Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

In the democratic partys office. 12 Russian Military officers pulled off the theft this time and today, three days, before the president is scheduled to meet one on one with putin, Deputy Attorney general rosenstein made an announcement of an indictment returned by a federal grand jury in washington this morning and signed by federal prosecutor mueller. Today a grand jury in the s District Of Columbia signed an indictment. Indicting 12 Russian Military officers by name for conspiring to interfere with the 2016 president ial election. 11 of the defendants are charged with conspiring to hack into computers, steal documents and release those documents with the intent to interfere in the election. One of those defendants and a 12th Russian Military officer are charged with conspiring to infiltrate computers of organizations involved in administering election, including state boards of election, secretaries of state and companies that supply software used to administer elections. According to the allegations in the indictment, the defendants work for two units of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the russian general state known as the gru. The units engaged in active Cyber Operations to interfere in the 2016 president ial election. There was one unit that engaged in active Cyber Operations by stealing information and a different unit that was responsible for decimating the stolen information. The indictment goes into technical detail of exactly what each Russian Military officer did in this International Criminal conspiracy and how each made their stolen material public. The conspirators created fictitious online personas, including d. C. Leaks and gucifer 2. 0. They used those personas to release information, including thousands of stolen emails and other documents. Beginning in june of 2016. The defendants falsely claimed that d. C. Leaks was a group of american hackers and that gucifer 2. 0 was a lone romanian hacker. The indictment shows how the russians also used wikileaks, run by julian assange, to decimate stolen material so it would get more Media Attention that was harmful to Hillary Clintons campaign and helpful to Donald Trumps campaign. And in a stunning section of the indictment came the news that the russians also invaded state election information, including information about 500,000 voters. In a second related conspiracy, russian gru officers hacked the website of a state election board and stole information about 500,000 voters. They also hacked into computers of a company that supplied software used to verify Voter Registration information. They targeted state and local officials responsible for administering elections and they spent spearphishing emails to people involved in administering elections, including attaching malicious software. The indictment also charges the Russian Military officers with Money Laundering in order to pay for some of the online infrastructure that they used in their attack and now that the special Prosecutors Office has completed the investigation that led to this indictment, the Deputy Attorney general announced today that the prosecution of the case would be moved to the Justice Departments National Security division. And in that part of Rod Rosensteins announcement today, he made a little noticed comment that should completely change the agenda of President Trumps meeting with president putin. Assistant attorney general john de muers is here today because we intend to transition responsibility for this indictment to the National Security division while we await the apprehension of the defendants. While we await the apprehension of the defendants. President Trumps Justice Department has just indicted 12 russians for the most serious crimes against the United States that any commissions have ever committed. Tampering with the president ial election in an effort to elect donald trump. President trumps agenda in his meeting with president putin should begin and end with the demand for the immediate extradition to the United States of the 12 russians indicted today by american citizens, sitting in judgment of those 12 russians in a grand jury in washington, d. C. The American People have spoken today as represented in the action of that grand jury of american citizens. The president spoke today about what he might say to Vladimir Putin about his interference in our election. The president said this, before todays indictment was made public. I know youll ask, will we talk about meddling. I will absolutely bring that up. No, mr. President , your job is not to bring it up. You have a new job now as head of the executive branch, the branch that enforces our laws. The president s job now is to demand that the 12 russians be surrendered to the United States for trial. Joining us now, jill winebanks. David corn, Washington Bureau chief for mother jones and coauthor of the bestselling book russian roulette. They are all msnbc contributors. Jill winebanks, here we are now, this really is watergate part ii. This in a way answers a question that ive always had about what were they thinking about breaking into the dnc during watergate what did they hope to get. Well, now weve seen what they might have been able to get. If they had been successful. They got very damaging documentings that they weapon sized and used to hurt Hillary Clinton and to help elect donald trump. One difference is the people would broke in worked for the white house and the committee to reelect the president. Some were cuban exiles who had worked in the bay of pigs invasion on behalf of the u. S. This is very serious. I agree completely that the first and last thing that should be discussed in the meeting with putin, if it isnt canceled, but if it goes forward, he must fly home with the 12 indicted russians. I want to go to another element of the indictment here thats important. The indictment says that on july 27, 2016, the conspirators attempted afterhours to spe spearphish for the first time ema email accounts at a domain hosted by a Third Party Provider and used by the clintons personal office at or around the same time they targeted email addresses at the domain for clinton campaign. That came at the end of the day when donald trump said this. I will tell you this. Russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. Joyce vance, will special prosecutor Robert Mueller link donald trump at some point, link that comment, to what the russians did on that same day . You know, that has to be the question that were all asking tonight, lawrence. This is what prosecutors call a speaking indictment. It tells a narrative story instead of just reciting the elements of the statute. And, so, mueller had a lot of discretion about the language that he chose to include in this indictment, and hes very deliberately setting