Lowman. A judge found probable cause that he could face charges. At the end of the day he was still a 18yearold kid. New clues and fresh scene. The search extended in to vermont and lake champlain. Now causing in on murderers david sweat and richard matt. Six days since they got out. The u. S. Relationship with europe is hugely important. Hes touring europe. Thats right. The countries picked are vital. Hes telling europeans i like you because you are comfortable with having the same family in charge for centuries. Jeb bush hasnt announced he is running yet but the Washington Post said his campaign ran off course before it even began. Poland is a long ways from aai and that may leave jeb bush feeling better tonight. He has not declared he is running but testing out his look on the European Tour and on the campaign trail back home. He is trailing everyone from scott walker to ben carson in the current iowa polls. That may be why the front runner is planning a more aggressive attack. That according to a new Washington Post report. When you get down to it running for president boils down to four challenges media, retail politicking, Campaign Management itself and that whole acting president ial thing showing you can credibly step in to the oval office on day one. Jebs press tour, so far, has been rocky. Knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion . I would have. You would . How did you blow that . Jeb for real considering your last name how are you not running from questions about iraq. Pretty fair and took four more days for him to get a final answer ready . I would have not engaged, i would not have gone in to iraq. Say with clarity what you believe, and if you make a mistake clean it up quicker rather than later. It took him, what three tries before he finally got it right. Thats the kind of thing you cant afford in a president ial campaign. Those are the conservative commentators. Bushs president ial foreign tour left him looking off guard with the press and juggling his meetings with foreign leaders about his new Campaign Shakeup this week. Governor, can you say why you replace ed your Campaign Manager . Tomorrow when we have the press was something not working properly . No everything is great. Just on the move there. Heres what he said at the press availability today. To be clear here we dont have an organization for a campaign for president until he candidate announces. So i would discount a little of these things until i look in to a camera and say im a candidate. So hopefully that will be coming soon if its to come. But im im excited about the team that is working with. Thats coming soon if it is coming at all if you can follow that. Many politicos have asked why are there so many republicans running for president right now, 16 by some counts . Maybe because many republicans know what jeb bush apparently does not leading the pac in fundraising doesnt make you the front runner and the eu it is wide open. The new editor in chief for cafe. Com launching this fall and mother jones david corn who is an msnbc political analyst. Good evening, everyone. What is job with jeb bushs pseudo noncandidacy at this point . When you have people those press availabilities laughing in your face thats an issue right there. A lot of people discounted the fact that jeb bush has not run a campaign in a long time since he was governor in the early auts in florida and the way the media and Campaign Life has changed in the last decade you have to be on top of your game. I was talking to one bush loyalist who said, listen, the guy keeps blowing it every time he talks about an important issue, whether it is common core immigration or the war in iraq and doesnt seem to have the touch and raising a lot of money, which he is do ing, maybe not as much as he said is not scaring anybody off these days because all anyone has to do in post Citizens United world is to get their own billionaire and there are enough to go around. One might join the race. He hasnt scared anybody off. He hasnt performed in a way to impress anyone. I can only imagine what barbara bush is saying these things. We could put i her on the list of conservative critics if she would speak publicly and barbara, you are welcome on the last word if you are watching with. I know shes a regular viewer. Laura ingram in the Washington Post, says the bushes have always under estimated the depth of the bases dissatisfaction with their policies and take criticism personally. Jeb has to understand why conservatives have problems with him instead of crowing how principled he is. I thought this was interesting. Regardless of where you come down on is he a good candidate and would he be good for america, i think it is fair to say objectively, he doesnt seem to think he has to earn it from the base. He wants a level of deference that i dont know that voters are giving him right now. I think you are right. Looking back the amount of presumption, right im going to come in. Im going to steer this party. Im going to take it by the neck. Im go to drag it to where it should be on education and immigration. I havent been in office for ten years. I sat out the tea party. To come and say i am going to do those things without having this organic tie and say the mechanism is to raise the most money and take the oxygen out of the room can you imagine the fury and resentment that must cause in some precincts of his own party, a lot. In a period where the Republican Party whether you buy it or not, has certainly put an emphasis on grassroots organizing and antiwashington, right . He has that challenge. I want to play a little from the right to rise pac, a video they made that calls him the undisputed jobs champ and im going to guess they are not spending the money on the videos. Must be spending it on something else. It struck me as weak, con clusry, trust us he is good at jobs. Take a look. 1. 