earlier saying he didn't have the facts straight. >> rudy is a great guy and just started a day ago and he is going to issue a statement. he knows it is a witch hunt. he started yesterday and he'll get his facts straight. he's a great guy. >> he says it had nothing to do with the president's knowledge or understanding of the matters. trying to clean up this mess. >> imagine if that came out on october 15, 2016 in the middle of the last debate. cohen made it go away. he did its job. >> imagine if it came out at that time. that's one of the issues under investigation. what was the motivation and did the timing of the campaign have something to do it. now it looks like proof that it was about the campaign. the correction does not correct giuliani's biggest revelation what is important about this. that donald trump despite many statements and denials now looks to be lies was behind the hush money payment to this adult film actress. look at this headline wednesday night. trump acknowledges porn actress payoff from the "new york times." trump standing by his story and claimed it never changed. >> we're not changing any stories. >> you said that you did not about the payments? >> you take a look at what i said. you go back and take a look -- >> you said no when i asked you. >> you go back and take a look. >> you go back and take a look. okay. here it is. >> do you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels. >> you'll have to ask my attorney. >> -- >> no i don't know. >> so. that was what he said which is totally contradicted by the new defense and then factor in rudy giuliani's comment from wednesday that still stands. >> having something to do with paying some stormy daniels woman which is going to be perfectly legal. the president repaid it. >> i didn't know that. he did? >> did you know that the president didn't know about it? >> he didn't know about the specifics of it as far as i know but the general arrangement that michael takes care of things like this. >> he didn't know about the specifics of it. tonight it is rudy giuliani struggling with the specifics. that is according to rudy giuliani. and a lawyer as well -- joyce, what do you make of the nondenial of this nonclarifying clarification? >> so the end of the day, rudy can characterize these events and payments however he wants to. it is not a criminal violation. but it doesn't really matter to the investigators in the southern district of new york. they will look at the facts and make a decision about whether it is a criminal campaign finance violation or something regulatory they should send to their colleagues at the federal election commission for regulatory which is not at criminal or a follow up. this effort to characterize it and recharacterize it or change the facts really comes to nothing. the facts are baked in and already happened. investigators will track it down and it will end up being a side show. >> it goes to the endless assault of veracity, aka lying all the time that characterizes the people who work for trump. we don't want to let it go. michael cohen is trump's lawyer and david schwartz is michael cohen's lawyer and he went out and stated the opposite which is how we know several people are lying. >> you are claiming that michael cohen never told donald trump about it. >> never told him. >> and he dispensed his own money and never sought reimbursement. >> is closer to zero by their own admissions. >> i'm reminded of that line from the marks brother who are you go i think to believe, me or your own eyes. the video evidence of them lying and lying and lying is funny. it is not really funny to see this assault on the truth and rule of law that it undergourds. it may turn out that it may not ultimately be as big as we see them right now. i've wondered about. i will note, i read a tweet yesterday explaining the section of the federal election law that shows this is a clear violation and the tweet came from george conway, kellyanne conway's husband. the degree to which people are lying and tap dancing to try to deny this thing makes you wonder what else there is there. was there structure you aring of the -- structuring to regulators. there may be more here -- >> is anything sexier than a campaign violation. >> but a later lie might. we reported on this show why it is unlikely that this was a campaign donation would ensnare these people. lying to a bank is a biggie. i want to play for you another portion of the fox news empire. here is neil, long time loyal fox anchor putting out his criticism about this. >> let me be clear mr. president how can you drain the swamp if you are muddying the waters. your base doesn't care but you should. you have been too busy draining the swamp to stop and smell the stink you are creating. that is your doing and your stink, mr. president, that's your swamp. >> what does that tell you about the political side and the fox media side of this too much for them? >> i hope they didn't let murdoch find out that they discovered journalism over there. it made me see rudy floundering on sean hannity's show. in 1993 i was a newly appointed editorial for the new york -- "new york times" and my colleagues and i decided we could not appoint him because he was over zealous. so i remember him when he was successful. it's scary to think about him in this feeble state it seems to me advising a president who is frantic and unstable to begin with. so i think it's -- it defies description to try to figure out who to choose between trump and rudy aspect more dangerous -- it does not seem that rudy giuliani and his public performance. does not seem that he has full mastery of what is happening and how to execute on it. >> perhaps, the most headlined statement that came out of a former u.s. attorney's mouth in the course of this week's event when he called the fbi agents who were working in the southern district of new york. storm troopers. he worked with and alongside. that was a shocking thing to hear coming out of his mouth and consistent with the strategic missteps. he has done nothing to move the president from criminal danger and nothing to clarify the story. if anything, he made a more difficult path forward for the lawyers who will work with him and come behind him and clean up this week's disarray. >> i want to turn to you for a more difficult question, we know from your law and service and journalism, you are good at this. the negative space in the painting. the thing that is not happening. we are told would happen because the christian right and the conservative values organizations and the evan generally call right cared deeply about the behaviors of the politician and the president. what might be amidst of all of this super drama, the president now has admitted to paying this money in direct connection to the allegations of this extra mar marital affair and why are we not hearing outrage affiliated with donald trump and the republican party. >> i was thinking about that today, as an alabamian i remember a small group of people in the alabama, the black preachers of the state willing to say that the south's government were immoral and unconstitutional. the