Transcripts For MSNBCW Up With David Gura 20191117

Says the decision to delay that aid to ukraine was highly irregular. A former colleague will join us in a minute. It is becoming increasingly clear how pivotal it would be if john bolton were to testify. Pete buttigieg breaks out in iowa with 78 days to the iowa caucuses, three days to the next debate here on msnbc. And kal penn on his new show sunnyside takes on daca. Up me this morning, shermichael singleton. Law professor at nyu. From washington is a White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Shes also an msnbc contributor. New details emerging overnight after the House Intelligence Committee released hundreds of pages of testimony from two key witnesses in the impeachment inquiry. Closed door testimony from tim morison paints a picture of john bolton working feverishly during a secret august meeting trying to convince him to release the 391 million in security aid to ukraine. Investigators say u. S. Ambassadors to the eu says he believes he was acting in President Trumps direction urging ukraine to announce political investigations. Tim morison was on the july 25th phone call, raised red flags, telling government lawyers it could be damaging if it were to be leaked. I recommended that we restrict access to the package. That we did not need quite so many people to have access to the package. Williams also weighing in on the president s ukraine call after listening in firsthand saying it struck me as unusual and inappropriate and more political in nature than previous calls than other calls. It expressed the president s personal political agenda, in her view. A rare saturday closed door session on capitol hill. Washington post reporting the decision to withhold 400 million, including millions in lethal aid, was a political one. The weekend sets up a busy week on the hill where House Democrats will hear public testimony from eight more witnesses in the impeachment proceedings. Andy, let me start with you. A lot of what we saw in the transcripts was stuff we knew. More color, more detail. But broadly speaking, what is the takeaway from what happened in the closed door depositions . Again, as you said, this continues to confirm now more than a dozen witnesses confirming the basic story line here, that there was a direction to withhold hundreds of millions of funds in exchange for political investigations. But, again, we saw more details, more flesh put on the bone here. For instance, pences aide for the first time explained in detail by tby the vice presiden told her that trump specifically said he didnt want pence to go any more. With morison, we see the importance of firsthand witnesses. We see the importance of john bolton. The democrats need to see people who interacted directly with trump to push this case along to make it different from what we have seen so far. Thats why Gordon Sondlands testimony on wednesday, we see how important that is going to be. That is potentially the most important thing this week. He is someone we have seen over and over had direct conversations with the president and could underline the republican argument that none of these witnesses have a firsthand account. Lets sort of pull back and talk about the atmosphere surrounding this, withholding the aid. It is a clear example of an effort within the white house to release that aid, get the aid released. Its part of this larger story that you had folks in any number of agencies, be the defense department, folks on capitol hill, wondering why it hadnt been released. From tim morisons testimony, there was no clearly articulated answer to that. It comes back to this is a white house where the traditional protocols dont hold sway. Someone like john bolton, incredibly partisan but incredibly by the book is having a hard time. He is trying to push the president. Why is the aid not being released . He is not getting a good answer. You get more of a context for why he leaves in such frustration. Tim morison saying my consistent direction was do not get involved and make sure the lawyers are tracking when it come to Gordon Sondland. Fiona hill said that was the message she got as well. This was a mess, drug deal, hand grenade waiting to go off. We are in a perilous position here. Thats right. What i gleaned from the closed door depositions was the lengths that john bolton went to, despite his concern, to distance himself from this controversy. When people did raise concerns, when there were numerous concerns, boltons direction was go through the process and, you know, elevate the concerns that way. Rather hand him getting directly involved here. But i think at the end of the day it is important for democrats to, you know, put forth witnesses that directly spoke with the president. Gordon sondland is going to be a linchpin in the investigation here. He is the person who omitted this call that was practically on speaker phone in kyiv. He is the person here who is going to provide the most compelling testimony, or is willing to, that the president directed him to coordinate this scheme to get ukraine to launch an investigation into political opponents. Shermichael, there is a way that Gordon Sondland sees himself and the way we see him. That comes through in tim morisons deposition. Gordon sondland believed and related that the president was giving him instruction. Thats crucial here too. It is. He seems to embrace that role, i would argue. I think there is an issue for democrats. This is someone who has had to change his testimony at least once, maybe twice. So i do wonder is he going to be combative, willing to answer the questions directly . Is he going to try to skirt around some of the questions . That all depends and in thinking about this through politics, they may view this as someone who may have had direct communication with the president with someone they cannot trust. That is something democrats will have to try to figure out a way as they try to articulate something to the American People throughout this process. Andi, we learned how much the president talked to the Vice President of the United States. Half a dozen instances when they talked to each other. This is counter to what we have heard from the president. Yes, he was a major donor. Gave a million bucks. Got this ambassadorship. But President Trump maund he doesnt know the guy, doesnt know him well. As we talk about new color, new details here in this transcript, that is certainly one that stands out. Yeah. That was a classic trump maneuver. Whenever somebody gets in trouble, he is the first to run in the other direction. I hardly know Gordon Sondland reminded me of manafort, former campaign manager, briefly worked as an intern or something to really downgrade any connection he has to anyone in trouble. The other thing i wanted to point out is tim morison was one of the witnesses that republicans quickly jumped on as something that bolstered their case. He came out of his first testimony saying he saw nothing illegal on the july 25th phone call between trump and zelensky. And republicans thought this was a really strong case for them and said the tables are turning. And now i think the rest of what we see from morisons testimony, if they think he is their strongest play, just talking about the facts on the ground, its a very weak play. You have him saying hes okay with the substance of this phone call. He put it where he put it wrongly by mistake but he wanted to put it someplace because it might leak. She is somebody who worked closely with mike pence. She said burisma was mentioned on the phone call. That is another commonality that the American People will find there is the other call that was released last week on friday. The april 20th phone call. Again, the whole question of corruption that was not in the transcript of the call. So there is a lot of cutting of material, sort of habitual erasing of the record that people should find troubling but not necessarily unusual. Thank you very much for joining us from washington this morning. Thank you. Up ahead, new polls that show dramatic change. Up next, mark sandy testifying behind closed doors. What we know about his testimony and how it could affect the impeachment hearing. Office of management and budget will join us next. Will join us next. Exxonmobil is growing algae for biofuels. That could one day power planes, propel ships, and fuel trucks. And cut their Greenhouse Gas emissions in half. Algae. Its potential just keeps growing. groans hmph. food grunting menacingly when the food you love doesnt love you back, stay smooth and fight heartburn fast with tums smoothies. Tum tumtum tum tums high protein. Low sugar. Tastes great high protein. Low sugar. So good high protein. Low sugar. Mmmm, birthday cake pure protein. The best combination for every fitness routine. honk i hear you sister. Thats why im partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual checkup, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel physically and emotionally. But now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. Just find a period of time to unwind. A location to destress. An activity to enjoy. Or the name of someone to talk to. To create a plan that works for you, visit cigna. Com mystressplan. Cigna. Together, all the way. This is up. Im david gura. And this is mark sandy who until very recently was an unknown senior career official in the office of management and budget at the white house. Now he is a pivotal