Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell October 5, 2018

For now the schedule is procedural vote until tomorrow morning. If they do get 50 final vote by late saturday. Its hard to imagine republican senators relish holding this open any longer than they absolutely have to. But every day something new comes up, and whatever happens well all be here covering it tonight. Now its time for last word with lawrence odonnell. Good evening, rachel. And theres this thing weve seen many times in the senate where some people will stand up there and say im voting for closure, meaning i am voting to end the debate, but it does not mean i am going to vote positively at the next stage. That pretty much never happens in confirmations, but weve seen a lot of firsts in this one so far. Could you imagine any senators im trying to imagine the argument that would lead a senator to do that. The argument is the belief that the nominee or the bill in some cases deserves an actual up and down vote. And i am willing to proceed it to a nonvote. In fact, a lot of senators used to do this a lot of the time in the past. Its a very common thing. You never took the closure vote to mean the guarantee on what the next vote would be. It was simply senators saying, well, of course, this should go to a final vote. And so thats also a possibility here. And it does feel like every day this story takes another twist, this nomination takes another twist. There is a new either external or intrinsic nafactor that we werent factoring in, and so this is real news time. And youre right, Mitch Mcconnell is really worried about a welding in montana this weekend. Once again tonight Brett Kavanaugh has broken sharply with the tradition of Supreme Court nominees and has decided to make another Public Statement outside the Judiciary Committee hearing room, which is usually the only place we ever hear from a Supreme Court nominee. His first break from tradition was to go on and defend himself against dr. Christine blasey fords allegation. It was a strange performance on fox news that raised more questions than it answered and was the first time that Brett Kavanaugh lied about the drinking age in maryland being 18 when he was an 18yearold senior in high school. Tonight Brett Kavanaugh has taken to the oped page the rupert mer dock wall street journal to own an explanation for his tone in last weeks Judiciary Committee hearing which was criticized today in unprecedented remarks by john paul stevens, one of americas four retired justices of the Supreme Court who are still with us. Justice stevens comments about Brett Kavanaughs complete collapse of judicial temperament in that hearing might have been the final trigger that forced the white house strategists to deliver Brett Kavanaughs oped piece to the wall street journal tonight. Lets listen to what retired Justice Stevens said today in florida about what he saw in the hearing room last week. And this came today when Justice Stevens was speaking it came right after extended praise that he offered for Brett Kavanaughs years as a federal Appeals Court judge. In fact, Justice Stevens was especially pleased that Justice Kavanaugh approvingly cited Justice Stevens dissent in a deciding case that Justice Stevens fully supports. So in saying hes a fine, federal judge, those were his words, a fine federal judge, Justice Stevens then said this but i think that his performance during the hearings caused me to change my mind. I think theres several commentators, larry tribe among them was a constitutional professor at harvard, have written pieces in which they suggest that he has alienated he has demonstrated a potential bias and enough potential lit gaens he would not be able to perform his full responsibilities. And i think his merit in that criticism and senators should really Pay Attention to it. For the good of the court its not healthy to get a new justice that can only do a parttime job. John paul stevens was a lifetime republican when he was appointed to the Supreme Court by republican president gerald ford. Republican senator jeff flake was also bothered by Brett Kavanaughs historyonics at the hearing. I was very troubled by the tone of the remarks. It went on and the interaction with the members was sharp and partisan, and that concerns me. And i tell myself you give a little leeway because of what hes been through, but on the other hand, we cant have this on the court. We simply cant. And tonight Brett Kavanaugh is promising that we wont have this on the court. Writing in tthe wall street journal, he is saying that the person we saw in the Judiciary Committee last week will not be the person we see on the court. Brett kavanaugh wrote Going Forward you can count on me to be the same kind of judge and person i have been for my entire 28year legal career. Hardworking, even keeled, open minded, independent and dedicated to the constitution and the public good. Brett kavanaughs piece arrived at the end of day in which hida height camp announced she was voting against Brett Kavanaugh for two reasons. First she believes Christine Blasey ford, and second she believes kavanaughs