The stock market tonight fell off a cliff when the president made his statement precluding any possible covid help. Even some republicans in congress are expressing shock and disagreement with the president s statement. Theres polling just out as of last night which shows that the American People by almost a 3 to 1 margin prefer for congress to work on a new covid relief measure before the election rather than trying to install the new judge on the Supreme Court almost 3 to 1. Look at that. Nevertheless, thats the opposite of what theyre going to do. So, representative alexandria ocasiocortez will be live here to talk about that in a moment. Ill tell you honestly though were sort of on the lookout for maybe a potential reversal from the white house on this tonight. And maybe the laws of political logic dont apply here. But if they do, this is something that should probably be reversed. I mean, even if you ignore the stark and terrible impact of a policy decision like this, the fed chair Jerome Powell today warned in a speech just today that things are going to get very bad economically in this country for no good reason unless a new covid relief bill gets passed and soon. The policy implications here are stark and very bad. And very easy to see coming. But even if you ignore how much damage this is going to do to the country, its also just terrible, terrible politics right now one month before an election to tell people youre getting no help. The government could help but we choose not to. All right. So, its i mean i suppose it is possible that this was some sort of president ial blurt, and he will try to take it back. Were at least on the lookout for signs of that. This announcement by the president was out of the blue enough that House Speaker nancy pelosi literally speculated on a Conference Call with her democratic colleagues tonight that perhaps theres something about the president s covid medications, specifically the steroid that hes been taking that might have affected his ability to clearly think this through. But thats that story tonight about the president precluding any help, any covid relief efforts before the election. That story tonight broke as sort of a shock a few hours ago. We are keeping an eye out for the prospect it will develop as a story further over the course of the night. Meanwhile with the latest news that yet another white house senior official, this time Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid19. The cluster of infections around the president and the people close to him is becoming almost hard to keep up with. Its becoming hard to track minute by minute. There are literally more and more people in the white house testing positive every day. It is hard to keep track of, but heres what weve got as of right now. The president has covid19, as does the first lady, melania trump, president ial adviser hope hicks has covid, also white house official Stephen Miller, thats new tonight. Also the press secretary, kayleigh mcenany, a bunch of people in her office, chad gil martin has covid and three other assistants in mcenanys office. Te house press shop alone. Im not sure how many more people there are in the White House Press shop. That might be it. The rnc chair Ronna Mcdaniel also has covid. Former white house adviser Kellyanne Conway is positive. Her teenage daughter claudia is now positive as well. Another Trump Campaign manager, the 2020 campaign manager, bill stepien has covid now as well. You might remember before joining the Trump White House what bill steppian was famous for was his role in the bridgegate scandal under chris christie. Chris christie is positive as well. He was involved in the president s debate prep sessions last week. Three republican senators have covid now. Senator mike lee of utah, ron johnson, Thomas Tillis of North Carolina who is up for reelection in a race thats is going to be no cakewalk, covid or not. Hes running against democratic contender Cal Cunningham in North Carolina. Another white house staffer who worked as the president s body man, a man named nick luna has tested positive for covid as has a military valet who is not being named but who reportedly was in direct contact with the president. Bloomberg news has named another specific military valet, a female military valet, who that News Organization says is also positive. But nbc news has not confirmed that reporting from bloomberg news. Other people who have attended White House Events in recent days or participated in travel with the president in recent days have tested positive, including the president of the university of Notre Dame John jenkins and the pastor of the Harvest Church in Southern California who attended a white house event this past week but also attended a big mostly mask free, no social distancing prayer march with Vice President pence on saturday. Also New York Times White House Reporter michael sheer has tested positive. He has told axios today his wife has now tested positive as well. The White House Correspondents Association says there are two other white house journalist who is have tested positive besides mike sheer from the times. Washington, d. C. Has just recorded the largest spike in new cases that the district has seen since early june. And its not known exactly if the infections at the white house and the president s immediate circle are responsible for the overall spike in d. C. , but the sheer numbers indicate thats a real possibility. And you know, i dont know exactly what consequences or subsequent behaviors we would expect to derive from a circumstance in the white house that is this nutty and this bad. I dont know what would be the right or expected or normal response to something this insane. But i didnt expect the response would be this. The Vice President now tonight mocking democratic Vice President ial Kamala Harris and the commission on president ial debates for wanting to institute some additional covid protection protocols for tomorrow nights Vice President ial debate. I mean, for