3 million net new jobs were created, more than texas during thaez those eight years we have young, aspirational for the young people in this crowd to get a job with purpose and meaning. The Jeb Bush Super imposed and jobs but it doesnt make much more of an argument. We havent mentioned the big bathroom painting elephant in the room which is george w. Bushs brother, which is a liability. If you were to look at the problems hes had, many parts of the campaign whether the megyn kelly question about iraq or someone at an event asking about isis and invoking the brother. What you sea overseas is of course you want your candidate to pass the commander in chief test. You want them to show they are well versed in Foreign Policy. In particular this candidate needs to show theres distance between him and his brother and he has his own Foreign Policy and the trip so far overseas, they went to Eastern Europe germany, not many places they can go overseas where the bush name is so good with the cold war ending when he was in europe he said you may associate with me with one bush my brother, there is another bush that used to love my dad. Please think of me as that bush family. That seems to be making go ahead, david. That seems to be making lemonade out of lemons. Picking up on something nick said earlier. Its hard to figure out what jeb bush, i almost said george bush what jeb bushs theory of the case is. The Republican Base has really moved very far to the right. It seems they are still venting about obama and they want somebody who sant bipartisan, social moderate who cares about education policy. They want somebody whos going to come in there and slap obama around or the democrats, even if balm is no longer there. I dont think this Tea Party Fever has yet burnt out f. You look at everything that bush has done to date it shows he doesnt really seem to believe that or realize that. And hes put in charge his new Campaign Manager is a guy whos very good at response reaction. So it is about incoming. Its not about what bush is saying on the outgoing. Like with being attack we dont know what to do put in a specialist by reacting. Nothing pro active about what he is doing to penetrate and capture his own party. David, you are putting your finger on where this thing is going, which is he like his brother and perhaps unlike george bush sr. Who did fight the so called wimp factor as the magazines put it at the time, and you have written about this, david, jeb does go tough. I want to play an exchange he had with tim russert about an ad that was widely decried about being misleading. Lets play that old clip. Why do you continue to air the commercial that is by your own admission misleading. First of all, the commercial is no longer aired. I would have kept it on long er but it was on about a week and that was enough. Im not attacking governor childs character. I do believe he has been a liberal on crime and soft on crime. David, from what you have been reporting, you expect him to be tough on other candidates as they make this new shift. It is interesting because the Washington Post piece today said they were going to start to attack more. That was an attack on a democrat who he accused basically of not executing a guy who murdered and found guilty of murdering a 10yearold girl when the governor at the time the fella he was running against had nothing to do with the date of execution. He made up this argument and had to acknowledge later it was wrong and misleading. He seems to have the capacity to go sharp on the attack and it will be interesting to see how he does that within the republican primary where republicans will invoke Ronald Reagans 11th commandment thou shall not attack. David corn blake seth and nick, thank you for joining us. Coming up a judge siding with the family of 12yearold tamir rice. Agreeing the officer implicated in the video you are seeing there should face charges. It doesnt mean the officers will face a trial. We will explain that with reporting. And the latest on the maunlt for the escaped fugitives and what we know about the woman who never showed up with that getaway car. Re thanks to experian. Com. Kaboom. Get your credit swagger on. Become a member of experian credit tracker and find out your fico score powered by experian. Hey pal . You ready . Can you pick me up at 6 30 . Ah. boy im here im here cop too late. I was gone for five minutes ugh move it. Youre killing me. You know what, dad . Im good. dad it may be quite a while before hes ready, but our Subaru Legacy will be waiting for him. vo the longestlasting midsize sedan in its class. The twentyfifteen Subaru Legacy. Its not just a sedan. Its a subaru. Put your hand over your heart. Is