the stage here, making sure that none of us could miss this conduct on the 27th where he notes that russia hacked the dnc hacked clintons servers for the first time trying to get this information that trump asked them to get for him on that date. And, so, i suppose much like watergate, were back to this question of what did the president know and when did he know it . Was it just a random, lucky chance guess of a question that he asked russia to do this . Or had someone told him there was a realistic possibility . You know, Law Enforcement folks say there is no such thing as a coincidence in Law Enforcement, so i guess mueller will have more to say on this point. And david corn, of course, no sane person would openly invite russians to commit a crime but then we have been discussing exactly what the sanity level of donald trump is for the last couple of years. I think the indictment today is not just an indictment of the russians, but an indictment of donald trump and his whole crew. This shows something that we all kind of know. But david, david, let me stop you there. The white house reaction to this in their press release was nothing other than none of us had anything to do with it. Special Prosecutor Says that none of us had anything to do with it. The White House Press release on it said nothing about the outrage of what the russians were actually accused of doing and brought no objection to it whatsoever. But, david, the white house says this indictment gives us a completely clean bill. Well, of course it doesnt. Because it shows there was an attack being mounted. It is not meddling. It is an attack on the United States political system throughout the summer of 2016. While this attack was going on, even when there was evidence that it had happened, the Trump Campaign again and again denied it was happening. This is akin to aiding and abetting. Even if you are not in on the caper, you are helping them get away with it. Then we have this information today that trump made a request and the russians seemingly allegedly responded to it. And at the end of the campaign the last two months, trump, after being briefed that this attack was underway by the u. S. Intelligence in august of 2016, still publically keeps saying again and again, we dont know if its the russians. It could be this 400 pound guy. And, so, this indictment today shows without question what we knew already, this attack happened and, yet, the Trump Campaign tried to collude with russia while the attack was under way. Tried to form contacts with russia while it was under way, and denied it was happening. This is aiding and abetting and it is a little bit more important than a lot of the distractions and diversions. That the House Republicans have thrown at us. And its bad enough, you dont even need further collusion to say that trump basically made common cause with a foreign adversary as it attacked the United States. What worse can you say about a president of the United States . Jill, talk about the difference between what you would need for a criminal indictment and a criminal conviction in court and what you might put in a bill of impeachment, particularly in relation to what we just saw the president do. Candidate trump standing up there, inviting the russians to commit crime, to commit crime against our democracy, crime that they are now charged with. Donald trump publically invited them to commit that crime. Is that the kind of behavior that could find its way into a bill of impeachment . It certainly could be grounds for impeachment. Basically impeachment is any crime, high crime or misdemeanor or treason. And working with a Foreign Agent or a Foreign Government could certainly be any of those things. So it could be for impeachment. But i think it is also clear evidence of a crime. I mean, david is completely correct in saying that this is aiding and abetting the obstruction of our elections. That is a crime. And we should be looking at it. But i would say that the republicans in congress who have wasted our time yesterday in an absurd hearing attacking an fbi agent instead of looking at how they can prevent further interference in our elections. We have clear proof beyond a reasonable doubt that our elections were hacked, that state election systems were violated and that it is going to happen again in a few months. November is just months away. And congress has to harden our election systems. The states have to get active in this. We need to protect the sanctity the importance of our elections and people need to know that their vote will count as they cast it. And we need to know that the social media wont be used to change votes thinking that its from americans instead of from russians. So it is all aiding and abetting and we must get busy on this. Joyce vance, i want to get your reaction to the timing of this. Rod rosenstein said the indictment was returned this morning by a federal grand jury in washington, d. C. Did rosenstein have any discretion as to when he would make this public . Could he have delayed this announcement until tuesday after the president has met with Vladimir Putin . Well, he did. The return needed to be made once the grand jury voted. But, of course, there is timing involved. But, look, lawrence, i have worked with Rod Rosenstein for a number of years. Hes a straight arrow. My guess would be that he left description up to muellers team about when this case was ready to indict and simply reported it out at that time. He is not someone that believes prosecutors get to play loose and fast. He doesnt believe in political strategies and i think he reaffirmed that today knowing that people that are leaking information usually are not folks involved in the Justice Department and his strategy is to try the cases in the courtroom at the appropriate time. And, joyce, just one more thing. Rod rosenstein said he told the president about this beforehand the last time he could have spoken to him in person would have been monday. Based on everything you heard him say about the way he notified the president , do you believe he might have been able to do that on monday, anticipate what a grand jury could do on friday . I think so. You know, people love to say that prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich. I think that whoever simplifies. But in this case the government knew it had more than sufficient evidence for a grand jury to return a true bill and i would expect that mr. Rosenstein would have briefed the president whenever they met in return. It wouldnt have had to be just this monday. It would have been stages along the way as this case progressed. We will have to get a break in here. When we come back, john podesta will join us. He will tell us what it felt like to read todays indictment description of how the russians targeted him, went after him and got him. And some republicans started working on impeachment today. The impeachment of Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein. Seriously. vo we came here for the friends. And we got to know the friends of our friends. And we found others just like us. And just like that we felt a little less alone. But then something happened. We had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. Thats going to change. From now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. Because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer. Thats confident. But its not kayak confident. Kayak searches hundreds of travel and Airline Sites to find the best flight for me. So im more than confident. Hows your family . Kayak. Search one and done. [ coughs ] [ screams ] [ laughs ] whoa, whoa, whoa. Your one item would be the name your price tool . It helps people save on car insurance. Why wouldnt it save me . Why . What would you bring . A boat. Huh. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. The indictment was returned today because prosecutors determined that the evidence was sufficient to present these allegations to a federal grand jury. I briefed President Trump about these allegations earlier this week. The president is fully aware of the departments actions today. And that makes it all the more disturbing that this morning, already knowing that these indictments were coming, the president of the United States said this to the world. Id call it the rigged witch hunt. I think that really hurts our country, and it really hurts our relationship with russia. I think that we would have a chance to have a very Good Relationship with russia and a very good chance a very Good Relationship with president putin. I would hope so. Joining our discussion now, david rothcoff, ceo of the rothcoff group. Also joining us, david fromme, Senior Editor of the atlantic. David, it seems there is a new item on the trump putin agenda. And that is extradition. Right. Lets also remember today is the day when British Police traced the source of this nerve agent that killed a british citizen and it may be the same nerve agent that sickened two russian defectors in the united kingdom. There is a lot to discuss with the russians. We have a habit when we talk about this of just out of politeness maybe or oldfashionedness is what would a normal president say to Vladimir Putin in these circumstances. We have to also think about this, Russian Military<\/a> officers pulled off the theft this time and today, three days, before the president is scheduled to meet one on one with putin, Deputy Attorney<\/a> general rosenstein made an announcement of an indictment returned by a federal grand jury in washington this morning and signed by federal prosecutor mueller. Today a grand jury in the s District Of Columbia<\/a> signed an indictment. Indicting 12 Russian Military<\/a> officers by name for conspiring to interfere with the 2016 president ial election. 11 of the defendants are charged with conspiring to hack into computers, steal documents and release those documents with the intent to interfere in the election. One of those defendants and a 12th Russian Military<\/a> officer are charged with conspiring to infiltrate computers of organizations involved in administering election, including state boards of election, secretaries of state and companies that supply software used to administer elections. According to the allegations in the indictment, the defendants work for two units of the Main Intelligence Directorate<\/a> of the russian general state known as the gru. The units engaged in active Cyber Operations<\/a> to interfere in the 2016 president ial election. There was one unit that engaged in active Cyber Operations<\/a> by stealing information and a different unit that was responsible for decimating the stolen information. The indictment goes into technical detail of exactly what each Russian Military<\/a> officer did in this International Criminal<\/a> conspiracy and how each made their stolen material public. The conspirators created fictitious online personas, including d. C. Leaks and gucifer 2. 0. They used those personas to release information, including thousands of stolen emails and other documents. Beginning in june of 2016. The defendants falsely claimed that d. C. Leaks was a group of american hackers and that gucifer 2. 0 was a lone romanian hacker. The indictment shows how the russians also used wikileaks, run by julian assange, to decimate stolen material so it would get more Media Attention<\/a> that was harmful to Hillary Clintons<\/a> campaign and helpful to Donald Trumps<\/a> campaign. And in a stunning section of the indictment came the news that the russians also invaded state election information, including information about 500,000 voters. In a second related conspiracy, russian gru officers hacked the website of a state election board and stole information about 500,000 voters. They also hacked into computers of a company that supplied software used to verify Voter Registration<\/a> information. They targeted state and local officials responsible for administering elections and they spent spearphishing emails to people involved in administering elections, including attaching malicious software. The indictment also charges the Russian Military<\/a> officers with Money Laundering<\/a> in order to pay for some of the online infrastructure that they used in their attack and now that the special Prosecutors Office<\/a> has completed the investigation that led to this indictment, the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general announced today that the prosecution of the case would be moved to the Justice Department<\/a>s National Security<\/a> division. And in that part of Rod Rosenstein<\/a>s announcement today, he made a little noticed comment that should completely change the agenda of President Trump<\/a>s meeting with president putin. Assistant attorney general john de muers is here today because we intend to transition responsibility for this indictment to the National Security<\/a> division while we await the apprehension of the defendants. While we await the apprehension of the defendants. President Trumps Justice Department<\/a> has just indicted 12 russians for the most serious crimes against the United States<\/a> that any commissions have ever committed. Tampering with the president ial election in an effort to elect donald trump. President trumps agenda in his meeting with president putin should begin and end with the demand for the immediate extradition to the United States<\/a> of the 12 russians indicted today by american citizens, sitting in judgment of those 12 russians in a grand jury in washington, d. C. The American People<\/a> have spoken today as represented in the action of that grand jury of american citizens. The president spoke today about what he might say to Vladimir