Yeah, i think theres different versions of it, but this to me just adds momentum for it among the democrats. And isnt it a little ironic even donald trump was saying vote for us, well support the Affordable Care act and preconditions. We covered that during the campaign. It was one of the most frustrating elements of the Campaign Just trying to set that straight. Thank you, joy. Thank you, lawrence. Have a good show. Well, we now know the revolution will be televised. Michael cohens personal revolution against the man who ruled his life for many years bill be televised. Michael cohen went on television to attack what the president said about him yesterday. He is a lawyer. He represents a client. I never directed him to do anything incorrect or wrong and he understands that. So that was yesterday. And this was this morning. First of all, nothing of the Trump Organization was ever done unless it was run through mr. Trump. He directed me as i said in my elocution, and i said as well in the plea, he directed me to make the payments. He directed me to become involved in these matters including the one with mcdougal which is really between him and david pecker and then david peckers counsel. I just reviewed the documents in order to protect him. I gave loyalty to someone who truthfully does not deserve loyalty. He was trying to hide what you were doing, correct . Correct. And he knew it was wrong . Of course. And he was doing that to help his election . You have to remember at what point in time that this matter came about two weeks or so before the election post the billy bush comments, so, yes, he was very concerned about how this would affect the election. To help his campaign. To help him and the campaign. Heres what Michael Cohen said in that interview about why federal prosecutors believe him now after he has pleaded guilty to lying to congress. The special counsel stated emphatically that the information that i gave to them was credible and helpful. Theres a substantial amount of information that they possess that corroborates the fact im telling the truth. President trump has to be worrying what that corroborating information is. Did Michael Cohen make tapes of candidate donald trump saying that the payments to silence the women had to be made to help his president ial campaign . Nbc news reports that candidate donald trump was in the room with cohen and david pecker when they were planning to use the National Enquirer to help counter negative stories about Donald Trumps relationships with women. Special prosecutor Robert Mueller filed new documents in court today on former Trump National security advisor Michael Flynn. In response to Michael Flynns presentencing memo, the mueller team wrote the court should reject the defendants attempt to minimize the seriousness of those false statements to the fbi. A sitting National Security advisor, a former head of an intelligence agency, retired Lieutenant General and 33year veteran of the armed forces knows he should not lie to federal agents. He does not need to be warned it is a crime to lie to federal agents to know the importance of telling them the truth. And the latest investigative front that has opened in trump world n Trump Inauguration. The New York Times reports that in addition to the Trump Inaugural Committee a protrump superpack is now under federal investigation. According to the times the inquiry focuses on whether people from middle eastern nations including qatar, saudi arabia and the United Arab Emirates used straw donors to disguise their donations to the two funds. Reported the Trump Inauguration paid the trump Family Businesses for rooms, meals and event space at trumps Washington Hotel and that ivanka trump was involved in directing that business to the hotel propublica reports a top inaugural planner emailed ivanka and the others at the company to express my concern that the hotel was overcharging for its event spacesying of what would happen when this was audited. And President Trump is now trying to rewrite the definition of big crime. He defended Donald Trumps hush money payments to women, payments donald trump used to deny making by telling the daily beast, quote, nobody got killed, nobody got robbed. This was not a big crime. Rudy giuliani was the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york for five years. And during that time like most u. S. Attorneys in america, most of the crimes that Rudy Giuliani prosecuted in those crimes nobody got killed. But he seemed to think that those were pretty big crimes at the time. Leading off our discussion now, chuck rosenberg, former senior fbi official and former u. S. Attorney. Jill winebanks, a former assistant watergates prosecutor, and matt warner. All three are msnbc contributors. Jill winebanks, we are seeing the cohen versus trump revolution or war, whatever it is, now take place on television. I think were going to see a lot more of it. We are going to see more of it. And i feel some sympathy for cohen and why he would want to tell his side of the story to the public when hes being attacked by the president. But as a prosecutor i have to say i dont think its the best thing for a potential cooperating witness to do on television to give testimony basically that could be used as part of cross examination at some future date. So im torn between saying he should stop doing it. I hope he has the permission of mueller to do it or he would be in as much trouble as manafort who was delivering