2016. On the left, congressman Chris Collins who was indicted on Felony Charges less than two weeks ago. He was the first to endorse donald trump for president. And then on the right side, thats congressman Duncan Hunter. He was the second sitting member of Do Know Support donald trump for president and now today he too has been indicted on multiple Felony Charges. Who was third . As i say, congressman Duncan Hunter probably considers himself lucky today. If youre going to get indicted, today was probably a pretty good day. Because the news of his indictment arrived on a day like no other. In this remarkable scandal ridden candidacy. We actually called Michael Beschloss to ask if theres anything like this. Has there ever been a single day in the news for any u. S. President that held similar
come one in u. S. History would be march 1st, 1974. That produced this headline the next day. March 1st, 1974, was the day a grand jury indicted Richard Nixons campaign manage here he had named Attorney General and the president s top two aides in the white house and a bunch of other white house nixon staffers. The critical catastrophe for nixon that day, march 1st, 1974, is that nixon himself was named as an unindicted coconspirator by the grand jury in that criminal behavior. And those findings of Criminal Activity by president nixon, those were ultimately handed over to congress for them on impeach him. Tonight President Trump is not facing impeachment. He is doing a rally in west virginia. But his Campaign Chairman and his long time personal lawyer are both convicted felons, as of tonight. And there is tremendous interest
him guilty. On those eight guilty verdicts, the defense could appeal. So well get more Expert Advice on this. It turned out the whole story about the Federal Savings Bank in chicago worked out and how the jury viewed Paul Manafort basically offering Trump Administration jobs to the ceo of that bank in exchange for him offering manafort millions of dollars in loans, the way the jury saw that turns out to be fascinating. There are three things on watch when it comes to manafort now. Specifically, potentially the president s own fate as it relates to Paul Manafort. Three things to watch. The first two are logistical. Number one, will manaforts defense team feel eight Felony Choornlgs which he was found guilty . Also, will the government try on Charge Manafort again to the other ten felonies on which there was no verdict . So logistics. Is this trial over . Are these 18 counts settled . Or will they continue to be litigated . Thats one thing to watch. The second logistical thing to watch. After these convictions today on these eight Felony Charges, how much better or worse does manaforts fate look for his next felony trial which after all, starts in less than a month in federal court in d. C. This was manaforts trial in virginia. He is about to go on trial in less than a month in d. C. And tonight is the deadline for prosecutors to list that they are planning to use next month. We are expecting over the course of this evening, sometime Tonight Torsion get access to that Evidence List. Were expecting that it will contain well over 1,000 individual pieces of evidence that prosecutors will use in their case against Manafort Next month. When we get Evidence List tonight, presumably it will land
like an anvil on the manafort defense team. Right . It will come just hours after the client was convicted on eight Felony Counts in a different federal court today. Two things on watch. It will be fascinating to watch. The third thing on watch here when it comes to manafort. With these, the Trump Campaign manager is facing a maximum sentence of 80 years in prison. Now, he wont get 80 years in prison. Realistically, according to the sentencing guidelines, he is looking at realtime, maybe seven to nine years. And he is about to face another felony trial against the same Special Counsels office who just got him could not voiktd eight felonies and thats coming up in less than a month. You see where this is going. The last thing to watch when it
Rachel Maddow takes a look at the days top political news stories. Face in his new trial next month. Were going on get some Expert Advice on this. Whatever math Paul Manafort has done in his head about whether or not he wanted to flip and help prosecutors and any other work on any other cases, including cases potentially involving the president , that math might have changed today when the jury pronounced him guilty. So it is half of what is looming today. Does Paul Manafort feel differently enough that he might be willing to talk . Thats half of what is looming. And then there is the president s personal lawyer. The judge. Lets begin then with an initial appearance. Mr. Cohen i am district judge william pauley. The purpose of this proceeding is to inform you of certain rights you have. To inform of, to decide under what conditions you should be released. First, you have the right to
glass of glenlivet 12 on the rocks. The judge, all right. Is it your custom to do that . No, your honor. The judge, all right. Have you had anything since that time . No, ushs. Is your mind clear today . Yes. Are you feeling all right . Yes, sir. Are you represented by counsel . I will. Who are your attorneys . Guy pet littlo and amy. Do you have any doubt to your clients competence to plead at this time . I do not, yurns. Your attorney has informed me that you wish to enter a plea of guilty. Do you wish to enter a plea of guilty . Defendant, yes, sir. The judge, have you had a full opportunity on discuss your case with your attorney and to discuss the consequences of a plea of guilty . Yes, your honor. Judge, are you satisfied with your attorneys, mr. Petrillo in this matter . Very much, sir. On the basis of mr. Cohens