player in the house impeachment inquiry, someone who has firsthand knowledge when it comes to hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid that was held up. His signature appears on several of the documents that froze the funding. He signed july 25th, the same day President Trump spoke to president zelensky. He became the first omb official to answer lawmakerss questions behind closed doors. He was subpoenaed. Washington post reports he testified that it was not only highly irregular regulbut they unable to explain why it was done. Despite mull vane yas comment that this happens all the time. In a statement reacting, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee adam schiff focuses attention on Mick Mulvaney from blocking others to implying with subpoenas, and refused to provide congress with documents relating to the aid freeze. Vice president for democracy and government reform at the center for american progress. Sam, great to have you with me. I look here what the president is retweeting this morning. He doesnt have a war room. He relies on a few today. Lee zeldin writes just finished the depo of omb staffer, mark sandy, he came in to testify about why there was a hold on aid to ukraine. This transcript needs to be released before the next public hearing on tuesday. I want to get a sense of the importance of him testifying, going to capitol hill, defying the white house and talking about this issue in particular. How does this advance our understanding here . Sure. A central issue as you alluded to is whether withholding this was part of his broader Extortion Campaign that he was engaged in. What mark sandy can help explain, why were career officials cut out of the process . What exactly was the white house trying to hide . This is something we have seen time and time again in this impeachment inquiry. Honest career officials are pushed aside so they dont impede corruption. We saw last week how it was going on at the state department. Mark sandy can explain the office of management and budget at the white house. You worked with him. We see the tension between him and michael duffy, the political appointee in the office of management and budget. What can you tell us about mark sandy either specifically, him as an individual, be or the role that he was playing in that department. Ill just say that he had an excellent reputation within omg. And in general he would be the person that normally would sign off on a request of this kind. To be clear, when i say request of this kind, there arent many requests that come down from the United States saying, hey, i would like to extort a foreign power to interfere in upcoming elections. But the legal manner in which this hold was actually placed, that is done by a career official. It is a ministerial action that deals with how funding is meted out over the course of time. A political stepin raises serious questions. What exactly was going on . Why couldnt they justify what they were trying to do . It speaks to the fact that there was underlying corruption there. This wasnt for political reasons. That is part of the broader Extortion Campaign. It is something you wrote about for just security, the website. Talking about the tools that congress has to dig into this and get an understanding of whats been happening here. Now that you have seen him testify, where this investigation is headed, is it doing all it can or are there other tools to figure out what happened here at omg . Well, i think one of the most important things is they got their hands on apportionments. When you freeze funds in this manner, there is a written document that you have to sign. It is signed by a specific person on a specific date. And it explains why the funding is basically being held up. And what we have seen from the recently released depositions is that the house has their hands on the documents. They tell a damning story. In late july, mark signed off on a brief twoweek or so delay. After that he was pushed aside. And future delays were signed off on by politicals. Over the course of time, it was acknowledged doing so was illegal. The holds would prevent the funds from being spent in the fiscal year, which theyre not allowed to do. These apportionments tell a story. The documentings tell a story. What mark can do is provide additional color. What was going on behind the scenes . What kind of concerns did he raise . How is omg ogc involved . It is sort of unthinkable to imagine someone could sign off on this. Everything everyone knowsis this sort of action is illegal. So who was signing off on it, what justifications were being made, and who raised concerns and why were they shunted aside . Jackie, looking at what is being described by sam, political and professional folks within this department, Mick Mulvaney is not testifying, pursuing league course on whether he has to testify. If you have career officials testifying to the tkprapb hrar details. Its very important. What we have seen is exactly what sam points out, this constant pattern and tension between careers and politicals. You are seeing politicals tell one story in defense of trump and career officials come before congress under oath and tell a completely different contradictory story, a story of a lot of concerns about what was going on, political motivations. And then even broader and sort of being missed is big geopolitical concerns. That the president was endangering the status of ukraine and zelenskys new position in order to enact and protect them from russian invasion. Having someone like Mick Mulvaney is really important. At the same time, he might not be as forth coming as some of these career officials who are who dont have partisan motivations, have a lot of experience with bureaucracy and the way things work and dont have a dog in this fight, per se, other than being motivated by Public Service and doing whats right for the country. Shermichael, quickly, are you surprised that hasnt been more resonant with republicans on the hill . I go back to that lee zeldin quotation. Not the substance but the process. So much of that testimony centered on what jackie has described. Right. Career officials are painting a picture here that the white house chose political appointees to do their dirty work because they know individuals will be loyal only to donald trump. Think about yovanovitchs testimony. Officials going around here and officials doing work for the president s interest. The president is run the white house as if he is still over trump organization. Many are following unethical acts. We have yet to see how far this loyalty to the president will go. Does Mick Mulvaney want to be the fall guy . Does Gordon Sondland within the to be the fall guy . Well find out wednesday. Pete buttigiegs candidacy is surging before the next democratic debate. The mayor of atlanta will join us next. The mayor of atlanta will join us next. Surprise a new buick . For me . To james, from james. Thats just what i wanted. Is this a new buick . I secret santaed myself. 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According to a brandnew poll, Pete Buttigieg is leading the pack among likely caucusgoers in iowa. A quarter of them prefer mayor pete. Here he is reacting to that news. What weve seen is that our message is gaining traction with people across the state of iowa, caucusgoers who are concerned about the future of this country. A president who brings us together without sacrificing our values. Its been our message. It seems to be continuing to get us more and more support. It comes as 10 Democratic Candidates prepare to face off in the next debate cohosted by the Washington Post and msnbc. It will take place on wednesday in atlanta. Jackie, let me start with you and have you react to this. The Buttigieg Campaign playing this up. Yes, it is one poll. 73 days out from the caucuses. What does it say to you about what iowans are thinking of the Democratic Party to this point . Regardless of who you are, this is really good news for mayor petes campaign. But its also pretty shopping the maleability. He wasnt even in the top 10 last month. Voters are 8 points more undecided now than over the summer. So people are still making up their minds, even as we get close to the caucus here. But i think, you know i think that it speaks to this tension that is playing out in the Democratic Party now about the Elizabeth Warren versus mayor pete and joe biden and more moderate strain of the party. As we heard president obama say this past week, voters want more moderate candidates. Well see if that plays out at least in iowa. He is moderate. White. Iowa is majority white. Hes a good fit for the state. Mike bloomberg putting a foot in. Deval patrick jumping into the race. There is concern what that would mean for joe biden and Pete Buttigieg. As pete looks at these results, how much is that. He again, i think the introduction of the entrance to this race cant be that comforting for him. The middle lane is looking like it is widening. Patrick a strong candidate, having been governor of massachusetts, hes a strong candidate. Bloomberg brings immense personal wealth but the experience of running new york city. And again, its different to be the mayor. The entrance with considerable experience cant be comfortable. Nothing against mayor pete but iowa is a majority white state. It is. If you cant do well with africanamericans, i dont care if he wins iowa, New Hampshire, he cant be the democratic