it beating . Good then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. Its a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. Planters. Nutrition starts with nut. United states and you are thinking about joining al qaeda or isil anyone thinking about that . Im not going to call a judge. Im going to call a drone and we will kill you. There you have it. So how would you like to go skeet shooting with Lindsey Graham . If you have a lot of money to give to republicans who want to run for president , you can go skeet shooting with him personally. This weekend mitt romney is hosting a summit of candidates and big donors are gathering in deer valley, utah. Pretty place. Six candidates thereby there along with john kasich. According to the New York Times donors have all kinds of options for fun here, flag football with marco rubio, horseback riding Early Morning hikes with the romney clan and skeet shooting with Lindsey Graham. As we always say around here the more you know. Up next what the judges decision in that tamir rice case actually means for a potential trial for the officers implicated. Thats next. We all enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop. So cvs health is creating industryleading programs and tools that help people stay on medicines as their doctors prescribed. It could help save tens of thousands of lives every year. And that would be something worth shouting about. Cvs health, because health is everything. Song Rachel Platten fight song two million, four hundred thirtyfour thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. And only one me. Ill take those odds. Be unstoppable. The allnew 2015 ford edge. Breaking news this the case of tamir rice. The 12yearold boy killed by Cleveland Police six month s ago. It has drawn calls for an independent investigation. The local Sheriffs Department has been conducting its own investigation and gave findings to a prosecutor last week but no charges have been filed yet there. Late today, however, a cleveland judge ruled there is cause to charge two officers in rices death. Judge ronald adron captured what many people have felt watching the footage. He writes in this new opinion that the video is notorious and hard to watch. After viewing it several times, im still thunder struck by how quickly this event turned deadly them judge found there is probable cause to charge one officer with murder and the other with negligent homicide and noted how quickly the officers arrived and killed rice saying they left virtually no time quote, for rice to react or respond to verbal or audible commands between the time Police Arrived and the time rice was shot. Literally the judge writes the entire encounter is over in an instant. The judges order is unusual. Ohio law allows citizens to petition a judge directly to address certain crimes. As a legal matter only the prosecutor can bring charges them prosecutor responded with a statement emphasizing the role of the grand jury saying quote, ultimately the grand jury decides whether Police Officers are charged or not charged. Joining us on this developing story from our ohio state senator turner and the first black woman appointed to the bench in Northern California and Police Auditor for the city of san jose. Good evening to both of you. Nina i want to talk to you. We have spoken about these issues many times. This is unusual and not legally binding, but what do you make of what the judge found and what it means for potential further action in this case . As you highlighted in your opening, the judges ruling and his remarks, based on his ruling really gives voice to the citizens and what citizens are feeling in the city of cleveland and across the country. When he talked about how less than two seconds, you know young tamir rice was gunned down and he never had a chance he didnt have a chance whatsoever to even give up and how gut wrenching that is. The fact he was a 12yearold boy on a playground just playing like any child would play that he never had a chance. The judge really gave voice to that. And what the cleveland eight have done has given voice to the citizens of the city of cleveland. When you say cleveland eight, you are referring to this group of sinn citizens and clergy that took this step of filing this kind of basic case appeal. And i want to ask you, when you look at the speed of it and what the judge found, how should that if at all, impact the grand jury . I will read from a statement from a different per tech specktive. The attorney of an officer said the ruling should not impact the investigation conducted by the Sheriffs Department. We respect the authority of the prosecutor reviewing and investigating this case. Basically the idea this should be a nonfactor. Well first of all, the opinion, given by the judge in a tenpage ruling is purely advisory. Thats the law in ohio. It strikes me how convoluted our criminal Justice System has become. Im not just picking on ohio. There are other states as well. What we forget is the criminal Justice System is financed 100 by taxpayers. It belongs to the people. It seems the people are those who get victimized by the system. Here we have a judge, who gave a thoughtful, written ruling in a short period of time. And we have the prosecutor for the county in which the