responses to my questions and the observation of his demeanor this afternoon, i find that he is fully dpoenlt enter an informed plea at this time. Warned that he will be prosecuted for perjury if he gives any false statements at this hearing today. They then go through it. There is a long back and forth at this point about cohen understanding the nature his plea deal and the charges against him and the clear mind with which he is pleading guilty. He pleads guilty to eight Felony Charges today. Felony. At a evasion in five separate charges. Making a false statement to a Financial Institution to get a loan that he shouldnt have otherwise gotten and then last two charges blew the proverbial lid off the place today. As theyre going through all the charges, between judge and the attorneys and Michael Cohen, just saying yes, your honor, a lot as theyre going through stuff. There comes this moment the todays hearing when the judge
asked Michael Cohen to explain in his own words the crimes he has committed and to which he is pleading guilty. The judge. Mr. Cohen, would you please tell me what you did in question, each of the crimes to which you are entering a plea of guilty . Michael cohen, yes, your honor. May i stand . The judge. You may. The defendant, thank you, sir. Michael cohen. I also just jotted down some notes so i can keep my dpoeks is address this court in proper fashion. As to counts one through five, i evaded paying substantial taxes on certain income i received that i knew was not reflected on the return and that i caused to be filed. I wont read all the details. But he says how he evaded charges. He lied by omission to a bank where he applied for a loan. We learned he used it to pay off Stormy Daniels. Well have more only later. With you then we get to the part
that led to front pages like this. This is the front page of the new york times. Cohen pleads guilty implicating president. Thats the front page of the new york times. Heres where that comes from in court today. Ready . Okay. Michael cohen. Thank you, your honor. As to count number seven, on or about the summer of 2016 in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, i and the ceo of a Media Company, at the request of the candidate, worked together to keep an individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and to the campaign from publicly disclosing this information. After a number of discussions, we eventually accomplished the goal by the Media Company entering into a contract with the individual under which she received compensation of 150,000. I participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principle purpose of influencing the election. The federal candidate in this
case is the president of the United States. The election is the mexielectio that made him president of the United States. And this is the president s attorney, saying under oath, that the president directed this illegal payoff during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the election. This count, number seven, is the Karen Mcdougal case. The woman who used to model for Playboy Magazine who said she had a long Running Affair with the president. Michael cohen said in court today that the president directed him, Michael Cohen, and the ceo of a Media Company, which appears to be david pecker, the ceo of america media, the owner of national enquirer, Michael Cohen said the president directed two of them to arrange a payment of 150,000 to Karen Mcdougal during the election. Specifically for the purpose of influencing the election. Now, that is something that has been reported in detail. That you have heard about over
months. That is now being charged as a felony. As an illegal corporate contribution to the president s campaign. One that, according to this Court Proceeding today, was directed by the president himself. Now, Michael Cohen is needing guilty to his own role in that but he is directly implicating both the president of the United States and the executive david pecker in that same criminal act. So well have more on that in a second. Heres the next part. Your honor, as to count number eight, on or about october of 2016, the month before the election, in coordination with and at the direction of the same candidate, i arranged to make a payment to a second individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and the campaign to keep the individual from disclosing the information. To accomplish this i used a company that was under my control to make a pay. 130,000. The moneys i advanced were later repaid to me by the candidate. I participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principal purpose of influencing the election. The reason he is saying, i did this in manhattan is because he is being charged by federal prosecutors. Thats establishing their jurisdiction to charge with these felonies. When he says he participated in this conduct for the principal purpose of this election, that is identifying it as a campaignrelated felony. A Campaign Finance felony. So the president s lawyer has pled guilty. In so doing, he implicates the president Personfully Arranging Two Illegal Payoffs during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the outcome of the campaign. Mr. Cohen, Michael Cohen, will be going to jail for this
