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Analysis and discussion of the days top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence ODonnell. Analysis and discussion of the days top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence ODonnell. Will decide if the president is likely to sit with Robert Mueller for an interview while at bedminster. But it might not be Donald Trumps decision to make, admitting that trump might be, quote, forced to testify on matters that occurred before he took office and that might mean real legal jeopardy for the president. That admission comes as we are learning new details about the trump mayor relationship. Bloomberg reports that the day after he interviewed Robert Mueller to be the Deputy Director of the fbi trump was in an Office Meeting when it was announced that mueller was announced to be the lead investigator of the campaign. Trump and Attorney General jeff session were blind sided according to a person familiar with both meetings. Trump blasted session for not knowing the announcement was coming and how he didnt know the person he just interviewed and who the president said he had a past dispute with over Golf Club Fees could be now investigating him, he said. We dont know if trump turned down mueller for the fbi job at this point, but Christopher Wray wasnt named to be director until a month after muellers appointment on counsel. Its likely mueller was in the running when he was named to investigate the trump team. Bloomberg notes, from that moment on, Trump Campaigned to aides about a perceived grudge. Of course, that grudge has likely been exacerbated by a criminal trial of the former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. Today we heard from the first five witnesses who were granted immunity by prosecutors. An accountant described how manaforts partner rick gates asked accountants to modify the amount of loans so manafort it would have pay less in taxes. He was trying to reduce income. It was inappropriate. La porta took la porta testified that manafort asked her as late as august 2016, his last month as chair of the campaign to falsify numbers related to his companys profits. Rick gates, Muellers Star Witness is set to testify any day now. He has already pleaded guilty and is cooperating with prosecutors. Kristen davis, the infamous manhattan madam met with a member of muellers team. Its believed she met with mueller because of her close ties to another trump confidant roger stone. Only time will tell what if anything will happen in this trump trip to bedminster, we should be in for an unexpectedly evidentful supper vacation. Joining us now, julia ansly. He was not courtroom today. Deputy assistant Attorney General under president clinton and glen kurshne rerkr. Jeff sessions in the room with the president when he was told Robert Mueller was going to be Special Counsel. According to bloomberg news, jeff session offered his resignation in that moment. Thats right. It for Jeff Sessions the idea that Robert Mueller had been aopponented was obvious right there, that it was because he recused himself from this investigation that third down been allowed to happen, that Rod Rosenstein was able to appoint the Special Counsel. Of course the way we see it, the logical way to see it was the appointment of Robert Mueller was because of the firing of jim comey. The fs the president s decision, not Jeff Sessions decision to recuse himself that triggers this. He knew he would also be in trouble. We look back at last summer it can number of times we were on sessions watch, thinking he was about to lose his job. The people i spoke to at the Justice Department said he will hang on by his fingernails to have this job. He thinks this is his last roll in politics. Hes wanted it for a long time. We know his last Law Enforcement days are something he holds deerly, more than his time in the senate. He saw this a the chance to push through decisions, policies on immigration and the like and he was going to hold on to it for as long as he can, but he did say this was going to be the thing to fracture the relationship. It has for some time. We saw the president attack Jeff Sessions just this week. Harry, the president obviously doesnt like Robert Mueller. We have known that for some time. He tweets about him. He does bring up what he perceives as a bias, that he almost offered him the fbi job. He had a dispute over fees at one of his clubs. Could either of those things be considered bias . So no, we already know theyre not considered because the doj gave him a clean bill of health, but its interesting because as julia says, its the Second Mueller is appointed that sessions realizes, uhoh, and thats before the makeway charges of 13 angry democrats et cetera. Who is bob mueller in that second you have the revelation hes aopponented . Hes the best, most dogged, methodical, honest prosecutor of his generation. Thats who he is then and right away the problem with him is not bias, its effectiveness, which has turned out, in fact, on the problem. Lets look at manafort and go back to julia one more time. Julia, Manaforts Trial ended its first week. Folked a lot on what we heard from the accountant, knew she was filing incorrect taxes. But also manaforts spending. There was the 15,000 ostrich coat, the bomber jacket. The prosecution is very clearly trying to paint manafort as a big spender who didnt care about cheating the government and the American People in order to furnish his very lavish lifestyle. How