tone and behavior in the hearing last week demonstrated he is not fit for the United States Supreme Court. We will have more about senator heitkamps decision later in this hour. Brett kavanaugh did not apologize for his conduct in the hearing room last week. Instead he offered words of explanation without an apology. Saying, i was very emotional last thursday, more so than i have ever been. I might have been too emotional at times. I know that my tone was sharp and i said a few things i should not have said. I hope everyone can understand i was there as a son, husband and dad. Which leaves open the question, what are the things that you should not have said . One of the most alarming things that Brett Kavanaugh did say was actually in his written Opening Statement. It was premeditated, and it was when he plunged into a rightwing Rush Limbaugh conspiracy theory. This whole twoweek effort has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit fueled with apparent pentup anger about President Trump and the 2016 election, fear that has been unfairly stoked about my judicial record, revenge on behalf of the clintons, and millions of dollars in money from outside leftwing opposition groups. This is a circus. And as we all know in the United States political system of the early 2000s, what goes around, comes around. And the man who wrote that, the man who announced very proudly that he personally wrote that statement himself word for word tonight has a piece allegedly written by him in the wall street journal that says, at times my testimony both in my opening entertainment and in response to questions reflected my overwhelming frustration at being wrongly accused. My statement and answers also reflected my deep distress at the unfairness of how this allegation has been handled. And so the Trump White House authorized a desperate last minute explanation for the conduct that Justice Stevens today found disqualifying for the Supreme Court, a court that he served on for 34 years. Conduct that jeff flake objected to. But because this is the donald Trump White House, of course, there is no apology in the oped piece. Donald trump would not allow an apology. And so is this what jeff flake needs . Will this work for republican senators Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski . A promise by Brett Kavanaugh of who he will be, as he put it, Going Forward . Were supposed to see that in a confirmation hearing. Who this person will be Going Forward. Thats what the hearing is for. Retired Justice John Paul stevens who is 98 years old and theres only two people in the history of the court who have served longer on the court than john paul stevens. John paul stevens has been able to see every televised Supreme Court confirmation hearing in history. And he has seen enough of Brett Kavanaugh. A judge who he once admired. And after seeing Brett Kavanaugh in that hearing room last week Justice Stevens decided today to take his place in history as the first former Supreme Court justice to ever publicly oppose the confirmation of a nominated Supreme Court justice. And Justice Stevens said that he was offering his opinion today, quote, for the good of the court. Leading off our discussion now lisa graves, former chief counsel for nominations for the democrats on the senate Judiciary Committee and a former Deputy Assistant attorney general. Also mimi roca, an msnbc legal contributor, and ambassador wendy sherman, global contributinger. And she helped anita hill make her way through the senate process during the Clarence Thomas confirmation. Author of the new book not for the faint of heart, lessons in power, courage and persistence. I am not aware of any former Supreme Court justice taking a public position in opposition to the nomination of a Supreme Court justice. If it happened it happened somewhere in a distant history im not aware of it. Im not aware of it either. And i think Justice Stevens has talked about in his writings as a judge and beyond about the really crucial role of the Supreme Court as an impartial tribunal for the rule of law in this country. And for him to call out judge kavanaugh is really significant. And as you point out, lawrence, the fact is these were his prepared remarks. These were premedicated. These were baseless, really baseless charges of partisanship that were intended to erase the testimony of dr. Ford. And to suggest that his anger was somehow evidence of his innocence, and he also has made this sort of crocodile tears claim that he was constrained to not speak. Clearly he can speak whenever he wishes and he speaks almost entirely through rightwing Media Outlets whether its fox news or the wall street journal, thats how he chooses to speaks. And 16 of those years were as a rightwing political operative before he became a judge. What we saw was a mass falling and revealing who he is and who he will be on the court, and thats a stain on the court if hes confirmed. You know that demeanor is a huge component of what youre doing in that room. People have to know that theyre going to feel confident in trusting you in a role like under secretary of state where youre