conduct. But he has implicated the president in this criminal act as well. And then after did he that, federal prosecutors told the judge they have lots of evidence to prove this crime. The judge asked the prosecutors to summarize its evidence on these charges that cohen has just described. The prosecution goes through all the evidence. When it comes to the last two bomb shells, the Felony Charges on which Michael Cohen implicates the president personally, he stands up and gives Bullet Points that are a list of evidence that the government has dloektd prove the charges. Quote. From Search Warrants on mr. Cohens premises including hard company documents, Seized Devitd and audio recordings. Messages sent and emails. Via subpoena including records from the corpse referenced, and
also referenced in the information. Finally, we on Offer Testimony of witnesses including witnesses involved in the transactions in question, who communicated with the defendant. Now, thats the list of evidence that government says it has compiled to prove that case. They explain that theyve got all that evidence to the judge today in court. But the government is not going to put that evidence on display in a trial against Michael Cohen. Because theres not going to be a trial because cohen has pled guilty. So cohens plea and the Court Filings from prosecutors in this case, they implicate cohen. They also implicate the president in this same behavior. Cohens guilty plea spelled it out, out loud in the transcript that i just read to you. It is also spelled out in even more detail in the criminal information document which the prosecutor was just referencing there. The criminal information
document became public later this evening. It spells it out in even more detail. It describes one or more messages of the Trump Campaign coordinating with Michael Cohen to make these illegal payoffs. And this is interesting to me. Hasnt received a lot of attention today but i think it is worth focusing on. The president s company, his business, the trump organization, also appears to be implicated in the description of this crime. Because it is the president s company that is apparently the entity that reimbursed Michael Cohen for the illegal payoff. It was 130,000 illegal payoff to Stormy Daniels. They not only reimbursed him for the payoff. They also paid off a lot more on top of the reimbursement. It is spelled out that Michael Cohen put out this 130,000 as the payoff but then trump organization, the president s business, paid him back. Not 130,000. They paid him back over 420,000. For having provided that
service. And that service, of course, was a felony for which mr. Cohen will now go to prison. They paid him a lot of money to do that. I dont know if you can indict a president but im pretty sure you can indict president s company. So a big day. The indicted congressman today, congressman Duncan Hunter is very lucky to have had his criminal news land like a rain drop in this ocean of criminal news today about the president s Campaign Chair and his long time personal lawyer. As of today, both convicted felons. The last day like this, march 1st, 1974, saw mr. Nixon named as an unindicted criminal conspirator. Today there was no grand jury to do that kind of naming. But in the Court Filings, the president is implicated just as overtly as nixon ever was. So now i have questions. Ive laid out my questions on manafort. Basically, how much time is manafort looking at . Will that change his mind on flipping and cooperating . Pretty simple. Watch this space for that. Including watch tonight for the publication of that list of evidence from the prosecution. Manafort. But on cohen, tell me this. Cohen and federal prosecutors in the Federal District of new york, they implicate the president explicitly today in Campaign Violations with the secret payoffs. Thats not the same thing as indicting the president for those charges. But whats the distance between implication by prosecutors, this explicit implication today, and indictment . Like how do you travel that distance . And can you travel that distance . What happens now that the president is named as someone involved in the commission of multiple felonies . Where does that go . Second question, Michael Cohen is not required to cooperate with prosecutors as a condition of his Plea Agreement. Why not . Did Michael Cohen not want that . What does that mean . And third, where is the Special Counsel . Robert mueller and his prosecutors at the Special Counsels office reportedly initiated this investigation of Michael Cohen but then handed it off to the regular public corruption investigators in the Southern District in new york. The Special Counsel and his team of prosecutors appear nowhere in the hearing or in any of the hearings about Michael Cohen. Does the Special Counsels office want to talk on Michael Cohen . Have they talked on Michael Cohen . Does Michael Cohen have now or did he ever have an option to reduce his prison time but talking to the Special Counsels office about what he knows that might be help envelop their other ongoing investigations . I mean, cohen implicated the