is the defense doing . Not as well. Right now we are seeing a list of Prosecution Witnesses who have all been picked for a particular reason. They lay out a pattern and a narrative of who Paul Manafort is. Hes someone who spent a lot of money on his lifestyle and was so desperate to hang on to that lifestyle that he was willing to exaggerate his lifestyle to get bang loans and then deflate it to get taxes. He didnt care who he took down in the process or what dirty characters head to work with to get there. What well see Going Forward is the defense is going to try again and again to discredit witnesses, particularly rick gates. We now know he will testify. The prosecution said yesterday they have every reason to bring him forward and intend on doing sophomore they want to paint rick gates as the lynch pin in the prosecutions argument and show hes not someone who can be trusted. For those reasons we want to believe the prosecution wont wait until the end to bring up rick gates so hes not the last thing in jurors mind. Another thing today that i dont think went over well, judging by how brief their questions for in the prosecution was they wanted to show Paul Manafort left plenty of bread crumbs for anyone that wanted to look into this. His first accountant was able to say, yes, i knew they were working with foreign people, but i didnt know he had foreign Bank Accounts. The defense wants to say there were plenty of bread crumbs and if his accountant didnt know it this is important because i think it will come up later in the irs didnt want to do a civil suit why is the Court Bringing up a serious case . Doesnt seem to be holding up as well as they like, simply because bread crumbs dont lead you to 34 Bank Accounts across the world. Its a little harder to get there. Vox reports that even a pardon from President Trump to Paul Manafort might not be enough to keep him out of jail. Even a pardon may not entirely be a get off jail free card. There are a host of complications involve, including Potential State Charges for manafort. The president Cannot Pardon State charges. Glen, there is a lot of talk and we talked about this earlier today about why in the world manafort hasnt made a plea deal you posture that one wasnt offered. It wouldnt surprise me if bob mueller never extended a plea offer to Paul Manafort. Why would that be . Two reasons. First of all, rick gates is already a cooperating witness nl we know his information the dup duply kative of the information Paul Manafort provided to the prosecutors. The other factor that weighs into the calculus of believe it or not we want to do business who is that person and how long as he been engage in the illegality. Paul manafort seems to have lived a long life of at least financial illegality. As we learned, in the runup to these trials he reached out and touched, so to speak, some witnesses and tried to tamper with their testimony. If you play that out, if we as prosecutors try to bring manafort in the prosecutors stable and put him on the stand, he would be cross examined up and down about, wait a minute, you tried to get witnesses to lie for you to get you out of trouble. You tried to pervert and subvert the criminal Justice System and now you want to jury to believe youre not going to sit up there and and lie to try to save your own skin . The Cooperator Stink tends to rub off on the prosecutors when you bring somebody on board that has engaged in that kind of conduct that strikes at the heart of criminal Justice System. The other reason, katy, i would suggest might impact Paul Manaforts decision to flip and provide information to bob mueller, he would also be providing information about russian oligarchs. We know judge ellis doesnt like that word. What have we seen russia do when somebody crosses them . We have seen poisonings in the uk. I think Paul Manafort could have concern for his safety or the safety of his Family Members if he decided to flip against russia. Manaforts trial is really just about financial crimes but it is part of the larger Russian Investigation. Theres an of tentacles. In one of the more ridiculous seeming tentacles we found today, the manhattan madam, kristen davis, the woman charged in the Elliot Spitzer scandal years ago was subpoenaed by muellers team. We have now learned today that she has spoken toe muellers team. Roger stone issued a statement about this. Kristin davis is a long friend of mine. Im the godfather to her 2yearold son. She knows nothing about russian collusion or wikileaks or any other thing. Also this News Washington post reports that another stone aide has been ordered to speak with Robert Mueller. This man was trying to not speak with him. One of his aides, was trying to say the Special Counsel as probe was too wide and he shouldnt have to follow a subpoena. The court ruled he should have to talk to Robert Mueller and should do so quickly. Harry, these two people, what do they have anything to do with this and what does it have anything to do with roger stone . Its all about roger stone. Theyre a colorful could be, arent they . Theyre zeroing in on stone and shes one of many people they want to talk to, the others havent been madams. Miller is to stone as gates was to manafort. Hes the right hand man. He offered the constitutional argument, which was a loser saying mueller has no ability to did anything. The same thing manafort tried. He lost. Hes going to have some real information to provide. The main thing it shows is that the sights are really