killing occurred saying you know this doesnt impact me at all. Im just going to send everything to the grand jury. Im going to conduct my investigation because thats what i do whenever there are officerinvolved shootings. So this judge, and the cleveland eight, you know i compliment them, the cleveland eight for their using some innovation and trying to get this case moving. Here we have a prosecutor saying, doesnt make to me. Its not going to impact me at all. Im not going to prejudge what happens there. The grand jury proceedings are secret, the prosecutor can present evidence but we can evaluate what the prosecutor is saying in his own words here which i think by any objective standards, fair to point out, is not the way most violent, serious crimes are approached. Prosecutors go in to a grand jury with an agenda and present an adressive case to get their indictments, right . Is this a departure when it comes to policeinvolved issues . First of all, the grand jury is something that the prosecutor uses at his or her discretion. They dont usually use grand juries. This d. A. , this prosecutor said this is my policy. What i do is that whenever there is an officerinvolved shooting or killing i use a grand jury. The next d. A. Coming in to that county could say im not going to use grand juries at all. They use them at their discretion. The problem is that the d. A. Gets a pass by doing this. If the d. A. Says on his own, which he should do because he is paid big bucks to do this. If he files charges against the officers what he has to look at is Police Officers with whom he has to work being angry with him and the police unions. If he decides not to bring charges, then he has the community in an uproar. Whats the d. A. Do . He passes the buck goes to a grand jury in secret. No lawyers except for the prosecutor. That davmt. A. Can say anything that he wants to get what he wants. It is secret shrouded in secrecy. It is a system that has no oversight. We talk about there should be oversight with the police. Theres no oversight with the grand jury system. If that is the case and this is to some degree a dodge that works as long as people dont get it given the Serious National Conversation we have been having here with the president on down and some republicans weighing in as well at what point does the dodge fail because the public understands in some cases the grand jury is used to route around the prosecutor doing what they are supposed to do which is present the evidence and push for indictments when warranted. Absolutely. We are in that moment. Were in that moment in time in our countrys history right now. People are not going to be able to dodge. Im not saying that our county prosecutor is trying to dodge, but i agree with the judge in the cavalier nature of what the prosecutor had to say after judge adrians ruling just further puts gasoline on the heaviness that the citizens the africanamerican citizens in particular, in the city of cleveland are feeling. So, to me the way he approached it was not necessarily the right way. Task force came back with recommendations, one of which is to evaluate the grand jury process of which our chief justice of the Ohio Supreme Court has said she will do. We have to address this as a country. No longer can we hide in the shadows and pretend like racism is not in the dna of this countrys history. And this is a day of reckoning where we must do the right thing, not just for tamir rice and the countless other folks. But we have a real problem in this country. And it starts it does not start with the police. It will not end with the police but the police are part of the process. The reason why the cleveland eight brought this is because theres a lack of belief in the system. When you have any group of people who lose hope and belief in a system we have a problem because the community and the police need each other. Thats how justice prevails but we have to stand up and really what folks are asking for is oversight and accountability and thats not too much to ask for. We are six months from the original incident and only seeing the faintest action through the normal system. Thats what made the unusual order from the judge today catching a lot of extra attention. We will keep up on this story. Thank you for your insights tonight. Up next a new scent could be the lead police were looking for in the big manhunt for two escaped prisoners in upstate new york. New details on what kind of relationship one of those prisoners had, allegedly with a prison employee. U probably know xerox as the company thats all about printing. But did you know we also support hospitals using Electronic Health records for more than 30 million patients . Or that our Software Helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure email every month . Or how about processing nearly 5 billion in electronic toll payments a year . In fact, todays xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. 