president and two felonies today. If cohen has more to say beyond implicating the president , should we expect that he will have more to say . I think we may be able to get an answer on that from a guest you will be surprised to see here. Next. Insurance that wont replace the full value of your new car . Youd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. Im gonna regret that. With Liberty Mutual new Car Replacement well replace the full value of your car. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty but climbing 58,070 steps a year can be hard on her feet, knees, and lower back. Thats why she wears dr. Scholls orthotics. Theyre clinically proven to relieve pain and give you the comfort to move more. Dr. Scholls, born to move. Applebees to go. Order online and get 5 off 25. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Show. I watch you all the time and i appreciate the invitation. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. I know you have a lot of other things to be doing tonight. Your client pled guilty to eight counts today. It was a standard Plea Agreement as far as we can tell. Not a Cooperation Agreement. Was that an option for you and your client . Why wasnt there any cooperation deal . Well, there are certain things i can answer directly. So let me try answer this indirectly. When i decided to represent mr. Cohen, it was because he committed to me early on in many conversations that he wanted to tell the truth about donald trump. And we talked about what he knew about donald trump. This was one of the subjects. So whether i used the word cooperation or not, my colleague will know the answer to your question. It is truth that Michael Cohen is committed to and it is truth that so threatens the president
of the United States who has consistently lied in fact on this issue, denied knowing about these payments until rudolph giuliani, his lawyer, waiving attorneyclient privilege, said he knew about the payments, directly contrary to the lie on air force one. To answer your question, mr. Cohen is dedicated to telling the truth. If that amounts to the word cooperation, ill leave that to my cohort, the great Criminal Defense Lawyer to explain. The Special Counsels office, Special Counsels Robert Mueller and any of the prosecutors dont appear anywhere in the Court Filings today. They werent discussed in court. That makes them a looming presence in this story and what we know about the future of your client. The future of Michael Cohen. Is there anything to do with the Special Counsel that was involved in this Plea Agreement
today . Has the Special Counsel approached Michael Cohen already about whether he would like to speak some of that truth to their inquiry in addition to what hes just faced in sdny . So, i cant tell you the answer to that about contacts between michael and the Special Counsel. But i can tell you that mr. Cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the Special Counsel and is more than happy to tell Special Counsel all that he knows. Not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the american democracy system in the 2016 election chflt the Trump Tower Meeting was all about. But also, knowledge about the Computer Crime of hacking and whether or not mr. Trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. We know that he publicly cheered
it on. Did he also have private information . One thing to say about Michael Cohen, if i might, is that hes been through a very tough day. His wife and his two children and his family are, i would say, suffering from this type of event. So is michael. But in one very important respect, michael is relieved. He is a good man with a good heart that i discovered. But he is relieved and liberated, is the word i would say to your audience. Because now he has no Shadow Hanging over him. The uncertainty is gone. He has stepped up to the line and admitted what did he wrong but he is now liberated to tell truth. Everything about donald trump that he knows. That led him to approach someone like me, who he knows politically doesnt share anything with President Trump. And from this point on, youre going to see liberated michael
cohen speaking truth to power. I want to underscore what you referenced, that mr. Cohen has information about the president and his advance knowledge of the crime of hacking during the campaign. And youre saying that mr. Cohen, whether or not he has spoken to the Special Counsels office, he would be happy to discuss that with the Special Counsel, separate and apart from everything that happen today in the Southern District of new york. I hate to be overly legalistic with you, but im not going to confirm what Knowledge Michael has. I will confirm that mr. Mueller, who i greatly respect, will have a lot of interest in what michael has to say. And by the way, on just the crime of directing somebody to commit a crime, as you pointed out in your opening. It was a crime for President Trump to direct Michael Cohen to the crime of a Campaign Finance
donation that exceeded the legal limitations. There is Something Else interesting that isnt so obvious. Why didnt President Trump do this himself . Why didnt he write or sign the check himself . Was he covering up because he knew that there was something wrong in what he was doing so he directed his lawyer to do something that he didnt want anybody to know that he did . I think the answer is obvious. There is a coverup here by our now president of the United States that is undeniable. He directed Michael Cohen to make this payment of 130,000. He didnt have the courage, or at least, didnt want to expose himself politically so soon before the election. So he directed his lawyer to do that which he was not willing to do. Thank you for being here. I hope youll come back. Much appreciated. To that last point that he was
