Well have a lot more on how the case is proceeding legally later in the show. We want to begin by talking about how americans have been reacting to the shooting in ferguson and to the protests that have followed. The New York Times poll this week, americans appear evenly divided on the Police Response to the protests. 32 of those surveyed said the officers went too far. 33 about the same number believe the Police Response has been about right. 15 say police did not go far enough. In contrast, 59 of those surveyed believe the protesters actions went too far. 20 feel they were just about right. 7 say they didnt go far enough. Finally, when it comes to the investigation by local authorities into the shooting of Michael Brown, 56 , a majority, have confidence it will be conducted fairly, while 34 dont share that confidence. Joining me now to discuss ferguson, and other big stories, we have john stanton the Washington Bureau chief for buzz feed and political strategist joy williams and those are the headline numbers. But i think the other headline that goes hand in hand with it is a clear racial divide on these questions. The country, that suggests agreement there but the real story in the numbers is when you ask do you think officer wilson used Excessive Force i think the number was 55 among africanamericans and 11 among whites. That was the biggest one i saw. There was a whole bunch of us so that really seems to be the story, really two different stories have made it out there. Yeah. I think its reflective of different personal experiences with the police. When you talk with white people in the u. S. About their own and family members experiences with the police they havent generally had experiences of feeling mistreated and like they were being systematically unable to trust the police. Its this gut level reaction to trust Police Officers who have made good decisions about these sorts of things. You ask white people and theyre more likely to say yes than if you ask black people and that drives the big poll difference and the whole difference in perception about whether people in ferguson are reasonably upset about something. Well, yeah. I dont know if it was a New York Times cbs poll. There was another poll i saw this week basically asking, have you had an encounter with police where you felt the police treated you unfairly . I think among blacks it was like 60 yes. Among whites it was 7 . Seven people probably. A margin error of plus or minus four points as well. Yes. To your point that is exactly right. What these incidents and sort of what this tragic incident of a young man losing his life through, you know, i say murder, right, is the it kind of shows nationwide, again, this problem, this different view that different people have based on race of how they are treated in this country. And particularly what enrages me and i use that word very carefully but it is very accurate about the response has been the sort of over use of the Police Officers against people peacefully protesting and how for africanamericans when we protest, when we do anything, were all lumped together. Right . There is no separation. So the protesters then become looters and everyone is looting. Everyone is committing violence. There is no separation. When you see that poll number, did the protesters go too far, do you think those things are being merged . Absolutely. Right . Because then there is no reasonable response to this tragedy happening, oh, if one violent act is committed, if someone, you know, or a handful of people out of thousands of people break into a store, it now becomes oh, those protesters. And, you know, to separate that out, people dont do that. Even the News Coverage of that sort of lumps it up together. It doesnt separate out that there are individuals taking advantage of the situation, but in the larger context these are people in this community protesting a violent act that was committed against an unarmed citizen. Part of the thing is this is a post 9 11 situation. If you look right now its interesting were going back into this security situation with isis and the country is sort of retrenching. I think the White Community has long been much more comfortable with the idea of having a police state especially sort of after 9 11. You saw it in how people talked about the Surveillance Systems and the federal government operating and it was a much harder push to this sort of, okay, look. Were fine with having the police on the streets whereas in minority communities it has always been sort of a thing people dont like although the one thing in this poll, the one place where there seemed to be a pretty good overlap black and white was on the question militarization of police i found out the police force in my hometown in massachusetts, 10,000 people, has two m16s. Grenade launchers in another Police Department in massachusetts. I saw that this week too. I think people are looking at that. In this poll it showed blacks and whites in almost equal numbers were bothered by that. I think its been sort of the politically safe place for National Politicians to jump in. Everybody sort of looks at this and says, gee. I dont understand why they need a tank. But i think that actually sort of gets at the racial divide because people can look at this and say, this militarization is over the top and should be rolled back but the negative interactions that africanamericans are having with the police are not mostly about the police having tanks and gas masks. This is an unusual situation. I think the bigger and more important question is about ordinary, every day policing, and whether that is being done in a racially just way. I think thats where the huge gap remains. Im hopeful that we will see positive federal change on the Police Militarization stuff. Maybe the federal government will stop giving surplus tanks to Police Departments. Maybe we can get police to stop dressing in camouflage. But i think the every day policing part is a much tougher nut to crack because i think there is a real failure to communicate. Thats the point sort of in bringing to the Larger Movement in terms of what civil rights organizations and other activists across the country are sort of taking this moment to be, you know, weve been talking about this for years. You know, the interaction that local Law Enforcement have with communities of color across the country and how our communities are over policed. The Excessive Force used. Were using this moment to highlight that and there are demands from i think about 13 civil rights organizations signed on to a statement with requests asking for the Justice Department to do an investigation across the country, about the use of Excessive Force particularly among unarmed africanamericans, asking for sort of a systematic way in how these cases, like what happened in ferguson, are treated. So when theyre taken out of the hands of local prosecutors and sort of prosecuted from the Justice Department, so there are all of these something that weve been talking about for years, and so now being able to take this moment and use that. I agree with you that we, you know, cant let people off the hook including democrats, including because a state run by a democratic governor that we cant let people off the hook and just have them focus on the militarization of the police. Its larger than that. You know, the larger issue is how Law Enforcement deals with africanamericans and not seeing all of us as criminals. Right. There is a Major National political figure speaking out in ferguson as well as another pressing National Issue right now, kentucky senator rand paul. An eye doctor by training. Hes on a medical mission to guatemala this week to perform pro bono eye surgery. The republican president ial hopeful had this to say about secretary of state, former secretary of state Hillary Clintons recent comments on Foreign Policy. If you want to see a transformational election in our country, let the democrats put forward a warhawk like Hillary Clinton and youll see a transformation like youve never seen. Rand paul speaking from guatemala. The full interview is on meet the press tomorrow and this is transitioning to the other things this week. So last week the news was sort of about Hillary Clinton maybe distancing herself a little bit from the Obama Administration on Foreign Policy. The idea of dont do stupid stuff is not a global vision. Now you have rand paul basically saying if she is sending sort of hawkish signals on the democratic side, maybe theres room for me potentially. Thats what im hearing in this interview is there is room for me to maybe get intervention, transition from people on the left into my camp. Foreign policy is one area where he has struggled. Hes gone back and forth. Last week, does he support taking all of israels funding, does he not support it . He said yes, then he said no, then maybe. Read everything in context. Now this where he seems to be moving back toward more of an isolationist position. Its been interesting that people thought this was going to be one of his strongest areas going into this election and right now he seems to be struggling with a way to figure out how to define himself. Maybe he is hoping hill tri does that for him without having to figure it out on his own. Is there room for that . Is it realistic for a guy like rand paul to think i could pick off people who have been voting democratic because of Foreign Policy . I think yeah, policy. There are some people on the left who the issue they care most deeply about is Foreign Policy. They were very upset about the Bush Administration sort of misadventures and would like someone to not get us involved in foreign wars. I think theres distrust of hillary on that. I think its also one of the issues where the electorate has the weakest point of view. The electorate can be swung from a very pro war position to a very antiwar position within a number of years in a way that people dont move on the economy and on social issues. So i think part of the reason that rand paul has been tentative is that we dont know where the electorate is going to stand going into 20152016. I think over the last couple years people have been very hesitant toward intervention but you could have another attack on u. S. Soil that could swing opinions right back again. So i think, and i think all the candidates or many of the candidates are doing this to an extent trying to keep their options open so they can be more hawkish or dovish. Thats what ive been wondering about with isis. The way isis is being talked up now even by thiS Administration and well have more on this later in the show but the idea that this is a threat beyond something weve seen from al qaeda. This is something thats bigger in scope potentially