information straight from the mueller team back to the president. Lets listen to more of what Michael Cohen said. In this shes responding to President Trump saying that Michael Cohen is lying in order to protect family members. He said in the tweets and repeated in an interview later on that basically he says, his claim, that youre lying about him to protect your wife and to protect your father. Inaccurate. He knows the truth, i know the truth, others know the truth. And heres the truth. The people of the United States of america, the people of the world dont believe what hes saying. The man doesnt tell the truth. And its sad that i should take responsibility for his dirty deeds. Chuck rosenberg, it seems risky on both ends. Michael cohen who is still part of these cases Going Forward and then donald trump whos exposed and is obviously under investigation, for either one of them to be out there kind of conducting these kind of fights on television is extraordinary. I agree with you, lawrence. As for the president it seems unlikely that anyones going to turn off that faucet. That is who he is, what he does. I imagine he will continue to tweet and talk. But jill made a very important point about mr. Cohen. Prosecutors see these two things as incompatible talking and cooperating. And so while he certainly wants to defend himself, and get that, i understand that. It really doesnt make sense that hes hoping for more consideration from prosecutors to try and make his case in the public. What it seems hes done at least with the mueller team is provide useful information theyve been able to corroborate. That should stand on its own. Thats what Michael Cohen needs to do. And frankly im with jill, he needs to do it quietly with just prosecutors and agents. Theres new reporting in the new yorker about adam schiffs intentions when he takes over the house intelligence committee. Probing trumps connections to russia, saudi arabia and other places around the world as schiff described his approach, it became clear that he wasnt just planning to cross trumps red line. He intended to obliterate it. Matt miller, your reaction. I think the problem for the president is this opens up another front against which he has to defend. And right now we already see, you know, basically every entity in which hes involved in investigation in some way. His personal business, the Trump Organization is under investigation. His ininaugural committee, transition, camp pain, his white house all under investigation. And not just under investigation by one office of the Justice Department but multiple offices. And not just under investigation by the Justice Department but by also the new York State Attorney general and multiple committees in congress. And obviously that will only get worse when we have a chairman adam schiff as opposed to just Ranking Member adam schiff with subpoena power. You cant just break even. You be to win on all of them. You cant have any of them term up criminality. A witness in one investigation who is flipped by the government becomes a cooperating witness and then participates and cooperates in other investigations. Weve seen that with Michael Flynn. Hes cooperating with two or three separate investigations. Weve seen it with rick gates whos talking with prosecutors in the Southern District of new york. When you have adam schiff opening up a new line of inquiry, every person he talks to that comes in and maybe doesnt tell the truth becomes vulnerable to a false statements charge from the government that may put them in play as a witness for the Justice Department as well. It is a problem for the president thats getting worse not better and metastasizing across multiple fronts. The democrats taking control of the house next year, making this look all the more like the watergate investigation in which you and the special Prosecutors Office were conducting your investigation at the very same time that congress was conducting its own investigations and running its own committee hearings, investigative hearings. It is exactly like that. And we try to be careful that they didnt, for example, immunize someone we thought should be a defendant. But the American Public should be able to see as they were able to do during watergate exactly what crimes have been comitted so that they can evaluate the honesty of witnesses and all the corroboration that exists. Plus there were a lot of things very misleading when the republicans were doing investigations because they refused subpoena quite obvious witnesses that should have been called. And they wouldnt investigate things like who was at the other end of that unknown phone number when don junior was making arrangements for the trump tower meeting. Those are things with subpoena power the democrats can now let americans know exactly who that phone call was to. So i think its a really good thing and with proper coordination it will not impact on the special Prosecutors Office investigation. We have a new mystery that were sort of being able to watch and politico is reporting it this way, special counsel Robert Mueller appeared to be locked in a subpoena battle with a recalcitrant witness friday in a sealed room. Oral arguments in the highly secretive fight played out behind closed doors and even took the extraordinary measure of shutting down the public the entire fifth floor where the hearing was taking place. Chuck rosenberg, is this a consideration possibly of a subpoena to the president of the