nominee. Thats number one. Number two, you look at the cross tabulations. Voters there still believe joe biden is the best individual to defeat donald trump. So im not convinced by this temporary boost the mayor has. It is still 70 plus days away. Who knows what will change a month, month and a half from now. If i was on mayor petes campaign, which is good, he needs to focus on South Carolina and beyond. If he cannot win in those states, he will not be the nominee. Not a huge amount of time. What is important, as i understand it, is the second choice for caucusgoers there. A lot of people are still undecided, as you said. But you have to factor in as you go to the caucus site who you back if your candidate doesnt emerge as a frontrunner. Melissa made that point. This is a boo buoying poll number for mayor pete. You go to New Hampshire and then South Carolina. But at the end of the day, if you dont have the support of black voters as you get to South Carolina your momentum can be crushed. And mayor pete hasnt made a convincing argument to why africanamericans should vote for him yet. Obviously theyre a monday mowlith. He has failed to answer tough questions about why africanamericans should vote for him. He was on meet the press last week and he gives vague responses. I agree with that. They had a bunch of surrogates from South Carolina im sorry, a bunch of people from South Carolina on their list of people who endorsed his plan. They said they didnt sign onto it. He has had some controversy here. He has had the biggest controversy play out i think during his run which, you know, could be problematic. Shermichael, you brought up joe biden. Let me have you react to this. You look at the polling and sees where he stands. Five Percentage Points since september dropped. Is that reason to be worried among the Biden Campaign that we are seeing in this most recent poll . No. Its absolutely no reason to be worried. And thank you for having me this morning. People underestimated joe biden. Hes been consistent. I think when you look at the strength in which joe biden came into this campaign it was to be expected that he would drop some. But to the point thats been made by this panel, it would be difficult for any candidate without a diverse sections of people endorsing the candidate to be nominee. Joe biden remains consistently high with a diverse section of people, primarily africanamericans, and i think that you will see him take that into the south. And we know that all roads will lead through the south. How do you read the entrance of Mike Bloomberg and former governor Duvall Patrick . What does that say about the shape of the Democratic Party and their sense of the need for more moderate candidates . I shared with a friend jokingly, my whole head hurts now. At the point i thought we would be consolidating the field we are now expanding the field. I do know Mike Bloomberg personally. He has been extremely helpful in the city of atlanta. I dont know Duval Patrick personally, but i know of his reputation. They are brilliant, wellqualified people. But i think its too late. I think so many people are satisfied with the field that we have in place. People are looking at four candidates right now primarily, and i think that it does a disservice to this entire process for us to continue to expand the process. We cant have our candidates fighting in a primary or election at the same time. It only makes our candidate weaker. We cant have a candidate who goes limping into november in the same way that Hillary Clinton did in 2016. And i think its important that we continue to consolidate. How worried are you about that . The limping that you describe, what this is going to mean for the eventual nominee. Well, it concerns me, especially if youre joe biden, who i have endorsed. Because he is now fighting in a primary and in a general election against trump. And i think any candidate needs to be as strong as possible going into november. And i think its time that we continue to look at the field that we have in place and continue to consolidate. I think that will be our strength as a party in 2020. And when i look at this president that we have now, i dont know of a president who has hated americans more than this president has. And i think as democrats it only does us a disservice to continue to fight about the small things when theres a really big war that we have to win in november 2020. Last question quickly. You have Mike Bloomberg, Duvall Patrick going beyond the early states. Atlanta, you mentioned the pofrpbts south. Do they have a point we invest too much on this handful of states when really it is the south and other places in this country that have more import as you look ahead to the general election . Well, i think as we look at caucus us and primaries across this nation we will annan opportunity for a crosssection of americans to weigh in. When we approach super tuesday, the southern states, we know that the south is going to be extremely important. And i think that once you get towards the south you will see a more diverse representation of voters that will likely help select the nominee. So we have seen strange things happen during the primary season. And we have seen people go up. We have seen people go down. But what i can say is joe biden consistently held on to africanamerican voters, specifically in the south. I asked my mother as i was preparing to go on today specifically what do you think of Duvall Patrick . My mother votes him every election. And she said who is Duval Patrick . That will be probably be representative of all of seasoned africanamerican voters. With that salvo, we will leave it there. Thank you very much. On wednesday, three days from now, msnbc and the Washington Post will host the next democratic debate. Rachel maddow Ashley Parker will be moderating that debate starting wednesday, 9 00 p. M. Eastern on msnbc. When we come back, the mistake a top official said he made. P official said he made for what you need. I wish i could shake your hand. Granted. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. 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Most people think of verizon as a reliable phone company. woman but to businesses, were a reliable partner. We Keep Companies ready for whats next. man we weave security into their business. Virtualize their operations. woman and build ai customer experiences. We also keep them ready for the next big opportunity. Like 5g. Almost all the fortune 500 partner with us. woman when it comes to digital transformation. Verizon keeps business ready. This is up. Im david gura. Newly released transcripts and tim morisons deposition shed new light on how the record of that july 25th phone call was archived. He says he was worried about politicization of that phone call so he advocated for restricted access to prevent leaks. He said the summary was moved to a highly classified server, part of the code word classified system even though there was nothing in there that could be deemed classified. Think about what secretary clinton did. Clinton exclusively used private servers. Clinton sent and received classified information over the private servers, and she destroyed 30,000 emails. I was on the same committee i think that one of the great crimes committed is Hillary Clinton deleting 33,000 emails after Congress Sends her a subpoena. Think of that. You cant even do that in a civil case. Not raising much alarm over a pivotal part of the impeachment story. That is Gordon Sondland taking a phone call from the president of the United States on his cell phone on the terrace of a restaurant in kyiv. Shermichael, let me start with you. Going back to this argument on substance versus process, it is amazing how the focus can be on the trees, not on the forest. These people look, i hate to say this. Its the truth. Theyre just lying. Theyre all lying. And i have to wonder why . Why are they ruining their reputations for donald trump who has shown himself throughout this process to not be loyal to anyone but himself . And i think for a lot of voters around the country, not Republican Voters because theyre pretty much tied to this president , but independent voters have to ask themselves, this is not what i signed up for. These are not the expectations i voted for if they voted for donald trump in 2016. While they try to defend this guy throughout this process, there is an election coming up. And democrats have an impeccable case to voters. Is that what you want four more years of . I think it will be a no. The servers came up again as we saw from jimm jordan. There is a short list of things they will go back to. Are you of the belief this is strategic, sewing that confusion is what they are trying to do. It does seem incredibly tunnel vision. I thought it was great they brought the receipts because they dont seem to realize this is archived on the internet and you can always get it. I dont know if it is designed to completely confuse and muddy the waters, but it definitely seems to be about shifting focus. Like there is nothing to see here when there is something incredibly orpbt to see here. And the democrats keep driving it home. Republicans try to focus on procedure. There is so much substantively wrong here. There is so much substantively wrong. Yesterday you brought up the restaurant in kyiv and what was discussed, what was reportedly discussed. The phone call happened as well. Sit a crazy thing that a diplomat