Election happens. Our best allies in the intelligence world, alliy ies w which we have super close, trusting, collaborative relationship, our allies, our intelligence allies start reporting to us through multiple streams over a period of months a whole bunch of different instances of People Associated with one of the president ial campaigns having contacts with russians, with russian officials, with people linked to russian president Vladimir Putin. At the same time, you have access to american intelligence intercepts of russian officials talking with each other about their contacts with that president ial campaign. At the same time, the u. S. Intelligence Community Starts to come to the conclusion that beyond our usual spy versus spy stuff with russia, russia does appear to be interfering in our election in a deliberate, organized way and trying to hurt the opposing campaign. So, imagine you are the National Security adviser while all this is happening. You know all of this is happening. You have access to all of this intel. The election ends. The side russia was trying to help, in fact, won the election. How do you, as National Security adviser then responsibly prepare to help that campaign transition itself from a president ial campaign to the next president ial administration . How do you as National Security adviser think responsibly about how youre going to tehelp them take custody of the nations most sensitive intelligence, including intelligence on this matter about how they maybe got to the white house in the first place. I mean, the president decided, the outgoing president , president obama, decided, after the 2016 election, that the u. S. Government had to take action against russia, had to punish russia for the way they interfered in our election, including hacking into state voting databases and all the rest of it. The Obama Administration decided they would kick out several dozen russians working here for the russian government and seize russian diplomatic compounds that the u. S. Government believed were being used by the russian government for intelligence purposes. And as they were contemplating these actions against russia for what they had done with this unprecedented interference into our election, it seems clear now that the Obama Administration thought they knew what to expect from russia when they punished russia in this matter but it also seems clear that they really didnt know what to expect from the Incoming Administration that had just won this election. So totally unprecedented situation. They have to decide whats best for National Security and whats best for the country and how to handle this responsibly. On this issue of the sanctions, the punishment for what russia did in our election, what they decided to do is, they would go ahead with those sanctions, with that shove back against russia, but they would do so without giving a heads up to the trump folks. Without giving the Incoming Trump madministration folks a heads up to the trusanctions, t they would do it. President elect trump and his team learned about that, those actions toward russia, those new sanctions against russia, the same time everyone else did when announced in public. The way russia learned about those sanctions is that their ambassador at the u. S. Got summoned to the u. S. State department and at the state department, they told him, this is what the Obama Administration is doing, in response to your countrys attack on our election. Kislyak was reportedly enraged by that summons to the state department and what they told him. Now, the Obama White House had to have been expecting that. Decades and decades of spy versus spy conflict with russia, both during the cold war and after. We know how this works. We know when we shove them, or we sanction them or do something to punish them, we can expect tit for tat response. They can expect a response from us. Its been that way since before i was born. They took that shove in russia in december. After the election. Theyre expecting, they know that kislyak is mad and they are expecting russia to push right back. Thats not what happened. The 0 bam Many Administration announced those punishing sanctions on december 29th. On december 30th, putin came back and announced there would be no response from russia, no retaliation, were good, were not bothered. Surely, we are disappointed, but were not going to do anything in response. That was totally out of keeping with what has happened between the United States and russia, not just recently, but forever. That is not what the Obama Administration was expecting to happen. So, theyve got to figure out, hey, why did that just go down that way . What happened there . What explains that very unusual, even unprecedented response from putin to what we just did . Well, if youre the National Security adviser to the president of the United States, even to the outgoing president of the United States in this case, you dont have to just wonder, right . You can actually find out what happened there. Because you have access to all of these streams of intelligence. And it turns out, yeah, the fbi had been listening in when ambassador kislyak walked out of the state department, steaming, having just been told that russia is losing their compounds including the super cute when that he really liked in maryland, having to shut down that mansion they love so much in san francisco, three dozen russians and their families are being sent home, out of this country, with no warning, get out immediately. The fbi was listening in when he picked up his phone