than al qaeda. Really talking about as an extensional threat. You look at the video, does that move people and say we dont want another iraq and they say we dont want another 9 11. Clearly, Foreign Policy issues is one instance where you can show clear differences between Hillary Clinton and sort of any other candidate in either the primary or in, you know, because most people argue everybody starts to sound the same and kind of everybody, you know, they cant choose but sort of Foreign Policy is the one issue in which there are clear differences in terms of ideology of Hillary Clinton and any other folks who may be in the race. Additionally, rand paul, you know, obviously running toward that type has some, you know, where people on the left may agree with him on some social issues, right, so they may, you know, i agree with you on some social issues, now youre talking my language on this Foreign Policy thing. Im more likely to listen to, you know, what you have to say and may consider you as an option. But whether or not someone, you know, clearly, solidly is on the left sort of makes a transition and moves to rand paul, that remains to be seen. We have a few more things in the news this week to get to including one about rick perry. Well pick it up as soon as we come back. You see everyone in america almost every day, you notice a few things. Like the fact that youre pretty attached to these. Ok, really attached. And thats alright. Because well text you when your package is on the way. Were even expanding sunday package delivery. Yes, sunday. At the u. S. Postal service, our priority is. Was. And always will be. You. Our priority is. Was. Whi, hows it going . Whatever youre looking for, start by testdriving nearly every make and model all in one place. Carmax. Start here. Ive never seen swanything so soft tness. Charmin take a closer look at charmin ultra soft and youll love what you see. Not only can you use less, but you can actually see the softness in our comfort cushions. Plus charmin ultra soft is so much more absorbent you can use up to four times less. What are you boys looking at . My main squeeze. Rotorooter approved. Charmin is clogfree or its free. All right. The next class of president ial candidates may want to layoff criticizing president obamas vacation now. David axelrod who is one of the architects of president obamas campaign is expressing regret about democrats bashing president george w. Bush for his vacations as president. He told the New York Daily News quote we used to pillary george bush for going to his ranch and we were wrong. He also said the demands and pressures of the presidency are relentless. We ought to warn our president s to get small breaks to relax, even in and maybe especially in the midst of crisis. This week president obama is under fire from some for hitting the golf course immediately after addressing reporters about the horrific death of james foley. Lets talk about this. First of all, good for david axelrod. This is the thing. Even before the, all of the complaints about president obama and his vacations, this has driven me nuts for decades since i started watching bill clinton go to Marthas Vineyard in the 1990s. All the talk about the time he is taking off and the democrats, i just wish both parties, the National Chair of each party would come together and say were going to stop complaining about vacations because its stupid. So good for axelrod. It is probably naive to think it will lead to something. I am so tired of this one. Narrator this case this week though hes, i dont know, it seems like he shows very little emotion most of the time. He is very stoic. He gets up and talks about james foaly and didnt seem he seemed upset but not that upset. Then you see him a couple hours later on the golf course laughing with a lot of emotion hanging out with celebrities. And at a minimum it seems like its a tone deafness that has been a problem for thiS Administration throughout. I think that is true for any, i can imagine a big White House Communications office or whatever simply getting, hey, you just gave this incredibly solemn speech on this horrible occasion and there are going to be photographers here at the golf course. Maybe you shountd do that today because it will send the wrong message. Its part of being president but practically speaking i dont know it means anything. There are two separate things. One is the general case of president ial vacations. This goes back i believe at least to Dwight Eisenhower the sniping about is the president lazy . I think well have, when we have a republican president well have republicans saying, gee, we shouldnt have sniped at obama so much over his vacations and democrats will be right back at it complaining about whatever that one does. I actually thought this was tone deaf for a different reason. I thought his remarks seemed very impassioned and upset. I thought he seemed really angry and personally affected. Thats why it was weird to then see the shots on the golf course right after like nothing had happened. Now i suspect what it is, is none of us know what its like to be president and there are a lot of emotionally intense things one does as president. Its a lot of responsibility. You need to develop an ability to detach from that. I think president obama probably more than any of us can do is good at doing something that is extremely distressing one second and then going and being on the golf course the next. It still looks weird from the outside. Yes. I dont know what its like to be president. I dont know what its like to golf. But i think about it and i think of that, weve seen those videos of obama occasionally in the spring and summer where he wants to escape the bubble. Hes on the national mall, going into dego to chipotle or something. So a golf course, youre in the middle of the woods, unspoiled acreage, trees, grass. And you know what . If youre a president , its not necessarily a good time for you but a time when you can focus your thinking, get away. I can see that being therapeutic in a positive sense. Yeah. I recognize your point in terms of certainly in the emotional people seem to have a real focus on the obamas emotional display over the last couple years and particularly over the last week and a half with whats been going on in ferguson, feeling the same way, wanting him to demonstrate emotion as well. But i think to this question of vacation, i think its just going to be in the cycle of continuing to criticize, is it too much or too little . Something that always happens. But to your point in being able to disconnect, you can look at the president from when he was first elected to now. Just the level of white hair that he has now and the amount of stress. Thats just, just think about what we know he deals with on a daily basis and not the things that we dont know. Then we look at yourself individually when, you know, we cant wait until friday to get out of an office and be able to escape that. I dont think we want a president that is sort of on all the time because when does he then have time to repair and break and think and reflect. So i dont necessarily put a lot of stock in because cameras will be there to show him laughing that becomes problematic overall. I think you need the time to disconnect to put in perspective so whether that is going to chipotle or being on a golf course there is the bigger issue of golfing and the smaller issue of the photographing. I bet the white house if they had to do it over would say lets not give them this photograph. Its going to cause problems. Anyway. Speaking of getaways, a segue here, less than 72 hours after being booked on two felony counts Texas Governor rick perry went to New Hampshire where he unofficially campaigned for president. The lone star states longest serving governor shrugged off abuse of power charges and so did the local republicans. About four dozen Business Leaders caught up with perry in his first visit to the first in the nation primary state. His first visit to that state since finishing sixth there in 2012 when he received less than 1 of the vote. It should be noted that days before his indictment last week perry also visited the iowa state fair. Its full steam ahead for rick perrys president ial campaign. The joke is that by being indicted his odds went from zero percent to zero percent with the president ial nomination. At the same time i continue to wonder about were trained to say, you know, the indictment politician must be doomed. The same way we used to be trained to say impeachment must be doomed and the bill clinton thing came along. I am still very skeptical. I think its helping him frankly. It looks like he is raising money off it. Republicans are looking at him like oh, the democrats hate him. Maybe we should take another look at the guy we all sort of wrote off after his, couldnt remember, you know, three things on his mind. Its turned out to be a net positive at least in the short term for him. I think it helps that the indictment looks fairly silly and you have a lot of National Liberal commentators looking at the indictment and saying it looks silly. Basically he got indicted. This da who had been giving him a lot of trouble got arrested for being very drunk, three times the legal limit, there is video of her being belligerent. He threatened to veto funds for her office if she didnt resign. You know, probably yeah he wanted her out because she was a thorn in his side politically investigating people in his office but on the other hand its fundamentally a political dispute. There was an a political officer in the state who got in trouble with the law and he pressured her to resign. It seems like a very strange thing to end up in the courts. It puts him in a very good position to say this was politically motivated. Democrats are going after me. It gives him something to relate to people and i strongly suspect he is not going to be convicted of anything. I think it puts him in a better position to raise money so he can be in the president ial race for all of us to laugh at. Everybody wins. Up next, democrats running on not away from Health Care Reform. Will it work in the deep red south . Thats next. You know, millions of people have saved with progressive, so i get invited to quite a few family gatherings. Heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multicar, paperless. You make a mighty fine missus, mlady. Im not saying marks thrifty. Lets just say, i saved him 519, and it certainly didnt go toward that ring. Am i right . [ laughs ] [ dance music playing ] so visit progressive. Com today. I call this one the robox. Let that phrase sit with you for a second. Unlimited. As in, no limits on your hardearned cash back. As in no more dealing with those rotating categories. The quicksilver card from capital one. Unlimited 1. 