locked in on stone, which should come as know surprise because this recent indictment of the gru folks in russia actually didnt name him because of doj policy but identified him in paragraph 44 as someone who had consorted with him. So mueller is obviously trying to stitch up russia and the u. S. Looking very hard at stone. And whether or not stone was a potential back channel. Julia, i know from reporting i did with carol lee and others here that the witnesses that Robert Mueller so far has spoken to they have been asked by muellers team pretty pointed questions about roger stone. What did roger stone any . What was he doing . Did he really leave the campaign in 2015 . Stone says he quit. The trump team said he was fired. Did he really leave or was there some unofficial role he was playing Behind The Scenes . Was he potentially in contact with russia or wikileaks and feeding that material to donald trump . Why did donald trump say on july 27, 2016, russia, if youre listening find Hillary Clintons emails . It seems like sam nunberg will tell you this. He sat in front of the Special Counsel. Seem like theyre targeting roger stone and he could potentially be a lynch pin. Is that saying too much . Is that making too broad an assumption . Katy, this why i love reporting with you. Doesnt seem that hard to connect that by indictments that have been brought forward by the Special Counsel that Robert Mueller is honing in on this network of russians that wanted to influence our campaign through social media, that they wanted to hack into the dnc, Hillary Clinton emails and also use that information to influence our election. A huge piece of this is social media and the work they did through Cambridge Analytica and the leaks of those facts through wikileaks. We know roger stone has a lot of tentacles in those worlds. Hes done a hot of work in england. Hes tied to the Trump Campaign. We have to look carefully at the way theyre painting these characters. These are people who have been in republican politics for a long time. These Arent The People who were carrying the moral backbone of the party. They were really in it. He believe the ends justify the means. I think by the pointed questions you have reported on, the interviews you have done with sam nunberg Its So Obvious Mueller is really targeting those essential questions. Roger stone was not in mainstream politics, neither was sam nunberg, neither was Paul Manafort yet they managed to find Donald Trumps team. Was it because there was no one else available . Thanks for starting us off tonight, guys. Coming up, the Washington Post is alleging Mariia Butina cozies up to a Trump Adviser weeks after the campaign. Later, a federal judge says he will order the Trump Administration to take a drastic step to reunite those children with their parents. Thats coming up. Friends, colleagues, gathered here are the worlds finest insurance experts. Rodney mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. The list goes on. How about a discount for long lists . Gold. Mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. Its a gift. And jamie. Present. Together we are unstoppable. So, what are we gonna do . Insurance. Thats kind of what we do here. Then you might have a dcondition called dry mouth. . Biotene is clinically proven to soothe and moisturize a dry mouth. Plus, it freshens breath. Biotene. Immediate and long lasting dry mouth Symptom Relief. Keep it comin love. If you keep on eating, well keep it comin. All you can eat riblets and tenders at applebees. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. 2016, culminating in gordon attending a rock concert by the band styx. Gordon also invited butina to attend his Birthday Party. Roz lynn, im sorry im laughing but inviting her to an styx party his Birthday Party is funny. Heres what j. D. Gordon told you. From everything ive read since her arrest last month, it seems that Mariia Butinas saga is a sensationalized click bait story meant to smear a steady stream of republicans and nra members she reportedly encountered over the past few years. Since She Networked so often i wonder which prominent republican figures she has not come across. I got to tell you from the photos of butina, she has Beenened Staing next to prominent figures, including president ial candidates long before donald trump got the nomination and prominent nra members. What makes the interaction with j. D. Gordon so important . Part of it is his connection to the Trump Campaign, and its clear from emails that are described to us that was a key part of why she sort of sought out this interaction. She apparently med j. D. Gordon at an event at the swiss embassy. He was with paul eriksen the russian operative she was dating. Paul then sebt nt an email to. And miss butina after the event. Paul described j. D. By saying hes an important person in the Trump Administration. Hes an important voice that people listen to on national policy. That seems to be an important part of why she was making contact with him. Let me ask you more about the Trump Campaign Foreign Policy advisers. They were not visible opt campaign, not really. People like George Papadopoulos, not around. I never saw him on the campaign. J. D. Gordon was named. Didnt see him on the campaign. These names seem to come not out of nowhere. But the Trump Organization was asked to release a list. It kind of felt like these people were just random people they put on a list and sent to reporters. Now it look like theres something more there. Given