reference, heres how the cdc defines a close contact of someone with covid, a close contact who should quarantine because of their close contact with someone with covid. Cdc defines a close contact as any individual who was within six feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes starting from two days before the onset of the illness in the knowninfected person. So, is Vice President mike pence a close contact of a known infected person . The president s doctor says President Trumps symptoms started on thursday. Two days before that on tuesday, Vice President pence bragged to a Campaign Audience he had just come from spending time in the oval office one on one with President Trump. If he wasnt lying, that would mean that the Vice President was in close contact indoors in a sustained way with the president two days before the president started showing symptoms. That would make the Vice President a close contact of an infectious covid patient. And he should, therefore, be in quarantine for 14 days. And i dont know if maybe the Trump White House just doesnt believe in that for some reason, but could he at least not spend tomorrow night breathing all over Kamala Harris . And the debate moderator, susan page from usa today . No, apparently this is remarkable. Last night the commission on president ial debates announced that they would put clear dividers between Kamala Harris and mike pence as an extra precaution for their debate. Given that the president is positive and the white house is a covid cluster and the candidates arent going to wear masks while they debate. It wasnt a proposal that they were discussing from one side or the other, this was something that was agreed to and announced by the Debate Commission last night. But now today is Vice President s staff is mocking the need for any precautions and say they wont agree to it. They say its not necessary. Sure, forget the scientific advice. Who would you trust more on the key issue of keeping vips virus free . Who would you trust more on that than the trump pence white house which has done such a great job of keeping everybody in the white house all safe right up to the top. Tonight joe biden told reporters that he does not expect that he will debate the president if the president still has covid and is infectious next week, the night of their next debate, next thursday night. And you know, on the one hand, duh, of course, if the president is still infectious, he should be quarantining and nobody should be around him, let alone somebody on a debate stage with him. On the other hand, with this white house, who knows. Even with him infectious, even symptomatic, they would be happy with him breathing all over joe biden and holding a maskless rally and having him purposely cough and sneeze on the doorknobs of the u. S. Capitol just to see what happens. Of course there wont be a president ial debate if the president still has covid and sill is infectious, right . Right . The number two official in the coast guard has now tested positive as well. His name is admiral charles w. Ray and number two official in the u. S. Coast guard. You will remember this past weekend, the white house held that rose garden event at which Amy Coney Barrett was announced as a Supreme Court nominee. The day after that event thats the event where you can use a seating chart from the Amy Coney Barrett announcement in the rose garden last weekend to create an Advent Calendar predicting the people in republican politics who have tested positive. Because of all of the people who tested positive from that event already. We dont know if that Amy Coney Barrett announcement in the rose garden last weekend was an occasion of mass infection, but again the numbers of people who are infected, including mike lee, senator mike lee here, seen hugging people and holding his mask in his hand, the number of people at that event and have since tested positive make it seem possible that was an occasion of mass infection. That was last saturday at the white house. Last sunday at the white house, the day after that outdoor event at the white house, which may have been a super spreader occasion, the day after that, the white house hosted another event. This one indoors with zero social distancing and no masks in evidence. And admiral ray, the number two official in the coast guard attended that indoor event at the white house. The day after the Supreme Court nominee. Admiral ray as did the president himself. And so, now, the day after that event with no protections in place at all, no social distancing, no masks, between that event and another pentagon meeting which happened a couple days earlier at which admiral ray met with other senior brass from the military, between those different occasions in washington which he was around other Senior Officers from the military, the list of senior u. S. Military officers who are now under quarantine is mind blowing, under quarantine as of right now. Chairman of joint chiefs of staff, mark milley. Vice chairman general john hyten. Chief of naval operations, army chief of staff, space force chief of staff, number two official, deputy commandant of the u. S. Marine corp. , national guard, the head of u. S. Cybercommand and the National Security agency. Theyre all quarantining now. Theyve all been exposed. Now, speaking of the nsa, the National Security agency, ive actually got news for you on that front. And this is exclusive to us. I am just breaking this news now. You have not heard this anywhere else. I mentioned that general Paul Nakasone who heads the nsa and cyber command, he is now one of our nations top military leaders, who are all under quarantine after being exposed to covid19. Paul nakasones predecessor as head of the nsa, his predecessor who ran the nsa under george w. Bush, Michael Hayden, ran the ceo under george w. Bush as well. General Michael Hayden is now retired from the military, retired from his long and often controversial career as a very high level military and National Security