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Join the nation. Baby. Nationwide is on your side its been six days since two convicted murderers escaped from Clinton Correctional Facility and police are expected to intensify their search in a heavily wooded area east of dannemora, a few miles from the prison itself. Sources close to the investigation told nbc news that joyce mitchell, the prison worker questioned on the issue was supposed to be the official getaway driver for those two men until she got cold feet and checked herself in at a local hospital. Mitchell established some kind of relationship with one of the inmates, richard matt over the past couple of months and she thought it was love. Miguel alma gary has the latest on the search for the killers. Tonight the army and manhunt, more than 500 heavily armed officers on the move. I believe we will catch these guys. Reporter search teams following k9s like these who tracked one if not both of the fugitives deep in to the forest. Officer sweeney, possible flee of a suspect. Reporter tactical teams say this is the best lead they have had, closing in on murderers david sweat and richard matt. S. W. A. T. Team aviation support, k9s bloodhounds and luckily enough they got a positive hit on a scent and hopefully it is fresh. It appears to be. And a footprint with wrappers and food. Marshalls were en route. With officers stacked 100 yards apart, teams are combing an area in dense brush 20 to 30 acres wide. It is three miles from the maximum security prison they escaped from. Dozens living inside the Police Perimeter told to lock their doors. Thomas la salle spoke to us from inside of his home. Everyone has shotguns rifles and pistols. Jennifer lives on the edge of what is a hot zone. Im pretty well off. I have a gun on me. You are not scared to use it . No im not. I took my hunter safety course when i was younger. I grew up in the woods and hunting. Reporter with streets locked down and schools closed today even children are on alert. Two people got out of jail. Reporter darlene, caring for seven kids lives directly next to a check point. Trying to keep them calm not worry them too much. Reporter tonight the massive push is on to find two killers. Just outside the prison from which they escaped. Nbc news, dannemora, new york. Coming up new allegations of wrongdoing in one of americas largest prisons and what the Obama Justice department is doing about it. [husband] gabys Natural Beauty products. One moment. [husband] gaby,amor,es para ti. [gaby] customer service. One second please. [gaby]hija¿podemos enviar 10 cajas mas a miami . [daughter 1] claro sofi. [teen daughter]yo me encargo. This is sofia. Sure,no problem. [announcer]you work hard to grow your business. At wells fargo we work with you to help your business thrive. Wells fargo. Together well go far. Leave early go roam sleep in sleep out star gaze dream big wander more care less beat sunrise chase sunset do it all. On us. 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Ive smoked a lot and quit a lot but ended up nowhere. Now i use this. The nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release Technology Helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. I want this time to be my last time. Thats why i choose nicoderm cq. Rikers jail is back in the news as a symbol of what is wrong with americas Justice System and a place where some accountable may be on the way. This is ronald spear, 52yearold inmate held in a section of rikers for ill prisoners. He had a kidney disease. He died after allegedly Prison Guards beat him. Last year the city paid his family 3 million over the incident. Local prosecutors declined to prosecute the guards. That might have been the end of the story, some money but no accountability or answers until now. On wednesday, a federal prosecutor appointed by president obama took the unusual step of charge ing three for spears death. The allegations in the indictment are haunting. U. S. Attorney alleging the officer beat spear to death and holding him down stomping on his head and conspired in a cover story against spear planting evidence and lying to investigators about that death. The very day the fed brought the charges an inmate hung himself in the cell. And a former inmate committed suicide at home. He spent three years at rikers without ever convicted of any crime. He was accused of stealing a backpack at the age of 16 held on a bond his family couldnt afford and stoubt alleged beatings and punishment through solitaire confinement. He was offered a plea deal for time served, maintaining his innocence and the case drew attention for obvious injustice, punishing a minor who should be presumed innocence and he spoke about his experience in 2013. There were times when i cried myself to sleep. It was hard at one point i tried to kill himself. I thought the whole point of me being on the show to get my story out there. I feel like this happens every day. This happens every day. And i feel like it has to stop. Reporter joining me now for a special discussion on these issues staff writer covering detention issues for the marshall project. Good evening to all of you. Good evening. When you look at this obviously tragic case what do we know . Do you think the suicide was in some part caused by this mistreatment at the prison . Khalifs case . Uhhuh. I dont think there is any question about it. I think there is a direct correlation. Theres no way anybody can tell me anything differently than what im telling you right now. There has to be a direct correlation. He went in to jail as a healthy, mentally stable young man and came