Today the mother of journalist Steven Sotloff made an emotional plea on a saudirun news station broadcast throughout the arab world. Since stevens capture, ive learned a lot about islam. Ive learned that islam teaches that no individual should be held responsible for the sins of others. Steven has no control over the actions of the u. S. Government. Hes an innocent journalist. Meantime, the family of minnesotaborn isis fighter Douglas Mccain says theyre in disbelief after mccain was killed fighting for isis in syria. Attorney general eric holder says federal prosecutors are running about 100 investigations into u. S. Citizens who may be following mccains lead. The pentagon spoke about that earlier today on Andrea Mitchell reports. When we talk about the potential immediacy of the threat, thats this idea of foreign fighters going over there, getting radicalized, get equipped, get trained, and go back to their home state. Quite a busy day. So many moving pieces. Here to help sort them out, we have kenneth pollack, senior fellow at brookings institute. He worked on president clintons National Security council. Thanks so much for being on the show, sir. Always glad to be here. Thanks for having me, luke. I was interested in an oped written in the Washington Post today where a gentleman basically says that the best way to go after isis is not necessarily eliminate baghdadi, their head, because someone else could fill the vacuum, perhaps someone we do not know. But the best way for the u. S. To eliminate this threat is to go after midlevel leadership and try and decimate them through that capability. What is the best way for the u. S. To go about getting rid of isis militarily at this point, considering theyre using ieds and our air strikes can only go so far . Yeah, look, this is the 64,000 question. What we have learned historically is the way you defeat groups like isis is not to go after the top, not to go after the middle, its to turn the people against them. This is what the u. S. Ultimately succeeded in doing in iraq. We convinced the sunni population of iraq back in 20072008 to finally turn against what was then al qaeda in iraq. It was enormously successful because they wanted them out, and they simply needed our help to do so. Thats what were seeing up in Northern Iraq where the kurds and other groups are pushing back on them. A little bit of american support, weaponry, air strikes goes a long way when youve got the people armed and willing to push back on them. The problem in much of iraq and in much of syria is thats not the case. The people are not armed. Theyre not organized. And in many cases, they are frightened and ambivalent about the threat that al qaeda and isis pose to them because they see other threats. The assad regime, the maliki regime when maliki was in power. These are the real challenges. So it has to be this combined political and military campaign. Lets talk a little more about the political piece of that in iraq. And this is something youve been writing on. Very interesting things. Weve all been talking about how we cant have this divided government. We have to have some sort of a government in iraq that has political legitimacy among all parties. Youre writing about some of the specific asks that the sunnis, shias, and kurds and other groups in iraq actually want. What is a viable political solution potentially look like in iraq . Yeah, this is the huge question, krystal. I think we request look at the situation in iraq and can say broadly its going to have to be a situation where the sunnis get much greater say over their own affairs, maybe they get an autonomous region similar to what the kurds have. Power in iraq is decentralized. The sunnis get a share of oil revenue. The Iraqi Military is thoroughly refo reformed. Thats kind of easy to say. Its actually unbelievably difficult to make it work in practice. Chances are its going to take months, maybe even years. So the key is right now for the u. S. And its allies, the turks, the saudis, groups that actually have influence, within particular the sunnis. Weve got to get them what they need in the near term. Symbolic gestures, initial steps by the Iraqi Government to make them feel comfortable that theyre going to get what they need at the end of the day but they dont try to wait until they have everything they need to start fighting isis. We need them to start fighting isis soon. We cant wait two, three, four years, maybe never, for this political process to sort itself out. The real key is going to be how much can we get them, and is it going to be enough . Symbolic gestures, initial steps, things we can hand them and say, look, this is a clear sign the shia would want to work with you. See if thats going to be enough. Get them to start working against isis with us. Seems like in iraq there are these various constituencies we can work with. Were using our air power and supporting the iraqi kurds, what remains of the iraqi central government. In syria, is there that partner for us . How can we intervene in syria given the vacuum that exists there and try to support something to push isis out . Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, josh, there is a partner. Its called the syrian people. In particular, syrias sunni populous, like the iraqi populous, they really dont have any love for isis. They dont have any love for the nusra front. They see this front as dangerous and imposing harsh conditions on their life. But no one gives them any al person pif. No one protects them from these guys. The average person is not going to turn on them. So they go along with it, no matter how unwillingly. What you find is where it works, youve got to create circumstances where the average person feels comfortable pushing back, where they feel safe enough to do so. And the problem is in syria there is just no one doing that. This has been one of the constant criticisms of the obama administration. And i think to the extent we are looking at how do you actually solve this problem, its something that weve got to look hard at. In iraq, yes, theres the potential there. Maybe if we can get a unified new Iraqi Government, that will allow us to then help them. In syria, right now weve got nothing. What that means is if we are going to really deal with the threat of isis and these other groups in syria, were going to have to build a new group in syria that we actually can back and that the average syrian can put their trust in. Thats not impossible. Weve done it in other places of the world. But its going to require a much bigger effort than the administration has so far been willing to make. Ken, news that iran is sending arms and ammunition to the iraqi kurds to help them in their fight against isis. We see isis is unifying the world in the fight against isis, making nations that dislike each other work together. But this is what we need. We shouldnt have an American Force going it alone. We should have forces from the middle east and from europe helping us combat isis. Yeah, youre right. First, welcome to the middle east. This is how things work there. But we do need to remember that the enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend. In this case, youre absolutely correct. Everybody pretty much hates isis. There arent too many people out there who really like isis. There are some people who will tolerate it, some who may be seeing it serve some of their purposes. In general, everyone is pretty scared of it. That includes the iranians. This is one of those issues. There are a number where we and the iranians do have common interests. I think youre absolutely right. From my perspective, we shouldnt be fighting the iranians on this. If they want to contribute to the common fight against isis, we should be welcoming it. The more countries willing to do so, the better. But we also need to recognize that iran has its own interests. For them, this is a big twofor. On the one hand, they get to help the kurds fight isis. They like that because they hate and fear isis. But theyre also looking for influence over the kurds. Theyre very nervous about iraqs kurds declaring independence because theyre afraid that will pull their own kurdish population away from them. So dont assume this is just out of, you know, some kind of an iranian strategic interest thats perfectly aligned with the united states. There are always dark lineings to go with the silver clouds. Ken pollack of brookings, timely and poignant analysis. We appreciate that. Up next, what every day americans make of all this. One congressman tells us what hes hearing from constituents back home. Plus a setback in the battle against ebola. And later, the difference between a martyr and a saint. Why it matters this week as the cycle rolls on for wednesday, august 27th. Im going to rant. Luke letting loose. You drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then. Wham a minivan tbones you. Guess what your Insurance Company will only give you 37thousand to replace it. Depreciation they claim. How can my car depreciate before its first oil change . You ask. Maybe the better question is, why do you have that Insurance Company . With Liberty Mutual new car replacement, well replace the full value of your car. See Car Insurance in a whole new light. Liberty mutual insurance. My golden years will not just be gold plated. I had 3 different 401 k s. E trade offers rollover options and a Retirement Planning calculator. Now i know when im going to retire. Not if. Co until youre sure you do. You need a hotel room bartender thanks, captain obvious. Co which is why i put the hotels. Com mobile app on my mobile phone. Hotels. Com i dont need it right now. Cycling right now, a setback in the battle against ebola. A third top doctor in sierra leone has now died from the virus. He was working in a clinic with he contracted it. Health workers have been the most susceptible because theyve been so close to sick patients. More than 1400 people in west africa have died from the virus so far. Two American Workers flown back here for treatment have recovered and since been released. And turning now to politics. Tons of chatter inside the walls of the white house has the president mulls air strikes inside of syria. But inside of congress, members of the president s own party are growing increasingly concerned about what may be happening under their watch but without their consent. Theyve had a month to hear about those concerns also from main street. Congressman peter welsh has been talking with his constituents back in vermont, where he joins us from this afternoon. Thank you for being with us. Thank you. So congressman, i know something youve been very outspoken about is if we are going to have air strikes, there needs to be a congressional vote. There needs to be accountability for members of congress to stand up and say where they stand on that issue. First of all, do you know how you would vote in such an instance and why . Also, is that something youre hearing from your constituents that theyre really concerned about, that piece of congressional accountability here . There is. A couple things. One, it would depend on what the president requested. I did support the efforts he made to stop the genocide of the yazidis and to protect our personnel in erbil. In that circumstance, it was specific to genocide and protection of american lives. But we also had a circumstance where we had a competent government, kurdish government, and a competent military as an ally of the peshme arga. But if we move now into going after isis in syria, thats a whole different question. Thats us making a move towards assuming major responsibility when, in fact, we can be of assistance but the primary responsibility has to be the people in the region. What im hearing here, its complicated in a way. Theres collective horror