official. Michael hayden is not someone i would have expected this from, but i am going to show you now here exclusively something that Michael Hayden has just done for Republican Voters against trump. This has not aired anywhere else before. I am going to show it to you right. Watch this. Im mike hayden. I was the former director of the cia and the nsa. If theres another term for President Trump, i dont know what happens to america. Truth is really important, but especially in intelligence. President trump doesnt care about facts. President trump doesnt care about the truth. He doesnt listen to his experts. The fbi says White Nationalism is a real problem. And the fbi wants to do something about it. But the president doesnt want to talk about that. He doesnt keep the country safe. Its unbelievable. I was 40 years in the military, okay . Alliances are wonderful. Alliances are win win. And now i dont know whats happening to our alliances. I mean it. If trump gives another term, i think many alliances will be gone, and america will be alone. And thats a real, real problem. I absolutely disagree with some of bidens policies. But thats not important. Whats important is the United States. And im supporting joe biden. Biden is a good man. Donald trump is not. Michael hayden. His speech inflected there by aphasia, by effects of a stroke, recording that remarkable ad for Republican Voters against trump. What he says at the end there is i absolutely disagree with some of the bidens policies, but thats not important. Whats important is the United States. And im supporting joe biden. Biden is a good man. Donald trump is not. Michael hayden, again, george w. Bush era director of the National Security administration and director of the cia. Even though Michael Haydens sucker as nsa chief Paul Nakasone is quaraning tonight because of covid exposure, Paul Nakasone, participated in a remarkable joint address to the country today, i guess is the way you would consider it. It was a video that was addressed to the public from the heads of four intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies that are responsible for protecting the president ial election. Chris wray, head of the fbi, and Paul Nakasone, and chris cribbs whos the director of the Cyber Security and infrastructure security agency, both known as csisa, something i didnt know existed before they and the fbi started putting out joint announcements about adversaries messing with the election again this year. But this is an odd duck. Im not sure ive seen anything like it before. It is targeted to us, the public. And it is a warning that our 2020 elections are being targeted by bad actors. Its a threat, particularly from the head of the fbi, that bad actors will be caught and punished for messing with our elections. But its also a pep talk to us, the public, that we can do it. That despite these threats to our election and the serious nature of them, we as americans will choose our own leaders. We can do this. We need to vote. We even ought to be volunteers to work as election workers ourselves. This is remarkable. Watch this. Were not going to tolerate foreign interference in our elections or criminal activity that threatens the sanctity of your vote or undermines Public Confidence in the outcome of the election. Foreign actors are spreading disinformation and attempting to sway voters by executing influence operations. They are using an array of cyber activities with the intent to gain access to our election infrastructure. Theyre also attempting to collect derogatory personal information from candidates, campaigns and prominent americans. Despite these nefarious efforts, our election system remains resilient. To be clear, it would be very difficult for adversaries to interfere with or manipulate Voting Results at scale. Securing our election requires a whole of society approach. Every american has a role to play, especially since the American Voter is the primary target of these foreign influence and disinformation efforts. As americans, we are all in this together. I encourage you to stay informed and vote. By doing so, youll not only help protect our elections but also send a clear message to our adversaries. We decide who elected officials are. The American Voters will decide american elections. And you, as the American Voter, are the last line of defense. By being a prepared, participating and patient voter. Prepared by having a voting plan, no matter how youre voting. Participate by volunteering to be an election worker if you can. And be patient. Because of the changes due to covid, on november 3rd, we might not know the outcome of our election. And thats okay. But were going to need your patience until official results are announced. So, get out there and vote with confidence and be a part of protecting 2020. Chris krebs speaking alongside bill evan nina, speaking alongside christopher wray, speaking alongside Paul Nakasone, all of the heads of the Law Enforcement intelligence agencies tasked with protecting the election from crime and interference this year. I dont know if the Trump White House knows that this is what their intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies are doing in this messaging to the public ahead of election day. But boy does that kind of stuff from those officials contradict everything we are hearing from the president . Especially the vote, vote, vote part. As of today, we are exactly four weeks from election day, which seems impossible to believe, but its true. Facebook today Just Announced a sweeping ban of accounts and postings linked to qanon, the trumpsupporting, evergrowing conspiracy cult that says, among other things, that democrats eat babies and all democrats and lots of hollywood celebrities are all about to be rounded up by the secret other people who are waging war on them. Recently qanon folks said that trump doesnt really have covid. The whole reason he went to walter reed was just to cover up for the fact that he was really leading a secret covert