Thanks, ari. Thank you. And welcome to the beat. I am ari melber. We are tracking several big developments as the week begins. Fallout over the Trump Administrations botched ousting of the top federal prosecutor in new york and fallout from that big rally. We have an interview tonight with the former head of the sdny. But we begin with tulsa, where a man who trieds himself on crowd size found a rally so sparsely attended that the New York Times reported trump looked out on the tiny crowd in horror, reports of a backstage meltdown. The venue, basically a third full. And as youll see in some of the rafters, a color coincidence, where the maga red crowd was sup planted by a sea of blue seats. One trump friendly adviser said this was obviously a major failure. Everyone knows that crowds matter in politics, because supporters show your strength. And donald trump looked weak in that empty hall, and weakness doesnt help your credibility. As shawn carter famously said, we dont believe you, you need more people. Trump needed way more people, even on republican turf. And he knew it afterwards. Returning home forelorned, mournful, tie undone, holding that red hat that looked about as crumpled and disappointed as the rally itself. And that, everything i just told you was just the attendance, because the bad political news for donald trump may have medical experts were pleading with residents avoid this rally, dont come. Coronavirus cases hit an alltime high in the state, and now 26 states are seeing increases over the last two weeks. Thats the context for trumps other problem from that same rally night. That he claimed he was ordering a testing slow down, which has generated massive controversy that trump is either walking back or dodging. The pressure is coming from inside the campaign, as well as external advisers. And now a former top, top aide slamming his former boss, the president , for leading the country what he says is clearly the wrong direction. How do you think history will remember donald trump . I hope it will remember him as a oneterm president , who didnt plunge the country irretrievably in a downward spiral. We have heather mcgee, of the color of change, and a longtime expert for us. And returning to the beat, soledad obrien, host of matter of fact. Soledad, when you look at the rally, the political side, as well as the substance, and where were headed tonight, what do you think . I think the United States continues to be on a terrible trajectory when it comes to coronavirus. I know the conversation, coronavirus just dropped to the b block of the news as protests took over the a block. But the bottom line is, were seeing spikes. Arizona, florida, texas, colorado. I mean, things that should have been done a long time ago, miami is just now mandating masks all the time. I mean, in new york, weve been doing that for a very long time. So we still dont have good contact tracing, we still dont have enough testing, et cetera, et cetera. So the president , at his rally, i know his press secretary likes to pretend he was joking, but i dont think he was. I think he genuinely believes if you didnt test, you dont get the numbers. Dont get the numbers, it didnt happen. Its an indication of a leadership vacuum around the Biggest Health crisis in america, and in the globe, in the last 100 years. Public Health Officials are out and out fullon freaking out in many places and concerned about the rise in hospitalizations, and the president is utterly rudderless when it comes to leading. You mentioned leadership, which is where the political and the substance meet, soledad. Heather, here was john bolton again. We note on the show how hes late and appears selfinterested in what hes uncorking. But in journalism, you get all kinds of information. This is what he now says, having been in the room and up close about Donald Trumps approach to governing in public service. I think one of the most important things i learned in watching President Trump up close is he doesnt have any philosophy. He doesnt proceed on that basis or on the basis of a grand strategy or policy. Its all about donald trump. That to me is a lesson for americans as a whole. But particularly for conservative republicans, because if trump wins reelection, which is entirely possible, theres no more guard rail based on what the Republican Party may think about him. So people need to understand that. Heather . You know, i do think that john bolton waiting was selfish and i do think that he should have spoken out much more loudly during the impeachment trial and put more pressure on republicans to subpoena him. But you cant deny that everything he says in the book, from what ive seen so far, you know, adds up. This is a fundamentally selfish human being, who has put 300 million lives in his hands and is leading our country from crisis to crisis. You saw in the trump speech on saturday the same old divide and conquer tactics, right . He hit a quick trifecta of racism, talking about sort of an immigrant or latino home invader being stalking a wife whose husband was not home. He talked about thugs in the street. He talked about, you know, just sort of a menacing threat from people of color and the confederate statues that are our great and beautiful heritage. I suppose just the descendants of people committed treason against their country to defend slavery. Yet with all that racist fearmongering, you look at his agenda, its massive handouts to the wealthy, massive handouts to the biggest corporations, and total malfeasance when it comes to the basic responsibility of keeping americans safe and to keep the lights on. At the end of the month, so much of the aid passed by congress is going to expire and were going to see potentially tens of millions of people being evicted, losing their homes to foreclosure, going