0 story. >> great story. great reporting. thank you. >> that is "all in" on this monday night the rachel maddow show with guest host ale good evening, alex. >> thank you, chris. happy valentine's day, my friend. >> to you as well. >> my heart is warm. >>fr mine, too. and thanks to all of you at us this hour.ng it was february 2014, the autocratic pro-russian ruler of ukraine had just fled the country after being forcedle ou of officeco by pro-democracy street protests. in that confusing aftermath, soldiers began appearing in the southernld ukrainian province o crimea. theai soldiers had no identifyi insignia, and war plain green uniforms. and they came to be known as the littlee green men. some of them stormed crimea's regionalto parliament, they barricaded themselves inside and they raised the russian flag overde the building. the next day, more of these green uniformed men seized airports in crimea. within a couple of week, the whole of crimea was under the control of these little green men. they were clearly pro-russian. spokeey russian. and they were heavily armed with russian weapons. but russian president vladimir putin insisted they were not russian troops. he said they were local self-defense forces, acting on their own. and he couldn't help it if the people of crimea liked russia more than they liked the new pro-western government in ukraine. the confusion led to headlines from the bbc, russia in quotation marms occupy crimeaqu airports so it was cle to everyone on the ground in crimea that these were russian soldiers inth disguise but the entire russian government was denying top to bottom that they were g russian soldiers. nato and the u.s. kind of flummoxed how to respond, how do you stop an invasion when you can't get everyone to agree that there is an invasion. vice president biden went to poland and theon occupation of crimea was a done deal and putin announced that crimea was now partun of russia. fast forward to today. as russia once again menaces ukraine this time with 130,000 troops on the borders, a number that is growing every day, and now president biden, president biden, apparently wants to make sure his administration does not repeat the mistakes of 2014. according to a report this weekend in "the new york times," back then, it wasn't that the u.s. government didn't know what russia was up to. they just didn't tell anyone. quote, the biden administration is determined not to see a repeat of 2014, when nato was confused and caught by surprise when russian forces took over crimea's peninsula seemingly unopposed. senior obama officials recall their frustration when the intelligence agencies would not allow the white house to tell nato, let alone the public, what washington knew aboute russia' moves. i can remember a dozen times when i thought our interests would be banned, so we just told the world what we knew, said michael, the u.s. ambassador to russia when it annexed crimea. and so now, today, we have the opposite. the u.s. government declassifying and publicizing at breakneck pace what it says it knows about russian's plans, from the movements of russia's forces, to its alleged plans to launch false flag operations to new urgent warnings that invasion could come any day. according to the times, quote, the hope is that disclosing mr. putin's plans will disrupt them. it is quote information warfare between the u.s. and russia. not only do we, the american public, find ourselves caught in the middle of this information war, but so of course does ukraine. ukraine's president has expressed frustration with the ever-ludder alarm bells being run by the biden administration, worried that those bells will causerr panic in his country. ukraine's president is actually inviting president biden to visit ukraine in the coming days but that seems unlikely. "the wall street journal" reports today that not onlyee h the state department evacuated most embassy staff in ukraine's capital andmo moved essential staff to western ukraine, but the embassy itself has been essentially gutted. networking equipment and computer work stations have been destroyed. and the embassy phone system dismantled. 56 embassy personnel arrived at dulles airport in washington yesterday, carrying classified material, removed from the embassy in kyiv. second of defense lloyd austin is heading to brussels and eastern europe tomorrow to t me with defense officials. this as the pentagon spokesman said today is quote entirely possible that putin could invade with little to no warning. meanwhile, ukraine's capital this weekend, thousands took to theis streets in unity march, pledging to resist if russia invades. in just a moment, we'll be joined live by nbc news's richard engele who is in easte ukraine near the russian border. he reports tonight that way rations are under there, for the worst. >> with diplomacy going nowhere, this is not a good sign. russianis troops in belarus practicing urban combat. u.s. officials say this week is critical. declaring russia is now able to attackia with little or no warning. o so the u.s. is now moving its embassy personnel out of the capital to western ukraine, a move criticized by ukraine's president zelensky suggesting it showed weakness and zelensky was dismissve of u.s. intelligence which russia could soon invade which causes panic, february 16 will be thewh day of attack ande will make it a day of unity and he was referring to recent