op against the satanic baby eaters. Qanon thrives on facebook in particular like mold on a hot bag of wet bread. Facebook is announcing tonight that it will take down all qanon pages and groups and profiles. This is going much further, and its a much larger action than any previous effort theyve taken to try to take action against what they consider to be a violent conspiracy cult. The New York Times tonight just in the past hour endorsed Vice President biden with this long new editorial, elect joe biden, america. The former Vice President is the leader our nation needs now. With exactly four weeks to go until election day, heres basically where joe bidens chances stand today in terms of the election. A new cnn National Poll released today shows joe biden with his National Lead in the race so far. Among likely voters, biden leads the president in this poll by 16 points, 57 to 41 . Prognosticators watch for one candidate to hit the 50 threshold as key indicators of electability. Here biden is at 57 in this National Poll. The cnn poll was conducted after the first president ial debate and mostly after President Trumps Coronavirus Diagnosis was made public. And while that 16point biden advantage may seem unlikely, it may seem like a bit of an outlier given just the size of that lead, its worth noting that an nbc wall street journal poll released just sunday showed biden with a 14point lead among registered voters. Thats in keeping with the margin. That nbc wall street journal poll was conducted after the debate, but before news emerged that the president tested positive for covid. As bad as the National Polling is for the president , its the state matchups that of course count since thats how we pick the winner. In pennsylvania, a new Monmouth University poll just released today shows biden up by 12 points among registered voters in pennsylvania. Last month that showed him with a 4point edge. Now theyve got biden plus 12 in pennsylvania. In michigan, Vice President biden is up 9 points according to a brandnew wdiv detroit news poll. And like in pennsylvania that same michigan poll showed biden beating the president last month, but gaining ground on him last month compared to this month. In arizona, another key swing state, a new New York Times sienna poll shows biden leading trump by 8 points 49 to 41 in arizona. The one bit of polling news seems to be in florida, a new suffolk University Poll in florida that shows trump and biden tied in florida. Most polls recently have shown biden with a narrow lead in florida. But the Suffolk University today polls shows them both at 45 . Again, thats florida. So, theres four weeks to go. This election like no other. More than 4. 7 million americans have already cast their ballots in the president ial race with four weeks still to go before election day. That number of voters, 4. 7 Million People having already voted. Thats more than 50 times the number of people who had cast their ballots by this time in the race in 2016. More than 50 times as many people have already voted compared to this time four years ago. And the polling right now when millions of people are voting is not good for the president s reelection effort right now. That said, him proclaiming today four weeks out that republicans insist on no covid relief for the American People at all before the election, thats not going to help him much either. More than that though, more than the politics of that, no covid relief in the election is going to be a body blow to the economy, to whole categories of struggling businesses, and to lots and lots and lots of americans, particularly unemployed americans who have been stranded by this pandemic, who now know the president and his party insist on them getting no help at all. Why are they doing this . What a time . What a thing. Representative alexandria ocasiocortez joins us live next. Plus well hear from the chairman of the medical division at ucsf. We got lots to get to tonight. Stay with us. These folks, they dont have time to go to the post office they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps. Com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the services of the post office plus ups only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. The fallout from President Trump taking a sledge hammer to any hope of some sort of covid relief bill today, the fallout from that was not what you would call subtle. Within minutes of the president such shutting down negotiations on any covid bill until after the election, the dow dropped suddenly and sharply. Heres what that looked like. The president made the scorched earth move on covid relief and boom off a cliff. Former Vice President joe biden didnt mince words in response either. He said, quote, make no mistake, if youre out of work, if your business is closed, if your Childs School is shut down, if youre seeing layoffs in your community, donald trump decided today that none of that matters to him. This honestly baffling announcement by the president today will be felt by every american as our country continues to struggle by this epidemic. But it wont be felt by every american equally. New york states 14th Congressional District includes parts of the bronx and queens. Its one of the hardest hit districts in the country in terms of coronavirus deaths and cases, but also in terms of poverty and income inequality that have been made worse by this terribly botched federal response to this ongoing pandemic. The good people of new yorks 14th district are represented by congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez who today herself did not shy away from calling this an antieverybody agenda, saying the president and the Republican Party are walking away from getting any covid stimulus relief done, effectively endangering millions after they themselves got covid and enjoyed free socialized health care. Also they can push through an antic aca Affordable Care act Supreme Court pick. Joining us live is alexandria ocasiocortez of the great