We have found on one of our videos two males who spoke with the prerpetrator prior to the event and says, watch what im going to do. He walks northbound, circles around, across the street and comes up on the officers. We were able to identify two eyewitnesss to the account. Two particularly courageous con ed workers chased him and alerted him the officers who pursued him down to the subway, when he took his life. President obama is monitoring the developments from hawaii and pledging washington support. We need to make sure that we can have conversations about how policing can be done effectively, how we can have Community Policing going forward, but we also need to at the same time protect our Law Enforcement personnel. And i think having the conversation about one is not undercutting the other. We have to have them both. Msnbcs adam reiss is at the crime scene in brooklyn. The mayor spoke earlier to Police Athletic league. Many felt he showed Great Respect for the police there, but the city is waiting with baited breath for this press conference that will happen at the half hour. What is the mood where you are right now . Well, toure, i can tell you that this memorial behind me is growing by the minute. Flowers, candles, cards. Police officers from around the city coming here to pay their respects and grieve together. A lot of emotion, a lot of tears. We can tell you that weve learned more about the hours leading up to the crime as well as the criminal history of brinsley. He was arrested 19 times in georgia and ohio. He had spent two years in jail and his mother has told police that he had tried to commit suicide this year. Now, as you heard, when he arrived on the scene, he had run into two people. He began a conversation. He said, i want you to follow me on instagram. He asked them what their gang affiliation was. Then he said, watch what im going to do. Now, i can tell you minutes ago pat lynch, head of the police union, showed up here in uniform, to pay his respects. We just learned minutes ago as well, brewedbruden college wher officer ramos son went, offered to pay the remainder of his tuition for his education. Adam reiss in brooklyn, thank you. On set is former nypd officer Eugene Odonnell, now professor of law at jon jay college of criminal justice and in d. C. , nbc news senior political reporter perry bacon. You gene, i start with you. I have to imagine this moment is especially hard for Police Officers in new york city and america in general because this is an execution. Police officers understand they potentially get killed every day, but when you have an execution, right after a moment when the police handled massive protests in new york city with great concern and care and were widely hailed for handling it the right way, to have this happen has to be so painful. Talk about how the men and women who are the street are feeling. I think theres a lot of anger and a lot of feelings that people have been talking about police work, who dont know what theyre talking about. I think thats why the commissioner is such an important figure because he does know what hes talking about and has led and will lead going forward. I think also those who are im getting a lot of calls about why is the pba saying what theyre saying. Understand, this is a hospital room where metaphorically pat lynchs entire membership has been killed. They didnt pick them because of who they were. They picked them because of the uniform they are wearing. 48 hours, i assume theres going to be a chance to have a much more reasoned dialogue, but to cite the statement somebody makes in an emergency room who basically and the other thing i hope people will recognize, to me, labor rights are civil rights. This is a union that represents its members. That has to be said over and over again. We have to understand that pat lynch and the union is in a very difficult situation. But these sort of comments, saying that the mayor has blood on his hands, the pair shoumayo not be showing up to officer funerals. You have a deranged guy, causality is lacking. But theres extreme tension that people have not been able to articulate what the police do and explain the circumstances theyre in. Hopefully as we get as we move forward, there will be more chance to have a more rational and less emotional conversation. Perry, id like to come to you. Mikey kay standing in for ari melber. I spent 20 years in the military and we were very much told to respect the rank of an individual rather than the individual itself. Is there an argument to say here that given what we saw about the nypd turning their backs on de blasio, is this a real Good Opportunity for the nypd to take the moral high ground and look more towards the office of the mayor than what seems to be a devisice approach from de blasio . I think theres an opportunity there. This is nothing new in the sense police have had tensions with mayors. David dinkens had tension as well. You might look at how the police in new york, teachers in new york, another big constituency there is, we should raise concerns, we have them, we dont agree with the way de blasio has spoke in the last few weeks. I respect their right to speak out that they disagree with the mayor. Eugene, we were saying the emotion right now is still so very raw. One of the sons of the Police Officer who was killed, jayden ramos sent out a facebook message saying today is the worst day of my life. Today hi to say bye to my father. Its horrible someone gets shot dead just for being a Police Officer. Then he goes on to say, everyone says they hate cops but they are the people they call for help. I will always love you. I will never forget you. This is a young man who has grown up probably spending a lot of time around the nypd, speaking very candidly about how he feels people think about cops. What do you make from that statement . I think if anybody saw the pictures outside of woodhull hospital, should put light that this organization doesnt have diversity of the city. You wont see more cops unified in an emergency. I just