and made a call after he came out of the state department meeting. What he did after he got that news at the state department on december 29th, he walked out of the state department and boop, boop, boop, called mike flynn, who was on vacation with his wife in the dominican republic. They were on a beach. Fbi was listening to kislyaks conversation. And on that call, in that conversation, mike flynn, the incoming National Security adviser for the soon to be Trump Administration, he told kislyak, basically, oh, yeah, i heard when you did about these sanctions, but dont worry. Dont react. Were going to be in there soon. Well take care of these problems. That was essentially his message to kislyak, or at least so were told. So, if youre the National Security adviser to president obama, how do you deal with this information . Right . This is the transition, which means youre supposed to be transitioning the new guys in. Your counterpart from the Incoming Administration is actively working to undermine the intent and effect of u. S. Government sanctions against russia. Through secret communications with the russian government that hes not coordinating with the u. S. Government and state department and hes not disclosing them to anybody. Flynn and the white house, the new trump white house, in fact, would go on to deny that these conversations ever happened or that these were the topics that flynn and kislyak ever discussed. So, at this point in a normal president ial transition, you, as National Security adviser, are supposed to be briefing the guy who gets your job. The new guy who is coming in for your job. Youre supposed to be making sure there is a seamless transition. You are supposed to be working on getting the new guy totally up to speed. Given what susan rice knew about Michael Flynn during the transition, what is she supposed to do . How is she supposed to make a decision on what to tell mike flynn . Lets say u. S. Intelligence recruited human sources who were working as spies for us inside Russias Embassy in washington. Would you give mike flynn the names of those spies . Theyre working at the embassy. The one with whom he engages in secret conversations about un r undermining the u. S. Government. You give him the name of our spies . What if theres a spy in sergeis office . Going to tell mike flynn . So, this all happened, this is all happening, you know, christmas time, over the new year, into early jan, right . After the election, so, late 2016, early 2017. On january 2nd, so, right after the new year, thats when they reportedly got the transcripts of flynns calls with kislyak. That call happened on the 29th, we know that as of january 2nd, they had the transcripts of that call and knew what flynn was talking about with the russians. They get them january 2nd. On january 3rd, it was reported that there was going to be an intelligence briefing for the incoming president about russia having attacked our election. This got a lot of attention at the time. This was anticipated as a big standoff, a big summit between trump and the Intelligence Community, because at that time, he was routinely dismissing the idea that russia had done anything to affect our election. He was going after the Intelligence Community and attacking them for them saying that russia had done anything to influence our election. He said those claims were not true. Well, in the white house, in the Obama White House, in the leadup to that briefing, theyre figuring out what theyre going say to trump and his team, what theyre going to say to trump himself, his National Security team, his National Security adviser. We have learned that that was a very intense time in the Obama White House, trying to handle this unprecedented situation. Quote, on january 5th, fbi director james comey, cia director john brennan, director of National IntelligenceJames Clapper briefed president obama and a small group of his Top White House advisers on the contents of a classified Intelligence Report showing that russia intervened in the 2016 election to help trump. Quote, thats when white house officials learned that the fbi was investigating the Flynn Kislyak calls. One former u. S. Official said, quote, the Flynn Kislyak relationship was highlighted. The bureau, meaning the fbi, made clear that there was an actual investigation under way. An actual investigation of flynn. That was reported last year in the Washington Post. Now today, we found out what happened right after that briefing. They tell obama and a small group of his Top White House advisers that the incoming National Security adviser is the subject of an fbi investigation, what happened next . What happened immediately thereafter . As of right now, we can tell you. Quote, classification, top secret. And then you see top secret is struck through. Its because this has gone through a formal declassification process at the National Security council. This has been partially declassified. This is an email sent by susan rice, who was president obamas National Security adviser. The subject line is, note to file. Heres what it says. Quote, on january 5th, following a briefing by the Intelligence Community leadership on russian hacking during the 2016 president ial election, president obama had a brief follow conversation with fbi director jim comey and sally yates in the oval office. Vice President Biden and i were also present. Okay, so, its obama, comey, sally yates, biden and susan rice. In the oval office. Theyve just had their briefing from the intelligence chiefs. Quote. President obama began the conversation