media report. presidentri biden spoke with president putin. no break throughs. todaywi russia's foreign minist met the russian president at the end of yet another long table. telling him there'sno still roo for diplomacy. putin in a tight covid bubble has met leaders at what seems like social distance, plus. russia says it won't invade. but in ukraine, some families are getting ready for war. training to handle an ak-47 is valentina, a 79-year-old retired accountant, and a great grandmother. >> do you think you would actually be doing this. >> translator: yes, if putin will come, i should be able to shoot, she says. >> joining us now, live from the port city in eastern ukraine is nbc's chief foreign corner richard engel. richard, great reporting. thank you for being with us. i know it is very early over there. you are about 30 miles from the russian border and even closer toru kremlin-backed separatists what can you tell us about the mood on the ground? >> reporter: so the mood here where i am is quite specific and unique. i'll get to that in a second but i think the mood across ukraine is a one of despair. people are afraid, people are angry, at what they feel is russia's inability to let go, and some of the history, i think it's really important, this country has been an independent country from the soviet union, from russia's sphere, since the collapse of the soviet union in 1991 and it has changed in the last three decades, culturally, embraced ukrainian language much ramore, which was highly restricted, ani politically, they have changed, and particularly in the last really ars, they have been racing toward democracy and they t began with a bang out of the starting gate, in the revolutionng in 2014, when joe biden was vice president, and they have been changing their political orientation more toward g europe, more toward na, over the last eight years, and now it feels that putin is saying notha so fast. you don't get to go away. due get to deny that previous history, you come right back into the fold. so there is this feeling that russia won't let them out of this relationship and move on. now, here where i am, very specifically,wh there's somewha of a different sentiment. i am very a far east. i am close to the russian border. close to thei separatist areas. and here, this is traditionally an area where they speak russian indigenously, many people are tiedan to russia, russia actual in some of the population that was so common in the soviet union sent native russians here. so in the end result, we have a population that is probably 25% actively, had is according to people i have spoken to, actively pro-russian, and might even welcome or support a militarygh intervention. 20 or so percent who would actively fight against it. pro-kyiv government. and would take to the streets to defend thean city. and maybe 60% in the middle that would take whatever comes. and that's a dangerous dynamic. because it means it's winner take all. if one of those two powerful activist factions emerges on top, they get the population with them. andp, that is the dynamic that putin is hoping that he'll encounter at least in the eastern parts of the country and there might be some resistance of passivity as well. >> i just wonder, richard, when you talk about that 60%, whether putin sort of is pledge rent -- belligerent, sort of the opposite effect, is all of this saying you can't leave us and now people digging their heels in and saying well now we must leave you? >> it depends on the region. i think innd kyiv, certainly, mt of the country, that is happening,of people are angry, with what russia is saying. but here, people also are connected to russia. they're watching the russian media. and it depends who your opinion leaders are. thereop is a community in this country, not a small one, that does believe the argument that the united states is whipping all of this up, that it is not pute within his 130,000 -- putin with his 130,000 troops and a massive assault,0 force, to go with them, that is surrounding this country thatth is the real threat, it is the united states that's whipping itry up. andhe they're taking their cues from russian television, and ironically taking it as well from the zelensky government which in trying to show strength is lashing out at all sides, lashing out at russia and also lashingla out at the u.s. for exposing a lot of the ntelligence, making people nervous, harming his economy, andng making him look like he's about to be invaded. which may be the case but he is hoping that it doesn't happen and he will look like he was strong throughout. >> i just have to ask you, richard, before we go, dlen ski maderi some news today by suggesting that joining nato, for him and his country, is somewhat of a dream. so i wonder what the reaction to that in ukraine was, and i mean is that, you know, the intent of maybe dropping the country's bid to join the alliance, what kind of reaction do people on the ground have to that? >> i think it was just the opposite. so one of his, when this country has been under a tremendous amount ofry pressure and when you're under pressure, every statement is parsed and there has never been this much attention focused on ukraine except for when zelensky watt at the center of another massive point of interest with the phone call with donald trump. and that factors into a degree, into the skeptical side, people sawic ukraine manipulated