Happenstance . Yes, absolutely. The irony of roger stone rejecting a conspiracy theory. And so today, april 13th, 2017, was the day that america woke up to the sudden knowledge that bombs have mothers. That all of the conventional nonnuclear bombs in the American Military arsenal have one big beautiful mother. And there she is. The bombs official name for Bookkeeping Purposes in the military is the gbu43. The letters on the side of the bomb describe its function, what you can expect from it. Massive ordnance air blast. But the military doesnt want us to call it the gbu43, or the moab. Names are important to the military. They name their bases after war heroes, after general, including
generals who have committed treason by fighting in the Confederate Army against the United States of america. The biggest u. S. Military base in the world, the one with the biggest Military Population is in fort hood in texas, named after Treasonous Confederate General john bell hood. But the militarys most important names, the names that are designed to deliver a message sometimes subliminal, sometimes very direct are the names of weapons. The militarys best names for weapons humanize the weapons. That is what they are intended to do. The gbu43, the biggest nonnuclear bomb the United States has never, ever used until today, april 13th, 2017. The gbu43 had to wait years for its first use. During the Bush Administration, it replaced the blu82, which until then was our biggest bomb. The blu82 was used frequently in vietnam. The Military Ace Name for it was the daisy cutter. Not the baby killer. Not the family killer. Not the village killer. The daisy cutter. The militarys nicknames for bombs are designed to do two things. Impress you with something about the bomb. Its precision, its power, its enormity. But the best Military Names for weapons and bombs are designed to inspire awe and affection. And so the bomb that the bush and Obama Administration refused to use and has now been used by the Trump Administration is called the mother of all bombs. When the president was asked today about using that bomb for the first time in history, it sounded like he did authorize th the bomb in that instance. It sounded like perhaps he had given the general Authorization To General Mattis to use whatever weapon he decided was
right for the mission. Did you authorize it, sir . Everybody knows exactly what happened. What i do is i authorize my military. We have the greatest military in the world and they have done a great job as usual. We have given them total authorization. And thats what theyre doing. Frankly, thats why theyve been so successful lately. The president Got Glowing Review last week from most of the media in his first use of tomahawk missiles, his reviews on the use of the militarys most destructive nonnuclear bomb will have to wait until there are at lst initial reports on the number of civilian casualty, if any, and what tactical gain was achieved by the gbu43. Now to the news that donald trump cannot bomb away, the guardian is reporting that British Intelligence first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious interactions between figures connected to trump and known or suspected russian agents. This intelligence was passed to the u. S. As part of a routine exchange of information. Sources also told the paper that over the next six monday. Until summer of 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between trumps inner circle and the russians. The European Countries that passed on electronic intelligence included germany, estonia and poland. According to the guardian, the alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of Routine Surveillance of russian intelligence assets. At no point was British Intelligence carrying out an operation against donald trump or his campaign. Former Trump Campaign adviser carter page, who was the subject of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court warrant last summer said this morning that he may have discussed lifting u. S. Sanctions on russia during a trip to moscow last year. It sounds like from what youre saying its possible that you may have discussed the easing of sanction. Something may have come up in a conversation. I have no recollection. Wikileaks, i love wikileaks. Boy, that wikileaks has done a job on her, hasnt it . This wikileaks is like a treasure trove. Joining us now, Malcolm Nance, Msnbc Counterterrorism and intelligence analyst. David corn, Washington Bureau chief for mother jones and an msnbc political analyst. And david frump, senior editor. I want to talk about the massive bomb that was dropped today and your interpretation of its use and what you think it might have been able to achieve in that usage. Well, the gbu43 is really just an area destruction device. Its designed to make a big blast over pressure. A lot of earthquaking, knock down tunnel, destroy people and tunnels that are out in the field. Its just another bomb. And i think people are sort of looking over the fact that it was dropped in a combat zone. A b52 carrying 32 jdam bombs
