also being joined by members of the iraqi army who are re-enlisting at this point. the government is even offering free flights to the capital who soldiers who deserted and found themselves stranded. security officials say that sunni militants have seized an iraqi crossing on the border with syria. about 30 iraqi troops were killed. the officials say that people are now crossing back and forth freely. the iraqi government is also facing its own tensions from within. the spiritual leader of iraq's shiite majority is now saying it's time for new leadership. that's a not so subtle way of saying without saying that it's time for prime minister nouri al maliki to go. u.s. secretary of state john kerry is expected to travel to the region soon to discuss the stability of iraq. part of that is likely to be made dealing with the request of iran who has asked the u.s. for air support to counter the rebels there in iraq. the posters in this picture from tehran yesterday are leading iraqi shiite cleric. nbc news foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin is live in iraq this morning. ayman, given the sectarian tensions and how they seem to be escalating, is a political solution even a real possibility? >> reporter: well, certainly if you ask some of the officials in power, particularly here in the kurdish regional government, everybody insists. you know, i sat down with the kurdish prime minister today and he told me there is no military solution to this, there is only a political solution. that political solution has to begin with the leadership of this country to try to come up with a new framework. a military solution may buy time and set the isis fighters back on their heels, but it doesn't solve the underlying grievances that exist among the sunni arab community or the sunni arab population here that are really fueling some of the resentment against the iraqi government and leading to some of these fractures along sectarian lines. this is fundamentally a political problem that manifests itself along sectarian lines. right now the only solution, according to some of the officials i've been speaking, to is a political one. i'm not sure that prime minister nouri al maliki is convinced by that. i think some of the people around him want to address this militarily and that's the message coming out of baghdad. they're trying to address this situation as a threat by terrorists, and they want to deal with it militarily. >> ayman, i guess one of the big questions is here, obviously you have isis, something like 10,000 isis fighters but they have been supported by more moderate sunnis who have joined them or let them come in and take over places like mosul. if there was a more inclusive government, with or without al maliki, do you think more moderate sunnis would be open to that political solution? >> reporter: absolutely. you know, we've seen this work in the past. keep in mind when the u.s. was here, they were actually able to use the local sunni tribes and local sunni population in what was then called the awakening councils to fight al qaeda back in iraq, but that was back in the day posed a threat to the american soldiers. so a lot of the isis support that is now coming from the local communities includes members that were former regime officials under saddam hussein, former military officers and local senior tribal leaders. those groups can be co-opted into the political process if they're given a seat at the political table, but right now they have been marginalized over the past six to seven months and that's why there is this ground swell of support isis is able to tap into and advance rather easily through those areas. >> thanks to ayman mohyeldin. please say safe. we want to look at iraq in the wake of the vacuum created when coalition forces drove saddam hussein and his government from power, a moment that many people believe has a whole lot to do with the situation iraq finds itself in now. >> reporter: this is the olympia hospital in downtown baghdad, stripped completely bare by looters. they were still there when we arrived, shamelessly grabbing a few final items. two young boys even removing the light bulbs. many ordinary iraqis are getting extremely angry about sights like this and the red cross demanding the u.s. react. >> it is a duty of the occupying power to do so. >> widespread looting not just in hospitals but in schools and power plants and, most famously, the ransacking of the national museum. the only building that u.s. forces protected was the oil ministry. defense secretary donald rumsfeld's reaction at the time to the looting was, quote, stuff happens. but the u.s. military had been warned about the high potential for looting once the iraqi government was removed from power. the sunni regime of saddam hussein that had ruled with an iron fist and suppressed the shia majority and kurdish minority, sometimes by gassing them to death that, regime was gone. in its place, chaos ruled. order was eventually restored at great cost both in terms of the billions of dollars that were spent or lost and the more than 4,000 u.s. servicemen and women who gave their lives. a new government backed by the coalition was voted in by the shia majority and that's the government now led by prime minister al maliki. but as president obama told "morning joe's mika brzezinski in an interview that will air on monday, iraq has changed. >> you said that the war was ended in iraq. you said al qaeda was decimated. you said it was stable. >> it was. but just because something is stable two years ago or four years ago doesn't mean that it's stable right now. what we have is a situation in which in part because of growing mistrust between sunni and shia, some of the forces that have always possibly pulled iraq apart are stronger now. those forces that could keep the country united are weaker. it is ultimately going to be up to the iraqi leadership to try to pull the politics of the country back together. >> if you spend any time reading about iraq, you will quickly find out that the tribal divisions in the region do go back to the seventh century. but the problems that iraq is facing right now are not about fighting a dispute that's thousands of lines old. a direct line can be drawn from that 2003 invasion to what is happening right now today. sunnis used to control the government absolutely until the u.s. and coalition forces changed all that. so now shiites run the show just as absolutely. sunnis don't trust that the current government will ever represent their interests. the same can be said for the kurds. so as long as that's the case, the radical