Analysis and discussion of the days top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence ODonnell. Analysis and discussion of the days top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence ODonnell. Rudy giuliani told politico today that the trump team wants to rule outofbounds about half of what Robert Mueller wants to discuss the president. Quote, we dont want questioning on obstruction. They would have to concede that. Robert mueller would not be allowed to ask President Trump what he said to james comey about the fbi investigation of michael flynn. James comey says that the president told him, i hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting flynn go. Hes a good guy. I hope you can let this go. The only area that the trump team would consider allowing is how donald trump and his campaign interacted with russians during the president ial campaign. A week after reports that trumps personal lawyer Michael Cohen is willing to testify that donald trump knew about the meeting in trump tower with russians during the campaign
before it occurred. Nbc news is reporting today that the Special Prosecutor now wants to interview someone who helped arrange that meeting. The Special Prosecutor has requested an interview with the russian pop star who sent emails to donald trump jr. To arrange that meeting in trump tower. His American Lawyer told nbc news conversations are ongoing about a potential interview and that it is, quote, unclear how this will play out. Which, as of tonight, could serve as the headline for the status of everything. Still under investigation by the Special Prosecutor. Unclear how this will play out. Leading off our discussion now, joyce nance, former Special Prosecutor. And former counsel to the mayor of New York City and eugene robinson, Opinion Writer for the washington post. Hes an msnbc political analyst. And you are a former federal
document, nothing. If there has been communication about this recently from the mueller team to the giuliani team, we have to believe Rudy Giulianis account of that, which is an extremely difficult thing to do. But lets do it for the sake of this discussion. But the truth is we have no idea what communication has been going on. But if the giuliani conditions are whats being communicated to mueller, is there any way for mueller to accept those conditions . It really depends on what mueller thinks he needs out of this interview. And of course we dont know all of the cards that hes holding right now. But one thing prosecutors dont do when they need an interview with a witness, they dont negotiate because they have the subpoena power. And it is abundantly clear at least in my judgment that they dont Plan On Indicting the president because they are seeking this interview. According to giuliani and the president s lawyers, they have
already said he is a subject, not a target. If Mueller Needs Information that giuliani and the other lawyers arent willing to seed them the authority to ask, they will simply issue a subpoena for the president and then let that run its way through the Court Process. How long would that take through the Court Process . You know, thats a really good question. It would depend on which grand jury they use. They could either go through d. C. Or through virginia, which would be the fourth circuit. Even if those were treated as emergency appeals, it would stretch on for some time. Then it would likely go up to the United States Supreme Court. They could either decide it or return it in part to the lower court. We could be looking at a process that would stretch out over months. Thats one of the reasons why republicans are racing as fast as they can to confirm the next Supreme Court justice, it is the route that joyce just described. But the giuliani game of he wants to testify. The New York Times reporting last night as if it was Breaking News that there are people in the white house who tell the New York Times that the president really wants to talk to the Special Prosecutor, but it is his lawyers who are reluctant. There is absolutely no way to back that up. We have no idea whether donald trump actually wants to talk to mueller or not. All the indicators are that hes desperately afraid of talking to mueller. Yeah. He ought to be, i think. If hes not. It is true that donald trump does appear to believe he can talk his way out of anything, just by lying, basically. That would be a really, really bad strategy to take into a meeting with the prosecutors. And that surely is what his lawyers are worried about. I do believe that his lawyers dont want him to go in there and talk. And as to whether, you know, he really wants to do it or really doesnt want to do it, who
knows. It could depend on the day. But as you said at the beginning, if were taking Rudy Giulianis word for this, we are really out on a very slender limb. Its frankly hard to talk about what rudy says because we know that a lot of it, and i think the technical term for it is total crap. I mean, its just not true. Lets listen to the way the president s allies are talking about this possible interview publically. Lets listen to the way Newt Gingrich describes the situation. I think the president is very unwise to walk into a perjury trap against a group of smart guys who have spent a years time getting ready to try to kill him. And i think he is not no one is smart enough to take on all of muellers team. And of course there is no such thing as a perjury trap. All you have in perjury is