5 cash back on everything you purchase, every day. Dont settle for anything less. Ill keep asking. Whats in your wallet . Im jeff and i have copd. Ill keep asking. Im lisa and i have copd, but i dont want my breathing problems to get in the way of hosting my book club. Thats why i asked my doctor about breo. Oncedaily breo ellipta helps increase airflow from the lungs for a full 24 hours. And breo helps reduce symptom flareups that last several days and require oral steroids, antibiotics, or hospital stay. Breo is not for asthma. Breo contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. It is not known if this risk is increased in copd. Breo wont replace rescue inhalers for sudden copd symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. Breo may increase your risk of pneumonia, thrush, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking breo. Ask your doctor about breo for copd. First prescription free at mybreo. Com hey pal . You ready . Can you pick me up at 6 30 . Ah. boy im here im here cop too late. I was gone for five minutes ugh move it. Youre killing me. You know what, dad . Im good. dad it may be quite a while before hes ready, but our Subaru Legacy will be waiting for him. vo the longestlasting midsize sedan in its class. Introducing the allnew Subaru Legacy. Its not just a sedan. Its a subaru. Among the president s many fiscally irresponsible policies obama care stands out as one of the worst offenders. This law is flawed and unworkable. Obama care has got to go and be replaced by Patient Centered Health Care Reform. It is no secret many republicans have used obama care as a rallying cry this Election Year trying to link democrats to a law that overall remains unpopular. Theyre hoping to replicate what they pulled off in 2010 when they swept to Massive Gains after the law was enacted. It helped the gop defeat senator Blanche Lincoln in 2010. Defeat is putting it mildly. She lost by 22 points that year. Lincoln had voted for the Affordable Care act. She voted for obama care. You might expect that mark pryor the states other democratic other senator excuse me a democrat running for reelection this year might expect him to keep as much distance as possible from obama care which is why this new ad he is running got a lot of attention this week. No one should be fighting an Insurance Company while fight forgue your life. Thats why i helped pass a law that prevents Insurance Companies from canceling your policy if you get sick or deny coverage for preexisting conditions the new ad is getting plenty of air time. It did not come cheap. According to the Washington Post he spent six figures on that ad buy. Youll notice that in the ad pryor never says the president s name and never actually calls the law obama care or the Affordable Care act but, still, this is a significant moment. Arkansas has become a very red state in national elections. Pryor is among the most vulnerable democratic incumbents running this year. He announced he sees the act as partly an asset and not a liability sets up a test. Now that the law is implemented are the politics of obama care changing especially in red state america . Is pryor creating a template here that other vulnerable democrats might turn to as the party fights to hang on to the senate this fall . Here to discuss this is david ramsey the associate editor of the arkansas times. David, thanks for joining us. I want to set this up by showing a couple statistics here. Since the decline in the rate of uninsurance in number states between 2013 and 2014, you can see arkansas is doing the best of any of these states on the list. This is basically showing how the implementation of the Affordable Care act, expansion of medicaid is going. Arkansas is right there, the uninsured rate basically dropping in half in just one year. Just statistically when you look at it that way youd say this law seems to be doing something right for the state of arkansas. I wonder if in arkansas that has changed the way people think about obama care, about the term the Affordable Care act. Do they make the connection and say this is the Affordable Care act doing this or do these things remain disconnected to peoples minds . Well, i think what you see in arkansas is probably what you see in a lot of places nationally which is obama care, itself, remains incredibly unpopular in the state but some of the Component Parts of the law are more popular. You know, in arkansas as you mentioned, the percentage of uninsured citizens has dropped about in half. And thats largely because of the private option version of Medicaid Expansion in the state by which around 200,000 arkansans have gained coverage. If you focus on Something Like that, people are a little more open minded. If you say obama care, thats the worst possible thing. I think part of what youre seeing, you know, pryor is basically beginning to talk about what the law does but meticulously avoiding naming it. And weve got we showed another poll here. Its interesting. Kaiser has been doing this monthly tracking poll on the implementation of obama care and if it is changing attitudes. The most recent numbers for july show the unfavorable views of obama care, Affordable Care act now jumping up to 53 . The favorable reviews down to 37 . That speaks to your point about just the name whether the Affordable Care act or obama care still testing unpopular. Let me ask you. Think ahead. You see how mark pryor is addressing this issue talking about the benefits of the law. The benefits of the law are popular in arkansas. He is touting those. Lets say it as debate this fall with tom cotton his republican opponent and mark pryor. That is what mark pryor talks about and tom cotton comes back and says im going to repeal that boondoggle of obama care, free you from the burden of obama care. Since these things seem to exist on different plains which is a stronger message . Do you know . I think thats the big question. One of the most interesting things about the pryor ad was cottons response. Actually was at a press conference cotton did the very next day. Asked him about it. He said he hadnt seen the ad and had a very muted kind of response and basically what youre seeing is as you say, you know, we talked about pryor wants to avoid naming the law. He wants to avoid saying obama care. But he is beginning to talk about what the law actually does. Cotton on the other hand says obama care over and over. Sometimes ten, 12 times a minute. But when asked about some of the details of what repeal would mean, thats where he sort of avoids talking about it. So the question is, whats more potent, the name or the laws Component Parts . I think that will be the sort of debate Going Forward and its hard to say what will win out. You started to touch on it there. This is the other advantage democrats think they have now that the law is being implemented. They take somebody like tom cotton who rails against obama care and the Affordable Care act in a state where medicare expansion has taken place. All of these arkansans who have Health Coverage now who didnt before. When the question is put to tom cotton would you repeal that, would you take away the coverage that these people now have what is he saying to that . He really wont answer. I mean, basically, ive asked him about the private option directly a number of times. He wont take, and again, that is the sort of privatized version of Medicaid Expansion somewhat unique to arkansas. He wont take a position on the private option itself. I asked him on thursday at the press conference, you know, basically what he says is if you ask him anything about health care he says, we need to repeal obama care. Start over and make it right. And i asked, does making it right include funding for covering these 200,000 arkansans that would lose their coverage if the Affordable Care act was repealed . He really doesnt have a direct response. So you have, you know, basically i think what the way that cotton is trying to play this, he doesnt really want to talk specifically about, you know, what happens to some of the benefits if the Affordable Care act goes away. He just wants arkansans to know he is against obama care. David, very quickly, the state of this race, because the control of the senate is so key here for both parties and this race could end up being one that decides it. Early on mark pryor seemed to be defying gravity leading in the polls. If you look at the polling average up on the screen now the most recent numbers that have come in have put cotton up by a few points. What is your sense of where this race is right now . The safest thing to say is that it is very close. I think there is going to be a get out the vote kind of competition between the two of them. The thing to keep in mind in a close race in arkansas, you know, the state is reddening so there is the possibility that people that are identifying as independents will end up voting for the republicans. Thats a built in advantage for cotton. The question is basically whether sort of pryor can rally the base and whether pryor can use some of his advantage sort of the name, you know, his father was very popular senator and governor. The pryor name still means something in arkansas. And cotton has some high negatives. So thats sort of the back and forth. I think the easiest thing to say is it is very, very close. Right. David pryor actually you see it in the ad there, david pryor made a cameo in the ad as well. My thanks to you david ramsey. Appreciate the time this morning. Good stuff there. Thanks for having me. Coming up does president obama need a little quality time with democrats in congress . The argument has defined the last few years. Well explain next. More than you think. 