And i dont know how to buy a share of exxon. Well, yeah. If the secretary of states still got them when he gets sworn in, i cant tell you whats going happen to those shares. Only in trump world. Thank you, rachel. So donald trump, the champion of American Workers is now tonight attacking American Workers. He is blaming the workers at the carrier plant in indiana for carriers decision to move their jobs to mexico. And tonight donald trump attacked those Workers Union leader chuck jones. Chuck jones will be our first guest. Person of the year is a tremendous honor. Well, the decision is not made as an honor. The person of the year is the one who has had the most influence over events of the year for better or worse. Divided states of america. I didnt divide them. Theyre divided now. Im counting on president elect trump to tamp down on this bitterness. Can we agree, president elect trump, that at this stage it would be better for you to simply stop watching snl . I like alec. But his imitation of me is really meanspirit and not very good. He is a very forgiving, very magnanimous kind of a guy. Is he a bona fide republican . Were just different people circumstances he a republican . You see through tweets he can affect industry. He affected the stock market and he did it twice. When he is tweeting about boeing and good companies, he is actually trying the say who is in charge right now. I think i am very restrained. You are looking and acting as if you are mean and petty, thinskinned and vindictive. Stop this. Donald trump, who last week presented himself as the hero of the workers at a carrier plant in indiana is now attacking those very same workers, and blaming them for carrier moving their jobs to mexico. Donald trump has congratulated himself repeatedly for saving over a thousand jobs at carrier from moving to mexico. He praised carrier for not moving those jobs to mexico, even though carrier told donald trump they still intend to move 1300 jobs at least to mexico. So in that trump deal, more jobs would be sent to mexico than kept in indiana. Yesterday chuck jones, the president of the united Steel Workers local that represents the carrier workers said that donald trump, quote, lied his ass off about the number of jobs saved. Here is donald trump lying his ass off. United technologies and carrier stepped it up. And now theyre keeping actually the number is over 1100 people, which is so great. Chuck jones says that carrier has informed them that the actual number of jobs that will remain is 730 jobs. Chuck jones made that point on cnn earlier tonight. And minutes after he said it, donald trump tweeted this. Chuck jones, who is president of the united steelworkers 1999 has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country. Joining us now is chuck jones, president of the united steelworkers local 1999 union. Chuck jones, what is your reaction to Donald Trumps tweet about your comments tonight . You know, coming from a man that has fought real hard to try to keep people from organizing unions in his hotels and casinos, i guess i would take it as a thank you or indicative of we must be doing a pretty good job representing our people to provide them with good wages and good benefits. So, you know, short of that, you know, i dont put a lot of credence what he said. The only thing i was trying to do was correct him on some of the misstatements he made. And what he said was save 1100 jobs. That was a falsehood. And a lot of our people, when president elect trump said that earlier in the week before we knew what the exact numbers was last week had got their hopes up that they were going to keep a job, when in all reality, and we found out last thursday at noon that there was going to be 730 jobs remaining. Another 70 supervisory clerical. But he was wanting to count in the 350 research and Development Jobs that the company when they made the announcement in february were staying here in the city anyway. So our people got false hopes because the company wouldnt come out with the numbers of who was staying, who was going. So a lot of our people that thought they had lost their job thought they was going to have a job. In all reality, like i said, 730 staying. And here in indianapolis 550 are losing their livelihood. Another tweet he tweeted a little bit later tonight was directed towards you. He said if united steelworkers 1999 was any good. That would have kept those jobs in indiana. Spend more time working, less time talking, reduce dues. Now there he is in that tweet, very clearly blaming you, blaming the workers, the unionized workers for carrier sending these jobs to mexico. Now when he was campaigning for president , he blamed carrier completely. He never said that he blamed the union. He never said that he blamed the workers. If he had said in indiana that he blamed the workers at carrier for those jobs being sent to mexico, would he have gotten support and votes from workers at carrier and members of your union . Im going assume that some of them would have thought twice before they would have voted for mr. Trump. And probably wouldnt have vote for it. The whole thing is ridiculous. He takes exception to being corrected. And on my numbers im correct and he is wrong. On the promises that he made to the Campaign Circuit to the American People about carrier, he is saying he didnt say. So he is wrong on that. He stood up last thursday and told falsehoods. And thats what i was calling him out on. Now i appreciate him very much for getting involved and saving 800 jobs that is going to remain here, countless the salary people. Without his input, that probably wouldnt have got done. So i appreciate it, and i made it perfectly clear on every interview ive done that i appreciate that. Now he wants to turn around. He wants to slam me. So, you know, im not bothered by it by no means. And im not backing up on my position. He is wrong and im right and well move on. And if he wants to keep on tweeting, ill keep on responding. Well, and he is not just blaming you. He is blaming the workers and all the unionized workers there. Yes. He is saying if those workers, if the united steelworkers were any good, they would