going to be and were in the negotiations with iran over their nuclear program, youre going to have to be trusted with secrets, all sorts of things. And yes, competence, knowledge but demeanor is everything. Demeanor is everything. I mean, how do you lose sight of that . How can a moment come in a confirmation hearing where you lose your grip on what you know they want to see . Indeed, i think that kavanaugh thinks that his righteous indignation shows that he is innocent, and i think his righteous int righteous indignation is hes trying to divide us and them to say that Christine Blasey ford is Something Else than a real human being and hes the person who has standing. It is quite frankly often a very male approach to power, that righteous indignation. And the president has tried to use that to completely push us apart. We arent apart. We all care about our sons, we all care about our daughters. But what is so critical and was in the time of anita hill and hasnt been heard this time either, im sorry to say, is the pain, the suffering and the humiliation that Christine Blasey ford has had to live with all of her life. Justice stevens made a distinction between Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh today. Lets listen to that. Theres nothing that clarence did in the hearings that disqualified him from sitting in cases after he came on the court. Hes a very, very decent and likable person. And you cannot help but like Clarence Thomas, which i dont think necessarily would be true of this particular nominee. We all remember Clarence Thomas in the hearing. We all knew that he was angry and we also knew that he was containing his anger to some degree. And if he felt falsely accused the anger of course is understandable. But what he never did do was raise any kind of political reference to to anything that the democrats were doing in that hearing. Right, and thats the difference that Justice Stevens is talking about. And he referenced i think professor tribes article that he had written about why he believes Brett Kavanaugh is sort of disqualified, cannot sit properly on the court now. And its because he was so partisan that how can there are so many cases that will be before him that have as their parties in the case a political nature or a political affiliation. How could anyone who is is not affiliated now with a conservative bend or Republican Party think theyre going to get a fair shot in front of him . And the very definition of a judge of justice is people actually having a fair shot and actually believing that, right . We need people to have faith in our judicial institutions, and the only way to do that is if people think that the judge is going to be objective and look at the facts and not rule from emotion. And thats what Brett Kavanaugh showed himself really incapable of doing. Hes all emotion. And justified or not, you cant do that as a judge. And lisa, it seems that the oped piece tonight is almost a rushed answer to Justice Stevens today. Certainly they none of us saw this coming from Justice Stevens. This was actually a long scheduled minor event in florida where he was scheduled to speak because a friend invited him to. But the person interviewing him said it felt very deliberate that Justice Stevens wanted right off the bat in that interview, which i watched in its entirety, wanted to get out there and make this statement. And it seemed the white house realized theres got it be a response to this. It certainly does seem like a scramble to get this out and use the wall street journal as a vehicle to do it. And also its the case that judge kavanaugh is facing virtually unprecedented opposition by law professors from all backgrounds, right, left and middle because of his temperament, because of his behavior at the hearing last week or a week ago. And i think that what you see now is a nominee who has in essence besmirched himself through his actions. And thats even setting aside the record of him lying under oath in his previous hearings about other serious matters. And so by any objective measure this nomination would be in serious trouble. Unfortunately, were in this time of tremendous partisanship where people arent being heard and even witnesses arent being interviewed by the fbi as part of what should have been a really thorough investigation. And wendy, Heidi Heitkamp today, senator height kachl actually cited Brett Kavanaugh in the hearing, and she said she believed dr. Ford and dr. Fords testimony in her view was enhanced. This must be why theyve decided we really do have to respond to it. Yes, its really quite extraordinary. The wall street journal article, this being raised by other opinion leaders, mcconnell coming out as hard as he possibly can in support of kavanaugh, really trying to say but, you know, lawrence, the very fact they did this wall street journal article means theyre nervous, that theyre not sure theyve got the votes. So well see what tomorrow brings. Thank you for starting our discussion tonight. Todays profile in courage in the United States senate. A look at senator Heidi Heitkam

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