Putin<\/a> about his interference in our election. The president said this, before todays indictment was made public. I know youll ask, will we talk about meddling. I will absolutely bring that up. No, mr. President , your job is not to bring it up. You have a new job now as head of the executive branch, the branch that enforces our laws. The president s job now is to demand that the 12 russians be surrendered to the United States<\/a> for trial. Joining us now, jill winebanks. David corn, Washington Bureau<\/a> chief for mother jones and coauthor of the bestselling book russian roulette. They are all msnbc contributors. Jill winebanks, here we are now, this really is watergate part ii. This in a way answers a question that ive always had about what were they thinking about breaking into the dnc during watergate what did they hope to get. Well, now weve seen what they might have been able to get. If they had been successful. They got very damaging documentings that they weapon sized and used to hurt Hillary Clinton<\/a> and to help elect donald trump. One difference is the people would broke in worked for the white house and the committee to reelect the president. Some were cuban exiles who had worked in the bay of pigs invasion on behalf of the u. S. This is very serious. I agree completely that the first and last thing that should be discussed in the meeting with putin, if it isnt canceled, but if it goes forward, he must fly home with the 12 indicted russians. I want to go to another element of the indictment here thats important. The indictment says that on july 27, 2016, the conspirators attempted afterhours to spe spearphish for the first time ema email accounts at a domain hosted by a Third Party Provider<\/a> and used by the clintons personal office at or around the same time they targeted email addresses at the domain for clinton campaign. That came at the end of the day when donald trump said this. I will tell you this. Russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. Joyce vance, will special prosecutor Robert Mueller<\/a> link donald trump at some point, link that comment, to what the russians did on that same day . You know, that has to be the question that were all asking tonight, lawrence. This is what prosecutors call a speaking indictment. It tells a narrative story instead of just reciting the elements of the statute. And, so, mueller had a lot of discretion about the language that he chose to include in this indictment, and hes very deliberately setting the stage here, making sure that none of us could miss this conduct on the 27th where he notes that russia hacked the dnc hacked clintons servers for the first time trying to get this information that trump asked them to get for him on that date. And, so, i suppose much like watergate, were back to this question of what did the president know and when did he know it . Was it just a random, lucky chance guess of a question that he asked russia to do this . Or had someone told him there was a realistic possibility . You know, Law Enforcement<\/a> folks say there is no such thing as a coincidence in Law Enforcement<\/a>, so i guess mueller will have more to say on this point. And david corn, of course, no sane person would openly invite russians to commit a crime but then we have been discussing exactly what the sanity level of donald trump is for the last couple of years. I think the indictment today is not just an indictment of the russians, but an indictment of donald trump and his whole crew. This shows something that we all kind of know. But david, david, let me stop you there. The white house reaction to this in their press release was nothing other than none of us had anything to do with it. Special Prosecutor Says<\/a> that none of us had anything to do with it. The White House Press<\/a> release on it said nothing about the outrage of what the russians were actually accused of doing and brought no objection to it whatsoever. But, david, the white house says this indictment gives us a completely clean bill. Well, of course it doesnt. Because it shows there was an attack being mounted. It is not meddling. It is an attack on the United States<\/a> political system throughout the summer of 2016. While this attack was going on, even when there was evidence that it had happened, the Trump Campaign<\/a> again and again denied it was happening. This is akin to aiding and abetting. Even if you are not in on the caper, you are helping them get away with it. Then we have this information today that trump made a request and the russians seemingly allegedly responded to it. And at the end of the campaign the last two months, trump, after being briefed that this attack was underway by the u. S. Intelligence in august of 2016, still publically keeps saying again and again, we dont know if its the russians. It could be this 400 pound guy. And, so, this indictment today shows without question what we knew already, this attack happened and, yet, the Trump Campaign<\/a> tried to collude with russia while the attack was under way. Tried to form contacts with russia while it was under way, and denied it was happening. This is aiding and abetting and it is a little bit more important than a lot of the distractions and diversions. That the House Republicans<\/a> have thrown at us. And its bad enough, you dont even need further collusion to say that trump basically made common cause with a foreign adversary as it attacked the United States<\/a>. What worse can you say about a president of the United States<\/a> . Jill, talk about the difference between what you would need for a criminal indictment and a criminal conviction in court and what you might put in a bill of impeachment, particularly in relation to what we just saw the president do. Candidate trump standing up there, inviting the russians to commit crime, to commit crime against our democracy, crime that they are now charged with. Donald trump publically invited them to commit that crime. Is that the kind of behavior that could find its way into a bill of impeachment . It certainly could be grounds for impeachment. Basically impeachment is any crime, high crime or misdemeanor or treason. And working with a Foreign Agent<\/a> or a Foreign Government<\/a> could certainly be any of those things. So it could be for impeachment. But i think it is also clear evidence of a crime. I mean, david is completely correct in saying that this is aiding and abetting the obstruction of our elections. That is a crime. And we should be looking at it. But i would say that the republicans in congress who have wasted our time yesterday in an absurd hearing attacking an fbi agent instead of looking at how they can prevent further interference in our elections. We have clear proof beyond a reasonable doubt that our elections were hacked, that state election systems were violated and that it is going to