making about President Trump directing Michael Cohen to make the payments instead of making them himself, one of the thing we learned is that when trump directed cohen to do it, it could not have been out of convenience. One of the other felonies to which Michael Cohen pled today was lying the a bank in order to get a 130,000 Home Equity Loan which is what he tapped to make the payment to Stormy Daniels which President Trump directed him to make. So it is not like Michael Cohen was the easy choice. Towed commit another felony to scratch the cash together to make that payment in the president s direction. He did get paid back handsomely for it but now he will go to jail for it. The question what will happen to the president for it . More to get to. I didnt believe it. Again. Ooh, baby, do you know what thats worth . I want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ooh im not hearing the confidence. Okay, hold the name your price tool. Power of options based on your budget and well make heaven a place on earth yeah oh, my angels ooh, heaven is a place on earth [ sobs quietly ] ooh, heaven is a place on earth uby making it easy to Verifye You Hyour Car and driver. Ome, uber is moving in a new direction. Forward. avo subaru outback. 98 are still on the road after 10 years. Come on mom, lets go avo right now, get 0 Apr Financing on the 2018 subaru outback. With pg e in the sierras. And im an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 Million Trees have died in california. Pg e prunes and removes over a Million Trees every year to ensure that Hazardous Trees cant impact power lines. And since the onset of the drought weve doubled our efforts. I grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly its heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. What guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. Office. That the fbi agents treated him very fairly then and he felt they treated him very fairly again in this deliberation and these talks. I feel like with we step back from the time line that weve all been living in. Youve had so much interesting reporting over the weeks and months about cohen. Some others have had, reporting along the same lines about cohen. About his feelings about the president. About his likelihood that he would cooperate with prosecutors. That he would be willing to essentially flip after his longstanding relationship with donald trump. After reading all of that, youre now confirming today what seemed quite apparently in court. Youve confirmed it tonight. That cohen and prosecutors didnt talk until this last week. So there havent been ongoing talks. There have been communications between his attorney and the government just basic communications, especially his attorney receiving out and
saying, hey. Were here. As youre going through documents, do you have any questions . But deliberations and specific discussions, from my reporting, i know they didnt really begin until last week. For weeks people have been saying, cohen is really quiet. He was out of the news cycle. Why put himself back in . Last week, thats when these conversations really began in earnest. And he pleads guilty today and there is no Cooperation Agreement that goes along with the plea. If youre only talking for the first time last week, and over the weekend, the beginning of this week, we know from all the very smart lawyers on this network all the time, that a cooperating agreement takes a lot of time. It takes a long, weeks if not months to get the witness to a place where they trust the witness, to work out all the details that you want to work out. If youre only starting this last week isnt that fascinating . Prosecutors didnt want to start it earlier. They didnt want to develop him
into a cooperating witness. As he ran into the transcript from the beginning of the show, the government went through each charge. If they were intent on bringing those charges, they had what they needed. They took more than 3 million documents from anymore april. It seems like they had testimony from people. People were witnesses, if not already testified. Cohen implicated the president to two felonies. To which he has pled guilty, to which serious jail time is attached Lechbly Davis just suggested on our air live that mr. Cohen in addition to those remarkable statements today many court would be happy to speak with the Special Counsel on matters potentially including the president having advance knowledge of the crime that took place during the campaign, which was the hacking of documents from the democratic party. That Michael Cohen may have knowledge that the president had advance warning of that happening and he would be happy to talk on Special Counsel about it. Im still processing this. What can you add . He had a Front Row Seat the a lot that was happening in trump tower during the campaign and in the last decade. So that was the first time that i had heard that. The stuff about the Trump Tower Meeting, about him knowing about the president having advance knowledge of the payments that he made. When i was on your show. I said to you the exact two things had come up in his initial interview with george stephanopoulos. And i said those arent bread crumbs. Those are loaves of bread. Those are things that i know to be true that Michael Cohen had known. I had no advance knowledge of the hacking situation. Would it surprise me a person like Michael Cohen who was in trump tower day in and day out