without extended unemployment insurance, and this is on President Trump. But weve been nothing this, heather. And nice to see you. But theres no shocker where youre like, oh, my gosh, who knew that donald trump did not have some core beliefs guiding him as he went from being a democrat to a republican who over the years has said over the top crazy, racist things. I think john bolton is selling his book. That doesnt mean what hes saying isnt 100 true. Hes just use thing opportunity to get more people to buy his book. Which is unfortunate. If he had testified, it could have been a lot more useful in terms of informing people and giving some leverage to having our elected officials be able to do something about it. Yeah. And soledad, i want to play the way that the rally has potentially changed the trajectory of the trump campaign. Youve been so thoughtful on these issues, the substance and the journalism, which on the one hand is superficial. On the other hand, calling that out and understanding that this is how their decisions are made i think is an important thing for people to understand, as they go into the ballot box, because that means everyone can understand what the priorities are. Here is the Campaign Manager discussing this. Take a look. I think a fundamental mistake was made. Overpromising and underdelivering is, you know, the biggest mistake you can make in politics. Even if you receive a million or a 1,200,000 rsvps, its always about the turnout. What that means is, we have to go back and reevaluate the system in which people were getting those tickets and determining if they were real. Soledad [ overlapping speakers ] this was the former Campaign Manager, corey lewandowski. Go ahead, soledad. I was just going to say, hes not wrong. Clearly, there were a bunch of teenagers, i know, because i have some, who were ordering tickets on line and a bunch of their friends. I was surprised the campaign wasnt aware of that. Because it wasnt a secret. Some people were doing it as a protest, others doing it as a joke. But it was an open conversation for joining people who were on tiktok. So i was surprised that the campaign didnt see some red flags in that. Then you have people who were saying, dont go to a place indoors where you could get coronavirus, right . That in and of itself red flag for people trying to stay away. Then you have, when you advertise a Million People going to one location that only seats 20,000 people, another red flag. So i was surprised that they didnt get of put all those red flags together and say, maybe having a conversation about a million plus people is going to be a huge mistake. But its not like the heather . I do think that this crowd size piece is helpful for, you know, rattling the president , who is absolutely obsessed with his appearance in many different ways. The fact that he spent 15 minutes out of a president ial address, not talking about the daca decision, that defeat, that protected the dreamers last week, not talking about the george floyd and black lives matter protest that have swept the globe. Didnt mention those ones except obliquely protestering as thugs. But 15 minutes defending himself it goes back i was just going to say that this idea of his own appearance is completely hes completely obsessed with it. The problem is, what he is and is not paying attention to has life and death consequences for the American People and his desire to make himself look good by down playing the coronavirus, by not willing to wear a mask, by fomenting a partisan split on mask wearing. Its reckless. It means that hes unable and unfit to carry out the constitutional duties of the office. He should reseen. The Republican Party should remove him. I think we can talk about it back and forth. But ultimately, he should face the ultimate consequences for these actions. Heather is 100 right, but it goes back to what you started with. He doesnt believe it. Theres no center. Its about how many people showed up. Its about somebody saying bad things about me. Thats all he responds to. And its been this way now for going on four years. Theres no shocker in that. So heather is 100 right on that. He has so many more important things he could be talking about. He cannot physically bring himself to do it. He does not have a bone in his body that seems to care. Perhaps not shocking, but were fwbenefitting from the context to start the week. Soledad, heather, thanks to both of you for joining us. Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Were going the fit in a break. We turn to a big story. Attorney general bill barr trying to strong arm independent prosecutors, firing the head of the famed sdny. Im going to get into it and tell you what we learned about it. And an interview with the man who literally led that office. You wont see that anywhere else tonight. And a new York Police Officer caught on tape using a controversial chokehold. And a special video tracking how donald trump and his allies are using a trick that could be decoded and fact checked. Maybe it will help you with all your maga friends or any time youre doing political fact checking. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. We hope you find these Digital Solutions helpful to bank from almost anywhere. Deposit a check with your phone or tablet. Check balances, pay bills, and more. Send money to people you know and trust with zelle. Explore all you can do with our Digital Tools from almost anywhere. Pnc bank. Me too. Me too. And if youre a small business, were with you. 