happen again in a few months. November is just months away. And congress has to harden our election systems. The states have to get active in this. We need to protect the sanctity the importance of our elections and people need to know that their vote will count as they cast it. And we need to know that the social media wont be used to change votes thinking that its from americans instead of from russians. So it is all aiding and abetting and we must get busy on this. Joyce vance, i want to get your reaction to the timing of this. Rod rosenstein said the indictment was returned this morning by a federal grand jury in washington, d. C. Did rosenstein have any discretion as to when he would make this public . Could he have delayed this announcement until tuesday after the president has met with Vladimir Putin<\/a> . Well, he did. The return needed to be made once the grand jury voted. But, of course, there is timing involved. But, look, lawrence, i have worked with Rod Rosenstein<\/a> for a number of years. Hes a straight arrow. My guess would be that he left description up to muellers team about when this case was ready to indict and simply reported it out at that time. He is not someone that believes prosecutors get to play loose and fast. He doesnt believe in political strategies and i think he reaffirmed that today knowing that people that are leaking information usually are not folks involved in the Justice Department<\/a> and his strategy is to try the cases in the courtroom at the appropriate time. And, joyce, just one more thing. Rod rosenstein said he told the president about this beforehand the last time he could have spoken to him in person would have been monday. Based on everything you heard him say about the way he notified the president , do you believe he might have been able to do that on monday, anticipate what a grand jury could do on friday . I think so. You know, people love to say that prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich. I think that whoever simplifies. But in this case the government knew it had more than sufficient evidence for a grand jury to return a true bill and i would expect that mr. Rosenstein would have briefed the president whenever they met in return. It wouldnt have had to be just this monday. It would have been stages along the way as this case progressed. We will have to get a break in here. When we come back, john podesta will join us. He will tell us what it felt like to read todays indictment description of how the russians targeted him, went after him and got him. And some republicans started working on impeachment today. The impeachment of Deputy Attorney<\/a> general Rod Rosenstein<\/a>. Seriously. vo we came here for the friends. And we got to know the friends of our friends. And we found others just like us. And just like that we felt a little less alone. But then something happened. We had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. Thats going to change. From now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. Because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer. Thats confident. But its not kayak confident. Kayak searches hundreds of travel and Airline Sites<\/a> to find the best flight for me. So im more than confident. Hows your family . Kayak. Search one and done. [ coughs ] [ screams ] [ laughs ] whoa, whoa, whoa. Your one item would be the name your price tool . It helps people save on car insurance. Why wouldnt it save me . Why . What would you bring . A boat. Huh. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. The indictment was returned today because prosecutors determined that the evidence was sufficient to present these allegations to a federal grand jury. I briefed President Trump<\/a> about these allegations earlier this week. The president is fully aware of the departments actions today. And that makes it all the more disturbing that this morning, already knowing that these indictments were coming, the president of the United States<\/a> said this to the world. Id call it the rigged witch hunt. I think that really hurts our country, and it really hurts our relationship with russia. I think that we would have a chance to have a very Good Relationship<\/a> with russia and a very good chance a very Good Relationship<\/a> with president putin. I would hope so. Joining our discussion now, david rothcoff, ceo of the rothcoff group. Also joining us, david fromme, Senior Editor<\/a> of the atlantic. David, it seems there is a new item on the trump putin agenda. And that is extradition. Right. Lets also remember today is the day when British Police<\/a> traced the source of this nerve agent that killed a british citizen and it may be the same nerve agent that sickened two russian defectors in the united kingdom. There is a lot to discuss with the russians. We have a habit when we talk about this of just out of politeness maybe or oldfashionedness is what would a normal president say to Vladimir Putin<\/a> in these circumstances. We have to also think about this, President Trump<\/a> is not there just to speak for america. Hes there as a participant, maybe even a guilty participant. Senator john mccain said today if President Trump<\/a> is not prepared to hold putin accountable, the summit should not move forward. Of course the white house said the summit is still on absolutely. But we will possibly never know what the president says to Vladimir Putin<\/a> about this because he wants the meeting to be oneonone. We wont know. The president wants it to go on and i think its very unlikely that he will make the case he ought to make on this, pressing the russians. I think it is right to call for him not to go. But he is going to follow through. One of the problems with that is by doing the summit, hes giving something to putin. Hes saying i embrace you. I am elevating you and much the same way he did with kim. Thats a Foreign Policy<\/a> deliverable. Thats a win for putin. In the midst of this, there is this case in russia which is part of a series of cases in the midst of this ongoing case here in the United States<\/a>, the president of the United States<\/a> has chosen to embrace a man who is attacking the western alliance in a way that we have never seen it be attacked before. I want to play what Donald Trumps<\/a> director of National Intelligence<\/a> dan coats said he would say to Vladimir Putin<\/a> in a situation like this. Lets try to imagine donald trump saying anything like this. My message would be, um, we know what you are doing and we know you know what you are doing. We know you run the shop. We know youre making the decisions. You cant pass it off to, oh, thats some hacker down somewhere where we dont know. We know what you do. And, so, you make the choice. But if you want to stay in this tit for tat, were going to beat you. And, david fromme, dan coats saying that on the