United States . Possibly, lawrence. But really it could be a subpoena to just about anyone whos challenging it. Heres why. Federal rule of the criminal procedure 6e require that grand jury rules be secret. And thats strict on the government and on the court. And so if somebodys challenging litigating moving to quash or suppress a grand jury subpoena, then it would have to be heard secretly. And so we can guess, we can speculate as to who that subpoena was directed to but right now its just speculation. I think the informed guess at least tells us its a grand jury matter and thats why its under seal. Matt, its hard to think who would have any arguable grounds for trying to fight a subpoena other than the president. Yeah, the president is certainly one suspect. The others are maybe, you know, attorneys for the president. Someone like john dowd, if the special counsel was trying to pierce the attorney privilege. It could be someone inside the white house who was subpoenaed which the president is claiming executive privilege and trying to block to testify. We wont know that answer yet and probably wont for some time. But for now i think were really just speculating. Thank you all for starting off our discussion tonight. Really appreciate it. And coming up in this program, a 7yearold girl from guatemala died in custody at our southern border. Cal perry is at the border tonight and will join us with his report. He spoke to congressman beto orourke today about the death of that little girl. And up next we will do our best to answer the question i get asked more than any other when some of you stop me in the street or when im in discussion with friends, and that is where are we now . Where are we in the investigation of the president of the United States . I dont know the answer to that question, but the best person to ask is the person who wrote not just the book but the books about the first and last president who was driven from office by a special prosecutor and congressional investigations. Bob woodward joins us next. Once i started looking for it was a nobrainer. I switched to geico and saved hundreds. Thats a win. But its not the only reason i switched. The geico app makes it easy to manage my policy. I can pay my bill, add a new driver, or even file a claim. Woo, hey now thats a winwin. Thank you switch to geico®. Its a winwin. Introducing the new Capital One Savor card. Earn 4 cash back on dining and 4 on entertainment. Now when you go out, you cash in. Whats in your wallet . This is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. The president consistently underestimated the dangers posed by a small army of government investigators and reporters who were bent on prying into the innermost secrets of his white house. Those words are not mine. That was written by bob woodward, not in his new book fear about the Trump White House. Bob woodward cowrote those words with Carl Bernstein over 40 years ago in his book the final days, a dramatic account of the end of the nixon presidency that reads like todays news. The president was a man consumed by memories of past failures, a man who let his enemies dictate to him, whose actions were often reactions. He was isolated, secretive, paranoid. Sound familiar . In the final days we see the nixon team mounting a strategy that the trump team wants to copy. The president s new team would meet matters head on. They would launch a counter offensive. They wanted finally to get ahead of the problem, meet the current charges, anticipate future ones, answer them all right now, a final and definitive statement that dealt with the major allegations both directed and implied should be drafted. Sound familiar . Were going to go to a report. Youre going to end up ill be here with my version of the report and theyll have their version of the report, and the American People now essentially are going to decide it. Joining our discussion now bob woodward, associate editor of the washington post, and the author of fear, trump in the white house. Bob, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. Great to see you. The question i get all the time and i got it from a dear friend last night is where are we now, where are we in this investigation, how much more is there . And i look at your crinology of the nixon investigation. He won reelection with 49 states in the Electoral College and about 18 months or less than two years later he was on a helicopter leaving washington having resigned the presidency. Where are we now, bob . Well, i wish that could be answered. We are so many investigations and clearly the investigative walls are closing in on trump. But as we know from the watergatenixon investigation you need real high quality evidence. You cant just have speculation. You cant have people who have pled guilty of lying and then take their voices authoritated. But getting the Michael Cohen is important in so many ways. He taped conversations with trump, he was there for ten years. And you could see in that interview that there is a real sense of i got had, i got deceived, i deceived myself, im coming clean. So thats that marks a real significant turning point in all of this. But you need to do these things to convince republicans, particularly, and this was the nixon case that for a long time the nixon crowd, the republicans in the senate, in the house stuck with him. But there was an accumulation of evidence, and that evidence in its most powerful form came from nixons secret tape reco