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Wherever you make go, lexus will welcome you back with exceptional offers. Get zero percent financing and make no payments for up to 90 days on all 2020 lexus models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Wayfair has way more ways exto renovate your home, from inspiration to installation. Like way more vanities perfect for you. Nice. Way more unique fixtures and tiles. Pairing. Nice. Way more top brands in sinks and faucets. Way more ways to rule your renovation. Nice on any budget, with free shipping. Wayfair. Way more than furniture. Sometimes the most Important News is not what happens all week, but its the moves the government tries to hide from you. Like a new legal scandal the Trump Administration tried to bury this past friday night. We have breaking news from the department of justice, specifically from the super important Southern District of new york. The u. S. Attorney jeff berman is out in what appears to be a friday night news dump. Indeed. A few facts here. Sdny handles some of the most pivotal investigations around. Its been run by the big names like james comey, rudy giuliani, david kelly, Preet Bharara, and that prosecutor, jeff berman, was a respected lawyer who even donated to trumps campaign. This is not some story about a clash with obama era personnel. And the stakes here are greater than some other stories about trump turning on his hires, from john bolton to impeachment witnesses. The reason is that this new york office has jurisdiction over trump. Let me repeat that. Its not true of other places in the country. This office has criminal jurisdiction over donald trump and his business, and his family, and any associates that do work for him in new york, be that Michael Cohen, who this very office sent to prison, or rudy giuliani, who was reportedly under investigation by this office. And you know who has known all of this from the jump . Donald trump. He was laser focused on sdny as soon as he won the election, even calling bermans predecessor, u. S. Attorney Preet Bharara you see right here, to trump tower for a personal meeting during the transition. The president elect asked presumably because hes a new yorker and is aware of the great work our office has done over the past seven years, asked to meet with me to discuss whether or not i would be prepared to stay on as the United States attorney to do the work as we have done it, independently the last seven years. I agreed to stay on. Without fear of favor, he meant it and apparently trump didnt like it, because he briefly kept Preet Bharara on but fired him later, after calling him on the phone, trying to cultivate a relationship, which Preet Bharara said appeared improper. This all matters right now, because its berman who replaced Preet Bharara and experts are saying trump wanted someone more loyal, but berman followed the tradition of being aggressive and independent of politics. We are aggressive, were appropriately aggressive. Thats the history of the office, and i think the public is better for it. Politics does not enter our decision when making a case. We bring a case when its ready to be brought. Berman is knockout over the weekend. And theres evidence supporting what he just said there, because the sdny has been bringing many notable cases when ready. From cases that gave the Trump Administration headaches to cases against a trump nemesis who talked about running as president , michael avenatti. I said Michael Cohen would plead the fifth, he did so yesterday. I said he would be indicted. Hes been indicted. I said hes going to roll over on the president. I dont think theres any question about that, when push comes to shove. Some liberals cheered his attacks on trump and cohen. The sdny went on to indict both cohen and avenatti. And also investigate trumps inner circle and any other big cases that came along, ranging from key banking in Foreign Policy issues to indicting Jeffrey Epstein to sex trafficking of minors, after a 2008 plea deal he received from another trump official. That caused consternation inside the administration. The office indicted two Giuliani Associates linked to the ukraine scandal. Berman referring to the ongoing cases in this clash this weekend. He didnt name them specifically, but tonight, and over the course of this period while everyone is digging into this, legal experts suggesting that the sdny probe of giuliani could have driven barrs attempt to oust berman. Others noting how the indictment of halkbank was causing strife. Taken together, that is the very probe that john bolton is now alleging trump may have tried to interfere with or tried to obstruct. The president said to erdogan at one point, look, thoet prosecutors in new york are obama people. Wait till i get my people in and well take care of this. It did feel like obstruction of justice to me. It felt like obstruction of justice to him. John bolton is saying the president committed the crime of obstruction. Thats big alone, and now you have this new energy and action around it. And that allegation brings you all back to the beginning. Remember donald trump sizing up obama appoint gee Preet Bharara, just like comey and others. He replaced him with berman, who may have looked like one of trumps people. But was he just ousted for not acting like it . This is already a huge deal for each of those reasons, which are backed by evidence. Then add to that what also went down during the friday night news dump. Attorney general barr falsely said berman was resigning. Berman said that wasnt true, and then he appeared to prove it by not resigning. And then hen some republican senators were pushing back on barrs plan to have an outsider take charge of this office that is handling all this important stuff. That was a potential violation of federal law, because the deputy is supposed to take over. Now, we can also report so much has happened since they tried to bury this on friday night, that that particular part of barrs original plan has failed. Bermans deputy will take over, keeping independent prosecutors in charge rather