in the election. put that into your pot and tell me what comes out. >> i think it's, of course, impossible to make a real prediction. there are a lot of variables here. there are things that people assume or have felt that have been long known about runoff elections, which is that turnout tends to be lower than general elections. republicans tend to turn out in greater numbers for runoffs than the democratic voter base. that said, i think there's plenty of indication that none of that will hold true here in georgia. in part, because of the nature of this particular race. obviously, control for the senate is up for grabs. i don't think that there could be more done to try to make the stakes clearer to voters. i was at a campaign rally where i bumped into a woman who was selling t-shirts that literally said, georgia saved america. that's her prediction for the outcome of this election. i think that the stakes are very clear. i think there are a lot of people who might not be your typical runoff voter who are planning to participate or have done so. in addition to that, this is a runoff election that is happening in the midst of a pandemic. you are seeing some really innovative ways of campaigning and trying to reach voters. this is car country. everyone knows that about atlanta. in a place that is rich with cars, it's also rich with very large parking lots. you are seeing all of the candidates hold all sorts of events outdoors in parking lots. i would say the parking lot is probably the biggest fixture of the georgia senate runoff election. >> this is -- there's a lot of money going to this election. i was in georgia last weekend. it was political ads. $106 million and $102.4 million and $68 million and $64 million for them. is that going to be what does this in the end? everybody is putting money into this election because everybody in the rest of the country understands how important it is. >> there's a tremendous amount of money that has flowed into this election. millions of dollars since october alone. it is without question, money will make a difference, how that money is used is probably really going to be definitive. this is, as they say, a turnout race. i don't think either of the parties are expecting they will be able to persuade a lot of voters to cross lines. the key is to get your base and any new voters that you can to come out and participate. at the same time, there are very interesting things happening with all of the money floating around in this race. some people might argue misleading campaign being funded by outside groups to discourage or encourage voting, depending on your point of view. without question, that money will be definitive. but how it's used is probably -- when we look back, it will be what actually determined who won. >> january 5th is that runoff. january 6th, i believe. is it 5th or 6th? >> the 5th. >> we will have full coverage here on msnbc. thanks, as always. a new stimulus bill means a new round of paycheck protection loans. the last time was a disaster for small businesses. most of the money didn't go to them. how you as a small business oowr can get in on the upcoming loans, if that bill ever gets passed. ng loans, if that bill ever gets passed (coughing) hi susan! honey? yeah? i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this new robitussin honey severe. the real honey you love... plus, the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? new robitussin honey severe. strong relief for your severe symptoms. don't settle for silver #1 for diabetic dry skin* #1 for psoriasis symptom relief* and #1 for eczema symptom relief* gold bond champion your skin gold bond want to eliminate odors without heavy, overwhelming scents? we get it. introducing febreze light. it eliminates odors... with no heavy perfumes... in light scents you'll love. new febreze light. millions of people are facing hunger, desperation and the closing of their businesses as they await a relief bill that donald trump refused to sign after it passed with both chambers of support. both of that is paycheck protection loans which could help businesses stay afloat. since the election, i have been traveling across the country talking to small businessowners and workers, asking them about the challenges of trying to keep their businesses alive amid the pandemic and whether the resources offered by the government, like the ppp have helped. unfortunately many have said that applying for and receiving those loans the first time was not easy. according to government data more than half of the money from the paycheck protection plan went to just 5% of the businesses. in other words, almost 600 large companies including national chains got the maximum $10 million in ppp loans. so what can actual small businesses now do to ensure that they get their fair share of the next round of ppp funding? i'm joined by income magazine editor at large and small business expert kimberly wisel who has joined me for many weeks when i have been traveling around and talking to small businesses. in almost every case the small businesses i talk to some of them got money, some of them didn't but they certainly were not well versed in how you do this sort of thing because as you know most businesses are well versed at whatever they do for a business, if they are a baker, they're good at baking, if they are a coffee shop they're good at making coffee and serving their customers. this business of filling out government forms on a deadline and competing with well funded companies that have