my view would be an admission of guilt, particularly on an obstruction charge, which is why they dont want obstruction as part of the interview. That part i believe. If there is an interview, they dont want any conversation about obstruction. I think it actually points to something that i think i will disagree with joyce on. It is one thing to say hes a subject, that donald trump is a subject of an investigation. Subjects can become targets. The fact they have said hes a subject doesnt mean he can become a target, which is the very reason why they dont want him to testify. I think youre absolutely right. This entire political strategy, not legal strategy, but political strategy has been to convince the trump base that there is nothing they should be concerned about in terms of trumps behavior. Here is the question i would ask anyone without regard to political affiliation. If you have nothing to hide, you cooperate. This is not cooperation. Yeah. And, joyce, to that issue of subject versus target, it is a
potentially of an impeachment proceeding if the Folks On The Hill at that point were deciding to go that direction, rather than making the president the target of an investigation and also an indictment. When you are using the word target, you mean in direct relationship to the other worth indictment. Yeah, exactly. Thats a term of art within the department of justice. But he is, in effect, gene robinson, a target for impeachment in the outcome of this investigation, especially on the question of obstruction of justice. The only person who could obstruct justice in this story is donald trump. Yeah. And certainly the only person who has done it repeatedly and in public to say nothing of what he might have done in private that we dont know about. I guess one question i would have about this whole stage of the investigation is whether the president could in fact be named, if there is a conspiracy alleged in the final analysis by mueller, if he could be named as an Unindicted Coconspirator as Richard Nixon was years ago . Is that a possibility to joyce or mia . I think to joyces point, which is an important one, this does depend on how the department of justice looks at this institutionally. We already have a congress thats going after Rod Rosenstein for impeachment literally for acquitting his responsibility to the United States of america. Its very hard to know. But i actually think, and im one of the folks that thinks that it also depends what the court of Public Opinion says. If there is sufficient evidence
that becomes public that donald trump committed crimes beyond obstruction of justice, which i think is already in the public record, that there could be a reckoning that creates even potentially constitutional crisis. But certainly Unindicted Coconspirator would be if there is sufficient direct evidence. Last word on Unindicted Coconspirator. I think its likely that we will see the president as an Unindicted Coconspirator. What that means is he wont be named. He wont be indicted and Justice Department policy is not to include the name of a target that you dont indict in a case. So thats why his name wont be used. Much as we saw in muellers most recent indictment where people quickly realize that roger stone was the person referenced in a series of conversations, we might see the president in a Cameo Appearance like that in a subsequent mueller indictment. Thank you very starting us off tonight. Really appreciate it. When we come back, ivanka trump proved today that she is the only member of the white house staff who knows she absolutely cannot be fired. She said she disagreed with her fathers policy of separating children from their parents on the southern border. She did not explain why she did absolutely nothing about it. And why she hasnt visited the southern border to tell her father what is really happening to those children. And republicans continue to try to push the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court so that perhaps he will be there in time to rule on any appeal of any issue involving Robert Mueller and the president of the United States. [music playing] vo from the beginning, wells fargo has supported Community Organizations like united way, nonprofits like the american red cross, and our nations veterans. We knew helping our communities was important then. And we know its even more important today. So were stepping up to volunteer more and donate over a Million Dollars every day. So our communities can be even stronger. Its a new day at wells fargo. But its a lot like our first day. These are the specialists were proud to call our own. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com hi how was your day . It was good. It was long. Lets fix it. Play connection by onerepublic. beep these days, my waves get lost in the ocean Seven Billion swimmers man