than the plan to get a handpicked trump ally in there at least for now. There are also reports that the senate may not confirm any new nominee for this office before the election. Thats a lot. It is so important. So lets wrap up here with a couple of questions. If this plan was on the level, why didnt barr just tell the truth about it on friday . If these prosecutors were not digging further into these key sensitive areas for trump, why did the Trump Administration pick this fight right now with Everything Else going on . And if the Trump Administration begins with an unusual clash with the one office with the power to indict trump and his allies in new york, and then fires that person, Preet Bharara, sit possible that now this clash is also about that very power . We think the answers are significant and well explore them with our expert guests when were back in just 30 seconds. Where will you go first . Wherever you may go, lexus will welcome you back with exceptional offers on exceptional vehicles. Get zero percent financing and make no payments for up to 90 days on all 2020 lexus models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Were joined now by John Flannery and melissa. Professor, having laid out the purported history, your view of this . That was quite an issue spotter you laid out. It seems like what you have laid out is whats going on, something is definitely rotten in the state of denmark. If this had been a legitimate removal for cause, it would be obvious that the attorney general would say what those causes were. Whether they were professional misconduct or incompetence. But theres no suggestion of that. In fact, it seemed like attorney general barr was willing to slot jeff berman into some other high ranking position in the doj. So it cant be that he wasnt doing his job well. It might have been he was doing his job too well. Sproz fe professor, add on that point. In the original plan, which berman says was false, that barrs announcement was false, he was offered a type of promotion or come back to main justice. So youre saying, being the expert litigator and legal expert you are, that barr cannot claim this person was good enough to be promoted to a bigger job in d. C. But bad enough that he had to go immediately if it beggars belief to suggest that you would slot this person into a really important post ahead of the civil division, while he was able to execute his role as u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york. The fact that the administration seemed willing to put in another person, who is now the head of the ftc with no prosecutorial experience suggests the issue was they didnt have the right man in the right job at the right time. John . Well, you know, i think it would be surprising to me that any u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york i think the context tells us a lot. We said on a sunday when barr had written his summary of the mueller report, which misled the nation to the findings. From that moment forward, we have the amoral trump and his corrupt mouthpiece barr working against the investigation of his president , both in terms of victimizing those who did the investigation, trying to transfer prosecutors in the case, and the most recent examples, of course, are stone and after that, of course, flynn, and now we have this instance in an office where theyre investigating cohen, his lawyer, rudy, his lawyer, the inaugural committee. We have the Deutsche Bank in that district which was his prime lender, that is trumps. And we have his statement courtesy of bolton that he spoke to erdogan and erdogan assured dont worry about those people in the Southern District, ill take care of them. [ phone ringing ] so we have a whole cornucopia of obstruction, which i plooech be this is what this is. The fire the president can fire whoever he is, but a judge cannot judge in a matter he has an interest. So you have a president choosing who his prosecutor is, and he wants to choose a guy who couldnt handle a misdemeanor case in the Southern District of new york and is just interested in holding the position. John, youre pin pointing, john, some of those key cases and the efforts to key nneecap independent system we have, and that is the foundation of the rule of law in the United States. I should say on a lighter note, i know you keep a busy home office, im surprised people dont do illegal appearance on television. But thats between you and them. Yeah, well, i think some of them do. Everybody wants your legal opinion. For both of you, before i bring in one more special guest, because this is such a big story. John, why is it important for folks who dont follow this in and out that the literal federal law requires the independent prosecutors stay in this pipeline of cases, that the president does have the Technical Authority to remove people. But unlike say white house staff, john, berman was fighting tooth and nail, he obviously its not his stiyle to clash wih his boss and call him effectively a hirliar, but to m sure the independent prosecutor stayed in, john. Well, an independent prosecutor means you just dont interfere. Its not that complicated. But trump e either out of desperation or a specific reason we dont know, he wants to look at this. As were talking this wednesday, the Judiciary Committee has two whistleblowers that will talk about how political it was in the end, and theyre hoping to have berman, and i dont know how candid he will be. I will say this as a criticism, but sometimes we feel we have a professional responsibility to, i dont know, advance at the moment. Speaking specifics is really necessary, because we have a problem in this country. As important as berman in the Southern District is, my home district originally, this is a pattern across america. Laws, judges, congress, usurping