that carter was somebody that the Intelligence Community had their eye on because of the interactions he was having with russians. George papadopoulos, who its reported started this whole investigation because he was bragging to an australian diplomat in a london bar that russia had dirt on Hillary Clinton and now j. D. Gordon linking these two seemingly separate investigations on a russian influence campaign. Yeah, ive done quite a bit of reporting on carter page and George Papadopoulos in particular and one of the things that struck me about them was they aggressively sought out the connection with the Trump Campaign at a time when, as you mentioned, the campaign was having a devil of a time finding sort of figures who they could tout at Foreign Policy advisers. We did a story once quoting a Trump Adviser at the time saying anybody with a pulse was what they were looking for. And people like george and carter were people with a pulse who stepped forward and said, choose us. I got to tell you the day i saw George Papadopouloss picture i was taken aback. I didnt expect somebody so young. Harry, what stands out to you about this. Shes 29. Hes 50. We have the vanity of older men. This is the exact agency it occurred, to me, of garry heart and donna rice in Monkey Business time. And the whole kind of younger woman, you know, using older guys to get political influence. But what stand out the me is you said it whats the defense of j. D. Gordon . I dont know if theres a prominent republican political official She Hasnt Met with. Shes penetrating everywhere and anywhere she can with the help of this republican operative. And as you say, lover, keith eriksen. It just seems like this is not a sort of one week little story and episode. But she really got around. Harry, just really quickly could this new what rozlynn uncovered say they didnt know about it could this prompt them to call her in for questioning . Well, shes arrested. Obviously. Talk to her. Shes going to have enormous pressure on her. Theyll talk to her, but theres some members in the Campaign Many her wide circle and theyre zero in like gordon. We already know of a couple of others. Thats what will really interest them. The people from the campaign. The Masquerade Party after the election. Got it. Guys thank you very much. Coming up, a federal judge gave the Trump Administration a sharp reminder about the suffering of the children separated from their parents and who is to blame with it. videogame dance music burke abstract accident. Seen it. Covered it. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum no matter how much you clean, does your house still smell stuffy . Thats because your home is filled with soft surfaces that trap odors and release them back into the room. So, try febreze fabric refresher. Febreze finds odors trapped in fabrics and cleans them away as it dries. Use febreze every time you tidy up to keep your whole house smelling fresh air clean. Fabric refresher even works for clothes you want to wear another day. Make febreze part of your clean routine for whole home freshness. If yor crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough, it may be time for a change. 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The Trump Administration proposed that the aclu take responsibility for finding and locating the hundreds of missing parents, saying they have more resources to track them down, more resources then the federal government. Today a federal judge rejected that proposal and blasted it as unacceptable. All of this is the result of the governments separation and then inability and failure to track and reunite. And the reality is that for every parent who is not located, there will be a permanently orphaned child, ands that 100 the responsibility of the administration. That same judge is now ordering the white house to designate a person or team within the administration to take control of the reunification process. Joining us now is maria three a kumar and amir standen. She was Hillary Clintons Policy Director during the 2008 president ial campaign. There still Isnt Somebody in charge of this. The court is ordering them to get somebody in charge of the reuniting. Yes. I mean, we have been going through this saga for months and more importantly, these children have been going through this pain and misery at the hand of the Trump Administration for months. And every night that these children do not know where their parents are is an unacceptable atrocity. And the reality is ivanka trump said yesterday, the Family Separation Policy was a true low point for her. She is a Senior Adviser to the president of the United States. She works in the white house. I suggest, if this is a low point for her and she actually cares about this, she figures out along with the white house Chief Of Staff and everybody in the white house how to address this problem. I mean, the reality that the government did not track the parents along with their children and have no simple way of identifying the parents even though they may have already been deport second down an outrage and needs to be addressed not next week, not tomorrow. It need to be addressed now. Consider this maria theres now analysis of Immigration Data that find parents were targeted. Parents were targeted under this Zero Tolerance policy. This is from the transactional records clearinghouse at syracuse university. They found that they prosecutored parents with kids coming across the border. Only 32 of those caught