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First there was the 800 million stimulus that brought the United States back from the brink of the great recession. Then came the enactment of Health Care Reform that brought Health Insurance coverage to millions of americans, a feat that eluded president s for a century. Soon after that there was a Landmark Financial regulation that cracked down on the reckless wall street practices responsible for the economic downturn in the first place. Last, but not least, came the repeal of dont ask dont tell. Sweeping the des krim nah tri military policy against gay soldiers into the dust bin of history. President obama piled up a lot of historic, legislative victories during the first two years of his presidency. Back in 2009 and 2010. It was big, democratic majorities in the house and the senate that allowed him to do this. Since the president s party suffered what obama himself called a shellacking, the 2010 midterm elections, Congressional Republicans have stymied the president s agenda with unrelenting opposition. The paralysis that has defined washington since 2010, Democratic White House and senate, republican house, that paralysis has given rise to an argument that elicits strong feelings on both sides. Is there more that president obama could be doing . There are those who believe that even in the face of the Republican Opposition he faces there is still room for the president to back up some bipartisan achievements if he would engage more personally and more directly with lawmakers. This week democratic senator Richard Blumenthal of connecticut told the New York Times he can count on the number of both hands the times he has been to the white house since 2011. He said the interaction has been somewhat lacking. The personal, maine senator angus king said, quote, one of the things the white house has not done well and the president has not done well is the simple idea of establishing relationships before there is a crisis. These are not republicans who are grousing about the president. They are senators that caucus with his own party. So that gets to the argument that washington the arguments being made that washington doesnt need to be quite as grid locked right now as it is. The idea that the president has failed to develop the kinds of personal relationships on capitol hill that could potentially overcome some of the partisan divide. The other side of the argument . That all the personal charm in the world, all the arm twisting in the world just couldnt and wouldnt matter today. We do not any more live in the age of lbj. As i said, this is an argument that brings out strong views on both sides so its an argument we are excited to have on this show right now. Joining me to talk about it we have congressional scholar tomas mann of the Brookings Institution and jim manly former senior staffer for harry reid and ill start with you, man of the senate, the article we got the quotes from this week caused a bit of a stir in washington because it was democrats. Democratic senators saying about president obama, not engaged enough with us. Could be getting more results if he was. What do you say to that . Well, i think you and i have talked about this before. Im more than willing to agree that the president is not someone who is willing to get his hands dirty in the midst of the legislative process. You know, he may lose on style points but as you, yourself, just pointed out, he has been extraordinarily an effective president and i think he should be commended for that. There is grumbling within the caucus but the differences between the president and the democrats pale in comparison to the difference between republicans and the president. So do i think he could do a better job of outreach . Yes. Absolutely. Is it going to lead necessarily to breaking gridlock . Absolutely not. What does it lead to then . The case were doing is you do more and what happens . Yeah. The issue, steve, is, you know, the basic blocking and tackling of the legislative process. Again, he sits too far. He sits at the 64,000 foot level. Is not willing to do what he needs to do to try and stroke a democrat. That can only get you so far because, of course, as you are only well aware of the real problem is republicans. So, again, he can do a little bit better, return the phone calls quicker, invite people more on airforce one, do a better job of campaign for him back in their home states. Try and find ways to help him in the legislative process. Again, those are relatively minor things that can be worked out. Well, tom, im curious what your take on this is. Well, i have a difference of degree with jim not of kind. Sure, Everything Else equal, it might have been nice if president obama was more sociable, more engaged, enjoyed the sort of retail politicking up on capitol hill, but i dont think it would have made the slightest difference on anything of consequence. The politics and policy making of this era are shaped by the extreme partisan polarization and by the reality that the Republican Party is acting and has been since the day of his inauguration in 2009 as a vehement Oppositional Party like a Parliamentary Party and, ironically, his appearance with democrats works to their advantage when they represent red states or even purple states coming into a midterm election. And his being seen publicly with republicans hurts republicans and hurts the ability of fashioning any kind of agreements. I think it took a while for the president to realize this. Remember, his brand was a post partisan politics and he acted in accord with that in his initial months in office but he quickly realized what he was up against. I think he worked effectively with democrats on the hill in the first year of his presidency. Actually had more success with democrats than bill clinton did, but now its a different time period and theres relatively little that being chummy with Senate Democrats would help. I wonder, youre somebody, you are a congressional scholar and know the history of this stuff. When did that change . Is there a moment in american policy you can point to . Everybody is always forever pointing back to lbj and talking about the personal touch of lbj, the arm twisting, getting in their faces, oneonone stuff. Probably a lot of mythology in that. Was there a point when that used to work and it stopped working . Yeah. It worked when there was overlap idiosyncrasy logically between the parties and when there was a possibility of garnering support from the other side of the aisle for a president. It also worked when the Democratic Party in this case was much more divided idiosyncrasy logically and it took particular president ial skills and efforts to bring some of those democrats along who didnt want to come along. Now the party is much more unified. I mean, barack obama got all 60 democrats to vote for cloture on health reform. That included some pretty conservative members, including ben nelson, in particular. Therefore, democrats are inclined to go along. There isnt a single piece of legislation or a single confirmation battle in which the president has failed for lack of support on the democratic side. I think all of the talk, whether it be from bob woodward or maureen dowd about the obamas problem and not really reaching out and personalizing overlooks the dramatic transformation. It was already under way by the way with bill clinton. Right. Bill clinton, for all of his schmoozing in congress on both sides of the aisle, garnered not a single republican vote in the house or senate for his major budget package. Right. And they ended up impeaching him. Well squeeze a break and come back. Jim manley who worked with harry reid i want to talk to you about your relationship and dealings with the white house from the senate standpoint, the relationship between harry reid and barack obama. When healthcare gets simpler. When frustration and paperwork decrease. When grandparents get to live at home instead of in a home. So lets do it. Lets simplify healthcare. Lets close the gap between people and care. So im going pro. [ male announcer ] new crest tartar protection rinse. The only rinse that helps prevent tartar buildup and cavities. A little swishing. Less scraping. Yes [ male announcer ] new crest prohealth tartar protection rinse. It helps you escape the scrape. 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There was an anecdote about a meeting at the white house where harry reid is there and Mitch Mcconnell and the president and harry reid started raising the issue of the senates failure to confirm ambassadors. This was a republican blockade. The story basically says harry reid went to that meeting with the idea of bringing that up and the president would give him cover immediately and put more pressure on mcconnell. The president just sort of said you two settle it yourself. Reid left that meeting all flustered and incensed. I know you are not with harry reid anymore but you could speak to maybe how Something Like that happens. Does it speak to a Communications Breakdown between the white house and the democrats in the senate . Well, whether its a breakdown or agaen difference between the executive branch and legislative branch, let me say it like this. The relationship between the president and senator reid is rock solid. Senator reid is going to continue to be his most loyal ally in the senate. Just like for democrats as a whole. I am more than willing to say theres been sometimes over the last couple years where this president and thiS Administration have taken senator reid for granted. Looking at the senate and saying we dont have to worry about the senate. What was an example, you outline some of his most important achievements, health care stimulus, etcetera. Where the pr president and Rahm Emmanuel were in the middle with reid trying to pick up the 60 votes to overcome the filibuster. On nominations for instance i dont know how to tell you this but the fact is its not necessarily senator reids job to get these guys confirmed. Its up to the president to work hard and try and pick up votes on the republican side to get his nominees confirmed. So sometimes he is a little too aloof. His teams are a little too aloof not willing to get their hands dirty in the legislative process preferring, it is kind of flattering but like i said, senator reid, take care of it. The republicans who, just being associated with barack obama in any way is basically political poison for them. One thing thats been happening this year, there have been the periodic dinners the president has been having with some republican senators who are seen as a little more potentially pragmatic. Do you think knowing the senate the way you know it there exists at least in the senate a pool of republicans who are potentially willing to team up with the white house on certain things if that personal push is there . You lost me in the personal push part. There is a small reservoir, small pool of republicans that could be gettable in theory but the fact is theyve all locked arms and decided theyll do everything they can through the election to undermine the president s agenda. Lets take a step back. If you ask me if the president had just hit more golf games with Speaker Boehner or courted mcconnell more he could have overcome the republican gridlock you need to get your head examined. It is not true. What i saw from day one after this president was sworn into office was that Speaker Boehner and senator mcconnell did everything they could trying to undermine this president. The first floor we took to the floor in 2009 was a relatively noncontroversial bill to authorize a series of national parks. What could be wrong about that . You know, we spent three weeks debating that bill over a gun related amendment. It started as an amendment that started the president S Administration and it happened every time since then. It took a while for the president and his team to realize what they were dealing with but at some point in 2011 they figured it out and now theyve and they began to take it to the president. You remember the speech that made barack obama famous in 2004 was there are no red states. There are no blue states. I think they have figured out there are red states and blue states definitely but as the former senate aide jim manley, appreciate the time and thomas mann from the brookings institute. Thank you for joining us. Still ahead after the brutal killing of an american journalist does the u. S. Open the door to air strikes against isis in syria . Thats ahead. yawn ding toaster strudel more fruit in the filling, ya . Mmm ya warm, flaky, gooey, toaster strudel now, with more fruit then a little time to kick back. Earn double Hilton Honors points with the 2 x points package and be one step closer to a weekend break. Doubletree by hilton. Where the Little Things mean everything. Where the reward was that what if tnew car smelledit card and the freedom of the open road . A card that gave you that im 16 and just got my first car feeling. 