by stressing his continued commitment to ensuring that every aspect of this issue is handled by the intelligence and Law Enforcement communities by the book. The president stressed that he is not asking about initiating or instructing anything from a Law Enforcement perspective. He reiterated that our Law Enforcement team needs to proceed as it normally would, by the book. From a National Security perspective, however, president obama said he wants to be sure that as we engage with the incoming team, were mindful to asser isation if theres any rain that we cannot share information full litty as it re to russia. The next paragraph is redacted. Then it picks up. The president asked comey to inform him if anything changes in the next few weeks that could effect how we share classified information with the incoming team. Comey said he would. So, this was initially classified as top secret, it has been declassified, formally, by the National Security council. It was released to the public tonight. Republican senators Chuck Grassley and Lindsey Graham have written a letter to susan rice about this now declassified email which they obtained in the senate. In their letter, they quote this email back to her in full, and then they say this. Quote, it strikes us as odd that among your activities in final moments, this the final day of the Obama Administration, you would feel the need to send yourself such an unusual email. They send her a list of a dozen questions they want to ask her about this newly declassified email. So, by releasing this today, these republican senators have given us an extraordinary window into what the Obama Administration was grappling with as they were getting ready to leave the white house, as they were leaving. Knowing that russia had intervened to help trump win the election. Knowing that Senior Members of the Trump Campaign and the Incoming TrumpNational Security team were lying about their contacts with russia. Knowing there was an active fbi investigation of the incoming National Security adviser because of his contacts with russia president obama, in that moment, according to this new email weve never seen before, president obama in that moment went to his National Security team, went to his top Law Enforcement, federal Law Enforcement officers, said, im not going to interfere with anything in terms of Law Enforcement, do that however you need to do that, but from a National Security perspective, can you tell us if theres stuff we shouldnt be briefing these Incoming Trump folks about, because we plan to brief them on everything is there something we should hold back . Would you tell us if there was . I think from their letter to susan rice about this tonight that senator Lindsey Graham and Chuck Grassley think this is a real gotcha. It strikes us as odd, this is such an unusual email yeah. What wouldnt be odd . Youre the National Security adviser and your incoming replacement is mike flynn, who you know is the subject of an fbi investigation, because of his ties to russia. Remember, obama fired mike flynn. When trump came to the white house to meet obama after the election, president obama reportedly warned president elect trump about two things. One, north korea. Two, mike flynn. And trump decided to keep mike flynn anyway. If youre in charge of the transition, the part of the transition, the National Security adviser part of the transition, from yourself to mike flynn, do you hand him all the intel youve got . Do you read him in on everything . Weve got a spy working in putins office, would you tell mike flynn the name of that person . Might you memorialize in a note to file some of the decisionmaking processes around this unusual time in American History . In december, right after the election, president obama, youll remember, he ordered the Intelligence Community to conduct a full assessment of what the russians did. It turned up tons of Intelligence Reports about contacts between Trump Associates and russian officials. The New York Times last year previously reported on a scramble inside the Obama Administration in its closing days to preserve the intelligence that had been collected about the Trump Campaign and russia so it couldnt be covered up or destroyed by the Incoming Administration. The Washington Post losted last year, quote, senior Obama Administration officials said they felt so uncertain about the nature of the Flynn Kislyak relationship that they took it upon themselves to scale back what they told flynn and others on his incoming National Security team. We did decide not to share with them certain things about russia. As late as january 19th, obamas last full day in office, Washington Post reports there was a debate among the Law Enforcement and intelligence chiefs about how much the Incoming Trump administration could be told about the ongoing investigations of the russia attack, including the investigations that touched on them. Investigations that included at least one Senior Member of trumps team, mike flynn. They were debating that as of january 19th, the day before the inauguration. But now tonight, we know that literally as of the next day, as of inauguration day, as trump was being sworn in, 12 minutes into his american carnage inaugural address, susan rice hit send on this email to herself and to her assistant on the National Security council, subject line, note to file. Top secret. Record. Memorializing for the record, memorializing for the future, for us, now, that we would know about president Obama Meeting with the top Law Enforcement and intelligence officials