all of these things. Only a despot takes this position. It doesnt surprise us that erdogan is his best friend. I want to bring in the other guest, but theres a book part of bolton, but one of the other underlying facts, you often have complex witnesses. The question isnt whether you like them, but whether theyre adding value. I want to bring in matt miller, well versed on these issues between main justice and sdny. Good day to you, sir. Good to see you, ari. For you and then melissa. There is a part of this where you see the limits of even attorney general barrs approach. Reading from an expert, matt, who was speaking to the New York Times, as attempted power plays go, this was an abject failure and served only to undermine the credibility of the attorney general and the president. A former prosecutor who headed a key office at the fbi. Your view, matt . I think thats right. Look, one of the things we learned from this episode is, bill barr is every bit as corrupt as we thought he was, after he interfered with prosecution in the d. C. U. S. Attorneys office and his work on the mueller report. But hes slightly less competent. This suspect the first time hes interfered with an office and seen it blow up in his face. You look at the way he sp interfered with the sentencing of roger stone. And i think the reason its blowing up in his face, hes underestimating the commitment to due process by some of the career men and women at the doj. And not just them, but some of the president s appointees, jeff berman being first on that list. So i think to kind of build on what john was saying. Going forward, the house has an investigation open. I hope Jeffrey Berman comes forward and talks. But i hope some of the career people at the Southern District will come forward and talk, too. And not just to the inspector general, but to congress. The attorney general is completely blowing off any oversight. Hes refusing to turn over documents. He hasnt testified to the house once, breaking all precedents set by previous people in that position. I know its tough for people to come forward. But when the attorney general is attacking the department from within, it really is incumbent for everyone who cares about that department to step forward and let their voice be heard. I hope some of them will. Professor . I think its worth noting, and matt mentioned it, the jessie lou incident at the d. C. District when he was removed with the promise she would go on to the head of treasury. She never did get that post. But we have seen this over and over and over again. Its absolutely unprecedented. Even during the bush years, we never saw it quite like this and never saw the Justice Department having such a stake in making sure the right u. S. Attorneys were in the right place at the right time. John . Well, you know, i think that what we have here is a total breakdown of our legal system. In the sense that theres no one above these people to correct them. I was encouraged that the judiciary chair, nadler, is trying to introduce a bill to withdraw 50 million from the office of barr. Also, we lawyers have written a letter saying the i. G. Should investigate how hes handled these cases and so has nadler made a request that the i. G. And the Justice Department look into these things. These are not Strong Enough matters. Theres censure, theres subpoenas. For those people who are no longer in justice or in the administration, they should use the inherent power. In other words, they should use muscle. A poor workman blames his tool. We have the sconconstitution. We have the tools but were not using them. Theres nothing more important than the law in this nation and following the constitution and conducting it with a ghedemeano that stands across the world as a beacon of who we are, how we believe in fairness. This administration believes in none of those things. Were living in a period of time where we hear nothing about racism, we have people that do not believe in equality for all of us. And the community of this nation has shown they dont believe this. Matt miller, given your time there, do you have any view of which cases may have set this to a boil . No, i dont. Look, i think the question for me is, was there a general threat they were worried about with five months to go before the election and the u. S. Attorney who has jurisdiction over so much of the president s interest. I just worry they cant have someone independent there. Or was there a specific threat . Either one of the ones we mentioned or one we dont know about. There could be other investigations going on under the radar to which about which we have no idea. But bill barr would know about them. Right. Matt miller, melissa, john, all really important insights here. Coming up, the excuse that President Trump tries to use and the tape to show you why it doesnt work. All about lol. But first, a beat exclusive. We will have david kelly, breaking this all down when we come right back. With spray mopping to lock away debris and absorb wet messes, all in one disposable pad. Just vacuum, spray mop, and toss. The shark vacmop, a complete clean all in one pad. In so many ways. Which cage free eggs taste fresher and more delicious . Only egglands best. Which organic eggs have more vitamins and less saturated fat . Only egglands best. Better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. And get way more. Ith wso you can bring yours vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams. Spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair today. When you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. But when you have the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place. So, when you get a check. You can deposit it from here. And you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. You can save for