same day that the president of the United States<\/a> just made a game of it as if it was a tv lawyer show referring to the old perry mason show and, you know, i cant get im not going to be able to get putin to confess to anything. Well, look, dan coats is playing this pretend game where what if we had a president who was not implicated in these russian adventures, what would that president say. It is interesting to speculate. Thats not the president that the United States<\/a> has. He and Vladimir Putin<\/a> have much more in common than the president has with dan coats. And, david, there has been a lot of talk from not just john mccain, but silence from most republicans, silence from mitch mcconnell, at least he talks about the indictment. He doesnt talk about who the indictment didnt charge and paul ryan does say what the russians did was bad, but thats about it from the republican side. I think the republican side has a sense of culpability. I think some of them may see whats coming here. You know, this is not youll forgive me for comparing this. To what you were talking about in the first segment. This is not watergate. This is not a secondrate burglary. This is an ongoing attack by americas number one adversary on our democracy. Dan coats, who you referenced earlier, has been saying this attack is continuing right now. So this is a major National Security<\/a> issue. And i think, in fact, one of the reasons that this indictment came out today was that rosenstein and mueller wanted to send the message to the russians that coats was talking about, because they knew trump wouldnt send it. In other words, theyre saying, look, this is serious. We know it is serious. We are treating it like the National Security<\/a> threat that it is. And even if the president doesnt mention it, rest assured, we are going to follow up on it and we are going to press forward. I think a lot of the republicans that you talked about are afraid of how that story plays out because unlike Robert Mueller<\/a>, they are lost the plot here. They think it is political. Its not political. This is about americas National Security<\/a> and an ongoing threat that is not being addressed by this administration. David, one of the great over looked questions for which we dont actually have an answer is to President Trump<\/a>, why are you meeting with Vladimir Putin<\/a> . There has never been a white house rational for the meeting. Theres never been an agenda identified for this meeting. We understand we are accustomed to heads of state meeting with heads of state, but we dont know why this meeting is taking place and we dont know why donald trump doesnt want anyone else in the room. We dont know and we do know. A line i have been using for two years now is the trumprussia story is a story of many secrets but no mysteries. The central core of the story we have known that since the summer of 2016. Were going to have to take a break here. Thank you for joining our discussion. Up next, john podesta, the former chairman of the Hillary Clinton<\/a> campaign will join us. We will ask him what it felt like today when he read the indictments precise description of how the russians stole his email. Mines way better. This ones below market price and has bluetooth. Same here, but this one has Leather Seats<\/a> use the cars. Com app to compare price, features and value. Who says summer gets all the fun . Not us. Because southwest has 69 oneway sale fares for travel throughout september and october. So you can fill the rest of your year with amazing trips. From Football Games<\/a> to reunions, or just a break from the office. These 69 oneway sale fares are ready to make your september and october a whole lot better. Book now at southwest. Com. Low fares. No hidden fees. Thats transfarency. I we worked with pg eof to save energy because wenie. Wanted to help the school. They would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didnt cut off the light. The teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. So they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. We actually saved 50,000. And thats just one school, two semesters, three girls. Together, were building a better california. The defendants accessed email accounts of volunteers and employees of a u. S. President ial campaign, including the Campaign Chairman<\/a> starting in march of 2016. That Campaign Chairman<\/a> was john podesta. The chairman of Hillary Clintons<\/a> campaign for president. And john podesta joins our discussion now, from california. And john podesta, thank you for joining us on this really important night. I just want to read for the audience the portion of the indictment that describes how the russians attacked you and how they got to you. The indictment says that on march 19th, 2016, a Russian Military<\/a> officer and his coconspirators created and spent a spearphishing email. They used the account john 356gh at an Online Service<\/a> that abbreviated length think website addresses. Referred to as a shortening service. They used the account to mask a link contained in the spearphishing email. Which directed the recipients to a gru created website. The military officer altered the appearance of the sender email address in order to make it look like the email was a security notification from google, a technique known as spoofing, instructing the user to change his password by clicking the embedded link. Those instructions were followed. On or about march 21st, 2016, the officers and their coconspirators stole the contents of the chairmans email account, which consisted of over 50,000 emails. I cant help but wonder what it felt like today when you read that portion of the email with that line that says those instructions were followed. Do you remember that moment where you clicked on john356gh . Well, lawrence, there is a little bit more of a back story to that. But i think the general observations of this have been well known, that there was a spearphishing attempt. It involved my assistant in my office. But whats important is that at the heart of this was a conspiracy, which is laid out in this indictment. Crimes were committed by officers of russian intelligence that was done at the direction of Vladimir Putin<\/a>, as our Intelligence Community<\/a> has discerned. There were allegations of Money Laundering<\/a>, of Computer Fraud<\/a> and abuse, of conspiracy. It involved conversations with american individuals. And, you know, still we get nothing from donald trump. This was, i think, profoundly an attack on me personally and of course thats painful. But more importantly, it was an attack on americas democracy. And i you know, i grieve for the country, really. Now, you worked for two president s. You were in the white house, working for bill clinton, working for president obama. What would president obama do today about this . And especially