crossing the border were charged. An indication it was in the a Blanket Policy but a targeted effort directed at parents with kid. Let me repeat that. Their finding from this analysis the adults coming over alone were treated differently and better it seems than the dulls coming over with kid. This demonstrates that the Trump Administration was trying to exact maximum pain to the most vulnerable. The people that are three fleeing the families fleeing traversed three to four countries to come here mostly with the clothes on their back to give their children a shot. The Trump Administration when they said they were going to do Zero Tolerance it wasnt blanketed. It was targeted at children, targeted at families. They turned around and put the children and babies in cages. Theres not going to be a remedy in the near future to make sure these children are not unified but theyre receiving the medical attention because the trauma we are starting to hear is happening to these children some dont want to speak out loud. Some follow their Apparents Room to room. Some curl up because theyre so afraid they are not going see their parents. Then others are just plain angry. Then the fact that Attorney General Jeff Sessions stared in the camera to the American People and said he was going establish a Zero Tolerance policy and now to find it one Zero Tolerance it was aimed at the most vulnerable, the parents and children should be a Heart Wrenching reminder of the American People to the cruelty of this administration. When ivanka trump look at the American People and says this is something shes painfully aware and she something we shouldnt be doing, i agree with mira she should say shes going do immigrant to stop it. I encourage her to visit the border. Hold on, though. This nonsense theyre telling the aclu that they should be reunifying the parents is a shame though. Its the federal governments responsibility. I want to zero in on one point. Jeff sessions announced this policy in the spring. Then when the policy was backfiring and they were getting the negative headlines and the pictures looked bad, but, you know, lives were actually much worse, they said over and over again, this administration kear Kirstjen Nielsen said this is not a policy. Not only was it a policy, but it was aimed at parents. No not just anybody crossing the border but parents specifically. Cruel intentioned. Thats right. Whats interesting is one of their largest security that provided security for pakistan in that country under u. S. Control, they received a Government Contract two weeks before the policy of Family Separation was announced. They were the ones housing children not in accommodating facilities. They discovered they were in phoenix in regular Office Buildings that didnt have kitchens. One bathroom. Held the toddlers were weeks without having them go outside. These neighbors broke the story. These individuals got a contract two weeks before the story. Coming up, if you dont fully understood what happened in the meeting with donald trump and Vladimir Putin, youre not alone. Neither does the director of national intelligence. Stay with us. With tough food, your dentures may slip and fall. New fixodent ultramax hold gives you the strongest hold ever to lock your dentures. So now you can eat tough food without worry. Fixodent and forget it. Sfx [cell phone dialing] no. No, no, no, no, no. Cancel. Cancel. Please. Aaagh being in the know is a good thing. Thats why discover will alert you if your Social Security number is found on any one of thousands of risky sites. 2018 elections are real and ongoing, but just six hours later, six hours, donald trump contradicted his own intelligence officials as a rally in pennsylvania. In helsinki, i had a great meeting with putin. We discussed everything. I had a great meeting. The russians are looking for every opportunity to continue their pervasive efforts to undermine our fundamental values. Russia is very unhappy that trump won. That i can tell you. But i got along great with putin. As i have said consistently, russia attempted to entire fear with the last election and continues to engage in maligned influence Op Addressings to this day. Nower we are being hindered by the russian hoax. Its a hoax. We acknowledge the threat. It is real. It is continuing and we are doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the American People can have trust in. Its almost as if there are two administrations, one led by grownups who are trying to protect our democracy be the other what wonts to butt no matter how they try to sidestep, trump never fails to wears them and communicate his real feel g feelings. He never accepted he got elected with russian help and is not about to make an allout push to stop it in 2018. There are only 118 days until 2018 elections. Can they Work Together without the help of the commander in chief . Without the help of the president . Well discuss that next. Your Insurance Company is gonna raise your rate after the other car got a scratch so small you coulda fixed it with a pen. Maybe you should take that pen and use it to sign up with a different Insurance Company. For drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual wont raise their rates because of their first accident. 