in his administration, in the closing weeks they were there, to try to deal responsibly with this totally unprecedented, remarkable situation. As president obama tried to separate the Law Enforcement function here from the National Security counterintelligence function here. Law enforcement, you proceed by the book. The president stressed, hes not instructing anything from a lawn enforcement perspective. Our Law Enforcement team needs to proceed by the book. From an intelligence and National Security perspective, though, he wanted an organized, wellinformed approach. As to what these guys could be told, as to how much, if anything, should be held back from these Incoming Trump folks, including the ones who were under investigation. Absolutely fascinating. If you havent seen this thing, we posted it at maddowblog. Com tonight. You can see it there. It is amazing that this is coming to light while the white house, tonight, cannot disentangle itself from the questions around the white house staff secretary, rob porter, the white house official incharge of every piece of paper including classified information that crosses the president s desk. Rob porter was either fired or resigned last week, depending who is asking and when. There are increasingly serious questions if the white house gamed the security clearance process from the start to allow this guy access to classified information, even after the fbi let the white house know that there were serious flags in his background check and they told the white house that he would never be given a permanent security clearance, because of serious Domestic Violence allegations against him from his exwives. That controversy continues even tonight, with a disastrous White House Press briefing today, with continued questions now about whether this president is about to lose his second white house chief of staff in the form of john kelly. With multiple white house officials now telling reporters that john kelly has asked them to lie publicly about this incident. John kelly and rob porter scandal is getting more difficult for the white house by the day. But we can now say with confidence that absolutely unprecedented controversies about access to classified information are turning out to be the alpha and the omega scandals, the day one to day 365 scandals of just their first year in office. Take off for mexico with expedia. One click gives you access to discounts on thousands of hotels, cars and things to do. Like the occidental at the xcaret destination for 32 off. Everything you need to go. Expedia. We know that when youre spending time with the grandkids every minute counts. 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Im walkin wow nshine im walking on sunshine wow im walking on sunshine wow and dont it feel good hey alright now and dont it feel good applebees handcrafted burgers. Any burger just 7. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Tuesday night, when the initial story came out, white house praises rob porter, wednesday morning, photos come out, white house stands by itself statement, wednesday afternoon, the white house continues to praise rob porter. Chief of staff john kelly said he acted within 40 minute office knowing the allegations. Can you explain that . As i said, im going to repeat what i said earlier, that we learned of the situation last tuesday evening and within 24 hours, his resignation had been accepted and announced. We announced a transition was going to happen and within hours it did and i dont understand that. Can you explain that . I can tell you that a conversation took place within 40 minutes and beyond that, i really dont have anything else to add. More than a year into this presidency, the white house is struggling to answer not just when they took action over allegations against a Top White House staffer, but why. Because for a year after hearing that he would have trouble getting a security clearance because of Domestic Violence allegations against him, they left that staffer in place, handling the countrys most classified information. He managed the flow of information across the president s desk. This scandal continues to unfold tonight as a newly declassified Obama Administration document shows how the outgoing Obama Administration struggled up to the last minute with the question how to handle classified information with the new Incoming Administration, while they were the subject of both a criminal and counterintelligence investigation at the fbi. Tonights ongoing controversy about white house chief of staff john kelly and rob porter shows basically that this is a part of the National Responsibility of running the federal government, that they cant quite get their hands around at the Trump Administration and well into year two now, it doesnt seem like its getting any better. Joining us is chris lou, he ran the obama transition in 2008 and later became white house cabinet secretary. Hes now a senior fellow at the university of virginias miller center. Thanks for being with us. Nice to see you. Thank you. So one of the things that i have struggled with, not necessarily because i have a cable news show, but as an american, over the past year, ive tried to keep my eyes on what counts as normal. I dont want to recalibrate myself as to whats normal for now. I want to stay focused on what counts as normal for our country. Whats the normal security clearance process for somebody in a job Like White House staff secretary . Somebody in a senior job, how is that handled during the transition . Yeah, let me tell you how we did it. We