accountants and lawyers are not in most people's arsenal. >> no, it absolutely is not what small business owners are good at. it's not the reason that they went into business in the first place and it's been a real challenge. you've talked a lot, we've talked a lot about how some of the largest companies got the majority of these loans. the other problem was that the smallest companies did not. that's not really the same problem because when the first round of paycheck protection program loans closed there was more than $130 billion that went unspoken for because small business owners didn't really understand if the loans would be good for them and how they could get it. the chambers of commerce that represents asian-american and pacific islander businesses said that 60% of the business owners that they surveyed from their membership who didn't get a loan said that they didn't apply for it because they didn't think they were eligible. as we know almost everybody was eligible for these the first time around. so there is really a lot of education that needs to be done. >> for a lot of these businesses i spoke to they were really worried about the fact that if business is not -- i was -- when i was at the pine ridge reservation, the woman who owned the movie theater said we may not open until march or april or it might be later by the time everybody is vaccinated, i don't know what i'd do with another loan because i don't know how i'm ever going to get money to pay it back. >> so what's different about the paycheck protection program and why it has been so popular is that if you use at least 60% of the money for payroll and 40% for other approved expenses, then the loan gets forgiven. so you don't have to worry about paying the loan back if you use it mainly for payroll and then for these other things. and these other things can include things like, you know, dental insurance for your employees or plexiglas that you bought to keep people safe or, you know, extra tables for outdoor dining. there is a lot in there. so what people need to know is that if they can show that their business has been hurt by the pandemic, if they can show that their revenues went down 25% in a quarter compared to the same quarter last year and they have fewer than 300 employees, which is a change, they are most likely eligible for this and if they use it for payroll they can get it forgiven. so that is what is so different and so attractive about this particular program. >> is this going to be a time limited thing? are you going to have to race to get into the head of the line or is it an amount of money that will determine whether you get your loan? >> you know, judging by the last time, which, again, we don't know if it will be the same, it looked like a race and then it turned out there was plenty of time and plenty of money. that being said, if you think that this loan is appropriate for you and you think that you qualify, you should definitely start working on the paperwork now. there's not that much of it, of course, we don't have an official application because the bill hasn't passed, but you can download the application from last time, you can start talking to your bank about what they're going to see and you can start pulling your records both for payroll and for your gross revenues so that you can be prepared when this officially swings into action. >> what is your -- your one piece of advice for folks, the people that you know of and the ones who i talked to, many of whom are really small businesses. sometimes they are, you know, a few employees and they just -- it's everything they can do to file their tax return at the end of the year. this is not what is common to them. what do you recommend people do? >> so there's a couple of things. one is the sba runs a program called score, which i've spoken about before, which is a free mentorship and advice program for small businesses. they have outlets all across the country. of course now you're going to have to call, you are not going to be able to walk into an office and wait for someone to get back to you. so i would recommend that. i would also recommend if you don't have a relationship with a banker, think about getting one of these loans through a paypal or a square or cabbage. they made a lot of loans last night around, you fill it out online, it is not that hard. i know it's not what business owners want to be doing, but you will be surprised when you look at the application, it's not as bad as you think. >> kim, you always have great specific useful advice for our viewers. many of whom are small business owners, many of whom work for small businesses and many of whom as we discussed last week want to go out and support small businesses, which i've taken that guidance. i have decided that i don't need everything shipped to me tomorrow, i will go, i will find t i will take longer shipping, i might even pay for that shipping if it's a small business that can't afford to pay for it for me because i want those businesses to stay alive. we will do what we need to do to try to support our fellow americans who are in business. kim wisel is the editor at large for inc. magazine. that does it for me. thank you for watching "velshi." catch me saturday and sunday mornings from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. eastern. coming up next jonathan capehart has an exclusive interview with the incoming senator from california, alex padilla, the first latino senator in the state's history. 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