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You have National Security leaders who understand this kind of thing need to be communicated to the support our leaders as they hopefully Do The Right Thing or elect leaders in congress specifically who will Do The Right Thing, who will support sanctions that are Strong Enough to deter russia. But i think whats also happening, my read of it anyway, as we get closer to the midterms and as it becomes clear to the American People that the russians did attack our election and did use the Republican Party especially through its candidate, donald trump, to make the attack and now the Republican Party is sort of lying down on the job or its elected leaders, i think theres got to be increasing pressure to show the American People that the administration on some level is trying to Do The Right Thing. Thats why i think those National Security leaders end up on the podium in the pressroom, even though six hours later the president gets up and says its a hoax. Hes keeping them in the dark and brainwashed whereas the republicans who are concerned by Donald Trumps open betrayal of the country in helsinki are seeing, okay, part of the administration is doing the right thing. Maybe i can still vote republican. Do you think theyre in the dark and brainwashed . I think its time for us to start thinking about some of the base being brainwashed. Theres this qanon, this conspiracy theory. The Conspiracy Theories on the far right are growing and spreading and becoming less part of the fringe discourse and working their way into the main stream. Its becoming more of the case. And in my mind thats a piece of brainwashing. I mean were talking about people existing in alternative Information Environments that have no bearing on fact or reason. And thats where some of his base is. It is almost like there are two administration. One led by grown ups like those National Security advisers you just saw, and the other one led by donald trump, a man who wants to bear hug the guy who attacked our democracy. Yeah, i mean, just think about the fact that we had all those leaders of our Intelligence Community, a leader of the fbi, the dni, all walk out and make the statements they did. And of course, its not just their work. They are basing this on the work of hundreds if not thousands of intelligence people, you know, working under the cia, the fbi, et cetera, gathering intelligence about the threat our country faces right now. And then hours later donald trump continues with the language of a russian hoax. Just weeks after Vladimir Putin said that he wanted trump to win and donald trump said that he basically believed Vladimir Putin over the people arrayed at the white house podium yesterday. And i think the reality of this is if you are concerned about the threat that exists from russia, not just what theyve done in the past but what they are doing today and what they will do in the future, you cannot count on the president of the United States. We have an extraordinary moment when theres really two administrations. Theres the President Trump himself and then the Intelligence Community, and they have really leaned up just as opposed to him on this fundamental issue. So the question needs to be asked. Is the administration concerned about sending mixed messages to russia . Heres what one of the Strategic Communications director told kristen walker. President trump last night at his rally said the Russian Investigation is a hoax. Doesnt that undercut thought at all. I think we made it very clear the president last may in 2017 directed the administration to be tough and strengthen Cyber Security measures. Are you concerned, though, it sends a mixed message to russia . No, not at all. The only one sending mixed messages are the media. Its only the media. I mean, this is the talking point every single day which is were all supposed to just basically ignore what donald trump says. Sarah Huckabee Sanders says this on occasion, the white house Strategy Communications strategy is to just actually the broad public except for their base is supposed to ignore what the president says, but his base is supposed to take everything he says literally. I mean, its ridiculous and outrageous that we have this kind of thing about, you know, not a partisan battle or just two sides of a debate on taxes or something. This is about americas National Security. This is about our elections and democracy. And the fact that the white house, the president of the United States just cannot make the statement about the threat that exists from russia is ridiculous and shows that hes got it makes people think they have something on him. Let me ask this question of you, evan. Can our Intelligence Community, can our agencies effectively push back against russian interference, the Cyber Warfare if the president s not onboard . They can do a lot, but they cant do enough. What really needs to happen here is deterrence. Because were never going to be able to block every cyber intrusion and disinformation campaign. You just cant do it, so youve to deter. And deterrence the best vehicle for that is through sanctions. That has to be done by congress, which is why the midterms are so critical. Evan mcmullin, good to see you. Tonights last word is next. I didnt believe it. Again. Ooh, baby, do you know what thats worth . I want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ooh im not hearing the confidence. Okay, hold the name your price tool. Power of options based on your budget and well make heaven a place on earth yeah oh, my angels ooh, heaven is a place on earth [ sobs quietly ] ooh, heaven is a place on earth thats confident. But its not kayak confident. 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