im going through the motions sent up a flare need love and devotion trade it for some faces that ill never know notion can i get a connection . Can i get can i get a connection . Can i get a connection . Can i get can i get a connection . Is in control of the impeachment process. The trump Political Team realizes the president s lies about maybe it wasnt russia attacked our election are not working and knowing they cannot get the president to say the right thing, they decided to use Cabinet Members to do that today. The president is so worried about who will be in charge of the impeachment process, that he threw himself into a Senate Campaign in pennsylvania in which the republican challenger is pulling 15 points behind the democratic incumbent senator bob casey. And a more disturbing poll in texas tonight for republicans. Shows a statistical tie with ted cruz. On saturday the president will campaign at an ohio Congressional District that he won by 11 points and there will be a special election there on
tuesday. The democrat, danny oconnor, is in a statistical tie with the republican in that race. A democrat has not held that seat since 1980. Joining our discussion now mike murphy and jonathan alter. Both are msnbc political analysts. Mike, these numbers look like problems for republicans. What do you see when you look at them . Yeah. Its kind of winter is coming, i fear. This was an interesting trip to pennsylvania. These rallies are mostly about the president wanting love and adoration of crowds. He went there because there is a lot of history for trump. The congressman from that area who is running for senate is
behind double digits but running is an early trump supporter. And to the president s credit, that is a county where he massively overperformed. It is a place where he really spiked up. Lou wants to win that senate race. He better get out of his own district, which is only maybe 80,000 voters out of the 2. 5 million statewide and get to the philadelphia suburbs where the action is. The problem is he cant take trump there because trump cant get arrested. This was no political master stroke today. It was just the president doing his routine to an adoring crowd of republican primary voters. Im sure it made him feel good. I dont think it moved the needle at all . I tie in the senate race in texas with ted cruz as of tonight . Its unbelievable. I mean, if the democrats knock off ted cruz this year, they will be dancing in the streets. It is not clear it is going to happen. Texas has been a strongly republican state for a long time. Cruz is, you know, pretty effective at the cut and thrust of politics and he has a lot at his disposal, including a lot of money to try to take him down. But this is the kind of thing that indicates there could be a True Blue Tsunami that goes beyond retaking the house and goes down to the State Legislators and is a transformative election. I dont think were there yet. I think democrats have this habit of kind of going on miller time, you know, going, okay, we got this in the bag. You know. All the signs, mike murphy is telling us on tv winter is coming. We dont have to dig deep in our pockets. We dont have to work that hard because this thing is done. And i think that would really be to misunderstand the history of elections and misunderstand recent elections where democrats have not turned out in midterms. Thats the recent history. They dont show up. So unless that trend is changed, its not at all clear that the democrats will do as well as expected in november. Lets take a look at the president attacking the news media tonight in pennsylvania. It is a very familiar bit that we have seen at all of these rallies. Lets take a peak at tonights version. But they can make anything bad because they are the fake, fake, disgusting news. To which mike murphy tweeted today in anticipation of that very moment, my advice to media re Out Of Control Trump driven Crowd Hostility at his rallies, boycott them. Send in an ap Pool Reporter and ap pool photo. Nothing more. Take away his oxygen for a while. Mike, it makes a lot of sense. If there is a tv camera there, we will all have access to anything he says that might be
news worthy or worth putting on the air. There is not a thing he said tonight in that rally that has made it into this show in any serious way. Yeah. If he is going to act the way he acts, and id say this about any politician of any party and not make any news. He is the president. You got to cover him. But you dont got to cover him like its the dday invasion. There is no need to cover it for anything other than the pool. And trump walks into these rallies and he looks in the back and he counts how many sticks and cameras there are. If he says he won, he will know the calculus is turning. This is a Decision Point for the media to decide if they are complicit in this because they like the box office of having their Talent Arguing with trump and all this back and forth. I dont see it. Cover it with a Pool Reporter. I dont think there is any need to put on the show now that frankly the president uses to reinforce his Base Supporters where the media is very
unpopular. It is Good Box Office for trump. The question is is the media more interested in that or the journalistic side of this. Veteran of the Campaign Trail that has stood at more rallies as a reporter than any of us can count. Is there any value to sending reporters into that room . No. At this point, i think mike is absolutely right. And i think we actually could go further than that. Traditionally reporters are really competitive with each other. Yeah. But as Eleanor Roosevelt said during world war ii, this is no ordinary time, right . And i think reporters have so sort of Work Together now more and they do that when there is a
