Michael cohen case which, oh, by the way, includes individual one, donald trump, who is accused in all of those documents of directing the crimes Michael Cohen was committing, and thats the case, that we discovered tonight that william barr has been trying to interfere with as soon as he got the job. And if there is a systemic effort inside Prosecutors Office to let the president s tendrils to extend to prosecutorial decisions for there to be political pressure or on how cases are resolved and brought or not brought, among other things, the judiciary should know about that because in some cases judges may want to correct for that or investigate that or figure that out if prosecutors are being importuned in that way. So i realize that prosecutors are constrained in terms of what they can tell us, the public, but when cases are getting messed with, when there is interference, in the same way its a really serious thing to intimidate a witness or to do other thing to obstruct justice, if the obstruction of justice is happening from the upper echelons of the Justice Department at the direction of the president , we need to know about it. And this New York Times story tonight with these incredibly well sourced anecdotes about whats happening inside sdny, i feel like it is the first crack of us starting to see that. And more prosecutors, more people who know whats been happening inside Prosecutors Offices with this stuff need to squawk, need to let us know, or we cant help fix it. If tonights polls are correct, todays New York Times polls, if they are correct, at noontime on january 20th, donald trump will become available for indictment as individual one in that case because he will no longer be president of the united states. And one of the Big Questions about that case is what happens. What happens if donald Trump Leaves Office at the end of the first term. Does he immediately in effect get indicted in the Southern District of new york for the same charges Michael Cohen has gone to prison for. For which u. S. Attorneys assistant u. S. Attorneys have spoken overtly in court in terms of his criminal liability for those acts. I mean, it does not get more serious than that in terms of whether or not this is a country that is built on the rule of law or not. And what we have seen the attorney general do to the u. S. Attorneys office in d. C. , where he decapitated and took over and used it, as far as we can tell, to squelch cases related to the president and to bring about unusual and extra legal lenience for the president s associates in that office, we are now seeing him make the same attempt on the new york Prosecutors Office, and were learning tonight all this backfilled information about how much pressure they have been facing for months, since barr has been in office. I mean, it is this is John Mitchell stuff. I mean, this is as bad as it gets in terms of the administration of justice. So far Jeffrey Berman did succeed in fighting off this pressure in incredibly heroic style and getting his deputy installed as his successor who he trusts and generally people trust to continue his work. Its just been the story Jeffrey Berman has to tell is the most remarkable story that i just cant wait for. Yeah, exactly. I dont think you have underdescribed this as all. I think youve got it. I could go on and on. Thank you, rachel. Thank you very much. Thank you, lawrence. Thank you. As i said congresswoman katie porter will be joining us tonight. In a house hearing today, she got to question the chairman of the securities and Exchange Commission, jay clayton, who just happens to be the person william barr said would be nominated to replace Jeffrey Berman as the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york when that scheme became public last friday night. Katie porters questioning did not go well for jay clayton today. Youll see that later. And Stacey Abrams is going to join us on a week that saw some record Voter Participation rates thanks to mailin voting, something Stacey Abrams is trying to make available to all voters in november. Jerry reid and trymaine lee are going to join us to discuss the bipartisan vote, really a historic vote in the house of representatives tonight on police reform. It is the only congressional action ever taken because it was provoked by the Police Murder of an unarmed black man. We have had Police Murdered of unarmed black men throughout the history of this country. George floyds murder was the very first one that ever provoked congressional action. The bill that passed the house tonight is called the George Floyd Justice in policing act of 2020. And at the end of this hour, we have a special report about air travel. That youre definitely going to want to hear about. When i think about air travel now, im not traveling because i worry about the risk of infection inside the airplane, but what about the risk of infection at tsa checkpoints . A senior tsa officer with 20 Years Experience is now officially a whistleblower warning of the coronavirus dangers at tsa check points. He will join us at the end of this hour with his whistleblower report. If you are thinking about possibly flying anywhere this summer, you have got to hear what he has to say about whats been happening at tsa check points. Today donald trump took his president ial campaign to wisconsin where he said the second stupidest thing he has ever said about the coronavirus. Donald trump told his wisconsin audience, quote, these are his words, easy to memorize, if we didnt test, we wouldnt have cases. But we have cases because we test. Now, as you ponder that rank stupidity, here is the man himself saying it. If