started planning our transition six months before election day. And right before election day, we submitted about 200 names to be cleared by the fbi. These are 200 people we thought would be in the Obama Administration. So, on day one, right after inauguration day, we had people ready to go and to handle classified materials. Now, there is, obviously, a backlog and there are delays in getting people cleared, but remember this. Rob porter had one of the most important jobs in the white house, and theres a way that you frontload those security clearances. So, you know, really within a couple of months of the Obama Administration, all of our senior people had our clearances. So, whats happening here is not normal. Not only the delay getting him cleared, but what you seem to have right now is, you have people like john kelly, dawn mcgam mcgahn, perhaps joe hagan, the deputy chief of staff, who may have gamed the system to keep rob porter in place. When you say gamed the system, who enforces the system . Well, the system is ultimately informed by at least in the Obama White House, the deputy chief of staff, that would be joe hagan, in conjunction with don mcgahn, and we know from press accounts that as early as june, both of these gentlemen had a sense from the fbi investigation that there were these allegations, which were then substantiated in november. At that point kelly was on board. They almost certainly told kelly about that and i think the real question is whether its june or november, whether they kept that secret from the president. I find that not credible at this point, but even if they did, they still sat on this information for now two to three months without taking action. Once there was that determination from the fbi, again, what were told is the fbi flagged these concerns in the background check to the white house early on and then they substantiated them and informed the white house this meant he was unlikely to get cleared for a permanent security clearance. Obviously, as you point out, they kept him on in that role for months thereafter. The only thing that seems to have spurred them to take any action in this case, is when there are press reports in this matter. Is there any legal concern to him having access for highly classified information for which he was not cleared with just his interim clearance during that interim before he was finally pushed out . Well, look, i think those are questions that need to be answered, and certainly, if this were a normal time with a congress performing oversight, we would take a look at whether classified information was mishandled. Recall the republican outrage about the supposed mishandling of classified information about secretary clinton. But leaving that aside, his interim security clearance should have lapsed at a certain period of time. The fact he kept it meant that somebody proactively kept him in the job and there need to be real questions asked about who made that determination. Chris lou, who headed up the 2008 obama transition, thank you for helping us understand this. Appreciate you being here. Thank you. Lots to come tonight, stay with us. E weekend thing. That back from the dead or robotcowboy thing. Or maybe its watching satisfyinglysatisfying things. Organic avocado on everything thing. Doing it yourself or tagging a friend thing. More checkingin or checking out things. Like faaaaaaaaaar out of this world things. Far out. More revolutions in the making thing. That play like a girl thing. Is it a 4 your eyez only, thing. More of a no role modelz thing. That tripledouble thing. Is he the g. O. A. 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It was in the spring right after President Trump fired fbi director james comey, russias state news agency tweeted out this picture of donald trump and russias foreign minister shaking hands in the oval office. The foreign minister brought along the russian ambassador, as well. Nobody knew about that meeting in advance, at least not in the United States. U. S. Journalists were kept out. The meeting was not on the president s official schedule. When it happened, the press pool was taken totally by surprise, especially when russia state media started uploading their photos. The white house later said, he chose to take that meeting because putin asked him to. So, he said yes. And we had to learn about it from russia. That was the second time. The third time was in november. Again all sourced to the kremlin about how trump was going to meet putin at the asia pacific summit. The white house initially denied those reports, said they wouldnt meet but then they met just like the kremlin said they would. Met a bunch of times, actually all on that summit. That was mid november. By the end of november, happened again. Russian news agency reported that President Trump and putin were set to hold a call. Nothing from the white house, but then, in fact, the call happened. That was the fourth time we learned about the actions of the american president from the kremlin. Fifth time was on december 14th, another Russian News Agency tweeted out a photo announcing that putin had taken yet another call with donald trump. Thanks for the heads up, kremlin. We wouldnt have known about it otherwise. The sixth time was literally three days later, december 17th. Russian staterun News Agency First to report that putin and trump had another heart to heart, because a call a week is not nearly enough. We learned about all of those calls and meetings from russia. Kremlin notification of what the u. S. President has done when the