on his personal phone took a call from the president of the United States in public, in a foreign capital, while people were around. He had to move his phone away from his head because the president was speaking so loud. We have that corroborating evidence that they could identify the president speaking. Therein lies a security violation. Republicans dont talk about it as much as they should because it is lost under the weight of all of this other substance. Thats right. Most National Security officials know ukraine especially is wired by the russians and that anything that is going over normal cell service is being monitored by the russians. A senior democratic aide texted me as the hearing was ending on friday and was like the dumbest part about all of this is that no one is actually going to change their minds here because hunter biden and her emails. At the end of the day there is very little incentives for republicans to buck the president going into 2020 because at the end of the day, this is the party of trump. And so long as it is, theres little incentives for them to come out against him. Go ahead quickly. This is a political process. You have to look at independent voters. When you look at the polling data and take a deep dive, those numbers are constantly shifting. And i think that does benefit donald trump. Well leave it there. Up next on up, John Bel Edwards won last night in louisiana. How that is spelling big trouble for President Trump in 2020. Roue for President Trump in 2020. Ar. Thats why im partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual checkup, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel physically and emotionally. But now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. Just find a period of time to unwind. A location to destress. An activity to enjoy. Or the name of someone to talk to. To create a plan that works for you, visit cigna. Com mystressplan. Cigna. Together, all the way. Visit cigna. Com mystressplan. Struggling to clean tough messes with wipes . Try mr. Clean magic eraser sheets. Just wet, squeeze and erase icky messes in microwaves and on stovetops for an amazing clean, get the power of mr. Clean magic eraser in disposable sheets. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. 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Welcome back to up. Im david gura. Good morning John Bel Edwards has reason to celebrate after he won in yesterdays Runoff Election beating rispone by a little over 1 . Widely seen as a blow to the president who visited that state three times in the last five weeks to support that candidate. Tweeting just yesterday, get out and vote. Lower taxes and much more. All in deep red states, the president s support only helped win one of them. I describe this as a big win going into the break for the president. You gently took me to task. Edwards won by 2. 5 . A win is a win. Similar to kentucky. The governor barely won, but he won. I give credit to democrats for that. Republicans did incredibly well in kentucky and louisiana. Louisiana they won by over 18 . Voters did not like the republican. When you look at the voters in question, they didnt have much move an impact on the governors race. When you look at state legislature it was a bit different. Actions and the policies. I think republicans have some cause to be happy and celebrate for. I watched a few rallies from the president. There say forum to them. He talks about what he wants to talk about. Hell bring up the candidate to bless them and back to what hes doing. Is that the issue if this would tell us how effective he would be as a campaigner, focus, surprise. Is he stumping for them in these races . Hes stumping for himself. Hes always been stumping for himself. Everything weve seen is about Donald Trumps personal interest. The other people are answer lci and we saw that. Incompetent governor in a deeply red state like louisiana. It also, hes a conservative governor but democratic standards and thats meaningful in a state like louisiana where its increasingly red even though the southern part of the state is catholic but deeply conservati conservative. Jackie, what do democrats do to capitalize on this . Hes still in office. There is a lot of talk about this being a bellwether for the race and for 2020. What was taken away from his victory yesterday. Democratic strategists that worked on Edwards Campaign said what trump did, they turned it into, he turned it into instead of a referendum on edwards, a referendum on trump. That could be a useful road map. Edwards is not your typical democrat. He did support the heart beat bill and he was fairly popular but again, this was a state that trump won by 16 points. So i think it doesnt bode well for him going into 2020. You brought up kentucky. Lets look at that race here. That is where republican candidate did embrace trump. Do you embrace trump or not . Is that an open question approaching 2020 . It certainly depends. I think the governor of kentucky was incredibly unpopular. He modelled himself after donald trump and voters there did not like it. His actions regarding police, his actions regarding teachers and thats why you saw the democrat win. I think many youre a republican up for reelection, i would be careful. Youre giving energy to the other side and when it comes down to races there are incredibly tight, david, you dont want to overly energize them. You could lose the race. You look at kentucky and virginia and what happened there if there are candidates that tried to reject the president. Sit possible if somebody wants to take that tack to do it at this point and not welcome the president to make it about local issues . It depends on where youre running. What republicans need to do is turn out as many voters as possible in these rural areas because trump really is struggling in these suburbs with the whole food soccer moms turned off by his rhetoric and they didnt make a lot of progress. Its a reason why im surprised they have come out and been a defender of President Trump. She only won by four points and her opponent did a killing on fundraising. I think that republicans do need to be very thoughtful and strate strategy. You bring up the gentleman from out of new york. My phone blowing up with retweets about elyce. Talk about what we saw on display in the hearing room. A lot of people surprised of somebody that backed romney made this jump to where he is and playing a role in the hearings she is hearing. Shes earning a lot of money on that performance. Life comes at you fast when youre elyce. She came out after the midterms talking how the Republican Party needed to lean into women voters and tack about messaging and a surprising 180. Part of it was strategy. She is one woman on that on that committee. I think shes the only one on the republican side on that committee and she was just there and she knew that she was up against this woman, this really incredible woman. She hammered in the points over and over again. Doing what the president likes to do, fight against the rules as they exist. Thanks my panel. Sir michael singleton, melissa murray. The top of the next hour, republicans and democrats ramping up for fireworks on capitol hill as Gordon Sondland returns to washington to testify and kal penn will talk about docca. Well be right back. Docca. Well be right back. Thousands of women with metastatic Breast Cancer, which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. Ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 metastatic Breast Cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. Ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole, and shrank tumors in over half of patients. Patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. Ibrance may cause severe inflammation of the lungs that can lead to death. 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The house to convene for open public hearings on tuesday. Its an important week with Major Players including one of the men at the heart of the ukraine scandal. Thats ambassador Gordon Sondland, who donated 1 million to President Trumps inaugural l committee and ambassador to the European Union and Deputy Assistant sec tarretary of defe laura cooper. Tuesday well see testimonies from two officials whose transcripts were closed doors were released this weekend and mike pence and Jennifer Williams and tim morrison. National security counsel Alexander Vinman and special envoy to ukraine curt vulker. His armer aid fiona hill will be on the hill on thursday. Her appearance could prove pivotal as she told house investigators bolton wanted no part in the quote drug deal that sondland, mulvaney and Rudy Giuliani orchestrated. The chairman to the senate of African American studies and an msnbc contributor and legal analyst and senior Vice President of the news school and clint watz and with us from washington is peter baker, he is the chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times and msnbc political analyst. Let me start with you and set the stage for what will happen this week with Gordon Sondland. Given what weve learned over the course of this weekend and what we heard in the public hearings, help us understand how pivotal that testimony is likely to be on wednesday. I think of all the witnesses well see, Gordon Sondland is most anticipated because hes changed his testimony so far. He testified behind closed doors in a deposition. In the interim, the other witnesses that have