pool situation. They have to do what mike is suggesting. And if the president crosses a line in attacking somebody personally and hes done this, they have to think about whether they want to haul out of the press room and walk out. There is nothing stopping them from doing that. There is no news organization, no employer of any of the News Reporters at those events who can guarantee the safety of their personnel at those events. Thats right. Thats a real concern. Somebody is going to get hurt. You got his agreement on this, to my surprise. I thought jonathan was going to stick with his hes a friend of mine, but im going to have a nightmare tonight. Thank you both for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Thanks, lawrence. When we come back, ivanka trump said that she disagrees with her fathers policy of separating children from their parents at the southern border. But ivanka trump did not say why she has done absolutely nothing about it. Im gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ but allstate actually helps you drive safely. With drivewise. It lets you know when you go too fast. And brake too hard. With feedback to help you drive safer. Giving you the power to actually lower your cost. Unfortunately, it cant do anything about that. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . With pg e in the sierras. And im an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 Million Trees have died in california. Pg e prunes and removes over a Million Trees
every year to ensure that Hazardous Trees cant impact power lines. And since the onset of the drought weve doubled our efforts. I grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly its heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. What guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. But the White House Press secretary wouldnt dare say anything like that today. She wouldnt dare disagree with the president who says that the news media is the enemy of the people. Ivanka trump also said this today. I am very vehemently against family separation. And the separation of parents and children. Very vehemently. Not vehemently enough to resign from her job working for a president who would do such a thing. Not vehemently enough to actually go to the southern border when her father was ripping those children away from their parents and witness it all up close and report back to him on what his cruelty actually looks like. Not vehemently enough to visit the children in their cages in texas. Not vehemently enough to try to find the infant babies when no
one knew where they were, infant babies in her fathers custody. She didnt feel it vehemently enough to go down there and see how the girls were being treated to make sure that the boys and the girls were safe from abuse. She did not feel vehemently enough about it to sit in a federal courtroom in texas and watch an Immigration Judge treat Spanish Speaking threeyearolds with no lawyers as adults and bring her Eye Witness Experience of that legal atrocity back to her father to get him to stop his unspeakable cruelty to those children. Ivanka trump was not so vehemently opposed to children being ripped out of the arms of their mothers that she actually did anything about it. Ivanka trump added this personal note today. I am a daughter of an immigrant. My mother grew up in communist czech republic. But we are a country of laws. So, you know, she came to this country legally. And what if she didnt . What if ivanka trumps mother, Donald Trumps first wife violated Immigration Laws of multiple countries on her way to becoming the first mrs. Trump and the mother of a daughter who feels so vehemently opposed to ripping children out of their mothers arms at the border that he did nothing about it . Immigration reporter noticed that comment this morning by ivanka trump and raised a series of important questions about her mothers manipulation and violation of Immigration Law to get into the United States. And it is an easy story to tell because the first mrs. Trump told the story herself in her book that she published just last year. He posted the pages of ivanka trumps book in which she explains that when she was 22, she married an austrian skier
just to get an austrian passport. And in her book, she said the marriage wouldnt be real. It was only for me to get the necessary papers. That is a classic fraudulent marriage according to Immigration Law, but that marriage got ivanka trumps mother an austrian passport. She used that austrian passport to travel to canada where she lived before finally moving to the United States to mary donald trump. While she was still living in montreal, she made the twohour drive to vermont because she liked the snow there so much. The snow is dry there. The powder was so light, i could ski circles around the americans. In no time, i became a Ski Instructor and taught kids how to race. In other words, in no time