u. S. Media has not been told. Seventh time came at the end of last month, end of january. Reuters citing the russian staterun news agency that russias foreign spy chief, who, i should note, is under u. S. Sanctions and therefore cannot legally travel to the United States, in fact, he came to the United States the week before to meet with Trump Administration officials. We later learned that he did not come alone, but we first got the news from russian state media. And today, it happened again. For an eighth straight time. Russian news agency puts out Vladimir Putin spoke to trump today on the phone. Oh, really . Glad you guys can let us in on that. The russian report was followed up by a statement from the kremlin, along with a tweet from the kremlin and a facebook post. They blasted it all over social media for maximum effect. All before the u. S. Was notified this was happening, let alone before we got a readout from our own government on this. So, its eight times, by our count, eight times at least, maybe theres more that ive forgotten. Eight times that i can come up with off the top of my head, that there was a meeting or call between this president and the russian government but we here in the United States had to learn about it from russia. This does not happen with any other country. This does not happen with leaders from any other government anywhere on earth. Its never happened before for an american president having to do with any other country, ever. But it happens every single time with this one. For the eighth time today why is that . And if some other country wanted to get in on that sweet, sweet deal, how would you do it . What would you need to do . Burned me up and down, shno way to cool it. Every time you kiss me its like sunshine and whiskey like a bottle of jack straight to the head. One shot, two shot, copper tone red. Every time you kiss me its like sunshine and whiskey. Applebees handcrafted burgers. Any burger just 7. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. For a nonstop, sweetn youtreat goodness,tem . Hold on to your tiara kind of day. Get 24 7 digestive support, with align. The 1 doctor recommended probiotic brand. Also in kids chewables. Of course, it started with news that once again was not released by our own government, news about our own government that we had to get from russia. It was the kremlin bragging that all three of russias intelligence chiefs had all come to washington. They did . We have to learn this from you guys . A couple of weeks ago, we learned from the russian government, bragging about it, that the head of the fsb, which used to be the kgb, they came to the u. S. And they reportedly met with the director of National Intelligence and the head of the cia. We also learned that the head of russias military intelligence service, the gru, which is now famous in our country for having been the lead russian Government Agency responsible for attacking our election in 2016, the head of the gru also came to washington. Quote, current and former u. S. Intelligence officials could not recall so many heads of russias Security Apparatus coming to washington at once. What were they doing here . Well, we know that the svr guy and the fsb guy, roughly, the equivalent of our cia and fbi, we know while they were here, they met with the director of National Intelligence, dan coats, and the head of the cia, mike pompeo. So, two of the three russian spy chiefs that came over, we know both of them took meetings with these two guys. But remember, there were three of them. The gru guy, the military intelligence guy, still a total mystery as to what he was doing in washington. We have no idea who he met with or even where he traveled once he was in the United States. Remember, it was his agency that led the attack on our election. No u. S. Official admitted to meeting with him while he was here. Who met with him . Who brought him over . What was he doing here . How long did he stay . Did he enjoy himself . I should tell you, the srv guy, it is also a legal mystery as to how he got in at all. Hes sanctioned by the u. S. Government, he is banned from entering the United States under u. S. Law. Who let him in . Democratic senators first pulled the alarm about this a week and a half ago. Democratic Senate LeaderChuck Schumer wrote to dan coats asking for an explanation, this was almost two weeks ago now. We have been checking in every day to see if theres going to be any response to his questions, but still, theres been nothing. That said, put this in your calendar for tomorrow morning. Tomorrow, senators will get to ask dan coates, the director of National Intelligence, and cia director mike pompeo in person about this and other matters. There is going to be an open hearing tomorrow with pompeo, fbi director chris wray and dan coates. The worldwide threats hearing before the Senate IntelligenceCommittee Going to happen tomorrow in open session. Can i ask a question from the peanut gallery, please . Why did you guys all meet with the russian spy chiefs and why did we have to learn about it from russia . In the meantime, in the interest of reestablishing our sense of what is normal, i asked someone to be here tonight to shed light on how unprecedented this is. Mike mcfall, mr. Ambassador, thank you for being with us tonight. Mike, nice to see you. Thanks for having me. Hope your question gets asked tomorrow. Yeah, because i just said it on tv, im sure it wont. Yeah. But i have read, based on unnamed former officials, that its really weird for all three russian intelligence chiefs to be