out tormented, tortured and suicidal. That just played out this weekend unfortunately. You look at a case like this and this is not what Many Americans imagine the Justice System to be. It is not what we want to believe about our Justice System. To be clear here while he was at rikers as i mentioned, he had never been convicted of doing anything wrong. This was especially punishment before trial . Correct. In fact, 80 of the inmates at Rikers Island today have not been convicted of any wrongdoing at all. They are merely there awaiting their court date awaiting their trial date. And the incredible thing is and the sad thing is they are treated as if they are guilty. They are presumed guilty. That sort of goes against our model in this country, isnt it presumed innocence, but they are presumed guilty by corrections and sometimes by prosecutors. So its a difficult thing to overcome. But your stories today, as amazing as they are, they dont surprise me. This happens all the time in Rikers Island. To put those numbers down vince, there was a doj investigation by an obama appointee looking at use of force on adolescents. These are minors many not convicted of anything. 517 use of force incidents. Over 1,000 injuries in 2012 staff use of force, over 1,000 injuries in 2013 and then you get to what i think is a rarity but is happening this week which is the president s federal prosecutor saying actually they dug in found misconduct and are going after the Corrections Officers. Yeah. This jail is just about everything that could be wrong with a jail is wrong with this jail. Its because its the second largest in the country. The problems are that big, as well. Theres been an increase of correction officers violence 240 over ten years. 700 roughly 700 juveniles are in that prison every day, in that jail every day. Even with all of those problems i think you are right. What we are seeing from the federal prosecutors is a signal here that things have gone so wrong, particularly where state prosecutors arent going to prosecute corrections officer like the bronx d. A. Refused to do. Now the federal prosecutor will step in even if it involves civil rights violations. These are the things that need to happen. It is a is step in the right direction for sure. Especially after the u. S. Attorneys report their investigation last sum they are is a nice followup. Actually go there and arrest and prosecute these guards. I interview khalid earlier this year and he explained why it is important to him, above putting criminals in jail. Let me play some of that. Just because you were behind bars doesnt mean you are beyond the constitution. Some of the most vulnerable poet people in society, you mentioned them, are young people 16, 17, 18 years old thrown in to Rikers Island and as we demonstrate in the report we issued a enthe lawsuit we brought against the city some of them are treated very harshly and very poorly. Now you hear him saying that. Now hes indicted the Corrections Officers does that change what is going on there . Anytime off prosecutor bringing charges and kg accountability be something that is brought in to a correctional setting, especially when it comes to staff. Thats going to send a message these things are going to be gone after and these are crimes that are actually somebody that will be held accountable for. I think one thing thats important to prove the point about what he said about juveniles and hes also said that solitaire was used excessively. The department changed its policies around solitaire. Some of the reporting we have done found that people under 18 who are not supposed to be sentenced to solitaire were receiving solitaire sentences even after the change. Di didnt serve them. They were intended for after their 18th birthdays but it shows the culture you are dealing. There might be staff resistance to that. The headlines in new york and around the country, this is not a secret. You see rikers inmate dying after suicide watch ignored. Gross incompetence cited. Today the mayor of new york saying he is discontinuing one of the contracts after finding problems. Is it one of these things where people are innured to it. They think it is unfixable. I think thats what happens. There are a couple of things. One is that in the general populous, people dont think when crimes are committed by Corrections Officers or Police Officers they are crimes and they are doing their job. Thats beginning to shift. I think it is beginning to shift in the Police Context and the corrections context because the abuses are so outrageous. It is broken bone after broken bone, people losing their sight, hearing. It is hard to sit by when it is happening to young people and people in solitaire confinement to say there is nothing we can do and it is good to see, prosecutors, state and federal, are stepping up to identify the problems and attempt to solve them. I want top continue the conversation, thats why we have extra time after the break. When we come back what policy changes with this panel can we talk about that will make a difference Going Forward . The panel will respond. Stay with us. But when i started having back pain my sister had to come help. I dont like asking for help. I took tylenol but i had to take six pills to get through the day. So my daughter brought over some aleve. Its just two pills, all day and now, im back aleve. Two pills. All day strong, all day long. And for a good nights rest, try aleve pm for a better am. Fresher dentures, for the best first impression. Love loud, live loud, polident. I take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. Because it gives me. Zero heartburn prilosec otc. The number 1 doctorrecommended frequent heartburn medicine for 9 straight years. One pill each morning. 