come forward offering conflicting testimony that he has now had to adjust to. I now recall he says telling a ukrainian official they needed, in fact, to announce these investigations in order to unlock suspended security aid. All eyes i think will be on Gordon Sondland. There is that episode and the episode with the phone call in ki kiev. He puts us into the room with the president. Every other republican so far, as republicans made clear, is offering their experiences and understanding through a distance. None of them had actually talked to President Trump this week. Yovanovitch, taylor, george kent, none of them had direct conversation with the president. Gordon sondland did. These people that told us what he told them, we now want to hear from Gordon Sondland what he heard from the president. As we learned from the transcript of the depositions released yesterday from tim morrison, at least a half dozen times trump talked with sondland running against what the president said. You can imagine sondland hunkered down with lawyers this weekend working on the opening statement. Yeah, i think there are two critical points here for mr. Sondland. One, is the direct conversations with the president , what david holms reported on friday, that donald trump had asked him on july 26th, the day after that call with president zelensky, so they will do the investigations and then sondland is going to be asked about and need to expound upon what he said about Donald Trumps state of mind, that he did not care about russia. He did not care about the United States National Security policy with regard to ukraine. That all he cared about were the bidens. That directly goes to whether or not a sitting president of the United States put personal interest ahead of National Security. Thats called an impeachable offense. The second issue for sondland is that based on what weve heard, even his revised testimony suggests that he was dishonest because it leaves out any recollection of that july 26th conversation. When he corrected his testimony, he didnt speak to that. Eddie, i keep coming back to Gordon Sondlands sense of selfsomething that comes across i think of him on the terrorist popping open a bottle of wine. I look at Tim Morrisons deposition. He said he was acting on trumps orders and said the testimony of tim morrison places the testimony in a more procarious spot. He said the sense was that he was communicating, Gordon Sondland was communicating and doing something for the president. Right, so on some descriptions of sondland lead me to kind of view him as this guy that is really excited about being in this position, kind of bum bling character. Made a career change. Hes very happy about it. He wants folks to know that. Also, he has to headacmake some decisions and choices and needs to prepare himself for what republicans are going to do. The dishonesty, hes going to be made the fall guy. They will try to throw him under the bus, and so if he comes in, the decisions that hes making with his lawyer, must include at least to my mind the calculous that goujordan and republicans l put it on his shoulders, that his dishonesty and excitement about being the ambassador to the e. U. Made him over reached and hes the reason this happened in the way its happened, not donald trump. Go ahead. I was just going to eddie is so right. As he always is. Its also this is why vulker we talk about sondland. Vulker is the one reporting on conversations putting giuliani as the mayors personal attorney that stated his golfs tal was t defend donald trump, not the nation, donald trump. Those stories have to line up, and the problem that the republicans should have, if vulker comes forward this week and tells the truth in a false way, filling in some of the blanks because he was inconsistent i would argue in his testimony of this is about the National Security interest of the United States. At the same time, hes saying and i told the ukrainians Rudy Giuliani is just Donald Trumps personal attorney. He is not representing the United States government. And then he is crafting statements with giuliani to hand to ukrainians what they should say about investigations. So for the republicans to throw sondland under the bus absolutely how are they going to throw vulker, as well, under the bus if vulker comes honestly, they got a hard problem. Clint watts, put into context what we heard in the public hearings this week, career officials, burro cats testifying going against the wishes of the white house to do that and say what happened. You look at Jennifer Williams, an aid to mike pence saying she thought that phone call was inappropriate. What we have seen in the transcripts in this testimony of speaking truth to power, people that worked for this government for sometimes three decades in terms of length doing that, thinking thats the right thing to do and the effect thats having on this investigation as a whole. Its remarkable when we talk about sondland. Taylor, yovanovitch, cooper, hill will be witnesses and then sondland. Who do you think will do the worst out there on capitol hill, right . In testimony, these are people with 20 or 30 Years Experience in the United States government that have served their country both in terms of the institutions and elected officials in the past and never felt the need to do this and now you have a guy that ran hotels who changed his story up and been completely inconsistent. I dont understand how this plays and i think eddie is exactly right. When you start looking at where the break is going to come and who wants to protect the president , sondland naturally falls ends up being the fall guy because these people are not going to lie. They are career Civil Servants. They will not make up a story to protect the president and were not filled in on the story. They cant even go and testify to some story about ukraine when they didnt know what it was because this was a parallel process of Rudy Giuliani. There is no way to have this fall any other direction. We had mark testify on capitol hill, rare saturday deposition and weigh in on what they heard behind closed doors. Lets listen to adam schiff a. There is a reason he pressed the president of ukraine to interfere in the election on july 25th and that is because he listened to the testimony of Robert Mueller on july 24th and concluded wrongly that he is above the law thanks he can invite foreign interference and there is nothing he can do about it. Cant indict it. There is nothing more dangerous than an unethical president that believes hes above the law. You saw the fairy tale story of adam schiff and changed it to extortion and changed it to the word bribery and today was a sobering reminder how ridiculous this impeachment hcharade is. I see a tweet coming across from Rudy Giuliani. Hes tweeting today, bribery is a disaster for dems. Loan guarantee for official action, firing a prosecutor, thats bribery. Requesting investigation of crimes without conditions is innocent. A lot of old tropes there and wrong tropes from rudy gun yiul. Nancy pelosi using that term less than capitol hill these days. You know, lets back up. Yeah. Lets back up. Personal gain. Whether its bribery, whether its extortion, i think the real problem here is that you could make out a claim for a number of crimes. The problem i think the democrats have had is there is so much you can say what is wrong with this the language keeps changing, which is why if the democrats really should focus on personal gain. Because remember, even richard nixon, the fundamental premise of his impeachment was abuse of power. Yeah. Abuse of power for his personal gain. Thats what the water break watergate break in was. You had the crime of certainly the break in but all of the other articles and even the break in were fund mentally how he is abusing his position as president to advance his own personal gain. Thats bribery. Thats extortion. Thats undermining National Security policy all to advance his own personal gain. Last question to you and you had a comment this week that was incredibly clarifying. It stuck with me. I was following as bill taylor was testifying and youve remarked then in that blog that what you saw on bill taylor with a lot of democrats is who they hoped Robert Mueller would be. Thats a career longtime Civil Servant turning over rock, saying something about it. Going on and expressing dissatisfaction about it. It was a treat to see that translated to a 1 the next day, the first page of the New York Times. Talk a bit about that, though. How important it was for bill taylor to testify in that voice for people to hear him and to play that role as you put it in the times. Yeah, i think, you know, he obviously stood out as the weeks most compelling witness in the sense he was, you know, hard for the republicans to cut down his credibility. They didnt really try. Served his country for 50 years starting at west point, number five in his class. Vietnam veteran diplomat, served as ambassador first appointed by george w. Bush to ukraine. All these things. He presented the facts that he was outlining in a very come welling unflappable way. He was not at all daunted by the tough questioning of jim jordan or anybody else. He suimply said this is what i saw, this is what i heard, this is my understanding. Nobody could knock him off that. It was clarifying in a way Robert Mueller wasnt. Robert mueller got up unfortunately and not able to compellingly describe his own findings. He