ivanka trumps mother became the kind of criminal that Ice Enforcement Agents are rounding up and deporting. She was illegally working as a Ski Instructor in the United States while living in montreal on an austrian passport. What the first mrs. Trump did to make it to the United States was completely understandable. The fake marriage, the works. He put it this way after telling the Ivanna Trump Story On Twitter today. People do what they can to get to the u. S. They fake marriages, cross borders, get by on unauthorized labor. Have children that are called Anchor Babies. Was ivanka trump an anchor baby . Were her brothers Anchor Babies . Their mother was not a citizen of the United States when they were born. The first mrs. Trump did not become a citizen until 11 years after her marriage to donald trump. Ivanka trumps mother told her story about getting into the United States in a Book Written Last Year with her daughter working in a white house that was trying to deport people like her mother when her mother was working at a ski resort in vermont. And the first mrs. Trump told that story innocently and openly just last year because she trusted that we would all understand and accept everything that she did, including every violation of law from austrian law to canadian law to american law to find a better life for herself in this country. And that is a Truly American story. It was then. And it still is now. Ivanka trump owes her very existence to her mothers dream for a better life in america. And now ivanka trump and her father are trying to crush that dream for anyone who comes to this country the way ivanka trumps mother did. Jardiance asked when it comes to managing your Type 2 Diabetes, what matters to you . You got a1c, heart, diet, and exercise. Slide Em Up Or Slide em down. So lets see. For most of you, its lower a1c. But only a few of you are thinking about your heart. Fact is, even though it helps to manage a1c, Type 2 Diabetes still increases your risk of a fatal heart attack or stroke. Jardiance is the only Type 2 Diabetes pill with a lifesaving cardiovascular benefit for adults who have Type 2 Diabetes and heart disease, significantly reducing the risk of dying from a cardiovascular event and lowering a1c, along with diet and exercise. This really changes things. Jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. This may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. Ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. Symptoms include nausea, vomiting, stomach pain,
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there. If ivanka trump did go to the southern border now and if she did go to the federal courthouse and watch these hearings, and if she did meet the children who were being held in those cages still, there are still children in her fathers custody, what would she be able to go back to the white house and tell her father. If ivanka trump as a mother and human being was truly vehemently opposed to these policies, she would be doing something about it. She would be resigning. She is an advisor in one of the most powerful Policy Offices in the entire world. If you are in my office or in that white house, if you are part of that Advisory Team and you truly are at a Breaking Point with the policy, if you are truly uncomfortable with the policy, the right thing to do is to resign. I think ivanka also needs to check her privilege because my heart obviously like everyone elses a breaking for her
reaching a low point over this summer. This has been a low point for our entire country. This has been the lowest point in the lives of thousands of children who were separated as we now know on purpose by this government, by this administration who targeted families for this cruel and torturous treatment. This is going on today. Im reporting from the border from south texas, which this issue rages forwards. There are hundreds of fathers at the Detention Center right now who were separated from their children, held for a long period of time, months without them, and who have now been joined with their children in an Internment Camp Run by a private prison company. They have been on hunger strike,
hundreds of them, with their children because they have reached that point of december there appears to be in rhyme or reason as to why some were released and many, many more are currently still being held in indefinite detention. If she were to visit the border, which i doubt she will do. She will see it is no different than it was weeks ago when our entire country was captivated by these injuries. We see it every day in our daily work. I dont know if shes ready to see it. She has prime agency in this policy. You know, she actually in the same interview today said she enjoyed getting out and traveling, going to trump
rallies and trump speeches because those are the only examples she gave in this. So this white house adviser who loves getting out of the white house and has apparently very strong feelings according to her about this policy shows no interest in traveling down to where you are and actually studying the effects of the policy. No interest in traveling here. Im sure like she had no interest in going to charlottesville and speaking with the victims of the terrorists that her fathers at administration sided with, who were attacked. We fight every day for a world where immigrants rights are respected and treated with dignity and equality. What we are seeing here is, frankly, in my opinion, more dangerous and more insidious to have an administration that is in some way being treated like a royal family where you have got one member whose lashing out and the other who is somehow trying