24 hours. Zero heartburn. Put your hand over your heart. Is it beating . Good then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. Its a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. I said people with hearts. Because Hearts Health is important. Thats why ive researched optimized and packaged this mix just for you. Not you. So if you have a heart start optimizing your nutrition with my nutrition. Planters. Nutrition starts with nut. Hey pal . You ready . Can you pick me up at 6 30 . Ah. boy im here im here cop too late. I was gone for five minutes ugh move it. Youre killing me. You know what, dad . Im good. dad it may be quite a while before hes ready, but our Subaru Legacy will be waiting for him. vo the longestlasting midsize sedan in its class. The twentyfifteen Subaru Legacy. Its not just a sedan. Its a subaru. Welcome back. We have been talking about problems at Rikers Island. Paul, we have been talking about your client who committed suicide. He was held in rikers for thee years without trial. Never convicted of anything wrong. Right. I want to continue that conversation and play a little reaction from senator rand paul who long before this tragic suicide had talked about this as a problematic case. He links it to policy something were about to talk about, he links it to why there is anger in places like baltimore and a cycle between police and civilian conduct. Lets listen to that and get your reaction. I have been telling the story for about and year and a half two years now. It makes me sad. I thought i not talking or telling the story again but i thought this young mans memory should help to change things. He died this weekend. He committed suicide. He was a 16yearold black teenager from the bronx. For goodness sakes, are we going to let people be raped, murdered and pillaged in prison because they have been convicted . He wasnt even convicted. So when i see people angry and upset, im not here to excuse violence in the cities but when i see people angry, i understand where some of the anger is coming from. Thats a u. S. Senator talking about your clients story. Do you think he knew his case which showed everything was wrong was having that impact getting that reaction . Certainly. He was well aware of the significance of the case. He was shy. He didnt want attention. He didnt want interviews, but he knew his story was important. He was willing to talk about it. Because he knew that he needed to get that story out there. After all he had been through. If you hear him articulate the details of especially his stay in solitaire confinement, they blow you away. They put tears in your eyes. You say you spoke to him a few days before he took his own life and you said he sounded off but not totally depressed. What did you talk to him about in those final days . I talked to him frequently and tried to see him frequently as much as i could. Even if we werent talking about our case. A lot of times we were just talking. It was cathartic to him. I tried to send the message, life is important and theres so much to live for. Because i feared with his mental instability, i guess you would call it that this day would come. That he would pass in this way. I didnt really sense it to the extent that i talked to him and he assured me he was okay. I invited him down for lunch the friday before he passed. I wanted to take him out for his birthday but he had a School Barbecue and i thought it would be a good idea. He soumpbd sounded sbrepsinterested in going. If i saw him before he killed himself i think i could have saved him. I really document i would have been able to talk to him and look in his eye and try to get a sense of where he was at and if something was wrong i could have talked to him and i think i could have talked him out of it but that is neither here or there. We have to move forward. Vince, at ccr you do this client work, as well. What is the role here of a Public Interest lawyer or the activists and the people in the community that want to deal with these things both with policy reform fixing the root problem. We talk about the root problem but also dealing with the terrible real problems on an individual level. My heart goes out to his family. Its terrible to hear what this young man was going through right before he was killed. Devastating. Nelson mandela talks about used to talk about how you could tell a lot about a country by the way it treats its prisoners. What you can tell about our country, about the way we treat young people and adults incarcerated is we think they are subhuman. It doesnt matter whether they are convicted of a violent crime, accused of a nonviolent crime, we treat them as if their humanity doesnt matter. You dont put people in solitaire confinement for 23 24 hours a day when you know, when they say after 15 days you start to