want to say, there were some there was some commentary. There was commentary this summer that was really outrageous in terms of Police Officers should be indicted just to be indicted. They should be tried just to be tried. Talking about their Due Process Rights like they dont matter. Talking about their presumption of innocence, like they dont matter. So, again, understand that were talking about the pba. Again, understand the pba has taken a role in saying there was overpolicing. So, demonizing im not a demonizer to begin with, but i believe demonizing the pba at this point is not a good place to begin either. Speaking of demonization and the comments back and forth, lets take a step back and look at this from the national per speck tifr. President obama has talked about racial tensions and has not totally been successful, even by his own administrations account. There was the Trayvon Martin incident, gates. Here bill de blasio after eric garners grand jury determined not to indict the officer in that case, now bill de blasio is being blamed in some corners for the murders that were seeing here today. Clearly, this is a very difficult conversation for elected officials to have. What does that say about where we are as a country in terms of race and the political angle to this . Is this something any politician can talk about or is it just too inflammatory at this point . I think its really hard. I mean, the reality is if youre bill de blasio, if youre president obama f youre eric holder f youre a democratic person elected to the democratic party, essentially, you have to speak about racial issues. One reason you earn your jobs is because africanamericans overwhelmingly elect democrats. Theres a lot of pressure on obama, holder, de blasio, like their comments about what happened to martin and garner, they came from people like al sharpton asking, where are you going to weigh in . How are you going to weigh is . N . I think their leadership role in those incidents, being black leaders and leaders with black constituencies, they have to speak out even when they know its dangerous. I will add obamas comments about trayvon in 2013 did not create this. You get the long speech that day. He did not create a big amount of backlash. What created the backlash and the tension about this murder that happened on saturday has really changed this conversation in a lot of ways. Youve seen the anger thats there. The question for de blasio today is, can he figure out a way to kind of meet the expectations and the needs of both the police and the black community who are both in tension a little bit right now on Police Practices and so on. Is there a way to meet and kind of fit both their needs at once . Thats a real challenge but thats ultimately what his job is right now in new york and thats what the president and eric holder are trying to do nationally. Thats, indeed, a big challenge for the mayor. Eugene, do you think its fair to say this mayor has blood on his hands . Thats not language i would choose to have. I think we had a very bad, corrosive dialogue. I think elected officials at every level should have stepped up. Still have an opportunity to step up and explain what the police do and stop making it like the police are out there on a limb. Do you think the mayor can get the Police Department back on his side . I think its essential. I think the part i feel very confident about, having been a Police Officer in brooklyn, is the community, this is one of no matter what happens, theres bumps in the road. Ultimately the police are always one of the most esteemed professions. Any cop whos been out in the streets of brooklyn north, brooklyn south, for example, will tell you, theres a tremendous ground swell of good will. Comes also have to learn to happen into that sometimes. Stay with us. Well have more on this. Were waiting on the press conference from the mayor and Police Commissioner. Well bring that to you as soon as it happens as the cycle rolls on, monday, december 22nd. You need to catch the 4 10 huh . The Equipment Tracking system will get you to the loading dock. There should be a truck leaving now. I got it. Now jump off the bridge. What . In 3. 2. 1. Are you kidding me . Go. Right on time. Right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. We call that predictable. Thrillingly predictable. Get to the terminal across town. Are all the green lights you . No. Its called grid iq. The 4 51 is leaving at 4 51. They cut the power. Itll fix itself. Powers back on. Quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. Thrillingly predictable. Breaking news. North korea is experiencing a widespread internet outage right now, coming a few days after the white house promised a, quote, proportional response for the sony hack attack theyre being blamed for. Kristen welker is with the president in honolulu. What are you hearing about this . Reporter the white house isnt denying the attack at the same time one official tells me they have no Additional Information to share. Are you right. Its significant. Its coming just days after president obama vowed a proportional response against north korea. We also know the administration is continuing to weigh its responses. Senior Administration Officials having those discussions right now. And president obama tipped his hand a little bit on sunday when he said that among the options that the administration was considering was possibly adding north korea back to the terror list. That would mean increased economic and trade sanctions. Now, one expert cautions, though, that could be more politically symbolic than anything else because there are already a range of sanctions imposed against north korea for decades. Now, just a little bit of history on that point. North korea had been on the terror list for years. And then in 2008 under former president george w. Bush the country was taken off because president obama wanted to strike a Nuclear Weapons deal with the country. That deal fell apart. North Korea Remains off of the terror list. That is the backdrop