to button up the loose ends and act as though she is on the good side of history. Shes not. Thank you for joining us once again from texas tonight. Really appreciate it. Donald trump made a mistake apparently not listening to Mitch Mcconnell about the difficulty the Brett Kavanaugh paperwork would create in the confirmation process. Thats next. When i found out i had agerelated macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. My doctor and i came up with a plan. It includes preservision. Only Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the National Eye Institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. Thats why i fight. Because its my vision. Preservision. Also, in a greattasting chewable. Omar, check this out. Uh, yeah, i was calling to see if you do laser hair removal. For men. Notice that my hips are off the ground. [ Engine Revving ] and then, im Gonna Pike My hips back into downward dog. [ rhythmic tapping ] hey, the rain stopped. A bad day on the road still beats a good one off it. Tell me about that dental procedure again i can still taste it in my mouth progressive helps keep you out there. I can still taste it in my mouth come hok. , babe. Nasty Nighttime Heartburn . Try new alkaseltzer pm gummies. The only fast, Powerful Heartburn Relief Plus Melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. Oh, what a relief it is its so hard to believe but its all coming back me. Baby, baby, baby. All you can eat is back, baby. Applebees. The republican race to confirm a trump Supreme Court justice in time to hear any possible appeals of a trump matter involving the Special Prosecutor Hit Another Stumbling Block today. Turns out Mitch Mcconnell was right in advising President Trump not to nominate Brett Kavanaugh, warning his massive paper trail would take a long time. The grassley request is a tiny percentage of the materials the archives has involving Brett Kavanaugh. Today, Senator Grassley said the Confirmation Hearing would go forward in september even if the archives has not produced the materials that Senator Grassley said the committee needed. The george w. Bush president ial
library is turning over some documents involving Brett Kavanaugh. But those documents are being screened by attorneys for the bush president ial Library Including one who has represented steve bannon, Reince Priebus and don mcgahn in russiarelated investigations. Joyce vance is back with us. Turns out this paper trail is enormous and is not going to be in place, apparently, if time for Confirmation Hearing. It is enormous. And the problem with that is were now looking at a process where instead of using the archivist, a nonpartisan process that was really created in response to excesses during the Nixon White House to screen documents, we have a process where lawyers who represent President Bush in his personal capacity will make decisions about what gets turned over to the senate for review. It seems to be designed by republicans to deny the senate and the American Public the
information needed for this incredibly important confirmation. Whats so strange, the chairman of the committee requested the information, said the committee needs it. The archives says were not going to have it in time for your scheduled hearing and the chairman of the committee says, okay, never mind, well do it without it. Its an artificial deadline. And obviously they want the result, they want to get the justice confirmed as opposed to ensuring the integrity of the process. A really good comparison is justin kagan who had worked inside of the white house and they turned over papers both from her time in the counsels office and her work on the domestic policy council. But now well have for judge kavanaugh a process where only his work in the white house counsels office, not three years as the white house staff secretary, a job he said was tremendously important in determining his judicial
outlook. So this resultsoriented process will really deprive much of the senate the paperwork it will be reviewing. Joyce vance, thanks very much for joining us tonight. Thanks for having me. Tonights last word is next. Still a chance here. Its willingham, edge of the box, willingham shoots. Goooooooaaaaaaaallllllll that. Was. Magic. Willingham tucks it in and puts the championship to bed. Sweet dreams, nighty night. As long as Soccer Players celebrate with a slide, you can count on geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Pressure, what pressure . The players on the. Call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. Ask your doctor about anoro. Go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro. Com. Time for tonights last word. Donald trump is telling his Attorney General to shut down the investigation of donald trump. Rudy should tell him that just because hes doing it in public
doesnt mean its not obstruction of justice. Public urination is still urination. And tonights last word is thank you to our summer interns, aaron, erin, and jamie. And they all know that The 11th Hour with Brian Williams starts right now. New tonight, raging against the media. Donald trumps pennsylvania barn burner. He claims hes being riddenered hindered by the russian hoax. Meanwhile, back at the white house, the president s top intel and Law Enforcement officials show a united front and say what trump wont, that russia poses a threat to our upcoming elections. Also new tonight, Robert Mueller is looking to speak to another person with ties to that trump tower meeting. And ivanka trump, off message, on her white house low point and a break from her dad on a popular talking point. The 11th hour on a thursday night begins now
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