Analysis and discussion of the days top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence ODonnell. Jeopardy for the president. Were learning more about the trumpmueller relationship. The day after he interviewed Robert Mueller to be the director of the fbi, trump was in an Oval Office Meeting when an aid announced that mueller had been appointed the Special Counsel to investigate the Trump Campaign. Trump and Attorney General jeff session, who attended both meetings were blind sided according to a person familiar with both meetings. The president immediately blasted sessions for not knowing the announcement was coming and challenged how the person he just interviewed for the fbi job and who trump had said he had a past dispute with over Golf Club Fees could now be investigating him, the person said. Now, we dont know if trump had turned down mueller for the fbi job at this point. But we do know that Christopher Wrey wasnt named until a month after. Read on the man, he knew he would also be in trouble. We look back the last summer and the number of times we were on sessions watch and the people i talked to at the Justice Department said he will hang on by his fingernails for this job. He thought this was his last role in politics. It is one he wanted to get to for a long time. His former Law Enforcement days are some of the days he holds most dearly. And he saw this as his last big role and really his place to be able to push through a lot of the decisions, a lot of these policies on immigration and the like. He was going to hold on to it for as long as he could. He did see this would be the thing that would fracture the relationship. It has for some time. We saw the president attack Jeff Sessions just this week. Harry, the president obviously doesnt like robert lets talk about manafort for a second and go back to julia one more time. Julia, manaforts trial has just now ended its first week. It focussed a lot around what we heard from the accountant today talking about how she knew she was filing incorrect taxes. But also there was that 15,000 ostrich coat, that bomber jacket. The prosecution is very clearly trying to paint manafort as a big spender that didnt care about cheating the government and the American People in order to furnish his very lavish lifestyle. How is the defense doing . Not as well, katie. Right now were seeing a list of prosecution witnesses. They lay out a pattern of who Paul Manafort is. He spent a will the of money on his lifestyle and is so desperate to hang on to that lifestyle that he was willing to exaggerate his income in order to get bank loans and then deflate his income in order to get a deal on taxes. He didnt care who he took down in the process and He Didnt Care what kind of dirty characters he had to work with in order to get there. We will see now Going Forward is the defense is going to try again and again to discredit witnesses, particularly gates. We now know he will testify. The prosecution said yesterday they have ever reason to bring him forward. They want to paint him as the lynch pin in the prosecutions argument and they want to show he is not someone that can be trusted. For those reasons we actually believe that the prosecution wont wait until the end to bring up rick gates. May bring him up early next week so he isnt the last thing in jurors minds when they go to deliberate. Another thing that i dont think went over very well judging by how brief their questions were is they wanted to show that Paul Manafort had left plenty of bread crumbs for anyone that might want to look into this. That with his first accountant who has not gotten immunity because he didnt do anything wrong. He refused to lie for Paul Manafort. He was basically able to say, yes, i knew they were working with foreign people, but i didnt know he had Foreign Bank Accounts. The defense wants to say there were plenty of bread crumbs if his accountant didnt know it, and this is important, and if the irs didnt want to do an audit and bring a civil case against Paul Manafort, why all these years later is a Justice Department bringing a serious Criminal Case . But it doesnt seem to be holding up as well as they would like, particularly because bread crumbs dont leave you directly to 30 Foreign Bank Accounts around the world. Its harder to get there. Even a pardon from President Trump to Paul Manafort might not be enough to keep him out of jail. Even a pardon may not entirely be a get owl of jail free card. There are a host of
complications involved. The president Cannot Pardon State charges. Glen, there is a lot of talk. We talked about this earlier today, about why in the world manafort hasnt made a plea deal. You posture that maybe a plea deal wasnt offered. I have to say, katie, it wouldnt surprise me if bob mueller never extended a plea offer to Paul Manafort. Why would that be . For two reasons. First of all, rick gates is already a cooperating witness. We know that rick gates information is somewhat duplicative of the information that Paul Manafort could provide to the prosecutors. And then the other factor that i think weighs into the calculus when we look at whether we want to actually do business with a defendant and bring him into our stable of cooperators, who is that person and how long has he