state of new york. Her district has been called the epicenter of the epicenter. Its nice to see you. Thanks for making time tonight. Of course. Thank you for having me. Ive seen some of your initial reaction online to this decision by the president that there will be no covidrelated help to the American People at all before the election. But i wanted to ask you specifically in the context of your district because your district has been so hardhit, what do you think the impact of this decision will be . Well, you know, i think new yorks 14th Congressional District is really a microcosm for the entire country. And were also a bellwether. Whenever the country is about to go through something incredibly traumatic and severe, it often hits my district first. We saw this with covid and the pandemic. Our district was hit heaviest and hardest first before the waves started echoing across the nation in terms of covid cases spiking. And were already starting to see warning signs of the severe economic and Health Fallout that is to come. We are on the brink of an eviction crisis, a mass eviction crisis here in our district but also across the country. 30 million to 40 Million People are at risk of being evicted because the president has decided to walk away from every working person in this country. Now, thats before we even get to mortgages. Its before we get to unemployment extension. Its before we get to an another second stimulus check. In addition, just as were entering the fall, we are at risk of a second spike. And what we are seeing here in new york city, which is a city that has some of the strictest covid guidelines and some of the highest rates of maskwearing adherence in the country, we are still starting to experience areas where theres a second where theres kind of a second spike. Nine zip codes in new york city are at risk of being shut down totally or partially due to a secondary fall wave. Now, if we decide and if the president and the gop follow through with walking away from covid relief, we are looking at one of we are staring down the barrel at one of the largest mass eviction crises in the history of this country since the great depression. Thats what were looking at. Were looking at a potential second wave that could be catastrophic. We are looking at the potential of hunger in the United States exploding on a level that we have never seen since the great depression. And all of it is preventable. All of it. All we need to do is authorize a second stimulus check. We need to make sure that we get state and local funding so that municipal governments can stay above water at least through the end of the year. We need to make sure that we are funding largescale testing and tracing programs. And we need to make sure that were really developing a vaccine responsibly and not pushing one out for the sake of an election. One of the things that i think is so baffling about this decision, i mean, even if you ignore the real world impact that you were just talking about there at length and detail and with eloquence, even if you ignore the real world impact, politically this is something that is inexplicable. We are four weeks from the election. The American People are in a tough situation coast to coast. Some of the states that are having the biggest spikes right now are deep red states that are very supportive of the president and they are radioin pain right now both in terms of covid and Economic Impact of it. Its strange to me. And i dont understand it. It makes me watch for a potential reversal here or some sort of move behind the curtain that were not expecting. I wanted to ask you though how you think this interacts with the president being diagnosed and what appears to be a large white house cluster and all of these people in republican politics and the upper echelons of the white house testing positive . That just seems like one other element of this that makes this decision almost unbelievable, let alone a surprise. You know, it is unbelievable. And on one hand, you know, i think that theyre just kind of drinking their own koolaid. They really started to believe that masks didnt matter, that rapid tests, which we had known were less effective, were acceptable before a mass superspreading event. They didnt even seat those they didnt even put those seats six feet apart outside. So, theres a certain just basic denial of science and lack of acceptance of science that were looking at. But, you know, additionally, the president is not in a good condition. He just was diagnosed with covid. His oxygen levels were in perilously low areas over the weekend that were extremely concerning and then were supposed to believe that everything is absolutely fine right now when we were receiving conflicting medical reports from both the white house chief of staff mark meadows and some of the physicians that were hearing at walter reed. Now, i dont think that we should be making any large political decisions when the president is in such a perilous in such a perilous medical state. He is still receiving interventions in treatments and were in the middle of talking about and making dramatic decisions about what is happening with the covid stimulus. Not only that, but hes also directly conflicting himself today. He retweeted the federal chairman Jerome Powell, which is saying that congress cannot do enough when it comes to critical Economic Indicators like inflation, when it looks at when were looking at joblessness. There is the fed is basically telling us that there is no program too big that we could authorize. We cannot effectively spend enough right now. And the president retweeted that while also saying that hes going to walk away from relief. He is absolutely and the entire white house staff. And by the way, every single republican senator that is enabling him this is also about lindsey graham. This is about mitch mcconnell. This is about susan collins. And yes, this is about making sure that we elect rather that our republican senators who are enabling this are