could have caused much more devastation with much more precision. The air force wanted to use this device, and they did. David fromm, the reports today, it wasnt just the british picking up something involving trump world and the russians, estonia, poland. It sounds like there was a lot to pick up. And the polls have particularly sophisticated intelligence service, and have been very interested in the ukraine case. Poland and ukraine are neighbors with deep histical relaonships. Poland contains many more consulates in ukraine than the United States does and it knows a lot about the career of paul manafort. That name would ring some very noisy alarm bells in warsaw. David corn, the way the we just heard the cia director talk about wikileaks compared to the way the president has talked about wikileaks. Its another one of those
congressional i dont know. Thats crazy talk. But nevertheless, it is so absurd, you know, because at the same time donald trump still says this is all a hoax. Malcolm nance, you have literally written the book about this, about the russian influence in this election and what they were up to. Just give us your assessment about the last 24 hours of new informatio well, im afraid to say this is what separates Intelligence Officers from journalists, you know. I wrote this almost seven months ago now. That if you were ever going to get a scoop with relation to information coming out about the Trump Administrations activities related to foreign intelligence, it was going to come from a foreign intelligence agency. Pretty sure that i said estonia would be the first one. Because as we learned, they have very close ties with the United States and other allied nations. And theyre very, very good at
certain types of special intelligence. Thats what we call signals intelligence. And our sister gchq and dgsc in france, they have a vested interest in knowing what is going on there. On the other hand, it was very surprising to finally hear mike pompeo come out and declare wikileaks a nonstate hostile intelligence agency. I wrote a whole chapter in my book about how wikileaks was nonstate Intelligence Company and a subsidiary of the fsb. That being said, its going to be fascinating for anyone who has now been found to cooperate with wikileaks. Because this is essentially him verbalizing in an unclassified setting an Intelligence Finding that they were in league, not only with russian intelligence perhaps by extension, but now a designated nonstate hostile intelligence agency. Its going to make for some very, very interesting congressional investigations and trials. There. Are people in the trump
tillerson admitted it. Nikki haley admitted it. Mike pompeo said it today. While roger stone is out there pushing Conspiracy Theorys on this network and others. So can they kind of act as if theyre legitimate, even when theyre working for a fellow who denies the original sin of this administration and still continues to say things that make no sense . I think the answer to that, david, would be from a moral point of view, maybe not. From a practical point of view, everybody has to be less fussy. Malcolm nance, isnt it a question of what are they saying from this point forward . When you look at What Tillerson was saying the week before the Chemical Attack in syria, he seemed like he hadnt even found his way around the office yet and didnt have the vaguest idea what a reasonable Talking Point sounded like on syria, saying he was going to leave it to, what,
haley as u. N. Ambassador has been far ahead of even mcmaster and mattis. And the strength of her statements about russia and syria. And so now it appears that its coming together at least on these two points, even though as i contend, the attack on syria was a complete wash. We didnt destroy anything. We didnt destroy chemical weapons. We just showed that we knew how to turn the key and launch cruise missiles. So i think that the white house in some respects is coming together. And if these threats and statements about north korea are true, as were going to talk about a little later, they had better get their acts together. Because this is the sort of talk that will bring this nation into war or to a crisis that will, you know, resemble the paces to war. David, when you talk about hemming in a president , that has been done in the past in a more subtle way. Just the advisers would basically the experts in the areas of defense or whatever it was would present a set of possibilities. Only one of which looked possible and the others just werent. And so that was always the traditional way if the advisers were trying to hem in the president. Well, it is a more extreme way, which youll rember from the history, James Schlesinger in the last days of watergate telling the Nuclear Command by the way, im putting myself as Secretary Of Defense into the Nuclear Command. If you get any funny orders from the president , just run them past me. This was when president nixon was up drunk late at night in the white house. Taking pills. And approaching the point of being forced to resign. His said dont take any nuclear orders from him in the middle of the night. Right. Unless you cleared them with me. So president s can be hemmed in. The question, how many weeks did that occur over . Relatively short period of time. Can you do it over four years . Probably not. In the end, the president fires a all of these people. And one of the things that Donald Trumps displayed is, and he has done it now to his white