about what isis did to mr. Foley. Of course, his parents live just across the river in new hampshire. Also, vermonters were relieved on the part where theo curtis went to Middlebury College and there was a much better outcome there where he was released after two years of captivity in the nusra front. But theres a real skepticism about america taking on primary responsibility. And thats not just war weariness. Part of it has to do with the common sense recognition that having our boots on the ground in iraq did not get the job done because the iraqi political situation was a mess and continues to be. And nation building in afghanistan didnt really get the job done. So i think people here are skeptical of america taking on responsibility to revolve ageold political conflicts that really persist between the sunni and shia in the middle east because thats something they have to fundamentally do themselves. President obama has said that. Congressman, what sort of sense are you getting from your colleagues . Do members of Congress Want to vote on this . Do they want the responsibility for deciding the course of action here, or do some of them prefer to leave it to the president . Well, candidly, i think a lot of folks would say theyd like to vote but hope we dont have to. Theres a reason why i think congress should. We have an independent responsibility. The president as commander in chief has to make decisions about whats required to protect National Security and americans. He has to do that with reference to what he believes is within his legal authority. But congress has an independent responsibility. We never can be successful in any kind of significant ongoing military action unless the American People are behind it. Weve seen what happens when there isnt support to sustain a military action. So one of the reasons i believe so strongly that we in congress have a responsibility, tough as that vote may be, is that congress does best reflect where every day americans are. So i think that both the president and the congress have to step up, and if were going to be supportive of anything the president s doing, we should say yes or no and be held accountable by the people we represent. Congressman welsh, luke russert here. You said congress does the best job of representing where the American People are. Ive gone to a lot of town halls over the last year, and one thing i often hear, whether it be a conservative district or a liberal district, is we do not want anymore boots on the ground. We do not want to commit trillions more dollars to the middle east for a mission we cannot quantify success often. Where do you see your constituents now, especially after the growth of isis, the beheading of mr. Foley . A lot of things are in peoples living rooms on a day in, day out basis, showing how much we should fear this group. Do you think there is some more desire on behalf of your constituents to go to war against isis . I actually dont think there is. I mean, theres nothing that we could do to isis that people wouldnt in a way support. Because if we could just decapitate them, i think people would support it. But going into syria, people have had experience with whats happened in iraq and in afghanistan. And when you actually start thinking about the collateral consequences of significant military action, especially in syria, thats the one place where if theres a competitor for worst actor in the middle east, its bashar al assad, whos murdered, who has tortured, who has beheaded his own people. Hes created a mountain of bodies. Now, how are we going to navigate between the monster assad and the monster isis and somehow have that come out to be a democratic liberal state . So i think theres a lot of practical reservation on the part of every day people who, yes, are horrified at what isis did but are skeptical of any kind of boots on the ground. Thats conservative and lib call districts both. Congressman, let me turn you back to domestic affairs. Georgia congressman hank johnson says he will in september introduce the stop militarizing Law Enforcement act, which will prevent the transfer of military equipment from the dod to local pds. Would you support that bill, and do you think that it has a chance of getting through congress . There seems to be bipartisan support, possibly, for that. Well, its an important discussion. But ive been talking to my local please chiefs and our commissioner of Public Safety here and asking them about that. What they say is no matter what equipment you have, number one, theres got to be real training. Number two, theres got to be tactical judgment. You dont bring humvees and huge vehicles to a demonstration. So theres an immense abomount training thats important in any department thats going to get equipment. Secondly, in vermont we do have some heavy equipment. Its under control of the state police. Its not like every local Police Department has a humvee or some of this heavy equipment. So the real issue here for me will be taking a hard look at what equipment is going out, if it goes to an agency, should that agency have to be trained both tactically and with leadership about how and when to use certain equipment. Because what you saw in my view in ferguson was a tactical overresponse in the use of equipment that made a volatile situation much worse. Congressman peter welsh, thank you so much for your time. And up next, youve heard from the congressman just what will happen when he and the rest of his colleagues get back to washington. We will put that to dana milbank. And coming together in ferguson through football. Sports illustrated with a take on the town that you havent heard until now. So i get invited to quite a few family gatherings. Heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multicar, paperless. You make a mighty fine missus, mlady. Im not saying marks thrifty. 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