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The latest violence comes less than one day since an attack on a sunni mosque in the city killed more than 60 people. The sectarian tensions between sunni and shia are still escalating. Months after isis began its march across iraq from syria. When we come back, well tackle the question of whether in order to contain isis, the u. S. Military response in the region will now have to extend to syria. Stay with us. With frog protect . Yeah, we help with fraud protection. We monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. Wow youre really looking out for us. We are. And if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, youre never held responsible. Just to be clear, you are saying frog protection right . Yeah, fraud protection. Frog protection. Fraud protection. Frog. Fraud. Frog. Fraud. I think were on the same page. Were totally on the same page. At discover, we treat you like youd treat you. Fraud protection. Get it at discover. 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Defense officials are now calling the Jihadist Group known as isis the most dangerous threat the u. S. Has faced in years. Isis has made the iraqi border with syria all but nonexistent and marching its way eastward across iraq in an effort to gain control away from u. S. Backed shia government. Yesterday White House National security adviser ben roche said isis is more dangerous today than it was six months ago. He added that the u. S. Stands ready to take action to take further action against isis including in syria. Well talk more about what that means, could mean, might look like in just a little bit. But first, we want to address this weeks execution of an american journalist by isis. A journalist who was captured in syria. The days since isis killed journalist james foley his death confirmed by the white house, officials have been scrambling to identify the nationality of his executioner. Because foleys killer appears to have a british accent. This is James Wright Foley an american citizen of your country. The only reason we show you that video is so you can hear that voice. We should reiterate authorities havent figured out who the voice belongs to let alone where he is from but what he sounds like has once again heightened fears of what is commonly known as home grown terrorism. Young men born or raised in the west who end up fighting with Jihadist Groups in the middle east. And who also have the potential to carry out terror attacks in their home countries. Earlier this month an isis flag with others was seen flying outside a Public Housing project in london. Back in 2006 authorities in canada were able to stop a massive home grown terror plot there. The terror cell called the toronto 18 was convicted of planning a wide range of attacks. They were going to behead the prime minister. They were going to detonate truck bombs in at least three locations in toronto including outside the stock exchange. They were going to storm a television network. Parliament, canadas version of the cia. None of that and more actually came close to happening because a young man infiltrated the group. The canadian cia sent him in there. He became a mole and successfully reported back on the plot planned by the toronto 18. He has an incredible story and is going to tell us. He joins us now live. I really appreciate you taking the time this morning. So your story just i want people to understand your story. You have a western background, indian parents from the United Kingdom but raised in toronto, sort of raised in i guess the middle class upper middle class suburbs of toronto and you ended up falling into extremism. Can you explain how that came about . Sure. Steve, first of all, thanks for having me. Im born and raised in toronto, canada. Lived a normal life. Wasnt discriminated against. Middle class upbringing. I think some guilt tripping from the community to kind of make me because i was living a normal life and they wanted me to be really religious and made me feel bad about the life i was living and so i told myself that i needed to get very religious to sort of break even with the life that i was living. So at the age of 19 i went with the group but nonetheless ended up in pakistan and in 1995 anyway it was the center of taliban activity. I had a chance encounter with the taliban. When i returned back in september of 95 they had taken over afghanistan. I took that as a validation of their world view and fell into the jihadi mindset thereafter and remained so throughout my 20s up through the 9 11 attacks which made me reconsider my views. To take one step back here, that step that seems like such a critical step as we worry about sort of home grown terrorism, that critical step of going from youre saying normal middle class upbringing and this sort of guilt youre feeling about not being religiously pure enough, who is it that you encounter . What is it that you encounter that starts making you think that way . The journey is different for everyone. There is no single profile or pathway if you will. For me it was selfdirected. So you basically, your mind opens up to a new way of thinking, cognitive opening as its called, and you start to realize, okay. How do i fill this void that i think i have . And if youre informed by a particular religious tradition or interpretation, thats the one youre going to default to. So for me, it was i just started to believe that i needed to become more religious. I didnt even know what that meant really. But because of the particular group that i was influenced by, an apolitical group, thats how i kind of started to manifest this outwardly. When youre talking about going over to pakistan, afghanistan, the taliban, what is it youre seeing . What is it youre being told . What is it youre doing over there . So, i mean, the group i went with again, an apolitical group, but the chance encounter with the taliban was a way for them because the group i was with, their creed is basically the way to bring about change in the world is to be more religiously observant. And i shared this with i didnt know who they were at the time but they of course responded with, well, the way to bring about change in the world is with this. And he held aloft his ak47. So he, you know, they there were like seven to ten of them came back to the mosque we were staying at just having general chit chats about how is life in canada . How are the youth in canada . Whats the situation there with the muslims . It is also the concept of the uma, the nation of islam, nation of muslims wherever they may be. So it is to have affinity with those people. So if i can just kind of, if you can imagine, somebody, john smith from south carolina, you know, once he takes on the identity that i am a muslim, he feels for other muslims wherever they are. And so whatll happen is he will have a moment of vicarious suffering so the suffering of his people over there now it becomes something front and center and personal for him here. And so you said 9 11 seemed to change your thinking and sort of shook you out of it. Can you explain how that happened . Yeah. When the attacks initially happened, the first plane, the reports of the first plane hitting the building, he was on my way to work. I was working in an office building. At that time i had a full length beard. I was wearing the turban, the robes all the way down to the shins. And as i came up the driveway coming into the office building, i was seized with the idea that, you know, a plane could hit this building and its not like they would call me and let me know that they were coming. I would have died with everyone else. So that was the first real trigger that made me kind of move away from whether or not this was actually the right way to go about bringing about change in the world. So you from there ended up helping out the Intelligence Community in canada to break up a massive terrorist plot in toronto seven or eight years ago. What was it they were who were these people and what was it they were planning to do . So, a typical, you know, typical story, many of them who were raised in toronto, canada, were raised in a western city, went to public school. Im sure most people believe that they were the nicest guys. I never would have suspected. But, you know, different minority groups. You had some who come from came from conflict zones so an individual came from afghanistan. You had one individual who relatively nonpracticing muslim father, christian mother. So different backgrounds and the plot was of course there were a number of things they wanted to do. I think certainly their reach exceeded their grasp in that sense but the plan was to commit attacks on various targets in the city of toronto targeting Security Intelligence headquarters. The Toronto Stock Exchange to do the economic target. Hitting even an Airforce Base where our Fallen Soldiers are repatriated because the psychology here is look. Well kill them a second time. These were some of the items on the list if you will. When you saw or heard about the video with james foley this week and heard as we all did that what seems to be a british accent, did the thought go through your mind at all that with a few different twists in my life that could have been me standing there with that knife . Absolutely. I think even when i was operational on some of the cases i saw reflections of myself when i was in my early 20s. The