have kept those jobs in indiana. Now the way you wou have kept those jobs in indiana would be to cut the wages. Yes. When donald trump was trying to keep those jobs in indiana, did he ever call up the steelWorkers Union and say please cut your wages. Please give back money to the company. Stop taking such high wages from this company so that your jobs can stay there. Or did he just negotiate with the company and didnt negotiate with the workers at all . He just negotiated with the company. And in fact, what we did when we sit down with the company, when the announcement was made to try to save the jobs, 23 million a year in concessions was offered up to the company. That was they costed everything. Said 23 million. They said you cant come close to the 65 million they were saving. So it was a nice effort. But you cant do it. Now in order to achieve the 65 million, all your people would have to work for 5 an hour, which is below minimum wage, which is against the law, and they would have no benefits, no insurance, no health care, no nothing. So were moving to monterrey, mexico. It doesnt the fact that we didnt spent a lot of time and effort to see what we could do to save this place. I dont know if he realizes or i really dont care if he does or not. But thats the truth of the matter. There is donald trump tonight, blaming the workers because you wouldnt take 5 an hour, which you couldnt, even if somebody decided they wanted to since it would be below minimum wage. There had been some news reports tonight that since you went public on this, you have received threats from trump supporters. What can you tell us than . Better keep an eye on your kids. We know what type of car you drive, things along those lines. But ive been doing this job for 30 years. You know, ive heard inch from people wanting to burn my house down, shoot me, and everything else. So, you know, i they can with a grain of salt you know. I dont put a lot of faith in that. And im not concerned about it. Im not getting anybody involved, the authorities. Nothing i can deal with. People that, you know, make stupid statements and ill move on. I just want to go back to that moment when donald trump is out at the plant in indiana at carrier. We think of all the things he said. We all watched what he had to say out there. And im just wondering, if somewhere in the middle of everything he had to say, he had said if the united steelworkers was any good. That would have kept those jobs in indiana. If he had said that, would he have gotten applause from that audience he was speaking to . I dont think as much, you know. And, you know, to go back to his statements, when he was given those strjatements, the people sitting in that room did not know. Because we had just seen some hours before from that company what the breakdown of who was keeping their jobs. He got up there and said numerous times that we have kept over 1100 jobs here at carrier. Well, i would think the average person in the room that didnt know the breakdown thought that they was talking about manufacturing jobs. They was talk about their jobs. And they didnt mention, well, we are moving 550 jobs to monterrey, mexico. Now also here in indiana, were losing and its not one of our units. Its iew. 700 utc jobs. Now the taxpayers of indiana anted up 7 million over ten years. Im not the best maybe math major by no means. But company was saving 65 million a year by moving all the jobs except the r d people to monterrey, mexico. Theyve got 5 billion with a b in military contracts. Nobody is going to maybe admit to it. If i were mr. Trump, i would have felt i had some pretty good leverage on utc. But they created that i talked to the company and they recreated and the state of indiana offered up 7 million over ten years. Thats a drop in the bucket. But itstill taxpayers money here in the state of indiana that went to a very profitable company. And were hearing a lot of feedback on that. Chuck jones, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. Lawrence, thank you very much for having me. Thank you. Were joined now by david corn, Washington Bureau chief for mother jones, msnbc political analyst, and annemarie cox, political corresponnt for mtv news. And annemarie, these tweets tonight, im just imagining donald trump saying these very same things when he was in the factory with those workers at carrier, its all your fault, workers. Thats why these jobs are being moved to mexico. Well, you know, im really stuck on something that chuck said about what he did say in that room, wch is that he lied to the workers faces. He did more than insult to them. He gave them the impression that their jobs were being saved, and they werent. There are people who thought in that moment, applauded for trump in that moment because they thought he had saved their jobs. And he didnt. And that is, you know, a monstrous lie. I, you know this comes a little bit too late, right . There are tse of us who knew he was a liar before this. I feel i wonder about what those workers feel today. I wonder if theyre the first round of people that were going to see regretting their votes for trump. I do think that this is something that i know weve talked about, which is that that middle class and lower middle class white voters that voted for trump, they are going to be some of the people hurt the most by his policies. I mean, there are a lot of vulnerable groups that are going to be hurt. But these people, these are some of the people that are going to be hurt the most when he finally gets in office. He managed to hurt them before he got into office too. Lied about that. David corn, donald trump ran as wed never seen a republican run before as the champion of the working american. And he is going to save the jobs. And against all the trade policies that republicans have been in favor of. And it only took it only took a fact correction by chuck jones. It only took one fact correction by a union leader for donald trump to become pure republican. And now jobs moving to mexico are entirely the fault of the workers themselves. Can you imagine what would have happened tonight if alec baldwin had tweeted out that donald trump had