would say i refer you to the report or yes or no or gave stilted answers and seemed to be having trouble with the narrative he was presenting. I think that bill taylor was so different in that regard. Remember, too, some of the other big witnesses we had against the president were flawed witnesses in someway or another. Michael cohen got up and testified for a long time but hes an admitted liar and going to prison for that. There are ways republicans could under cut the credibility. There is nothing he could do other than to say that look, you didnt actually talk to the president himself, did you . He said no, i didnt. He didnt try to pretend he had or try to put his fanger efing scale. He said im not here to describe what you should do with the information, im just giving you my testimony as the United States congress to decide what to do about it is compelling in that way and difficult witness for republicans to deal with. Peter baker, great to speak with you. Chief White House Correspondent. A lot more ahead and the project about immigration. Well talk about that. The search propelling pete bud judge and Kamala Harris finds herself, her campaign at a new low. S finds herself, her campaign at a new low. Now, theres skyrizi. Things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free to bare my skin yeah thats all me. Nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin thats my new plan. Nothing is everything. Keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. Of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. And skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. 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Kamala Harris Campaign staffers telling politico said planning and executing on a clear vision. Joining me this morning from the trail in des moines, iowa is nbc Campaign Barrett and the spanl with us in new york. Let me ask you, what weve seen on the ground, Pete Buttigieg with a quarter percent of the caucus goers in iowa. Whats he been doing on the ground. How has he translated that from the momentum weve seen here . David, i know the average american probably doesnt sit around on a saturday night. Here in iowa we do. This is the Gold Standard showing the state of the race in iowa and very accurate to what weve been seeing on the ground. His campaign has grown since march. He was pulling at 1 . Weve seen his growth as hes brought in more than 100 staffers on the ground and dozens of officers around the state as they were to engage the caucus goers in iowa and weve seen in this poll, as well, hes appealing to moderate view lane and a lot of voters here in iowa are looking for that right now, david. Eddie, let me ask you about that. Poll conducting this as she says its an incredibly solid poll. Were 73 days out and this is fluid. We could see another readjustment. The message that it sends that pete is where he is at this point. It shows the ground game has to be robust and you have to have folk on the ground. The blocking and k tackling is essential to success in iowa but in the same poll, 62 of those who participated in it, although they have a first choice say they are willing to be persuaded. There is 73 days to do convincing. Lets be clear, mayor pete offers, i think a very clear and reasoned position. He may appeal to middle class or the middle moderate voters. Mayor pete has to do better among minority voters. He has to do better among black voters. Iowa is a good moment but as we look towards South Carolina and we see what hes doing and what he hasnt done among black voters, particularly black women voters, we need to take this poll for what it is. I see you nodding. What could he be doing more . He proudly introduced this early on so this would be a markey issue for the campaign. What should he be doing more of to get that vote . I think, yes. As douglas said, he should get more credit for that. He came out early creating a plan that was about Economic Development for the black community, looking at the racial wealth gap. The problem that he has is connection. Its not enough to say i have a proposal, what black voters in particular and i think as well a lot of other voters of color look for is down my you undersy experience . Hes way down in the polls in North Carolina and South Carolina is much more important for understanding how youre going to do with minority voters than iowa because its the way that democrats win the primary in South Carolina. Doug jones will tell you something about how important it is to have black women on your side. What he doesnt communicate well and makes mistakes often is he doesnt understand the experience. If you say you want more justices on the Supreme Court and you dont name a third good marshall but you do name a Supreme Court justice who has done some damage to the black community, youre communicating that you dont understand the experience and that he has not solved. You share some personal experience, you and he. You served, thats a big case hes making and brings National Security background. Is there a limit to the residence of that . Sure, i think so. We got to remember, hes a white man from indiana. Hes doing well at iowa. Youre a white man from missouri. Im a white man from missouri. Thats i see some obvious things there but also, when you watch the debate. Do we really need two more candidates from new england . Thats what we got this week. Patrick, bloomberg. Weve got a field that argues about insurance rates and so when you watch mayor pete during the debate, youre like wow, he said something other than what my monthly premium is going to be. Thats hard to get people excited about. So when you look at the field, i think youre seeing the shift to the center, which is part of the bloomberg tack. Youre seeing people enter seeing this is an opportunity. We need to move ford towards t i want to go back to the news about Kamala Harris. She made a push to iowa and reduced staff to put the focus on iowa. What does that look like as you travel to iowa . How do you see things changing for her and how do you see the fracturing in her campaign described in the piece . I spent a lot of time the past month with Kamala Harris and like you said, moving some staff and laying off staff in New Hampshire. Really increasing her ground game here and while the crowds are relatively large and shes engaging, nobody is ready to say yes. That investment time, shes at 3 dropping from the last september poll alongside fuand wanted to point out while put it that way when it comes to confidence, he is the only one with the majority in the top four of the top fear there. All this fluctuation shows its really anyones game. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. All eyes are to be on mayor pete with the rest of the 2020 field this wednesday when msnbc and the Washington Post host the debate that will be in atlanta. My colleagues andrea mitchell, kristen welker, Rachel Maddow and ashley park wednesday at 9 00 eastern here on msnbc. Coming up, what to expect as we head into another week of live testimony. What does it mean for the Public Servants around the world . Thats next. First, saturday night live puts another trump scandal live with Pete Davidson playing the role of michael avenatti. Not so fast michael avenatti. Thats right. Im that name you just said. I got a bombshell that will change everything. The president had an affair. We know. Yeah. Oh, you do . Yeah, thats from, like, last season. Oh, all right. Very well. Maybe this will interest you. The affair was with a porn star. Yeah, we know. No one seems to care. A porn sta. Yeah, we know no one seems to care make fitness routine with pure protein. High protein. Low sugar. Tastes great high protein. Low sugar. So good high protein. Low sugar. Mmmm, birthday cake pure protein. The best combination for every fitness routine. The Doctors Office might mejust for a shot. O but why go back there when you can stay home with neulasta® onpro . Strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. In a key study neulasta® reduced the risk of infection from 17 to 1 a 94 decrease. 