only difference is i didnt take the next step and join a group and plot to commit an act of terror. But, i mean, had i fallen into the right group or the wrong group if you will or the right kind of charismatic preacher, i could very easily have ended up doing that. Just quickly, were all looking at what the threat of isis could mean. It means obviously a lot in the middle east right now but what it could mean in europe, in the United States, the potential there for other people with british accents to get radicalized and to come back here and do things. Do you see a threat for more events like the one with the toronto breakup, do you see more threats like that growing out of isis . Absolutely. What youre dealing with is a grievance based ideology. And there is an interaction between ideology and Foreign Policy. And the kinds of things that have driven the plots from preisis days, those elements still exist so youre going to get the same symptom and consequence and that is going to be individuals who would like to see some kind of attack either on the American Homeland or in the western country if not of course in the theaters of war in syria and iraq. So isis in particular, i mean, you have to understand this is a group that kills more muslims than nonmuslims. Even al qaeda doesnt want anything to do with them. So they are just so beyond the pale in that sense and so the threats are coming from people who are so they are socio paths. The technical term is many of them xr become socio paths because of socializing with individuals who are killing people, beheading people. When you stay with groups like that you become so desensitized that killing becomes very easy for people. All right. Well, my thanks to you for joining us this morning. Appreciate the time. A fascinating story. Thank you very much, steve. Up next, if defeating isis in iraq means also having to defeat them in syria, what does that mean for the future of u. S. Military involvement in the middle east . Well tackle that straight ahead. I make a lot of purchases for my business. And i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase. Like 50,000 bonus points when i spent 5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. And i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at Office Supply stores. With ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. Travel, gift cards, even cash back. And my rewards points wont expire. So you can make owning a business even more rewarding. Ink from chase. So you can. You just cantider a 4star know the name . P to 60 off, just no name . Until you book. Um. Yeah, id do that get up to 60 off hotels on hotwire this is how it feels to hotwire. In the places you want to be. Where you can explore super destinations and do everything under the sun. 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Jim, isol is a sophisticated and well funded group as any group we have seen. Theyre beyond just a terrorist group. This is beyond anything that weve seen. That was defense secretary chuck hagel on thursday telling our own pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski how the threat posed by isis may actually surpass the threat once posed by al qaeda. Hagel made it clear deefgt isis in iraq means also defeating it in syria. When president obama first announced he was authorizing air strikes in Northern Iraq earlier this month he referred to it as a strictly limited mission. The president said he would, quote, not allow the u. S. To be dragged into fighting another war in iraq. That was before the killing this week of an american journalist by those islamic militants. The journalist who was captured in syria. That was before the National Security adviser ben rhodes said isis is much stronger now than just six months ago. He added the u. S. Was prepared to carry out strikes inside syria against isis targets. Now before the defense secretary compared isis to al qaeda, with isis emerging as the biggest threat. So is a strictly limited Mission Still in the cards or have the goal posts moved . Joining me to talk about this congresswoman barbara lee of california an early opponent of the war in iraq and the only member of congress to vote against authorization for the use of military force in the wake of 9 11. Thank you for joining us this morning. So in the wake of some of these comments im just curious. You have chuck hagel this week saying this is beyond anything weve seen talking about isis. You have the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff saying isis is ultimately something were going to have to defeat and if were going to defeat it has to be in syria and that even then air strikes alone might not be enough. When you look at what isis represents and these comments im just curious, do you think thats correct what theyre saying . Steve, first of all, im delighted to be with you this morning. I just have to say, there is no doubt that isis is extremely dangerous. I think thats very clear. And i fully agree. I think most people would believe what thiS Administration is telling us. I think whats we have to recognize, though, this. Some of us or many of us supported limited and targeted air strikes to prevent genocide and also to protect the United States personnel. We also said, myself and others included, that any expansion of air strikes or any expansion of our military operations should be done within the context of a full debate and a vote for authorization for this use. What im concerned about is it is expanding and we have not had any type of congressional debate or authorization. I believe that the American People deserve to hear what the alternatives and options are. They need to know the facts. And the way we do that is through the involvement of congress in our constitutional responsibility as it relates to debating and authorizing. So youre saying if there is going to be air strikes in syria you first want a congressional debate and vote to authorize that. Absolutely. Because the public needs to understand what is taking place. First of all, the American People are war weary. And we have to be very careful if in fact were going to insert the United States back into a conflict in iraq and now possibly in syria. We also have to remember that there have been some who have been calling for arming the rebels in syria when, in fact, these rebels are partially isis. And so if we move into syria, i think the public needs to understand what is taking place. We need to have a debate. Thats the only way it will be clear to the American People exactly what the options are and what is taking place. Anything short of that i believe means that congress is really once again abdicating its constitutional responsibility to engage in what is a very serious responsibility and that is to debate and authorize the use of force. When you look at the comparisons that are being made, again we had chuck hagel this week saying isis beyond anything weve seen before saying, you know, a lot of ways more sophisticated than al qaeda, everybody is talking about how this group is isis is so much more extreme than al qaeda. You know, i understand everybodys hess tans in this country. Its perfectly understandable to get involved in any way in the middle east after the last 10, 12 years and what those wars have resulted in for this country. But when you look at that threat from isis, i wonder, that potential threat from isis at least, does that make you change your thinking about the role of the United States should be playing in the middle east potentially . Well, first of all, i think the threat is real. But once again, what is important, at this stage, and i think it is very important that we say this over and over again, that we have to understand the facts. We have to know exactly what the impact and consequences could be if in fact thiS Administration decides to broaden the United States into a war and we have to really come to grips with what is taking place. I think the only way you do that, steve, once again, is coming to congress and having a full debate so the public understands this. At this point, we have not had that. The president and thiS Administration has acted appropriately by keeping congress informed but because isis is so dangerous and because it appears that the administration is considering the expansion of military strikes, its absolutely essential that the American People understand that and understand the implication and the impact of this and know exactly what is taking place. We cant do that without the full a full debate and full authorization of the vote in congress. All right. I guess one of the open questions is does congress, certainly, congresswoman barbara lee, you want that debate. The question is do your colleagues want that debate . That has been an issue. Well see if Congress Steps up and demands that. My thanks to you for joining me. Appreciate the time. Still ahead the future stability in ferguson, missouri rests on whether a grand jury hands down charges agaens Police Officer who shot and killed Michael Brown. Well take a look at that case and how it is likely to proceed, next. Ns. Grandma mary has atrial fibrillation, an irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. That puts her at a greater risk of stroke. Rome . Sure before xarelto®, mary took warfarin, which required monthly trips to get her blood tested. But thats history. Back to the museum . 