decompensate and expect a good outcome. Your up final thought . I just its just im speechless right now. You just brought me back to that. And its hard. Its hard. Its hard knowing this could have been prevented. This sad story were talking about, the city of new york wrote that screen play. They wrote that script and they could have changed it anytime between his arrest in may of 2010 and his passing on saturday. They never picked up their pen. Its their fault. It wasnt his. He tried. I know he did. But at some point he couldnt overcome it. Appreciate you sharing your story of your client and the work you are doing. Thank you all for the discussion tonight. Coming up the department of Human Services had to call 911 during a visit to the duggar home. Making a fist something we do to show resolve. To defend ourselves. To declare victory. So cvs Health Provides expert support and vital medicines. At our Infusion Centers or in patients homes. We help them fight the good fight. Cvs health, because health is everything. Song Rachel Platten fight song two million, four hundred thirtyfour thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. And only one me. Ill take those odds. Be unstoppable. The allnew 2015 ford edge. Now we turn to a story with some real good news. Two Los Angeles County sheriffs deputies are in good shape after undergoing surgery, one donated half of his liver to the other. Deputy jorge castro was diagnosed with a rare Liver Disease and only a living transplant would save him. He mentioned his condition to his friend while they were out working. This was two weeks ago. Without telling his friend, the deputy went to the hospital top see if he was a match and learned that he was. Something he did which i can never repay. He was able to say, hey, this is the guy who saved me. What touched me is now i get to see you grow up. I get to be a part of your life. And that gave me so much happiness. So im thankful to help him here and hope to have him here for the rest of his life. They are expected to return to work in about two months. Good for them. Coming up next, the duggar familiars new trouble. S to omega3s, its the epa and dha that really matter for heart health. Not all omega3 supplements are the same. Introducing bayer pro ultra omega3 from the Heart Health Experts at bayer. With two times the concentration of epa and dha as the leading omega3 supplement. Plus, its the only brand with progel Technology Proven to reduce fish burps. New bayer pro ultra omega3. Youve heard of a winwin, right . What about a winwinwin . Pick up the limited edition metallic droid turbo by motorola. Waterrepellent. Up to 48hour battery life and ballistic nylon back. Thats your first win. Plus, its only on verizon. The 1 network. Theres your next win. Now for final win. Get 250 when you trade in any smartphone. And get 10 gigs of data for 80 a month and 15 per line. The winwinwin. A new way to save without settling. Only on verizon. Looks like there maybe more trouble for the duggar family. In touch magazine uncovered a 911 call from the Arkansas Department of Human Services placed after an attempt to visit the family. The call is from may 27th days after the molestation allegations against josh duggar surfaced. The today shows joe fryer has the story. Whats the address of the emergency . Address is duggar family home. Reporter this is audio from a 911 call obtained by in touch magazine through the freedom of information act and shared exclusively with today. In an issue on newsstands now, they report the department of Human Services went to the duggar family house on may 277th eight days after josh duggars molestation scandal surfaced. The magazine says dhs was not allowed inside and had to call 911. Tell me what happened . Well were Washington County dhs office and we are out here and have an investigation and i guess they are not being cooperative and we have to see the child to make sure the child is all right. We need Police Assistance or escort. Reporter its unclear what happened next because the call was transferred. Its unclear what was being investigated in the first place. Arkansass department of Human Services tells nbc news it can neither confirm nor deny whether we have investigated a specific family. Josh is our oldest. Reporter so far, no comment from the duggars who star in the reality show 19 kids and counting. The family admitted in 20032002 when their eldest child josh was a teenager he inappropriately touched five under aged girls. Four of the victims were his sisters including jill and jessa who spoke to fox news last week defending their parent s and brothers. I can see looking back as an adult, they handled the situation very well. They set up safety guards in the house. They sent josh away. Had him get help. When he came back he was a totally different person. Reporter those two daughters started to post on social media again with jill release ing new photos of her baby and jessa sharing a picture from her ultrasound. From the tonight on all in my son is gone and i want to know how long ive got to wait for justice. Breaking news from ohio where a judge says the policeman who shot and killed 12yearold tamir rice should be charged with murder. Plus, was the man who called
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