what if president obama had a meeting scheduled with president putin on monday . What would president obama do . Well, i think once this well, first of all, i think we have to step back a bit and say that mr. Rosenstein briefed President Trump<\/a> before he left on this trip and yet he decided to go forward with this meeting with putin with no discernible agenda in front of him, an attempt to suck up to him, i guess. It is a little unclear what he intends to get out of it. But we know what president obama would have done because when he was faced with the situation where he was supposed to meet with president putin and president putin permitted the person who had hacked into the National Security<\/a> information in our country, he canceled that meeting. There have been calls for trump to go ahead and cancel the meeting with putin. I doubt hes going to do that. But more importantly, i doubt hes going to really confront president putin. You know, hes blown it off on his trip through europe. Hes compared it to perry mason. He said, you know, ill ask the question again that the press wants me to ask. But when president obama was faced with president putin admitting Edward Snowden<\/a> to russia, then president obama took the step of canceling that meeting. He took the steps of sanctioning the russians after it became known that they had interfered with our election. I dont see any of that coming from President Trump<\/a>. From the getgo in this campaign, he has tried to really to adopt the russian Foreign Policy<\/a> to dismiss what putin has done in ukraine and crimea, et cetera and now to dismiss the indictments, the guilty pleas from his National Security<\/a> advisors. So im not expecting much from President Trump<\/a>, but one can only hope hell put America First<\/a> and push forward with trying to get some resolution. Maybe a first step would be to ask putin to extradite those 12 military officials who were indicted today in the u. S. Court. Yeah. The trump Justice Department<\/a> has accused these Russian Military<\/a> officers of committing a crime against you personally, along with other people, but a specific crime against you personally. Do you believe you have a right to have your interests represented by the president of the United States<\/a> and demand extradition of those people accused of those crimes so that you can face them in a courtroom in america . I have a right, but i have low expectation that hell do it. I have to say. You know, i think, again, his course of conduct has been to dismiss this. You know, he constantly refers to an investigation thats already yielded 35 indictments as a witch hunt, and all i have to say is that the hunters are finding a lot of witches and a lot of them are connected to donald trump. John podesta, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I know it was not easy to do that. No problem, lawrence. Thanks. And when we come back, the impeachment of Rod Rosenstein<\/a>. That is what some trump extremists in the house of representatives are now trying to do. Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens brown paper packages tied up with strings these are a few of my favorite things and im still going for my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. 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Politico reports today House Freedom<\/a> caucus chairman mark meadows had the impeachment document on the floor of the house at the very moment that rosenstein spoke to reporters and tv cameras friday. Gop lawmakers have been plotting to remove rosenstein for weeks, accusing them of slow making their probe of fbi acts they have accused of bias against president donald trump. Now, do i really have to explain to mark meadows why hes never going to be able to impeach Rod Rosenstein<\/a> . Should i explain it to him . Or should i just let him keep going in his typical trump extremist way . Let him just publically and miserably fail in his mad crusade . Id love to see them try to run an impeachment hearing on Rod Rosenstein<\/a>. So, i dont know, maybe i shouldnt tell them how hopeless the whole madness is. I will decide during the commercial break whether to teach mark meadows a lesson about impeachment votes. Im a fouryearold ring bearer with a bad habit of swallowing stuff. 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Back with us, jill winebanks, david corn and david from. We are facing the house of representatives, the extremists there, the Trump Supporters<\/a> talks about the possible impeachment of Rod Rosenstein<\/a>. And, jill, im not sure they have read the constitution about the impeachment. It takes a twothirds vote in the United States<\/a> senate. Where as of tonight there are probably zero votes for the to convict Rod Rosenstein<\/a> in an impeachment trial. I think beyond the fact that there are probably zero votes, there certainly are not twothirds. But in addition, america will stand up and fight that. They will take to the streets if that happens. The investigation is not nearly over. Its clear that there are more indictments to come, and his announcement today of the current indictment stated we havent indicted americans. You could almost hear the word yet at the end of that. There is certainly more to come, and it would be completely wrong, as well as politically unachievable. And, david from, im not sure they would even get the votes in that crazy House Judiciary Committee<\/a> we watched on display the other day. But they would need a majority vote on the house floor, and i dont think they would get to a majority vote of House Republicans<\/a> on impeaching Rod Rosenstein<\/a>. What you are hearing is the doorknob rattling as trapped men try to find an exit. To date, the republicans in the house have had a Communications Strategy<\/a> for dealing with President Trump<\/a>s problems. They havent at all had a legal strategy. This is about to get very, very real, as you were saying, and there are almost certainly indictments of americans coming. And the realities of the situation are becoming harder and harder to deny. So yes you can get people revved up by talking about everything, the fbi is bad, the fbi is unfair, the fbi has opinions, but that only works until this becomes a legal matter and then becomes a legal matter, and then you need a defense, and they havent got one. And david, theres a fascinating passage in the indictment today about a candidate for u. S. Congress. It says conspirators posing as guccifer 2. 0 received a request for stolen documents for a candidate for u. S. Congress. The conspirators responded using the guccifer 2. 