we didnt test, we wouldnt have cases. But we have cases because we test. That would be like saying if we didnt test for cancer, we wouldnt have cancer, but we have cancer because we test. Thats the president of the united states. Thats the way his mind actually works. Thats why he is incapable of processing any of the scientific knowledge being developed by covid19. Thats why he is incapable of processing any of the stein scientific knowledge about covid19. That was of course the stupidest thing that donald trump has ever said about covid19. And thats why he stopped having white house briefings about it, because it became clear when he said that, it became clear even to donald trump that he would inevitably continue to say grotesquely stupid things in white house briefings about the coronavirus and dangerous things. So those briefings had to be stopped. But donald trump cannot stop his president ial campaign, and he cannot stop pretending that coronavirus is not a problem. And so those two things came together today in wisconsin when he said if we didnt test we wouldnt have cases. But we have cases because we test. And because of shockingly imbecilic statements like that, donald trump is running 11 points behind joe biden in wisconsin, the state where he said that today. And the latest New York Times poll released today. Donald trump won wisconsin four years ago and now hes losing wisconsin by 11 points, and thats why he went there today. Donald trumps trip was paid for by taxpayers. The white house labeled it an official government trip because donald trump made his speech at a shipyard that builds navy ships. But as john bolton has told us and we already knew, everything donald trump does and says is about his election. So this is not the last trip that will be paid for by the taxpayers and falsely labeled by the white house as an official government trip. Donald trump decided to say the second stupidest thing hes ever said about coronavirus on a day when the cdc director revealed a stunning new dimension of the pandemics reach in the united states. Cdc director Robert Redfield said our best estimate right now is that for every case thats reported there actually are 10 other infections. Experts have long believed that we were undercounting coronavirus cases in the united states. But we now have an official estimate that there have been ten times more infections than we thought. That estimate is based on the presence of coronavirus antibodies in blood tests nationwide. As of tonight, there are 2,424,025 confirmed cases of coronavirus in this country. And as of tonight, we have suffered 123,161 deaths from coronavirus in this country. Today joe biden went to pennsylvania where, according to the New York Times poll released today, joe biden has a 10 point lead on donald trump. Joe biden gave a speech in which he showed the best way to campaign against donald trump is with Donald Trumps own words. President trump publically claimed that, and i quote, anybody, anybody that wants a test, anybody can get it. It simply was not true, and he knew it. Then five days ago, in his Campaign Rally in tulsa, oklahoma, admitting he admitted telling people, and i quote, we have to slow the testing down. Slow it down, please. He actually said it. In his hour and 50 minute speech, slow the testing down, please. At first his spokes people tried to say he was joking. But then trump himself said he wasnt joking. He called testing, quote, a double edged sword. Testing is a double edged sword. Thats the quote. Lets be Crystal Clear about what he means by that. Testing unequivocally saves lives. And widespread testing is the key to opening our economy again. Thats one edge of the sword. The other edge is he thinks that finding out that more americans are sick will make him look bad. Thats what hes worried about. Hes worried about looking bad. Well, donald trump needs to stop carrying about how he looks and start carrying about what is happening in the rest of america. Joe biden wore a mask before and after his speech in pennsylvania today. Joe biden is on the winning side of the mask issue in america with the latest New York Times polls showing that 54 of people say they always wear a mask when they expect to be in proximity of others. Another 22 say they usually wear a mask. So thats 76 of americans wearing masks, while only 22 support the donald trump position of rarely or never wearing a mask. Thats just one of the ways donald trump is losing in the latest New York Times poll, which gives joe biden a 14 point lead nationally, 15 to 36. Joe biden also leads donald trump in every battleground state polled by the New York Times. I already messages mentioned the 11point lead biden has in wisconsin. The 10 point lead in pennsylvania. But joe biden also has an 11 point lead in michigan at 4736. A 6 point lead in florida at 4741. A sevenpoint lead in arizona at 4841. And a ninepoint lead in North Carolina at 4940. And a fox news poll in battleground states also has very bad news for donald trump. And the fox news poll in florida joe biden has a 9 point lead over donald trump, 4940. In georgia joe biden leads donald trump 4745, which is a tie within the margin of error in a state that should be overwhelmingly republican. And in texas another republican state joe biden is running one point ahead of donald trump, 4544. Leading off our discussion tonight a physician and director of the columbia universitys National Center for diseases, disaster preparedness. John heilemann is with us. Hes a National Analyst for nbc news. He is an executive director of recount. And, doctor, i want to begin with this new estimate that the real