in washington, to be in the United States all at once, let alone for it to happen under this cloud of secrecy. Does it also seem to you that this is strange . Yes. Now, intelligence chiefs meet and travel from moscow to washington all the time. When i was in moscow, i had visitors like general flynn and bob mueller come in their previous jobs to meet with their counterparts. So, thats normal. What is highly abnormal is for all three of them to come to washington, especially as you rightly pointed out, when one of them is on the sanctions list. So, somebody went to a lot of trouble to organize that meeting, we dont know the agenda, we dont know the substance, and, like you, i hope somebody will ask some hard questions tomorrow about what that was. On the specifics, there is this interesting reporting, there is three chiefs that came over, two of them were told had meetings with coates and pompeo, but the head of the gru, one of the agencies that led this attack against our election, he was reportedly also here. And right now, i find it eerie that weve got bragging from the kremlin, bragging from russias government that he was here, but theres no indication from our own government that he met with any u. S. Officials, nobody admits to taking any meetings with him. We have no description or even where he traveled while he was here. Obviously, the svr guy, thats an issue and a concern because of the sanctions against him. With the gru visit, that seems even more mysterious. I couldnt agree more. Its very mysterious that we dont know at all what his agenda was. And just to underscore what you said earlier, the gru was part of the russian government that violated our sovereignty in 2016, right . These are the guys that stole the data from the dnc and had a massive effect on our president ial election. So, for them to come and not have any agenda and any readout of what happened with them is very strange. And to me, deserves an explanation about what is going on with the gru being in the United States of america. Last question for you, mr. Ambassador. I might be the on person in america obsessed with this. I am, too. Okay, all right. Common cause. Yes. I now count eight instances, and i think its all the instances that we know of, where President Trump and president putin had contact and in every instance, we first learned about those contacts from the russian government. I dont know if any other government thats treated this way, any other foreign leader that is treated that way, i wonder if you have any understanding as to why that pattern might be now so solid, in terms of the interactions between our president and theirs, and why the kremlin and the russian government seems to have such glee at spreading this information when American Media and American Government isnt allowed to know it. It just makes no sense to me. Before i was in moscow, i worked three years at the white house at the National Security council. My job was to set up phone calls and write readouts. Everybody knows its going to be read out from the kremlin, so, i really dont understand just the basic mechanics of why the white house somehow thinks that they can do these calls and not talk about it. I dont know who is at fault there, but it makes us look silly. We use these readouts, by the way, to advocate for our policies. We want to frame the way rachel m ma maddow might be talking about the call. For instance, President Trump expressed concern for what russia is doing inside ukraine. You can say that inside a statement. Putin may not say that part. The fact they dont take advantage and play defense is surprising to me and i just dont think it serves our own interest. Also, the matter of the timing, where theyre always telling us first, is that something where theres also a strategy around that, or is that just are we being nice to them by letting them announce it first . I can tell you, when i was at the white house, we wanted to frame the public discussion of these phone calls first. We always wanted to be out front and we reached out to journalists to talk about them. I do not understand what the Tactical Advantage is to waiting until the kremlin speaks first and were in the reactive mode. It just it didnt make sense. Mike mcfaul, former u. S. Ambassador to russia. Thank you for being here. Nice to see you. Yeah. Thanks for having me. See, its kind of nice. Sometimes i feel all alone and you talk to somebody who is like, im obsessed with it, too. Well be right back. But i really love it. Im on the move all day long. And sometimes, i dont eat the way i should. So, i drink boost to get the nutrition im missing. Boost high protein nutritional drink has 15 grams of protein to help maintain muscle and 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d. All with a great taste. Boost gives me everything i need. To be up for doing what i love. Boost high protein be up for it there are two types of people in the world. Those who fear the future. And those who embrace it. The future is for the unafraid. Today, we learned that one of the people who President Trump installed to be a top official for conducting the census is instead leaving the administration. So, yes, thats another, yet another senior Trump Administration official who is leaving the administration, were current ly gely working o getting a bigger wall behind me to see them all on one screen. So far, we dont have the appropriate font. In this case, though, the thing you need to know about the census guy thats leaving is what he was famous before trump named him to run the census was this