been engaged in illegality. As we all came to learn in the runup to these trials, he actually reached out and touched, so to speak, some witnesses and tried to tamper with their testimony. Now, if you play that out, if we as prosecutors decided to bring manafort into the cooperators stable and then we put him on the stand, he would be cross examined up and down on things like, well, wait a minute, mr. Manafort, you tried to get witnesses to lie for you to get you out of trouble. You tried to pervert and subvert the criminal justice system. And now you want the jury to believe you are not going to sit up there and lie to try to save your own skin . You know, the cooperators stink tends to rub off on the prosecutors when you bring somebody on board that has engaged in that kind of conduct
that really strikes at the very heart of the criminal justice system. And then the other reason, katie, that i would suggest might impact Paul Manaforts thinking about whether he wants to flip and provide information to bob mueller, he would also be providing information about russian oligarchs. We know the judge doesnt like that word. But what have we seen russia do when somebody crosses them . We have seen poisoning in the u. K. And i think Paul Manafort could legit have concerns for his safety. So manaforts trial is about financial crimes, but it is part of a larger russia investigation. One of the more ridiculous seeming tentacles we have news on today, the manhattan madam, kristin davis, the woman charged in the Elliot Spitzer scandal
many years ago has spoken to muellers team. This is a longtime friend and associate of mine. I am the god father to her twoyearold son. She knows nothing about alleged russian collusion or any other impropriety related to the 2016 election, which i thought was the subject of this probe. I understand she appeared voluntarily. I am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. Another stone aid has been ordered to speak with Robert Mueller. This man was trying to not speak with him. One of his aids was trying to say that the Special Counsels
probe was too wide and he shouldnt have to follow a subpoena. Well, a court has testified or has ruled that he should have to talk to Robert Mueller and he should do so quickly. Harry, what are these two people how do they have anything to do with this . And what does this mean for roger stone . Yeah. It is all about stone. Look, the madam is a theyre a colorful couple. But it is because of their longstanding friendship they are zeroing in on stone. Miller is kind of twostone as gates was to manafort. Hes the real righthand man. He offered this constitutional argument, which is a real loser, basically saying mueller has no authority to do anything, the same thing manafort tried in edva. He will have some real information to provide. But the main thing it shows is that the sights are really locked in on stone, which should come as no surprise because this recent indictment of the gru folks in russia actually didnt name him because doj policy but identified him in paragraph 44 as someone who had consorted
with him. So mueller is obviously in trying to stitch up russia and the u. S. Looking very hard at stone. And whether or not stone was a potential back channel. Julia, i know from reporting have i done with others here that the witnesses that Robert Mueller is so far spoken to, they have been asked by muellers team pretty pointed questions about roger stone. And what did roger stone know . What was he doing . Did he really leave the campaign in 2015 . Stone says he quit. The trump team said he was fired. But did he really leave or was there some sort of unofficial role that he was playing Behind The Scenes . Was he potential in contact with russia or wikileaks and feeding that material to donald trump . Why did donald trump say,
russia, if you are listening, find Hillary Clintons emails. It seems like and sam nunberg will tell you this, it seems like they are targeting stone and he could potentially be a lynch pin. Is that making too broad an assumption . This is why i love your reporting on this. But it doesnt seem that hard to connect that we know from indictments that have already been brought forward by the Special Counsel that Robert Mueller is interested in and honing in on this network of russians that wanted to influence our campaign through social media. They wanted to hack into the dnc, Hillary Clinton emails and use that information to also influence our election. And a huge piece of this is social media and the work they did through cambridge, as well
as the leaks of those hacks they just talked about through wikileaks. Roger stone has a lot of tentacles in those different worlds. He was very closely tied to the Trump Campaign. We have to look across the way theyre painting these characters, the same way they are talking about Paul Manafort and trial. These are people who have been in republican politics for some time. But they havent been carrying the moral backbone of the party. They believe that the ends justify the means. I think just by the pointed questions that you have reported on, the interviews you have done, it is so obvious that mueller isnt just beating around the bush and seeing what might come out here, he is really targeting those essential questions. Roger stone was not in mainstream politics. Neither was Paul Manafort for that matter. Yet, they somehow all managed to find Donald Trumps team. Thanks for starting us off tonight, guys. Thanks, katie. Coming up, the Washington Post is reporting tonight that