an emergency from here. Or pay bills from here. So when someone asks you, wheres your bank . You can tell them heres my bank. Or heres my bank. Or, heres my bank. Because if you download and use the chase mobile app, your bank is virtually any place. Visit chase. Com mobile. Weve been covering the ousting of the u. S. Attorney in new york and joined by a former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, david kelly led that office, a position once also held by rudy giuliani, james comey, Preet Bharara, as well as now on the lower right jeff berman two, like david, is a former u. S. Attorney for sdny. I should mention, my former bossinlaw. Good to see you. Nice to see you, ari. We have discussed this office and mr. Berman before. We discussed the ousting of Preet Bharara and here we are again, discuss thing regarding mr. Berman. First, have you had any communication with him recently . I havent. I have not, not since this happened, no. When is the last time you did have communication . Oh, i dont know, sometime in the last probably right before the pandemic. Yeah. So you guys talk. You know him. And i hope you dont mind me starting the interview out like a deposition. Thats what you taught me. I havent been in a deposition lately, so fire away. So unlike most americans, you do have contact with her we amr, you ran that office. On a skalt cale of zero to ten scandal off the level, how do you view based on whats happened with the public information. Somewhere between 10 and 12. The best Case Scenario for doj is to say that this looks really bad. The worst Case Scenario is exactly what it looks like, which is trying to subvert the independence of the Southern District. Wow. Thats big. I mean, as you know, there are times where a tie goes to the runner, president s pick their team, but so much has gone down with this office. Do you think there are cases, publicly known or not, that were in the mines of barr or trump on this move . Because that would look like meddling, or as john bolton put it, a former trump aide, a potential obstruction of justice . Yeah, look, i think i was kind of with matt from the last segment, which is to say i would be surprised if it was directed at any particular case. I just think that at this juncture, the fact that they have someone in there who is independent is not what they want. They would rather have somebody who is more beholden to the administration, somebody they can keep an eye on. Thats why they were initially planning to put in the u. S. Attorney from new jersey as the acting, which is mind boggling. But not because theres anything wrong with the u. S. Attorney in new jersey, but it would have been unprecedented to have somebody come in from another office to run the Southern District, particularly under these circumstances. So you are joining some of the other experts who said there are tells here. That even if you try to take a benign reading of it, the fact that there was a clash over the accuracy over barrs initial plan, the fact that rather than putting any qualified person in, including the deputy, they said oh, well take another person from a busy office and double their workload, that tells us what, in your view . To say it was handled ham handedly would be giving it a compliment. What is does that tell you about bill barr at this point . Look, im not quite sure i mean, this is just one in a series of the continuing where i think by most former federal prosecutors, that the Justice Department has become politicized. That it is not untouchable from the executive branches it once was. And thats a sad day. Understood. I know that means a lot for you, because youve served as many of your colleagues have in both parties, youre not about coming around and picking fights with a particular attorney general. Final question, giuliani responding. Lets see what hes saying. If theyre investigating me, theyre doing it in the most su surrunty shouse way possible and basically suggested, you know, im upset theyre giving away this information. He says i have nothing against berman, but i would like him to clarify what the hell is going on. Giuliani feeling berman, if there was a probe touching giuliani, that berman was doing potentially something wrong there. I dont know what hes pointing to that berman is doing wrong. It wasnt berman coming out and talking about the giuliani speculation, others were speculating where the attorney general made the move he did. So i dont think theres anything there. And, you know, im not quite sure what we can take from what mr. Giuliani says about anything these days. Understood. And finally, ill mention to viewers, you have a role as representing another former sdny chief, james comey. There has been a lot of noise out of doj about those issues, which i think take on a different cast, seeing how this is going. And whether any retread of the russia probe or other things are going to happen, are they going to happen by november . Whats your view on all of that, or is the quiet on that suggest that theres no there there . Well, certainly, look, by many accounts, john durham is actively under way. Somewhat exactly hes doing is a lot of people are guessing. But its kind of, you know, you have the inspector again look at this and said that people acted appropriately. Youve had the Senate Committee come out and do investigations saying no one did anything wrong, and what the Justice Department is going to go in and find that those others did not remains to be seen. But you do have to kind of wonder what the motive is, and mr. Giuliani was talking about berman releasing details about the investigation of giuliani, but frankly, if you really want to talk about those standards, you look at what the attorney general has been saying about durhams investigation and the suggestion about the