house staff, steve bannon and others, he doesnt like it when anyone near him gets too big. And right now mattis is very big, and tillerson is getting bigger, and nikki haley in particular is getting very big. How will the president feel about that tomorrow, next week, the week after that. David corn, isnt that a matter of how Saturday Night Live treats it . If Saturday Night Live says nikki haley is the brains of the Trump White House, thats when the clock starts ticking . I would amend davids astute observation. Its not how people around donald trump getting big. Its how its portrayed and perceived. And because thats really how he views the world. He views the world and how the world is viewing him. The Reality Doesnt Matter as much. And if we talk about hemming in and mcmasters getting his hands around the National Security council and mattis, we see it only takes trump seven seconds to Say Something or even less seconds to tweet something about north korea or Something Else that can be incredibly destabilizing. So you can hem in a guy to a certain degree. But when he is up at 6 00 in the morning, i dont think mattis or mcmasters or even his wife are looking over his shoulders. So there still is a lot of instability there. Should nbc have some kind of corporate ethics officer in the Saturday Night LiveWritings Room saying please dont say anything about nikki haley overnight. No, no corporate interference there. But maybe for the sake of the country they should. We dont want those jokes. Theyre all patriots at snl. Theyre all patriots. Thats right. Theyre right upstairs. David frum, a pleasure. Coming up, nbc news Exclusive Reporting that the Trump White House has a plan for a presumptive strike on north korea. And the democratic candidate in georgia in that special election for a house seat has a huge lead in the polls. Thats a seat that has been republican for 38 years. That candidate is going to join us later. I didnt really know anything about my family history. Went to ancestry, i put in the names of my grandparents first. I got a leaf right away. A leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. I learned that my ten times great grandmother is George Washingtons aunt. Within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, im related to george washington. This is my cousin george. Discover your story. Start searching for free now at ancestry. Com
the last few days weve seen a number of shifts by the american president. What should the American People make of the shifts . I think you can look at it what youre referring to as a shift in a lot of ways. If you look at whats happened, its those entities the or individuals in some cases are issues evolving towards the president s position. [bullfighting music]
really another successful job. Were very, very proud of our military. Just like were proud of the folks in this room. We are so proud of our military. And it was another successful event. Joining us now, the former ambassador to the african union. And Deputy AssistantSecretary Of State for african affairs. Back with us, david corn. Ambassador, i want to get your reaction to the bomb today. You studied the aftermath of bombings, especially as it affects the Civilian Casualties and other unintended consequences. What do you expect to find when we finally see the results of this bomb . Well, lawrence, the first question is what was the target and why was the target necessary to be attacked with this particular weapon. And then the second question is what was the calculus that the military made with the regard to the potential impact of civilians in that area. The gbu43, the socalled mother of all bombs is an 11ton weapon that has Blast Effects that go well beyond a mile. And its frankly hard to imagine a circumstance on which you could drop a weapon like that without having any consequences whatsoever on civilians. So im very interested in asking the questions about what exactly was the target, and how did the military make the calculation that attacking that target would be worth whatever potential impact it would be on civilians. And ambassador, do you sense that in the decision to use this particular bomb, that there was an intent to deliver a message with it that this bomb delivers because Malcolm Nance has mentioned in the previous segment that you could have done the same destructive work with other devices. Well, there certainly could be some sort of signaling or psychological impact on what the use of that weapon. Although what would expect that that desired effect would have been taken into decision, if that were the case works have
been taken at a higher level. Could be there were particular aspects about the contours of the target that were being attacked. But thats the problem. We dont know. For the unprecedented use of a weapon like this, there are certainly more questions than answers. And as they say, asking the question what exactly was a target that justified this kind of weapon is something i think we simply need to have a responsible. Lets listen to what Secretary Of Defense rumsfeld said when this bomb was first being brought online for the military and first being tested, he was asked about this new bomb. Lets listen to this. Is there a psychological component to this massive new bomb . There. Is a psychological component to all aspects of warfare. The goal is to not have a war. The goal is to have the pressure be so great that Saddam Hussein cooperates. Short of that, an unwillingness to cooperate, the goal is to have the capabilities of the coalition so clear and so
obvious that there is an enormous disincentive for the Iraqi Military to fight against