as theres another debate brewing about this. President obama when asked how he would characterize this attack said it was an act of cyber vandalism. Republicans say that the president is downplaying this attack. Senator john mccain is calling this an act of cyber warfare. He is urging the administration to have a strong, robust response. So, that is the backdrop as the administration tries to determine what its next steps will be. And i am told we can expect president obama to be briefed regularly on the range of options before him while he continues his vacation here in hawaii. Kristen welker with the president and palm trees in the background. Thanks very much. Lets turn to former top boss at the fbi, shawn henry. Basic question needs to be answered as we look at whats happening with sony hacking is north korea still claims they had nothing to dough with this while the fbi is sure they did. Walk us through this. If north korea wanted to send a message with a hack, wouldnt they take credit for it . Whats the motive to deny responsibility for it . I dont know why they would not claim responsibility. I know what the fbi looked at when they came up with the determination. My organization has been following the North Koreans for about two or three years. Youve looked at the same evidence the bureau looked at based on other attacks theyve launched. I dont know its unusual for them to deny this, especially if theyre concerned about what type of retribution there might be. Shawn w this country wide internet outage in north korea, i think we see a proportional response to the hack that attacked america, at least sony corporation. Though, i wonder, is this more something that will impact the people rather than the government or is there a submotive or subtext that now the people will be upset with the government and that will start some other sort of ball rolling . Well, wideranging internet outage is a relative term in a country like north korea which has relatively little Internet Connectivity to begin with. If, in fact, thats the u. S. Sending a message, then that is what it does. And if that causes some consternation among the north Korean People and some type of outrage against their political leaders, so be it. Yeah. And there are questions around whether north korea is even capable of Something Like this. There have been some reports the original ip dress came from china. We have not confirmed those reports. In the case china has any association with this, first of all, is that a likelihood . If thats the case, how does that change the conversation and ultimately our proportional responses to this . Well, north korea will launch attacks through other nations using their ip space. The fact that that there are ip addresses from china as well as other countries, that is normal in any type of attack. Youll see ip addresses from a whole range of places so that is not indicative of anything. To your first point, north korea absolutely has the capability of doing this. Weve seen them do this before, they have the capabilities. Honestly, the types of attacks weave seen here are not so sophisticated that only the most capable nation states can do it. There are a wide range of actors that can conduct this type of activity, which is why the American People should be concerned. Its michael kay here. Im curious about this whole notion of putting north korea back on the terrorist predicated on a cyber attack. Is this not really a dangerous precedent to set given north korea arent even in the top ten when it comes to people orr countries that have that have conducted attacks worldwide . Countries like china, which are number one, indonesia which are prolific and the u. S. , which is in the top three, are we not setting a red line which will be hard to maintain or be consistent with when we look at other countries . Right. Well, you know, i think the president had to make a statement. I think this is far beyond cyber vandalism, which is what the president said. Vandalism to me is graffiti. This is well beyond that. As far as senator mccain saying its cyber war, i think were somewhere in the middle. I would call this cyber terrorism where somebody, a nation state in this case, is using threats of violence to influence peoples actions. That is the very definition of terrorism. So, to the extent that were going to classify is it as something, i think cyber terrorism is really in the area where it should be considered. And all actions by the president should be on the table. Agreed. But the u. S. , shawn, is doing exactly the same. The u. S. Is number three culprit in the world today. Are we not being a bit hypocritical here . I understand what you say about cyber terrorism but the u. S. Is equally to blame. Where it relates to these types of acts where were talking about destructive attacks in other nations, via cyber, i dont know that we are in that same ballpark. This type of issue requires governmenttogovernment discussion. Im concerned about an escalation in this area which will have a cascading impact globally if we dont have nations sitting down and having discussions about these very type of attacks on the line of nuclear war and weapons of mass destruction. I really put this in the same category. Got it. I want to bring in adam, author of his new book what stays in vegas the world of personal data, life blood of big business and in the end of privacy as we know it. Adam, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Given what we know now in terms of this career and this notion of labeling north korea back on the terrorist, whats your view on this . Well, what i think is most interesting for the bulk of the United States population is that vast amounts of data are collected about all of us all the time by companies in the United States, mostly, but also worldwide. There are vast dossiers held by date dait that brokers and others that have thousands of points of information about us. What the sony attack has shown is personal information gathered in a central place, such as a company, could be ve