indictment of or the people who are, you know, very familiar who are going to have a problem when this investigation concludes. So its troubling. Understood. And i know you pick your words carefully, so appreciate all the legal insights on this. David kelly, former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, good to see you. Thank you. Up ahead, the white house saying donald trump was only joking about stepping in on the covid testing. We have Something Special to show you that you may want to see and how it basically puts this joke defense in context. Thats next. Now more than ever, you need technology you can rely on. And people you can rely on. Im a Dell Technologies advisor. Me too. Me too. Me too. And if youre a small business, were with you. We are with you. Were with you. We want to help. So well be right here. At home. Answering your calls. Providing support. And standing by you every step of the way. Bye bye. Wherever you make go, lexus will welcome you back with exceptional offers. Get zero percent financing and make no payments for up to 90 days on all 2020 lexus models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Experience amazing its just that its. Lavender, yes it is. Old spice, its for men. But i like the smell of it. [music playing] there areand the best. S. Which egg tastes more farmfresh and delicious . Only egglands best. With more vitamins d and e and 25 less saturated fat . Only egglands best. 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Youre going to find more cases. So, i said to my people, slow the testing down, please. Trump said that in public. Everyone heard it. So, how would trumps aides try to clean this up, because it was too far even for them . Theyre not doubling down. Theyre not saying it was the right thing or true. Theyre now claiming that it was some kind of joke. You know, it was tongue in cheek. Did the president some con now. That was tongue in cheek. Please. I dont know that it was tongue in cheek at all. Did you ask to slow it down . If it did slow down, frankly, i think were way ahead of ourselves if you want to know the truth. Weve done too good a job. Theres a pattern here, and its important, especially heading into a contested and furiously intense campaign and election. Donald trump will make completely outrageous comments, so far even for him, the man who claims he never apologizes, that his people need to walk it back somehow. And so, time and time again, they settle on trying to argue that it was all just a joke. Russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. Clearly, the president was making a joke. When you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just see them thrown in, rough, i said, please dont be too nice. I believe he was making a joke at the time. China should start an investigation into the bidens. I doubt if the china comment was serious, to tell you the truth. Thats not a real request. Then i see the disinfectant. Is there a way we can do Something Like that, by injection . I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you, just to see what would happen. No. And you need to keep this in mind every time this arises. President trump was dead serious about seeking foreign help from russia, from ukraine, from china, according to john boltons new allegations just this weekend. If the punchline of your joke is a secret plot to abuse power that many experts say is literally impeachable, that is not a joke. L. O. L. When we come back, outcry over an apparent chokehold caught on tape. An important story after this. When managing diabetes you cant always stop for a fingerstick. With the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you dont have to. With a painless, onesecond scan you can check your glucose with a smart phone or reader so you can stay in the moment. No matter where you are or what youre doing. Ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. You can do it without fingersticks. Learn more at freestylelibre. Us. Im szasz. [norm] and we live in columbia, missouri. We do consulting, but we also write. [szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; its important. We walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. Weve both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. 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Try wayfair oh, ok. Its going to help you, with all of. This yeah, here you go. Thank you oh, i like that one [ laugh ] thats a lot of storage perfect. Youre welcome i love it. How did you do all this . Wayfair speaking of dinner, whatre we eating, guys . The nypd is responding to reports of this new apparent chokehold that was caught on tape, and theyre suspending the officer in the incident. This happened sunday morning in queens in new york city. Officers tackling 35yearold ricky to the ground and as we always say, a warning on these type of videos. The thing youre about to see is difficult to watch. Stop choking him, bro. Hes choking him. Let him go, bro. Hes out, hes out. Bellvue was brought to a hospital. Now his lawyer is saying he suffered injuries to the head and wrist. The Police Commissioner is already acknowledging, and this is a contrast, that the incident, the clip of which you just saw was, quote, disturbing and an internal investigation has already begun. We wanted to bring you an update on that story. Were out of time. Thanks for watching the beat. Well be back tomorrow night at 6 00 p. M. Good evening from new york. President trump is reportedly furious over what he sees as a disappointing turnout at his tulsa rally this weekend. Trump had predicted that there wouldnt be an empty seat in the house but rows of seat went largely unfilled in the venues upper levels. According to the tulsa fire marshal, there were fewer than 6,200 in attendance. Thats about a third of the