book. Redistricting and representation. Why competitive elections are bad for america. Why competitive elections are bad for america. He was going to run the census, the census, which is used to redistrict and set up r representation to make sure that we have competitive elections in america. So, hes out. But hes not the most interesting Trump Administration failure of the day. Hes probably not second place. The best one is next. Stay with us. I know when i hand them the keys to their first car its gonna be scary. But i also know that were gonna have usaa insurance for both my boys. Its something that theyre not even gonna have to think of. Its just gonna be in the family. Were the tenneys and were usaa members for life. Lobsterfest is back at red lobster. With the most lobster dishes of the year. New dueling lobster tails has two tails thatll fight to be your favorite. One topped with creamy shrimp and scallops, the other. Steamed with lemon and herbs. And no, youre not dreaming, classics like lobster lovers dream are back too, along with decadent new lobster truffle mac cheese. But enough talking about lobster lets get to eating because lobsterfest wont last. So dive in today at red lobster in july in mississippi, there was a traffic arrest that ended up being a big embarrassment. Guy got pulled over for a seat belt violation, they could see as he drove past that his seat belt i never really get that. Anyway, they pulled him over, no seat belt. Police officers say they detected a strong odor of marijuana. It ended up as a dui and drug possession arrest. The reason this was embarrassing is because the guy that got pulled over wasnt just your alleged pot smoking, no seat belt wearing weary xhu or the. He was a Police Dispatch officer. And that is awkwardly close to home for local Law Enforcement who made this arrest. They decided to call in professional Public Relations people to let the public know what happened. Took them a week and a half to release information about it. By the time they did, they made sure the arrested guy had quit his police job so that could be part of the story. They made a Public Statement about the charges. Released the booking photo to the press. And otherwise professionally handled it. That embarrassing seat belt dui drug possession arrest ends up not just being embarrassing for local Law Enforcement, it ends up being a national embarrassment, because the pr professional they called upon to manage press and Public Relations around that arrest, at that moment, that guy running that little pr effort in mississippi, he was also supposed to be running a 1. 7 billion federal agency that is in charge of rail safety for our whole country. He was appointed last year by the president , the number two job at the federal railroad administration. He is the same heath hall who, during his time in washington, has been fielding press inquiries for madison county, mississippi, Law Enforcement official officials. Federal rail safety, obviously, a big issue right now. There have been four fatal amtrak crashes just since december, including one that was carrying all republican members of congress when it crashed into a dump truck. The white house hasnt been able to get their nominee to run the agency through the senate, so, there hasnt been a confirmed director for the agency for more than a year. That left the deputy running the agency instead. The deputy is this guy, heath hall. He had once worked as an intern at the rail agency, like when he was a kid, but other than that, he had no expertise in rail safety whatsoever. Hes a political consultant and a pr guy. Thats why he had a contract to be the Public Relations guy for a Sheriffs Department in mississippi. So, theres one question as to how on earth he got the number two job in rail safety for the federal government. Especially because it resulted in him having to be the director of that agency all year long when he has no experience in the field whatsoever. Even if it did make sense to hire him for the job, once he was in place at the agency, he was definitely not supposed to keep his second job back home. Senior government officials are not allowed to have second jobs. Politico broke this, and not only was this guy working the second job the whole time hes been responsible for running the nations rail safety, staffers at the Railway Agency say one of the things theyve had to do with their jobs now is field Public Relations calls for him. Because he still keeps that job going on the side, with the help of your federal tax dollars. Most amazing part of this whole story is when politico contacted the government for government on this, the transportation departments response was basically, no, hes been doing what now . What is this . This is the quote from the transportation department. Quote, we were unaware of the information thats being reported, but those allegations, if theyre true, theyre troubling. And heres the next sentence. Quote, heath hall has resigned his position effective immediately. So, happy infrastructure week from the Trump Administration. Where the multibillion Dollar Agency for federal rail safety is being run by a former intern with no experience or expertise in the field whatsoever who was also running a whole good evening, rachel. That sounds optimistic for infrastructure when you refer to it as infrastructure week. Because i have a funny feeling its infrastructure day well never hear it again. At the White House Press briefing, one question about infrastructure. All the rest was about the shall haver who left for Domestic Violence