sunni terrorist group known as isis has all the support that it needs for its campaign to take back at least part of iraq, city by city and day by day. joining us now, nancy youssef, msnbc contributor patrick murphy, former democratic house member from pennsylvania who was the very first veteran of the iraq war to serve in congress. also michael kay, a retired british lieutenant colonel and reporter with six operational tours in iraq and afghanistan. thank you all so much for joining me. nancy, i want to start with you about this question of a political solution and what's likely to happen with prime minister nouri al maliki. he's under a lot of pressure from within his own party, obviously from the u.s., from shiite clerics. do you think it's possible for him himself to change and forge a more open, inclusive government, or does he really have to go to begin the march towards what we hope is a potential political solution? >> well, there are two issues at hand. one is nouri al maliki himself who at his very core really believes in defending the shia and the shia cause. he has been like that from the very beginning. i've interviewed him in the past and he always spoke in a quite sectarian nature. so asking him to come forward and being a national consensus leader is a challenge. another factor is that he has a long history of not beingin kla -- being inclusive so how one overcomes that history is quite difficult. and thirdly, he feels that he has reached out in the past and has been misled and given bad advice by sunni and kurdish leaders, and so from his perspective, he doesn't know who to reach out to and who to trust those factions that he's supposed to be reaching out to so all of those factors come together to make it a challenge for him to undo the history, both his own personal one and the one as his tenure at prime minister and create a sense of national consensus. frankly the fact that there hasn't been a real change in tone and approach since this crisis began certainly portends to someone not committed to national reconciliation the way the united states and some iraqis are asking him to be. >> certainly. it seems to me like it's hard to see how to get a political situation with prime minister al maliki still there. patrick, it seems to me like iraq is essentially coming apart at the seams, something that folks have been predicting could happen since we invaded iraq. saddam hussein was able to sort of keep it together through brutally repressive tactics. we were able to keep it together through tens of thousands of our men and women sort of keeping the peace. and folks have been saying from the beginning that maybe what has to happen is for iraq to divide. joe biden back in 2007 was much mocked for saying maybe what we need to do is to partition iraq. let's take a listen to what he had to say. >> the only way there's any possibility of dealing with sectarian violence is you've got to separate the parties, give them some breathing room, give them local control. if you don't do that, tim, you think we're going to get there in any way with this present government? can anybody envision a central government made up of sunni, shia and kurds that's going to gain the trust and respect of 27 million iraqis? it's not going to happen. >> he was mocked at the time. you were there. you saw these people and the conflicts firsthand. is there anyone who can actually bring together sunnis, shias, kurds in a democratic system? >> first off, there's three candidates right now and they're all shia. does shia have the majority of population within iraq and within the government so it has to be a shia leader but someone that's moderate. i will say quickly, though, paul wolfowitz and rumsfeld said there's going to be no sectarian vie sgle violence. most folks said there would be some except those folks. let's make sure history is accurate. it's going to have to be a shia leader but one that's moderate and will reach out. for someone like me who lost 19 men in my unit in iraq and i was there and got back ten years ago, to see all the blood that we invested in that country and we gave it to them and they did have a central government, but maliki is part of the problem. he's not part of the solution. and he has to go. i understand a big announcement this week of 300 troops going in there, but we have to precondition that military support, because it's not a military solution, it's a political one. we have to get there by getting rid of maliki. and it's not we, it's the iraqi people and the iraqi government that has to get him to go. >> what i'm so excited about is having both of you here because both of you were there, so you have firsthand knowledge of what it's like on the ground. mikey, what do you say to that? is there anyone who can bring these groups together in a democratic government or is some sort of divided iraq inevitable? >> i was there in 2003 across the border with the u.s. marines and the brits coming in from the south from q-8. the important thing about iraq in terms of the way we've taken conflict into the future is it was the comprehensive approach. it was sinner ja ener jiegz wha wanted to achieve. so the military would never take an action unless it was for a desired effect that the state department wanted to achieve or usaid wanted to achooe. we're still trying to work that out. i agree with patrick actually in terms of the reconciliation piece. people are talking about maliki and reconciliation with the kurds and the sunnis. i think we're beyond that now. i think we need someone else, as patrick was saying, to actually rebirth that good will and that glue. but look, the important thing i think here is we're talking about this locally. we're talking about this within the constraints of iraq. what i think is really important is let's look at what's going on with syria. if you want to strike at the heartbeat of isis, you have to go to aleppo. the leader of al qaeda in iraq has moved to syria because it is a governless state. the paradox of this, krystal, is that we've got political gridlock. it is a political solution but we've got political gridlock in syria at the united nations security council and we got that because of the undesired consequences and the mistakes that we've made in iraq. so we're actually bearing the brunt of our own consequences. what we need to do is focus on iraq. like afghanistan, you won't solve afghanistan unless you solve pakistan and taliban on both sides of the border. >> we can't look at these as discrete problems. we'll be right back. start with the best writing experience.? make it incredibly thin. add an adjustable kickstand, a keyboard, a usb port, and the freedom of touch. and, of course, make it run microsoft office, with the power and speed to do real work. introducing surface pro 3. the tablet that can replace your laptop. we've always been on the forefront of innovation. when the world called for speed... ♪ ...when the world called for stealth... ♪ ...intelligence... endurance... affordability... adaptability... and when the world asked for the future. staying ahead in a constantly evolving world. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. but we're not in the business of naming names. the volkswagen passat is heads above the competition, the fact is, it comes standard with an engine that's been called the benchmark of its class. really, guys, i thought... it also has more rear legroom than other midsize sedans. and the volkswagen passat has a lower starting price than... much better. vo: hurry in and lease the 2014 passat s for $199 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. we are back with more on the path forward in iraq, and there is a quote in "the new yorker" that grabbed me that i thought was -- kind of summed up where we are. they said what the americans left behind was an iraqi state that was not able to stand on its own. what we built is now coming apart. this is the real legacy of america's war in iraq. and, nancy, one of the bizarre absu absurdities of the situation we find ourselves in now is that we are essentially on the same side as iran here in this conflict, given that they are also shia dominated, they have a lot of power with prime minister al maliki, they also obviously have an interest in regional stability and not having terrorists next door. is this an opportunity in a way to potentially build a little bit more trust with iran? they do have a new president who we've had some hopes will be more moderate that ahmadinejad. >> that's one of the debates happening here in washington about what kind of relationship can be formed with iran in light of this. because of the fact that like the united states they would like stability in iraq and a shia-led iraq, which is a shared interest. the conflict becomes what is iran's interest vis-a-vis the arab world. are they a force that's causing stability or instability in the broader arab world. there's an argument to be made that they are continuing to the broader instability in the arab world that led to the birth of groups like isis. and so the question becomes how do you build a relationship with iran vis-a-vis iraq without at the same time encouraging a group that has led to greater instability in the region. the other thing to remember is that there's a lot of very high anti-american sentiment in iran, and so the idea of building a relationship with them would be in that context. how you do that arguably is one of the biggest challenges. >> mikey, we've been talking a lot about the 300 special forces folks who will be going there. they have been called military advisers, i think, for a lot of civilians that's sort of an abstract term. what will they actually be doing on the ground? >> well, from a special forces perspective, the nature of special forces, it's covert as it is. so if they were going in, we're probably not going to know about it. but if they're there, they're going to be conducting what's called s and r and s and i. so they're not going to kick down doors and do pseudoosama bin laden missions, they'll be there to suck up the intelligence and understanding what isis are all about. i went back to baghdad in 2006 and 2008 to conduct two operational tours and we were hunting al qaeda and high value assets across the city. we were operating off intelligence and networks that took years to compile. really understand who are the key value people that we need to target here. that's going to take time to build up with isis. >> so that's not going to happen overnight. >> no. we try to get an understanding of who this organization is and what the connections are, what the flows are, what the logistics flows are between there and back into syria. i think that's what they'll be building is this intelligence picture. >> patrick, is there a neat dividing line between combat troops, the president saying we're not sending any more combat forces back in, these are just advisers. is there a real neat line there? >> michael is right that they're there to support and gather intelligence against isis. but they're going to be at operating bases, supplementing brigade headquarters so about 3,000 iraqi soldiers. we have our s.e.a.l.s, our rangers on the ground there. the problem is that isis and other insurgents will know that they're there. every night they'll be getting mortared. they're going to be getting mortared from the middle of towns in a civilian area. they're going to pop off a couple rockets and then they're going to move because they know how american forces work. we don't want to see civilian casualties. we're going to be there with the iraqis. we don't want to be held responsible for civilian casualties, even though they're going to be getting attacked. that's the problem here. you're sending 300 american forces in to bolster up the iraqi army and in reality, if maliki is still in charge, it's not going to be part of the solution. as ayman said in the beginning of your segment of the show, maybe it buys us time to get maliki out of there. but we need to get him out of there in days, not weeks or months. the biggest news this week was the vote of no confidence. he is the number one shia cleric. people listen to him in the shia community so hopefully that will put enough pressure -- >> hopefully that will start to move things. what i so appreciate about both of your take is you say, oh, it's just 300 people. no, those are 300 american lives that we are now putting on the line in iraq again. nancy, i want to give the last word to you. let's say that a political solution doesn't work out. let's say that we do end up with a divided iraq, with isis in control of some region in iraq and in syria. what does that look like? what are the consequences for the u.s.? >> well, in the short term it's a quasi state with its own military, a successful military campaign, it's own flag, it's own law. they would have to govern that state which is a challenge they haven't been presented in the past. if they are successful in that, then presumably they're not going to use that power just within their own states but actually seek to destabilize and expand these to u.s. allies in jordan and possibly expand that threat to the western world itself. and so we talk about separating ir