the alleged russian agent cozied up to a Trump Adviser the final weeks of the 2016 campaign. The reporter who broke that story will join us right after this. And later, a federal judge says he will order the Trump Administration to take a drastic step to reunite those children with their parents. Thats coming up. Because youve made sure this sensor and this machine are integrated. She can talk to him, yes. Atta, boy. Some people assign genders to machines. And you can be sure you wont have any problems. Except for the daily theft of your danish. Not cool at t provides edge to edge intelligence. It can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. Thats the power of. This shipment will be delivered. Alleged russian agent was in closer contact with President Trumps orbit than previously known. She was in jail awaiting trial after she was charged with illegally trying to influence u. S. Politics for the kremlin. Tonight the Washington Post reports that she sought out interactions with j. D. Gordon who served for six months as the Trump Campaigns director of National Security before leaving in august 2016 and being offered a role in the trump transition effort. The two exchanged several emails in september and october 2016 culminating in an invitation from gordon to attend a concert by the rock band styx in washington. I cant make that up. Gordon also invited butima to attend his Birthday Party. Joining us is the reporter that broke this story. Im sorry i am laughing but
inviting her to a styx concert and his Birthday Party is a funny story. Here is what j. D. Gordon told you tonight. From everything i have seen or read, everything i have read since her arrest last month, it seems that this is basically a sensationized bait click story trying to Scheme Republicans and nra members she reportedly encounters over the past few years. I wonder which prominent republican political figures she has not come across. I got to tell you from the photos i have seen, she has been standing next to some prominent political figures, including former president ial candidates long before donald trump got the nomination and prominent nra members. What makes the interaction with
j. D. Gordon so significant . Well, i think part of it is his connection to the Trump Campaign and its clear from emails that were described to us that that was a key part of why she sort of sought out this interaction. She apparently met j. D. Gordon at an event at the swiss embassy. She was with the republican operative she was apparently dating. And paul then sent an email both to j. D. And to ms. Butina after the event, reconnecting them and describing them to one another. And the way he described j. D. Was to say this is a person who is very important in the trump transition. Hes the kind of person that all the right people listen to his advice on international policy. So it did seem that the trump connection was part of why she was making contact with him. Let me ask you more about theTrump CampaignForeign Policy advisers. They were not visible on the campaign, not really. People like george pop, these names seem to come out of not come out of nowhere. The Trump Campaign was pressured to release a list of who was advising him. And at the time, considering that nobody was answering the phone and nobody made appearances, it felt like these people were just ran don people they put on a list and sent to reporters. Now it looks like there is something more there. Given that carter was somebody
that the Intelligence Community had their eye on because of the interactions he was having with russians. The one who its reported started this whole investigation because he was bragging to an australian diplomat in a london bar that russia had dirt on Hillary Clinton and now j. D. Gordon linking these two seemingly separate investigations on a russian influence campaign. Yeah. I have done quite a bit of reporting on carter page and george p. In particular. One of the things that struck me about the two of them is they aggressively sought out the connection with the Trump Campaign at a time when, as you mentioned, the campaign was having a devil of a time finding figures they could taut as Foreign Policy advisers. We did a story once quoting Trump Adviser at the time saying, basically, anybody with a pulse was what they were looking for. Yeah. And people like carter were people with a pulse that stepped forward and said choose us. The day i saw georges picture, i was taken aback. I did not expect to see somebody so young. Harry, what stands out to you about this. Speaking of so young, shes
29. Hes 50. So we have again the sort of vanity of older man. For historians of political scandals, this is the exact ages of Monkey Business time and the whole kind of younger woman, you know, using older guys to get political influence. But what stands out to me is you said it, you know, what is the defense of j. D. Gordon . I dont know if there is a prominent republican political official She Hasnt Met with. Shes penetrating anywhere and everybody she can with the help of this republican operative and, as you say, a lover of keith erickson. This is not just one week little story and episode. But she really got around. Harry, just really quickly, could this new information, they know about most things, but say they didnt know ab