and had almost daily access to the president during that time would know that information . No. And it is your expectation, if he knows that information, he will happily provide information. From everything that i know, everything that i know from where Michael Cohen is, state of mind, how he feels with the president and what he wants to do going forward. If there is information that he knows that he believes will be helpful, there will be no hesitation in sharing it. Emily jane fox, Senior Reporter for vanity fair. Mr. Cohen is out on 500,000 bail until his sentencing in early december. I imagine, you keep talking to him, you will continue to have amazing reporting on this style. Congratulations being first on so much of this. Thanks. Well be right back. Stay with us. Im all about my bed. This mattress is dangerously comfortable. When i get in, i literally say ahh. Introducing the Leesa Mattress. A better place to sleep. This bed hugs my body. Im now a morning person. The Leesa Mattress is designed to provide strong support, relieve pressure and optimize air flow to keep you cool. Hello bed of my dreams. Order online well build it, box it and ship it to your door for you to enjoy. Sleep on it for up to one hundred nights and love it or youll get a full refund. Returns are free and easy. I love my leesa. Today is gonna be great. Read our reviews then try
the Leesa Mattress in your own home. Order now and get 150 off, and free shipping, too. Go to buyleesa. Com today. You need this bed. This is an insurance commercial. But lets be honest, nobody likes dealing with insurance. Which is why esurance hired me, dennis quaid, as their spokesperson because apparently, im highly likable. See, they know its confusing. I literally have no idea what im getting, dennis quaid. Thats why theyre making it simple, man in cafe. And more affordable. Thank you, dennis quaid. Youre welcome. Thats a prop apple. Id tell you more, but i only have 30 seconds. So heres a dramatic shot of their tagline so youll remember it. Esurance. Its surprisingly painless. When Michael Cohen In Open Court today said that he broke Campaign Finance law in coordination with and at direction of a candidate for federal office, there is no Great Mystery of who that candidate was. Just in case, in the criminal information document filed by prosecutors that we got access to tonight, there was this description which leaves no doubt. Quote, in or about january 2017, Michael Cohen began holding himself out as the personal attorney to individual one who at that point had become the president of the United States. So individual one, we can narrow it down. Joining us now, paul fishman
from the great state of new jersey. Thanks for being here. Michael cohen and federal prosecutors from the Southern District of new york implicated the has himself pled guilty and for which he expects to do jailtime. Whats the difference between implicating somebody in a crime and charging them with a crime, otherwise holding them accountable for a crime . Look, before somebody gets charged you have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to make that charge if youre a federal prosecutor. Thats the standard for convicting. And federal prosecutors, if theyre doing their jobs right, dont actually bring charges until they have enough evidence to convict. Michael cohen obviously was in that circumstance. If you read what happened in court today, if you read what the prosecutors said they were prepared to prove, if you look at the detail of the criminal information which is basically a document instead of indictment when somebody is pleading. They had an enormous amount of evidence, they had an enormous a detail on each of the crimes with which he was charged and to
which he pled guilty. They may not have quite that much yet about the president of the United States. Thats one reason. The second is they may be subscribing to the same view, that they cant indict the president of the United States, or maybe the Southern District of new york shouldnt be the office to make that decision. And so the fact that the president hasnt been charged doesnt mean that theres not enough evidence. It just means that maybe were not there yet. What i think is clear, though, is because what Michael Cohen al kutted to, what he admit theed its not just his own crimes, he effectively admitted to a conspiracy. That makes the president of the United States ab unindicted coconspirator. Unindited coconspirator is a famous phrase because we think of the floating head of Richard Nixon appears in our minds when we think of that. What are the material impliks of that . There arent any really. The reason that the designation is usually useed is for evidentiary reasons. It has to do with what statements by other people you can get into evidence under certain circumstances. Gu the statements of unindicted coconspirators can come in at trial against a defendant sometimes. It helps you get around hearsay. It helps you get around the hearsay rules. Exactly. We may have talked about this
once before. Thats why hes not named that way. It actually is Justice Department policy not to give the names of people in charging documents like that who have not yet been charged, which is why the president isnt named himself technically, hes described right. I think whats also really interesting is that in the charges it says that cohen was working with one or more members of the campaign, which may not necessarily be just the president of the United States. Maybe other people as well. So we may see other things coming out of this afterwards. We just dont know yet. Am i also right that if the president is a de facto unindicted coconspirator in these two felonies that that might have implications legally if the president tried to pardon one of his alleged coconspirators . It certainly makes it look a lot worse. Tough an interest in a particular case, if you have an interest in not having someone cooperate against you, if someone has evidence that would implicate you, that makes the reasons for your pardon so much more suspicious. Thats why i think people are pretty exercised about the idea