0 persona and sent the candidate stolen documents related to the candidates opponent. Im not sure what the timetable is for finding out who that candidate was, but there could be some republicans who want to impeach Rod Rosenstein<\/a> who might know who that candidate was. They might. And and have little bit of a different take than david and jill here and maybe you lawrence, but i think this is ridiculous and absurd, going on about fisa warrants and unmasking and trump being wiretapped by obama. I mean, their strategy just seems to be to muddy the waters. They didnt win yesterday, but they made everything look unclear and complicated and serves their base. I cant tell you how many tweets im getting a day from trumpkins saying this shows theres a deep state conspiracy against donald trump and were all part of it, by the way. I think theyre going to keep on moving. Their goal is to prevent clarity here, even when indictments like todays gives us some semblance of clarity. Lets take a look at Rod Rosenstein<\/a> at work today. This is the person who some of these House Republicans<\/a> want to see in the witness chair in an impeachment hearing in the Judiciary Committee<\/a> in the house. Here he is being asked about his response to the president calling the investigation a witch hunt, and this is no surprise this is pure professionalism at work here. Lets watch this. Number one, the timing today on the eve of the meeting with president putin can you talk about that, and also the president described the Mueller Investigation<\/a> as a witch hunt. Your response. The timing as i mentioned is a function of the collection of the facts, the evidence of the law and a determination that were sufficient to present the indictment at this time. As i mentioned i did brief the president with regard to the nature of the investigation. I can only comment on the evidence. The evidence reflects is reflected in our indictments and charges represents a determination by prosecutors and agents without regard to politics. And we believe the evidence is sufficient to justify the charges. Jill winebanks, i did not see one republican member of the House Judiciary Committee<\/a> yesterday who could win one round of questioning with Rod Rosenstein<\/a>. I agree. Yesterdays hearing was such a disgrace. It reminded me of the mccarthy hearings, which i didnt see live but have seen videos of. I was ashamed to be an american with the attack on peter struck. Theres no cause for it, and they accomplished nothing. He with stood the withering attacks on him. I think the best line of the day was im going to ask questions even though they grandmother told me if youre at a circus dont jump into the center ring unless you want to look like a clown. But he went ahead anyway and he didnt look like a clown because he was one of the people asking legitimate questions. But there was no evidence that came out yesterday. So its in stark contrast the facts and evidence presented to the American People<\/a> today in the form of this speaking indictment. Rod rosenstein tried to take the politics out of todays announcement. He said when we confront foreign interference in american elections its important for us to not think politically as republicans or democrats. What do you think is the future for Rod Rosenstein<\/a>s attempt to get the politics out of this . I think this is going to become a lot more intense. As i said before until now theres been a Communications Strategy<\/a>, by the white house, by its allies on capitol hill. But they now are going to need a legal strategy. The situation is becoming dangerous, and it is clear more indictments are coming. Simply making people excited on twitter is not going to get them much farther than they are today. David frum, david corn and jill winebanks, thanks very much for joining us on this important night. Tonights last word is next. [ drum roll ]. Emily lapier from ames, iowa. This is emilys third nomination and first win. Um. So, just. Wow um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. And of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts no, i have to say it for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. Safe driving for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. Jimmys gotten used to his whole yup, hes gone noseblind. Odors. He thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this. Luckily for all your hardtowash fabrics. Theres febreze fabric refresher. Febreze doesnt just mask, it eliminates odors youve. Gone noseblind to. And try Febreze Unstopables<\/a> for fabric. With up to twice the fresh scent power, youll want to try it. Again and again and maybe just one more time. Indulge in irresistible freshness. Febreze unstopables. Breathe happy. For tonights last word, we turn back to what i had to say very late at night last night. What about when he meets in helsinki with Vladimir Putin<\/a> . Scariest meeting in the history of the american presidency because this will he wants this meeting to be just putintrump, no one else in the room except the two translators. That makes the two translators the most valuable translators in history because they will be the only witnesses to what these guys said. After that meeting was over, if i was one of those translators, i would have someone else taste my food. For the rest of what could be your short life if youre a russian translator. We know we cant trust Donald Trumps<\/a> account of what happened in that meeting. We know we cant trust Vladimir Putin<\/a>s account of what happened in that meeting. So we really will likely never know what happened in that meeting. And the other important part of it to go back to your why, well never know why that meeting happened, why did donald trump insist that no one else be in the room. And it my chat with Stephen Colbert<\/a> is tonights last word. The russians have not given up in trying to interfere in our elections as brian will show you in the the 11th hour with Brian Williams<\/a> which starts right now. The breaking news tonight in the Mueller Investigation<\/a>, 12 russian Intelligence Officers<\/a> charged with hacking the democrats and the clinton campaign. The stunning evidence the russians deeply infiltrated our political system. From the white house, zero criticism of the russians, no condemnation of what they did. In fact, the president s private meeting with putin is still on for monday. And a wild day in london. The president apologized to the Prime Minister<\/a> for undercutting her in a recorded interview he now says is fake. And this is why the president wasnt allowed in Central London<\/a> today. Too many people in the streets protesting against him as the 11th hour gets under way on a friday night. Well, good evening once","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia801002.us.archive.org\/13\/items\/MSNBCW_20180715_000000_The_Last_Word_With_Lawrence_ODonnell\/MSNBCW_20180715_000000_The_Last_Word_With_Lawrence_ODonnell.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20180715_000000_The_Last_Word_With_Lawrence_ODonnell_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}