lied about the carrier deal . I mean, i dont know if we could go on after that. I dont know if donald trump could go on after that. I loved it when chuck jones said, you know, if he keeps on tweeting, ill keep on responding. Now thats the modern day union spirit, you know. Fight, fight, fight. Organize, organize, organize. Here you have a guy, donald trump, who lives literally in a gold plated apartment now blaming the people that he claimed to be a champion of while pushing through corporate socialism, which republicans always said they were against. Carrier is getting 7 million in these tax credits from indiana while its already saving 65 million or it will be less now moving these jobs overseas. Its been used a lot of that money, those savings to automate its factories here in the United States. And im betting ten years down the road when its still getting those tax credits, those jobs, even if they stay here will no longer exist. So this is really not about helping workers in the long run. Its not about having a coherent Economic Policy that will help anyone else other than these workers. And on top of it, donald trump is lying. Its like a trifecta of trumpianism. Were joined now by phone by leo gerard. He is the International President of the united steelWorkers Union. He is also Vice President of the aflcio. And leo gerard, im going to read for you these two donald trump tweets. Because i know youve been traveling and you grabbed a soon for us as soon as you could. He tweeted tonight after chuck jones made some Public Comments about the correct number of jobs that were being kept at carrier. He said chuck jones who is president of the united steelworkers 1999 has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee the country. And then his second tweet was if united steelworkers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in indiana. Spend more time working, less time talking. Reduce duce. Dues. There he is saying look at what these workers are doing. No wonder companies flee the country. Thats a complete blaming of the worker for this situation. Well, thanks, lawrence, for getting me a chance to at least be on the phone. I guess my First Response is really one of sadness. Now ill say more. But weve got someone who is just about to become the president of the United States. Most important job on the planet. And he is busy tweeting about a local Union President who is in fact a hero. Chuck jones is someone who is standing up, fighting for his members, refused to accept that carrier was just going to get to walk away. He and his membership in our district director made this a national issue. Every time a politician wanted to talk about the economy, chuck jones and his local talked about what about carrier moving to mexico for 6 an hour and telling us to our face in a warehouse nothing personal, were going because we can make more money. And chuck and his people stood up to that. And now because we have a president who clarified the facts, the president of the United States decided that he should call them names. Im terribly disappointed, and im also angry. Look, the fact of the matter is that our union offered carrier, what would it take to keep you here. And they said there is nothing you can do that would keep us here unless you want to work for under 5. An hour. But chuck wouldnt accept that, and his members wouldnt accept that, and they kept making an issue of it. I want to say we wrote a letter to the president elect not long after the election telling him that we were prepared to work with him to repeal and replace nafta, to repeal and replace pnpr, to negotiate a fair trade standard, to help him with infrastructure, to help him grow jobs and raise wages. We havent had a response to that letter yet. So im really one of the people that think chuck jones is a hero. He stood up for his members. And for the president elect to get so upset because chuck was simply tear fight. Meay this. I know from my dialogue with our membership and with chucks local in particular, that when people heard that 1100 jobs were going to be saved, they were enthusiastic that that could be their job, only to find out later that the fact wasnt 1100 jobs, it was 730. So they went on a high thinking they have a future. Th they got slammed back down. And it was in chucks class, a man with tremendous class in his membership said hang on, im going to clarify it. And hi went to get Additional Information and found it was only 730 jobs. So i think chuck jones is a hero and one who has fought for his members very well. It seems that donald trump has a lot to learn about the way unions work. Especially in this second tweet. And its always its always interesting to take apart Donald Trumps words, because frequently they have no meaning, or theyre completely filled or filled with ignorance. And in this tweet where he says if the union was any good. That would have kept those jobs in indiana. Clearly blaming the union and the workers. And then he tells the workers and the union to do this. He said spend more time working. He wants people to spend more time working at this plant. Apparently he thinks theyre not working, not working enough. And then he says reduce dues. Now explain to donald trump what dues, union dues have to do with whether carrier keeps jobs in indiana. They have nothing to do with whether carrier keeps jobs in indiana. In fact, our union dues are a little over not quite 1. 5 . So theyre minimal to carriers operation and to the work we do. And again, i want to go back to what carrier said at the time when they made the initial announcement. They said that it had nothing to do with e quality of their work. And this was a high quality, efficient, well run facility. What it had to do with is they were going to mexico because they could do it for 6 an hour. There is no worker in america who could work for 6 an hour. Its in fact lower than the minimum wage. Even if you didnt do it in pesos, but you did it in dollars. So to make that comment is really an insult to the workers who are making a quality product. One of the things that amazed me for a long time about this was that the president elect and others on