he would do that here. Whats also really interesting i think about what happened today is when Michael Cohen was asked what he did he talked about the tax evasion. He talked about making the false statement to the bank in order to get the loan. But he then he talked about the two Campaign Violations. The information, the charging document, doesnt say anything about the fact that he was directed to do this by the president. He said that on his own. He said it in what obviously sound node i wasnt there, but reading the transcript. Like a prepared statement. Its very hard for me to believe that he made that prepared statement without his lawyers having shown it to the prosecutors so they werent surprised by it. So my guess is he knew that was come to go. A remarkable set of charges not only for mr. Cohen but because of what it means for the president. What it literally means for the president i guess we have to find out. And i dont think the fact the Special Counsel wasnt around today doesnt mean hes not going to talk to them. Theres still plenty of time for that. If it turns out later that he
does cooperate with the Special Counsel, the Special Counsel can in fact let the Sentencing Court know about the extent of that cooperation and that could help Michael Cohen come sentencing time. On our air tonight a few minutes ago his lawyer offered to the Special Counsel hed like to talk thoim about some potentially valuable stuff. Exactly. Paul fishman, former u. S. Attorney for the great state of new jersey. Much appreciated. More ahead tonight. Stay with us. A hotel can make or break a trip. And at expedia, we dont think you should be rushed into booking one. Thats why we created expedias addon advantage. Now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts
on select hotels right until the day you leave. Addon advantage. Discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. Only when you book with expedia. With eight counts of guilty but ten counts in which the jury didnt come to a verdict. Joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of michigan. Thank you very much for being with us tonight. I know you have been like white on rice on this trial from the beginning. Im so happy to talk to you about it tonight. Oh, thanks. Im glad to be here. Mistrial on ten counts. Is there anything that you can tell about which verdict which counts the jury did give a verdict on versus the ones on which they couldnt come To Con Sensus that tells you about how the case against manafort went and was received by that jury. Its hard to know exactly what was going on. We know they convicted on all of the tax counts and so that suggests that you know, that was one where they were all in agreement and didnt have a problem with. They did not convict on most of the f bar accounts. This is the failure to identify foreign bank accounts. Only one of those counts. And then they acquitted on or were hung on a number of the
bank fraud counts. They did convict on two of them. The one that the significant one they did not convict on was the one out of the Federal Savings Bank out of chicago involving steven calc, the one in discussions with Paul Manafort asking to become secretary of the treasury or secretary of the army. One theory there is i wonder if they didnt consider that more of an inside job because steven calk was involved and thats solely in the hands of Paul Manafort. Hard to read whats going on. And again, it could be just one juror who was holding out on those. But nonetheless, Paul Manafort was convicted of eight felonies and i would consider it a significant victory for the Special Counsel. Do you expect on the ten counts on which there was a hung jury that the prosecution will try to bring those charges against manafort again . Will they go back and try again with a different jury . I dont know. But i would suspect not. I think they won significant convictions today with the eight. The sentence is likely to be
significant with just those convictions. And the judge is permitted to impose a sentence that includes whats known as relevant conduct under the sentencing guidelines. So if he finds by a preponderance of the evidence, a much lower standard than the jury had to find, that manafort committed those additional crimes, then he is allowed to consider them in imposing sentence. Sow i dont know that they have much to gain by retrying the case. So if it were me, i would not. They may have other reasons they want to go forward. And briefly, barb, do you think that the Special Counsels office will go back to manaforts team now and talk to them again about whether he might want to flip and become a cooperating witness . Rather than face the second trial in d. C. And hopefully not have to face all those years in prison hes looking at after all those convictions today. I do. In fact, if i were manaforts lawyer i would be advising manafort, this is your moment. I know you wanted to wait as long as possible, but this is it. This is your time. If you ever want to cooperate, now is your opportunity. Maybe you could work out a deal where the d. C. Case gets dismissed, you ask for a reduced
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