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Xarelto® can cause serious bleeding, and in rare cases, may be fatal. Get help right away if you develop unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. If you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto®, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. Do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. Tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. Before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. Switching to xarelto® was the right move for mary. Ask your doctor about onceaday xarelto®. No regular blood monitoring; no known dietary restrictions. For information and savings options download the xarelto® Patient Center app, call 1888xarelto, or visit goxarelto. Com so what were looking for is a way to plus our Accounting Firms mobile plan. And minus our expenses. Perfect timing. Were offering our bestever pricing on mobile plans for business. Run the numbers on that. Well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be. Oneseventyfive a month. Good calculating kyle. Good job kyle. You just made partner. Our bestever pricing on mobile share value plans for business. Now with a 100 bill credit for every business line you add. Overnight the streets of ferguson, missouri were calm for a Third Straight night. Vibls between police and protests is continuing to subside after almost two weeks of clashes that erupted after a Police Officer shot and killed an unarmed teenager named Michael Brown. Last night instead of confrontations several protesters stopped to talk with officers about browns death. There is of course fear that anger could once again ignite if the grand jury now hearing evidence in the case does not return a charge against the officer in question darren wilson. As the situation on the streets appears to be cooling down the legal conversation and investigation is heating up. On wednesday, the grand jury began hearing evidence in the shooting death of Michael Brown. Its a grand jury thats been serving already for a number of months. The spokesman for the prosecutor of st. Louis county describes it as, quote, a Diverse Group of citizens, black, white, male, female, age differences and from different parts of the county. To be more specific, it is made up of six white men, three white women, two africanamerican women, and one africanamerican man. Nine votes are required for an indictment. Those numbers are in line with st. Louis county as a whole which is about onequarter africanamerican but does not reflect the demographics of ferguson which is more than twothirds africanamerican. The Legal Process should advance quickly which has the po toengs cause problems. The st. Louis prosecuting attorney the equivalent of a District Attorney says he expects it will take until mid october to present all the evidence. After that the grand jury can take as long as it wants before reaching a decision. Thats what is happening at the county level. Then there is also the federal investigation. Toshiba gener attorney general eric holder visited ferguson the same day grand jury hearings began telling reporters that his Justice Department will investigate whether Michael Browns civil rights were violated. The hope also is that through the trip that im making out here today and by stressing the importance of, and the way in which this investigation is going, that hopefully will have a calming influence on the area and people know a federal, thorough investigation is being done. Being manned by these very capable people. My hope is that will give people the confidence that the appropriate things are being done by their federal government. Here to sort out the legal issues is former federal prosecutor paul butler now a professor at georgetown law. He joins us from d. C. Former prosecutor. We know the jury selection is always such a big deal in any kind of trial this jury 12 members, nine white, three africanamerican, in line with st. Louis county as a whole as basically the demographics of st. Louis county. We talked earlier about the clear racial divide in Public Opinion on this case so far. If youre a prosecutor and looking to potentially bring a case against this officer when you look at that jury does that concern you . Well, grand jurors are told like regular jurors that they should use their Life Experiences and common sense in evaluating evidence and africanamericans have different experiences often with the police than do white americans. I think it is great this grand jury is so diverse. I only wish the ferguson Police Department with its 53 officers and only three africanamerican i only wish it were as diverse because then the whole case might never have happened. What about the other immediate issue with the grand jury . Is this essentially District Attorney mccullough, he is presenting the evidence to it. It always seems the cliche is you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich which says there is so much on, its about the prosecutors. And i know there are some doubts about mccullough. Do you think looking at this from afar that mccullough is a District Attorney who is well positioned to bring clarnlgs ha they should be brought . The prosecutor is the legal adviser. The defense attorney is not allowed in the room. The grand jurors make the decision but really the prosecutor runs the show. I have appeared before grand juryies many times look to you for legal advice. If the community has confidence in the prosecutor then its all good because they know that she or he is putting on a careful case. You can really use it to kind of rehearse what a trial would be like which i think were kind of seeing in bridge gate with a u. S. Attorney in new jersey. But here the community doesnt have that kind of confidence in its prosecutor. He has a notorious record in cases against Police Officers. He got five folks who have been or are employed by the Police Department in his own family. If were thinking about the appearance of justice not just justice but in a high profile racially charged case like this the appearance of justice i think it would be his own best interests to step aside. What happens in terms of the timeline . He is talking right now about mid october being done presenting evidence i guess by mid october. Is there a moment when there is a yes no from the grand jury . Is there a moment when they basically say no were passing or is this something well wake up in february or march and say i guess they never acted on that . No. There is this very dramatic moment when the prosecutor leaves the room. He says to the grand jurors youve heard all the evidence. Now im going to go out and i want you to vote. They can either vote to no true bill which means they dont bring the case or they can vote to bring the case. But again, everyone is going to know. Its the prosecutor who is really leading this investigation. If they say they dont want to bring the case, people wont blame the grand jury. They will blame the prosecutor. All right. Something to look forward to ten weeks from now i guess well get an answer. My thanks to paul butler. A lot more on the story and well be able to talk to you i am sure. Well be right back to share what a Television Legend has meant to us. F and i have copd. Im lisa and i have copd, but i dont want my breathing problems to get in the way of hosting my book club. Thats why i asked my doctor about breo. Oncedaily breo ellipta helps increase airflow from the lungs for a full 24 hours. And breo helps reduce symptom flareups that last several days and require oral steroids, antibiotics, or hospital stay. Breo is not for asthma. 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Totinos pizza rolls. Gets you there in just 60 seconds. Live from studio 3 a in Rockefeller Center usa, its time for up against the clock todays contestants, she had the unique privilege of cooking a thanksgiving turkey on Live Television with Steve Kornacki. Please welcome l. Joy williams he once rode through the amazon with a giant anaconda and on a completely unrelated note now covers congress. Its john stanton he was voted most opinionated in his high school class. Today hes been sharing his opinions with us. Say hello to josh barrow. Now, the host of up against the clock Steve Kornacki thank you, gene cutler. Thank you everyone out there in tv land for tuning in today for another exciting, thrill packed edition of up against the clock. Let me remind you how it all works. This is a fast paced political news and Current Events quiz. We play three rounds. Each of them 100 seconds long. There are a hundred points in the first round, 200 in the second, 300 in the third. They get harder as we go along. Contestants are reminded you can ring in any time but you will be penalized for incorrect answers. So be careful. Also, there are two special bonus questions scattered in the questions here. We will explain them when they come up. Our contestants will be playing today not just for victory but also for a chance to play in our annual tournament of champions. To qualify you have to first win today. As always i implore our live studio audience, please, no outbursts. Contestants i now ask you if youre in place to place your hands on your buzzers. Ready to play . Yes. They look and sound ready to me. Well put a hundred seconds on the clock. The 100point round begins with this. On thursday, dr. Kent brantley was released from the hospital after being infected by this disease. Josh . Ebola. Correct. A hundred points for josh. Hundredpoint tossup the possibility of another Government Shutdown in 2015 was introduced this week by this top senate republican. Josh . Mitch mcconnell. Mitch mcconnell. Thats correct. Hundredpoint question here. With three weeks to go until the democratic primary a debate was held tuesday between the three Democratic Candidates in massachusetts who are vying to replace this current governor. Josh . Duvall patrick. Correct. A hundred points for josh the early leader. Back with this hundredpoint tossup after dan shapiro the u. S. Ambassador to israel took the als ice bucket challenge this week, this u. S. Cabinet department decided to ban its high level employees from future participation. Josh . State. State department did that. Hundred points more for josh. Hundredpoint tossup question. The 66th annual primetime emmys will be held this coming monday. Among the nominees for outstanding lead actress in a drama is this woman who plays olivia l. Joy . Oh, shoot. Did i just time. Oh, my gosh. Josh . Carrie washington. Stop the clock because josh i have exciting news for you. Not only did you get a hundred points for correctly answering that but that is our video bonus question. So you have a special celebrity guest here who is going to read you a bonus question. This is a risk free proposition. If you get it right a hundred extra points. You get it wrong no penalty for guessing. Listen to the celebrity. Hi. I have this weeks up against the clock quote of note. Government is like a big baby. An elementary canal with a big appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. Josh, do you recognize the quote . Is that Ronald Reagan . It is Ronald Reagan. A hundred more points for josh. Off to a furious start here. Restart the clock. Hundredpoint tossup question. Ip addresses from congressional offices were banned this week from making updates to this user john . Wikipedia. Correct. Hundred points for john. Hundredpoint tossup states will be allowed to delay standardized test results to rate teachers for another year. This secretary of education arne duncan. Josh. Bob mcdonnell admitted during testimony during his corruption trial he is residing with a member of the clergy of this religion. John . Catholicism. Correct. Hundred points at the wire for john. Ended the hundredpoint round. Josh with the lead at 700. John at 200. L. Joy negative 100. Good news. You can make up a lot of ground fast when we double the value of the points. This is the 200point round. A little harder. A lot more valuable. A hundred seconds on the clock. The game continues with this. Paul ryan this week suggested that the next speaker of the house should be Jed Hensarling who chairs the Financial Services committee and represents this state. Josh . Texas. 