allowing our economy to risk free fall because if we had a vetoproof majority in the senate, we could get this done without him. But the Senate Republicans dont want to pass a covid stimulus bill either. And thats why we are in the position that we are in today. Congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez of new york. Its a pleasure to have you with us tonight. Thank you. Stay safe. Much more news ahead here tonight. Stay with us. Its totally normal to have constipation with belly pain, straining, and bloating, again and again. No way. More exercise. More water. And more fiber is the only way to manage it. Is it . Maybe you think. Its occasional constipation. Maybe its not. It could be a chronic medical condition called ibsc, and time to say yesss to linzess. Linzess works differently than laxatives. It helps relieve belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. Do not give linzess to children less than six and it should not be given to children six to less than 18, it may harm them. Do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. Get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. The most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. If its severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. Other side effects include gas, stomach area pain, and swelling. Change your thinking to ibsc. If your constipation and belly pain keeps coming back, tell your doctor and say yesss to linzess. This is a fastmoving news environment right now, and i imagine that it will be over these next four weeks. Weve got an update on a couple of stories weve been covering tonight just since on the air. First of all, nbc news is reporting in the past couple of minutes that Vice President pence will not object to there being a plexiglass barrier between him and senator Kamala Harris at tomorrow nights Vice President ial debate, despite the fact that he and his team have been mocking the Vice President ial nominee of the Democratic Party for going along with that after the commission on president ial debates announced it last night. He will not object so they will have those plexiglass dividers between the candidates. Also the New York Times reporting two interesting developments out of the white house under headline trumps return leaves white house in disarray as infections jolt west wing. The times describes some white house Staff Members as worrying about President Trumps behavior, including today, calling off the congressional Coronavirus Relief bill talks suddenly, might have been spurred by the cocktail of drugs he has been taking to treat the coronavirus, including dexamethasone, a steroid that can cause mood swings, can give a false level of energy and a sense of euphoria. White house Staff Members wondering whether the president s behavior is affected by those potentially moodaltering drugs. The white house also conceding tonight to the New York Times, white house officials conceding tonight to the New York Times, that although there has been an impression created that President Trump was getting tested every day, the president has not been getting tested every day, according to two people familiar with the practices. This, of course, puts a new cast on the refusal of the president s doctors to say when he last tested negative for the virus, which of course is important in terms of figuring out who else he might have exposed and what else he might have done while knowing that he was at least potentially infected with coronavirus, if not exposed if not just exposed to other people around him who were known positive cases. Joining us now is dr dr. Walkner. Hes chairman of the department of medicine at the university of california at san francisco. Its an honor to have you with us tonight. Thank you for making the time. Thank you rachel. Pleasure to be here. Ive been thinking all day about talking to you and ive gone through about 30 Different Things to ask you news has overtaken a lot of that planning. I have to ask your reaction first of all to the news that apparently there will be plexiglass dividers between the candidates on stage tomorrow night. Do you think that is sound science . Do you think thats wise . Its wiser than not. I think it would be even safer if the candidates were in different physical spaces. But if theyre going to be in physical spaces and share physical space, being 12 feet away, plexiglass, having people tested persist at the present timely negative that feels reasonably safe. In terms of the Vice President s potential exposure, we are told by the president s physicians that the president himself was showing symptoms on thursday. Vice president pence says that he was with the president inside the oval office two days before that on tuesday. If that timeline is right and again thats the white houses own time line should Vice President pence be quarantining away from all other people, even if he continues to test negative over these next few days . Well, we know that the average persons infectious a day or two before they have symptoms. So, that timeline would make you worry that Vice President pence was exposed, and therefore he should be staying away from other people until he has a number of negative tests to be 100 on the safe side. Dr. Wachter, theres been what i sort of previously consider to be some loose talk about whether we should worry about the president s ability to carry out the duties of the presidency, given the covid treatments that hes taking. Whether or not specifically the steroid that hes taking is something that might have cognitive or moodaltering effects on the president that should worry us in terms of the kinds of decisions hes making. Ive considered that to be, sort of, people overworrying. But now weve got news from the New York Times that there are white house officials who are worried about that, the speaker of the house gave voice to that worry tonight. Are we overthinking this, or is that something that is potentially a real concern . I dont think were overthinking