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Senior and mid level officers ponder an uncertain future. The crisis has moved from the impact on individuals to an impact on the institution itself. The state department is being hollowed out from within at a competitive and complex time on the world stage this is not a time to under cut our diplomats. The ambassadors point was reinforced by the president himself attacking her record as a diplomat. Everywhere Marie Yovanovitch went went bbad. She started in somalia, where did that go . With me to discuss the attacks is ambassador james melvo at the college of charleston. Nice to see you in person. Thank you. We saw how she reacted to that as chairman adam schiff read it to her. I want to get your reaction to it, as well. The point that somehow an am basketball to ambassador has to be responsible for what is happening. Its shocking. You expect that when you have the responsibility for National Security that you take issues more seriously and this complete disrespect and discounting of what our situation is and what our requirements are is a consistent theme in this administration starting from day one where they under secretary tillerson, the budget propels to cut diplomacy by over 30 and determined effort to call as many Senior Officers as possible from the professional service, and to bring in armatures and mr. Sondland is a good example of the people who are being put up by this administration as opposed to people like yovanovitch. You heard what he said and read her testimony and heard from the deputy and secretary of state. These are points they were making. This is a forum for them to raise issues they were talking about. Do you think that came across . People have a wider understanding how depleted the state department or changed the state department has been. I think so. I think, you know, the Career Foreign Service is always going to give good, Loyal Service to the nation. Thats the oath that weve sworn to protect and defend the constitution and thats our work. So even in a situation where you have people in leadership positions in the executive branch who dont seem to appreciate the need for that balance between the three branchs or any respect for the article one branch, the career people do. Thats why they are coming forward to testify despite orders from administration not to do it. Its almost as if the president has a view of his responsibilities. You know, it is absolutely deleterious to our best national interest, to our history its disrespectful and for those of us that take it very seriously, its shocking. Eddie, you have a secretary of state who said nothing positive about the diplomats who have testified, Marie Yovanovitch said she looked for her superiors to have her back and that hasnt happenedme. The silence from mike pompeo is deafening. You know something happened with secretary pompeo with chuck rosenburg. A fellow as even keel as you can imagine comes out on this network and calls him a coward. Unequivocal. Said he failed in his leadership of state. Fail in proekt thanksgivitectin women and he in so many ways how can i put it in my language, sold his soul to trump and the effect has been a deepening of the dismantling of the state department. And when you not only is the state is mean, to translate your french. Thank you. [ laughter ] but i alone can fix it. This is an extension of the way in which donald trump, right, entered into the office, thrown away the post world war ii consensus and given up on the idea of diplomacy being the face of the United States. Were the bad guys. We are going to see this in a later segment but in so many ways, the United States, the allure of our being the defender of the free world has in someways fallen on the wayside. Its not just the Foreign Service. You got to remember exactly. He has taken a pick ax to the government. The law enforcement, the things he said about the fbi. Good lord, the weather service. Yeah. So its unbelievable. Someone put up a tweet from richard engel, chief correspondent picking up on what eddie said a moment ago. The more i talk to sources the more i hear the betrayal of the kurds and squashing of ukraine makes people think we american haves become the bad guys hearing it was a gut punch. So weve centered the conversation on this hearing room in capitol hill without the apparatus, but the ramifications are huge in terms of how were respecting or guarded. This is very consistent. Ive been to europe a couple times this year. Swedish friend, we forgot about you americans. A german, we were talking about u. S. Telecommunications. This german individual said why should we pay twice as much to be spied on and pay half as much by the chinese. I would never in my life have heard that before. So when you look forward, when there is another 9 11 or when you watch secretary pompeo and goes around and tries to get everybody mobilized, that fell apart immediately. If you go a loalone, youre not going. If you have a foreign policy, how will you move that forward . Most remarkably what i havent heard from the democrats, all these candidates not even mentioned National Security, things will go back the way they were. They are not going back to the way they are. These friendships, these allies, these alliances were built out of things like world war ii, the cold war after 9 11, the global war on terror. Thats where these were forged was in pain. This doesnt just happen when we have one election. We go okay, or if its trump in six years, right . That has gone okay, well rebuild this. That doesnt happen that way. Very quickly, cameron, another former ambassador said there is a positive to this by seeing people stand by principle and do this and testify that will galvanize, not quoting but paraphrasin paraphrasing, galvanize within the Foreign Service community to do the right thing and youre someone that knows about that and you decided to resign on principle. Doing the right thing is always the right thing to do. Im not sure i agree with client. I really do hope that we will find our way back and i think our allies and friends want us to and that would certainly be in accordance with our values and history and the contribution that the United States can still make to global security. So, you know, the arguments in favor of us coming back are really strong. This is just a test that i really do have confidence the United States will get through. Mr. Ambassador, great to see you in person. Thank you very much. Up next, how the first week of live impeachment testimony is being spun this morning on the sunday show. Now comme new comments from house leadership after the break. Leadership after the break when customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Wow. Thanks, zoltar. How can i ever repay you . Maybe you could free zoltar . Thanks, lady. Taxi only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Applebees new sizzlin entrees. Now starting at 9. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. His haircut is nice. This is the mostawarded minivan three years in a row. The van just talked. Sales guy, give em the employee price, then gimme your foot. Handsfree sliding doors, stow n go® seats. Can your car do this . Man, yall getting a hook up and you dont even work here. Dont act like im not doing yall a favor. Yall should be singing my praises. Pacificaaaaa purchase and get 5,361 below msrp plus 0 financing for 60 months on the 2019 pacifica limited. Welcome back to up. Moments ago on abc, little back and forth here between two members of congress. Sean Patrick Maloney and Chris Stewart of utah on abcs this week. Lets take a look. If my friend Chris Stewart needs more direct evidence than chris, will you join me in calling on the state department to produce the mountain of evidence, emails, notes, call records, calendar entries, they could produce that tomorrow. Our committee has subpoenaed them, will you join me in calling on the state department to produce the evidence . You bet. Because i dont think there is anything there at all that is going to were kate the president. If you will join with me in calling to hear from the whistle blower we could protect his anonymity. We could protect him. How could you impeach the president of the United States and never hear from the person that started that process . Thank you for joining with me. I hope youll tweet that out so the white house gets the message there is a bipartisan call to stop resisting sat pubpoena. We heard from the whistle blower. You read the complaint. Pretty good. Ill start with you. Lets take those. Lets start with this evidence. You hear the complaint during the public hearings, its secondhand, thirdhand, we heard devin nunes say fourthhand time travel. Through that dimension to the rayburn building or whatever. Let me ask you about the complications being held at the state department. So many witnesses offered compelling testimony during the hearings and many points were asked. Do you have notes and memos verifying what is happening here . They have done that but in the state department being, i guess, reviewed or held. Held. I dont know if reviewed. We dont know if they are reviewed. Gordon sondland said ill turn them over if the state department would let me. We had witnesses saying they know there is documentary evidence. They, themselves would be willing to share but they cant. So two points i think that are important here. One is this is obstruction of congress that is impeachable. It is at the direction of the white house meaning with the approval of donald trump. So we should remember that, first. Second, this is not a criminal proceeding. The rules of criminal evidence do not apply in an impeachment. This notion that hearing from people with direct knowledge, they do have direct knowledge. The knowledge is all these people who have had conversations with the president have said the following things to me. Thats called knowledge. And that really is sufficient for congress to make a determination whether or not there has been an abuse of power that results not in jail time, it results in the possibility of a removal, that is not a criminal that is not a criminal consequence. So part of what is getting conflicted here is, is there a possibility the president committed crimes . Sure. But thats not what they are discussing, and the reason that is so important also then goes back to that its congress that decides whats sufficient evidence. It is congress that decides. Lastly to you, you heard what congressman stewart brought up, the whistle blower. We are so beyond that, yet, republicans dont seem to get that or understand that. You saw congressman maloney said we seen the complaint. Why is this a thing . The complaint refers to everybody out testifying right now. You would ask him and lets say the whistle blower did show up. Will you talk to the guy i was referring to on tuesday . Good. The ambassador, she was here on friday. It doesnt make any sense. Yeah. So the whistle blower has become like this sort of image, which they can project, which they are very good at this hashtag hysteria and can project this image of a hidden hand or hidden person controlling this coup as we could call it against the president. Ultimately, it doesnt matter. The whistle blower would say nothing other than what weve heard in other testimony. Eddie, lastly to you. Two points. Make them. One, how can i put this . These fakes are engaging in bad faith. I dont know how you deal with them when they arent dealing with you honestly. The second point, the point that collides with the folks dealing with president. They are actually defending a particular understanding of executive power. If we dont disentangle this, not just defending donald trump, we can get some things confused. Bad faith and executive power. Those are happening at once. Dont want to end without mentioning bill bar r doing tha. Wish we had more time to do that today. Big thank you to eddie, maya, clint. The high stakes supreme doca. That will be next. E doca that will be next. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. 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The most anticipated case over daca. It protects 7,000 young people in this country without legal status from being deported. If the court rules, the question is what happens next . While that historic decision plays out in washington, an upcoming episode of sunny side will highlight the human impact this Court Decision could have on dreamers. Joining me is actor, cocreator and star of sunny side to took a break to work in the Obama Administration house of liaison. Thank you for being here. Let me talk to you about the difficulty of approaching this. This isnt a political show. You are candid and frank about that. That this that this very hard. Theres a lot of comedy to that seeing communities like ours in funny, bizarre situations as a comedy should be was the point was to make people laugh but also make sure were represented. I remember growinge up, i love watching sieinfeld. I just didnt see people who looked likese us but those characters wereho obviously so iconic and sorelatable, we want to do that type of thing. Yp to those who dont know th neighborhood or this part of r queens. I went heret for journalism school. My beatur neighborhood was jackn heights. Take the 7as train. These are Diverse Communities and proudly so. Ansunnyside, we were lookingt whether flushing was where we were going tous set up. Thats a terrible title for a show. Sunnyside is uplifting. Also big irish population. Incredibly diverse but like new york city lyis, and its probab the best microcosm of new york is queens in general. The most diverse place in america if not these world. Ic its a Perfect Place to set a patriotic comedy. We wanted the show to be aspirational. Wanted to introduce characters like moses storms character. A great scene with him coming out tosc his frat brothers in ts upcoming weeks episode. We just thought there has to be a funny way to talk about issues that are fairly painful but for folks living them like very patrioticm americans who are dealing with this stuff. An and we wanted ed ted to bring light. There are xhecomedic aspects butc the anxiety these folks fl about whates might happen to th is son front and center and i manage there aret difficultiesn figuring that out. How tong hou think about how to represent themm in shows like yours. I think ashow lot of times f performers of colorr youre us to playing fairly one note characters. So this argument of, well, thats as good positive depictn of a person of color. Thats dehumanizing, too. You want your characters to be very flushed out and have flaws and not a be perfect to people d have hopes and aspirations just like the rest of us. For these five or six characters wever crafted, all immigrants. Moses character is the only one undocumented out of theon group. They all come from vastly different immigrant experiences. Theyre all americans. And oncee you get what makes tm tick, which often has nothing to do with the fact they happen to be immigrants, documented or otherwise, thats really where the comedy comes in. Thats where theirme arcs come from. So all of the characters are based on people we really knew or no currently. So moses character is based on a russian undocumented kid i knew in detroit that i met when we were shooting a movie. M deanna marie rivas character is based on severalct people. Eo so once you root it in reality of these communities and humans, the comedy comes and also you get to tackle some issues that are otherwise people dont necessarily knowhe how to quanty in a comedy. Youre out of politics, out of washington, but how much are youut thinking of these things . Theth widely held assumption of immigration wasd optimistic. This was an opportunity for so many people. In these last few years, thats changed. The optimism exists but its now blanketed withit a sense of fea that i dont think was there in the past like it is now. I wonder about the aspect of fear. I think for communities of color, a lot of us look at things andf go, yeah, this is just a heightened version of what igh experience in my daily lifee or daily interactions at work or with people at the grocery store. Fact that its being normalized, i think, is really scary for ain lot of people. And one of the reasons that we did this sodaca runner, its mo of the season of the show, is that we wanted to bring that sort of stuff to light. Communities in general say they want diverse aycontent, they wa characters thatnt look and breae and live and love like us in a fun, uplifting way. And were hoping thats a little bit of a counter to a lot of the fear and negativity out there. Hopefully were like a warm, patriotic hug for those otherwise nothu getting much lo. About the character coming out to his frat brothers, acknowledging who he is. That has to have been you must see b that as a positive t this program. This group of people now seen as one. The ee700,000 people fighting f these rights, recognizing there are others like them. Yeah. Thats a huge step, i think, in our world at least. The world we created much like i think the world that all of us live in whether you whether you are documented or not, were viewed ast, americans in our communities. I understand there are places ie america that dont view other americans that way, but im not interested in thet semantics o those communities and what they wish we werent like. Thats who we are and thats the story were telling and were not going anywhere. The reality is, you can say what you want about us and you can legislate however you think is best for you, but were not justu, sitting down. Look at thosest amazing brave young people thatin marched fro new york all the way down to d. C. Forow the Supreme Court hearing. Its reallyou inspiration poll. Cal, nice to see you. Thanks for joining me. The show is sunnyside. Coming up at the top of the hour, joy reid and the ramp up to the a hearings to take place this week. That ande more on a. M. Joy, next. You dont let a cold ruin your day. You take dayquil severe liquicaps and crush it. Dayquil severe. The daytime, coughing, aching, stuffyhead, fever, sore throat, power through your day, medicine. High protein. Low sugar. Tastes great high protein. Low sugar. So good high protein. Low sugar. Mmmm, birthday cake pure protein. The best combination for every fitness routine. As a doctor, i agree with cdc guidance. I recommend topical pain relievers first. Like salonpas patch large. Its powerful, fdaapproved to relieve moderate pain, yet nonaddictive and gentle on the body. Salonpas. Its good medicine. Hisamitsu. I thought i was managing my moderate to severe Crohns Disease. Then i realized something was missing. Me. My symptoms were keeping me from being there. So, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of Crohns Disease after trying other medications. And the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you, and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission is possible. That does it for me today. Thank you for watching. A. M. Joy with joy reid starts right now. Weve got a really busy year ahead as you can imagine. And so the president decided to go to walter reed and kind of get a head start with some routine checkups as part of his annual exam. Thats all it was. Very routine. Hes healthy as can be. I put a statement out about that. Hes got more energy than anybody in the white house. That man works from 6 00 a. M. Until, you know, very, very late at night. Hes doing just fine. You know, stephanie, hes almost superhuman. Well, good morning. Welcome to a. M. Joy. A lot to get to including the latest on newly released impeachment testimony that directly implicates donald trump. But first, you just heard that, right, a bid of the baghdad bob for you this morning with the White House Press secretary Stephanie Grisham who weirdly doesnt do press conferences but whose job is to appear on fox news and issue superlatives about the greatness of the president. While fox news personalities like Jeannine Pirro describe him as superhuman. The white house is going all out to say nothing to see here and the president is the picture of health despite an unannounced saturday visit to walter reed medical center. Lets go to kelly