by th united rastates, for political purposes back home, and there is a skeptical community here that believes the u.s. is doing that again. but in terms of what happened with nato, one of the ambassadors, the ukraine's ambassadors said in aba bbc rad interview, that maybe there could be some flexibility on nato membership, and then he quickly went on air and clarified himself, although he had been pretty clear the first time around, but he said no, no, it was taken out of context and i listened to it, it didn't sound like it was taken out of context, butke zelensky made th comment anyway and still our dream and aspiration to be part ofur the nato and the eu which enshrined in the constitution which was modified after the 2014 revolution. >> everything is moving very quickly, richard engel, nbc's chief foreign correspondent, joining us tonight from ukraine, thank you, as always, richard. >> sure. joining us now is michael mincfall, a u.s. ambassador to russia when russia invaded and annexed crimea. thanks for joining us. in the aftermath of the invasion in 2014, this time the white house is being remarkably, some would say radically transparent about what is happening on the ground. what do youar think of that intelligence strategy? >> i think it's brilliant. i applaud it. i think it's the right thing to do. the fact that you have different leadership at the head of the intelligence, the head of the dni, the head of the cia, bill burns, and these are people with a lot of experience in the policy world that have a relationship with the president and his national security team, and are seeing the wisdom of exposing what russia is doing. so that there won't be these questions about, like you said, these little green men, that the whole world will know, g that i russia does decide to invade, if putin does decide to invade again, let me correct what i just said, that we know who is at fault here. >> independent of the rest of the enworld, is it calling putis bluff? is saying getting ahead of the news, if you blwill, getting ou in front of misinformation, or disinformation, is that putin's achilles heal, is this the sort of tactical play that the u.s. has been looking for vis-a-vis putin? >> well, i think it's the right tactical play, i'm not sure yet who's winning, because remember, putin is telling the whole world that his people and his people insideat ukraine, that all of ts is about nato expansion. when in fact, nato expansion, you know, he completely invented this as a crisis. there wasn't ant change in poli, about ukraine joiningin nato in brussels, and there wasn't a changebr in policy in washingto under president biden, president zelensky hasn't changed his views, he has been saying today what he has been saying for a long time, it is a long term dream that we aspire to but putin is the one that framed it that way and ipu think that's w the biden administration rightly is now pushing back, to try to change the narrative, and i would like to see them go farther by the way. i hear lots of people debating nato expansion and what gorbachevsi said, and jim baker0 years ago, i would like to hear a lot more about russia annexing crimea, violating one of the principle tenets of the united r nations, you know, that was established, the rules of the game in 1945, and what about talking a little bit more about recognizing parts of georgia as being independent countries? those are the conversations we're not having, and that is a victory for putin's information campaign. >> so you would like to see a sort of more wholesale reframing what is coming to pass ofhere, or what has come t pass. >> exactly. >> i guess i wonder though, is it for biden and the white house success, the radical transparency that we had assurances today from russian foreign minister sergei lavrov that negotiations with the west were quote far from exhausted. is this someone who is amassing 130,000 troops, right, on the border but at the same time is saying but wait, wait, wait, we can still talk. that evidence that the strategy of talking about the casualties, suggestinghe that putin doesn't reallysu truly grasp the evil tt is coming his way, or the pain that's c coming his way, i shou say, that that strategy is working, the fact that the russians want tork keep the doo to diplomacy open. >> well, of course i certainly hope so. ily mean they have i think run effective strategy of coercive diplomacy, arming the ukrainians, moving some of our soldiers touk nato countries, a threatening sanctions, and at the same time, have said very clearly to vladimir putin directly, the president has called him on saturday, if you wantca to negotiate about europn security, we are ready. and that tea leaves that you're reading there, alex, sergei lavrov he didn't say things by accident, hevr is still negotiating through lavro v, he did not say that by accident, he said it on purpose, that gives me a glimmer of hope that maybe there is still a a negotiated w out of this horrible crisis, because if there is a war, tens of thousands of people will die completely unnecessarily. >> we will take that glimmer of hope and hold on to it. former u.s. ambassador to russia, thanks forba being here up next here tonight, bad news for donald trump. as his long-time auditor cuts ties with h him. just as the new york attorney general's investigation of the trump organization is heating up. trump organization is heating up