200 points for josh. 200point question. Russia is allegedly retaliating against u. S. Sanctions by shutting down its locations of what internationally known josh . Mcdonalds. Correct. Stop the clock. Exciting news for john. Youve just got 200 points and now ill offer you a proposition because this is our use it or lose it bonus question. Heres how it works. I have here a followup question to the one you just answered. It is related in some way. You can choose to take that question and if you answer it correctly we will double your winnings, give you an additional 200 points. If you incorrectly answer it well take the 200 points you won away. I have the question here. Will you use it or lose it . Hell use it. Here is the followup question. For 200 additional points mcdonalds busiest location in the world is located in this famous moscow locale. The kremlin. Incorrect. Pushkin square. 200 points off. Sorry. I admire your guts for taking the shot. Put the clock back on here. Running again. 200point question. This bank agreed this week to pay more than josh . Bank of america. Paid more than 16 billion. Correct. 200point tossup. According to a report in the wall street journal this week potential musical groups are being asked to pay money. Josh . The super bowl. To play the super bowl. 200 more for josh. Running away your 200point tossup. On tuesday former alaska attorney general dan sullivan won the republican nomination for the u. S. Senate seat, defeating this tea party favorite. Josh . Joe miller. Defeated joe miller. 200 more points. 200point tossup New York Times reporter Matthew Rosenberg was expelled from this country this week after being accused by its government of espionage. John . Iran. Incorrect. Well call time. Its afghanistan. 200point question. On wednesday the Supreme Court delayed the issuing of same sex marriage licenses from beginning in this southern state. Josh . Virginia. In virginia. That is correct. 200point question. A new poll in New Hampshire this week found scott brown polling within four points of this incumbent democratic senator. Josh . Gene shaheen. Correct. On monday u. S. Open will begin at the new york Tennis Center named for this trail blazing josh . Arthur ashe. Incorrect. Ill complete the question. The Tennis Center named for this trail blazing female tennis star. Billy jean king. Correct. 300 points for l. Joy. 200 points there. Josh, at 1700, john at zero. L. Joy on the board at 200. This moves us to the final round the 300point round. The ph. D round. Well dim the lights for dramatic effect. Play dramatic music. Well crown a champion at the end of the round. Points can add up fast here. Everybody is still in the game. 300point round begins now. This former senator who single handedly shifted control of the senate when he defected john. Jim jeffords. Died this week. 300 points for john. Top of bankers around the world including Federal Reserve chair janet yellin are gathered this weekend for the Federal Reserve bank of kansas citys annual josh. Jackson hole. Is in jackson hole. Correct. 300point question. In a new ad Georgia Senate candidate democrat Michelle Nunn is touting the endorsement of this former governor and u. S. Senator who famously challenged Chris Matthews to a dual. Josh . Zell miller. Thats correct. 300 points. 300point tossup. President obamas former Campaign Manager David Plouffe was hired this week by this hoover. Ill complete the question. David plouffe incorrect was hired this week by this startup Transportation Company uber which is headquartered in what city . No guesses . Well call time. The city is san francisco. 300point tossup question. Before rick perry was indicted last week, the previous sitting governor to be indicted while in office was john roland from this state. Josh . Connecticut. He is from connecticut. Correct. 300 points for josh. Tossup, kentucky senator rand paul also an opthalmologist traveled to this country this week. Guatemala. Might have come up earlier in the show. Unwittingly conceding the election, democrat rick wile accidently referred to his republican opponent mike rounds as senator in a debate this week for the open senate seat in his josh . South dakota. In south dakota. That is correct. 300 points for josh. Thats the horn. Thats the game. Thats a very impressive score. 2900 points. 300, 100. I think we crown josh the winner and that means youll ghet prize package that bill wolf is going to tell you about. As our champion, your name will be engraved using the finest sharpy ink on the all new stain resistant up against the clock gold cup and also a dvd copy of the classic 1988 film cocoon the return personally autographed. Youll get to play in our jackpot round for todays grand prize a 50 Gift Certificate to kwik meal food cart mid manhattan the only street food vendor in the greater area operated by a former chef of the russian tea room. I had it for lunch today. Delicious. Enjoy the meal and congratulations back to you, steve. All right. Josh, congratulations. There is with the champions mug and that score means very likely youll be in the tournament this year. Youre not done yet. We have that instant bonus question for that street meet gift card. I do really want the street meat. Here it is. President obama will return from Marthas Vineyard tomorrow night where he has been vacationing with his wife and family for the past two weeks. Who is the current member of congress who represents Marthas Vineyard in the house . Oh, bill delahunt. Close. Its his successor, bill keating. Right. Unfortunately you have to pay for your own street meat. Congratulations on the victory. Very impressive performance. Thank you to l. Joy and john for playing. You both get the home edition fun for the familyedition. Thank you for playing. Back with the rest of the show right after this. It means taking chances. It means trying something new. [ woman ] that uncertainty of whats to come. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. Phillips Digestive Health support is a duoprobiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. Im doubly impressed phillips Digestive Health. A daily probiotic. Thats keeping you from the healthcare you deserve. At humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare changes. When frustration and paperwork decrease. When healthcare becomes simpler. So lets do it. Lets simplify healthcare. Lets close the gap between people and care. This toy is a reminder that someone cares. Ug. These are a chance to be part of a team. And this is a chance to succeed. Female announcer with your support, the employee owners of sleep train are proud to dedicate their time, hearts and resources to giving local foster children one important thing hope. Hope. Hope. Not everyone can be a foster parent. But anyone can help a foster child. Children sleep train child your ticket to a better nights sleep its time to find out what our guests know now that they didnt know when the week began. Josh barrow . National democratic politicians do not seem to associate themselves with the protesters in ferguson and more broadly with the issue of Police Abuses and racial divides in criminal justice in america which i think is kind of odd in that if you can imagine an event similar to ferguson, the 20 to 25 of the Republican Base was deeply energized about, you could see those looking to run for president out there associating themselves with the protesters even though when you associate you self with a Group Controversial you can get backlash. It will be interesting to see when thats stable. I know theres a resolution thats worked its way through the dnc executive Committee Standing with the protesters on various ib use. Ill be interested to see if that translates into actual public action by democrats. But it seems to me if youre looking for a way to run for president to hillarys left and find an issue on which democrats feel like mainstream democrats are not voicing their anger, this is the issue. This is fundamentally the issue bill de blasio got elected mayor on in new york. Im surprised we havent seen anybody really taking it up and i wonder if we will see that. Well look for it this week. John . I think one of the things i learned this week is my colleague gina moore who is in west africa covering the ebola crisis right now, she wrote a great story, i guess, about how one of the biggest populations being hit by this are women because that he the people who tha are taking care of the sick. Is and the most vulnerable. A particular ly difficult time for them. This is continuing to spread there and having a lot more troubles getting their hands around it. As weve fallen off the news in the United States because of Everything Else going on, its still one of the major crises in the world right now. Americans should know black lives matter. And when you have Law Enforcement across the country that are treating africanamericans and other people of color as if our bodies and very lives dont matter as much as human beings, that should be a problem for everyone in this country. I also know that there are hundreds of people out on Staten Island who are continuing to pr protest Police Brutality in the eric garner case here in new york. Were heading out to Staten Island. And also this weekend afropunk festival in brooklyn. Ill be out there registering people and well talk about law forcement abuses. Come to brooklyn. Wed love to have you. But then go home. Ill be sleeping this afternoon. We had a question about it in the game show, i got to moderate a debate. The primaries in three weeks. Its an interesting race because everybody looks at massachusetts, ah, they never democratic state. Well, theyve had four republican governors the last generation or so and this one is still going to get close and you might nationally recognize the democratic frontrunner martha coakley, shes back. She could well be the democratic candidate this fall. Keep an eye on my home state. Its a fun race. I want to thank msnbc contributor josh barrow, buzz feeds paul stanton, thank you for getting up and joining us today. Join us tomorrow, sunday morning, 8 00 a. M. We will talk to wisconsins newly minted democratic candidate for governor, the woman who will be challenging Governor Scott walker this fall. There are polls out showing its almost a dead even race. First coming up next is melissa harrisperry. As the violence subsides, the investigation into the killing of Michael Brown is under way. What comes next for ferguson . Melissa harrisperry is up next. Well see you here tomorrow 8 00 a. M. 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