it. Its hard to say for sure without him being examined by physicians, and i would love it to be independent physicians. What we do know is that not only does that medicine, dexamethasone, frequently cause mood swings, even manicness, euphoria, but covid can also alter your thinking. And particularly in elderly people. When an older person comes into the hospital, theyre not thinking clearly and confused, the first thing we think about is infection. For a 74yearold man to have symptomatic covid, low blood oxygen which can alter your thinking and be on dexamethasone raises the possibility that his thinking is altered, his judgment is altered from the medications, and part of the problem is if he is is one responsible for figuring out whether hes thinking clearly, that not a good plan. I would say of the hundreds and hundreds of patients ive taken care of who have altered thinking, its not at all infrequent that they have no idea. Its one of these things that happens. I cant say for sure that theres a problem here, but it certainly is possible given the medications, the low blood oxygen and the infections itself. Dr. Wachter, youre saying some stuff that is rattling me a little bit. Im going to break the rules and ask if you dont mind sticking with us. So i can ask you a few clarifying questions because youve unnerved me a little. Would you mind staying with us . Happy to. Dr. Wachter is the chair of ucsf department of medicine. Hell be right back with us after this. Nesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps. Com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the services of the post office plus ups only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. Joining us now once again is dr. Robert wachter, chairman of the department of medicine at the university of california san francisco. Dr. Wachter, thank you for sticking with us. Pleasure. Before we before we took that break, you were affirming the concerns that have been voiced by anonymous white house officials tonight to the New York Times, and that weve heard other people discuss in recent days, that the president may be impaired in his decisionmaking and his thinking, both by covid and potentially by some of the treatments that hes on, specifically thinking about that steroid. You said that among the hundreds of patients that you have treated who have had some sort of impairment like that, you wouldnt trust them essentially to decide whether or not they are impaired. As a physician, is there the is there testing that you do . Is there a way that you can discern whether or not somebody is impaired in their thinking or their ability to understand or impulse control or anything else that might be affected by these drugs or by this illness . Well, its a little tricky because obviously some of this depends knowing their baseline personality. Whether someone is manic, is that the way they are normally, or is this normal or are they acting erratically. Whether he requires something quite that formal or something a little less formal, the key point is it certainly is possible. It would not be shocking, given his condition and the medications, that there is there are alterations in his thinking and his judgement and he should be assessed for that by someone who is who is other than him. Just to be clear, you believe, as somebody who with experience treating Covid Patients and administering the kind of treatments that Covid Patients with serious illness have had that there should be that kind of assessment done of the president now medically . Now, its possible his physicians are doing that. In fact, hes being seen by physicians every day, and i assume one of the things theyre doing, which would be routine in a patient with covid and is on steroids is to assess this thinking, his judgement. So i cant say that thats not being done. I just hope that it is being done and i its going to be important that they render their judgement independently. I mean, one of the concerns, of course, is that this is not only their patient but their boss, and and clearly when we heard the press conference the other day where the physician was saying im im basically playing to my boss and i dont want to give you too much bad news because hes watching. You know, just think about the position theyre in. Its extraordinarily difficult. But its incredibly important that we get this one right. Dr. Robert wachter, chair of the department of medicine at ucsf, sir, thank you for being here. Thanks for sticking with me. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Oh, that is sobering stuff. 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Find your fitscore and get your answers today to get the most out of medicare. Call the number on your screen or go to healthmarkets. Com call now. I decided that i wanted to go for Electrical Engineering and you need to go to college for that. If i didnt have internet in the home i would have to give up more time with my kids. Which is the main reason i left the military. Everybody wants more for their kids, but i feel like with my kids, they measurably get more than i ever got. And i get to do that. I get to provide that for them. That is going do it for us tonight, i have a feeling this is going to be one of those nights where the news doesnt stop. Ill see you again tomorrow night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern for our predebate coverage ahead of the Vice President ial debate. And you can watch the whole Vice President ial debate live here without interruption on msnbc. Ill see you then. Way too early with casey hunt is up next. One of the reasons that trump was feeling so peppy because shes jacked to the steroid dexamethasone. Ive had them. Eisenhower had a heart attack, and when he returned to the white house, he looked like this. President trump still being treated for coronavirus. But back up and tweeting, comparing covid to the flu, killing and then reviving talks over a relief bill and
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