infection number is ten times higher than what has been reported. What is your reaction to that . Yes, lawrence. So the actual is 20 million case as opposed to the two plus million. The fact of the matter is that by the end of this year, i think we will see 150 million at least cases because we have been Public Health officials estimating from the very beginning of this that about 50 of the population was actually going to be infected with the coronavirus. Not everybody is going to get very sick. In fact, the vast majority will be relatively symptom free, but there is going to be a whole lot of americans that will come down with this disease between now and the end of the year with a lot more deaths that were currently experiencing at this moment, lawrence. And also, doctor, what about the surges that were seeing around the country. They seem to be mostly in the southwest. Is there a way we can interpret that . Well, first of all, in a pandemic like this, we see exactly what we have been seeing, that at one point new york, you know, was the global epicenter of this disease with a totally overwhelmed health situation. Du its a whackamole situation. It is typical for a pandemic to spread from one place. It diminishes, moves to another place. Were seeing it now really, really breaking out in the sun belt and the southern parts of the u. S. It is very, very dangerous. A lot of things are making that the case. But dont forget, we are still in the first wave. Were having first parts of the wave appearing at different places but we havent begun to see the totally expected second and third waves happening in the fall and winter of this year, lawrence. And john heiland, were showing on the screen there today texas another record high day for Coronavirus Infections in texas. And donald trump basically polling in a tie in texas. Joe biden one point ahead. Those two things are related. And if things get worse and worse in texas with the coronavirus, who knows what happens to the president ial campaign polling. Right. I mean, lawrence, one of the things thats true is that, you know, three months ago at the beginning in the first peak of the first wave, you know, you saw the geographic split, right, where it was mostly blue states blue cities, places like, no Washington State and california were affected by the coronavirus. And out of that grew this red blue divide where the culture war that donald trump wanted to foment. He said over here is the liberals wearing the masks and we good freedom loving americans dont do that. That was an easy Political Division to try to sow and ride when most of red america hadnt been affected by coronavirus. We all said three months ago whats going to happen to the politics once this gets to red america, which it will inevitably for the reasons dr. Redlener said and others. We all wondered. Thats exactly what were seeing now, right, whether in tulsa, oklahoma, in the texas example you gave in battleground states like arizona where the easy cheap politics that trump was is a master of and that he was indulge in for the last three months started to look incredibly foolish because even the republicans in those states are looking at him and saying, this is ridiculous the way youre behaving and we care more about your life than some culture war you want to age and this is going to hurt him in a lot of states including some places like texas. And, john, the mask issue in the polling is so fascinating that you have a maximum of 22 who see masks the way donald trump sees masks. Joe biden very carefully putting his mask on and off, never been caught without it in Public Places when hes not speaking. It seems to me that that mask issue is bigger politically than we could have imagined. Much bigger. And, lawrence, ill tell you, you know, another thing that we used to talk about three months ago and i know it was a conversation that took place in the Biden Campaign and other places, right, where it was like on one side you had Public Health and on the other side you had political advantage, and they watched donald trump. They said donald trump has the air waves. Hes on television every day. Joe biden is being cautious. Hes afraid to go out on the campaign trail. Theyre trying to keep him healthy. And that was seen as a political disadvantage. Now we look up and its june and the way this disease has unfolded and the way the Politics Around it played out, it turns out that being on the side i guess in some sense logical, but being on the side of Public Health turns out to be the best political position to be in and joe biden for being cautious and abiding by the cdcs rules is now getting the benefit politically for being the one that cares about Public Health. John heiland and dr. Redlener, thanks for starting off our discussion tonight. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, lawrence. Thank you. And when we come back, we have breaking news. A bipartisan majority in the house of representatives as passed Historic Police reform bill tonight, a bill that would not have been possible just one month and a day ago when george floyd was still alive. Joy reid and trymaine lee will join us next. Y reid and trymainl join us next all strength, we aint stoppin believe me go straight till the morning look like we wont wait, were taking everything we wanted we can do it all strength, no sweat and ask your doctor about biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in certain adults. Its not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to and stay undetectable. Thats when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. 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