entire white church of the south was silenced not to mention the politicians and the business community. what i'm not hearing is any statement of outrage. where are the preachers of america when morality is at the center of our national life? and i think director comey was correct today on cbs when he said this is about values and supporting our institutions and it is imperative that americans who believe in the normal political process and the rule of law start speaking out. that's what's missing in the picture to me. >> michael. >> and i would say in addition to asking where are the preacher and where are the lawyers? respect for the rule of law -- >> i see the lawyers all over the place. >> where are the lawyers that aren't on somebody's payroll speaking out about the basic issues that we have a rule of law and you had donald trump today going before the nra trying to change the subject from the stormy daniels/michael cohen issue by attacking robert mueller to the nra to cheers. this is a degradation which has become a political fight. as if it is already in the arena of fighting over impeachment and votes in congress. we need to remember on the russia matter and what the fundamental deep issues are at stake here. this is not just a dramatic, if over written script, this is about what our constitution and rule of law stands for. >> right. how does the script end? that is to the points each of you are making tonight. that is up to us to figure out where the lines are and joyce speaking about the storm trooper comment coming from somebody who was protected by those people physically with guns. michael speaking about the people who defend our institutions and ethics. thank you for kicking off the show. lee and joyce stay with me. trump tackling this other issue in the legal ♪ mr. west take a seat ♪ no matter how much money you have ♪ you are watching "the beat" on msnbc. nd. nd. that sounds super helpful. how much is it? well, if you have a discover card, it's free. no way! yes way! we just think it's important for you to be in the know. all right! hey... ewww! everything ok? being in the know is very good. yeah, it is. ooo don't shake! don't shake! ahhh! know if your social security number is found on risky sites. free from discover. ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ transitions™ you ok there, kurt? 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[ cheering ] what up, dog? show me top artist. unbelieveable. i've got my whole family up here. look at my dad looking all sharp. with just the sound of your voice, xfinity x1 gives you a front row seat to the billboard music awards, including throwback clips from some of your favorite artists. the 2018 billboard music awards, sunday, may 20th. only on nbc. donald trump not only under cutting his own lawyers on stormy daniels and doing a similar thing when it comes to a big legal question whether he will ever talk to mueller. >> i would love to speak to him. nobody wants to speak more than me. against my lawyers, most say never speak. i would love to speak. we've done nothing wrong. if i thought it was fair, i would override my lawyers. >> trump saying he would override his lawyer ifs it was fair. consider last night, giuliani would not say whether trump wanted to do this interview. keeping a closed mouth and open mind, hours before trump opened his mouth. >> i have to find we are going to be treated fairly. everybody seeing it now and it is a pure witch hunt. we have all of these investigators and they are democrats. bob mueller worked for obama for eight years. >> he was under him for about five years and 7 years under george bush. i'm joined with federal prosecutors. it would seem you have a potentially legitimate legal strategy. i would give these lawyers at the white house credit as i would any set of lawyers to try to use what leverage they have which is the prospect of the interview while negotiating the terms. that is standard. they don't have a client that will briefly pretend that they will go along with the strategy. >> president trump said he would override his lawyers if he deemed bob mueller would be fair. this is the same president who called bob mueller and his team of prosecutors, labeled them a witch hunt. openly stating that bob mueller would be fair is about as good as -- he is going to pin the blame on lawyers when and if this interview does not come to pass. look, i wanted to do this on advice of counsel is and my advisers we're not going to go forward with it. we saw something similar. he wanted to pull all troops out of syria tomorrow and then literal, almost the next day saying i talked to the military and my generals, can't do it. he pinned the brlame on the military just like he will i suspect pin the blame on his lawyers in this case. >> i don't know few saw two people who pretend they want to fight and they say hold me back and never get into the fight. have you seen that happen? >> all the time. >> it seems so be that aspect of donald trump. he is like he has this -- but none of ability or real intention to do it. is that a fair assessment? >> i think it is a fair assessment and a good moment to step back and think about what it really means. if instead the president of the united states was a bank robber or drug dealer and said i'm not going to comply with the demands of the criminal justice system because i don't think the prosecutors were fair, everybody would laugh and he would get his day in court and have an opportunity to prove his innocence and lack of guilt. he would have to participate in the system like every other defendant. here, for the president to engage in this kind of rhetoric is a plant the flag saying he is above the rule of law and doesn't have to be treated like everyone else. ivanka couldn't be interviewed, the american people wouldn't stand for it. just like everybody else is underinvestigation, the president has to submit with lawful demands. he doesn't have to go in for an interview. but he would have to comply with a grand jury subpoena if one were issued. >> finally on that, what do you think of this idea that if ivanka is both a high-level government employee and just a daughter and rudy thinks they decide which day she is a daughter on. >> both of those things are facts. when it comes to legal protection or liability, she is a senior adviser to the president and a public official. her father knew this when he appointed her. she should have known this when accepting the position. she can't enjoy the benefits of government service with none of the draw backs. there shouldn't be these draw backs. most senior advisers of the president are not hauled to a grand jury and subpoenaed. in this case, this is not most administrations and we could see one or both in this case. ned and joyce, thank you. next, we will talk about what prosecutors were talking about in court today beginning after paul manaforts money trail. the long time trump adviser, roger stone f. and later apartment deals at a major trump property. 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>> it is hard to figure out what roger stone did or did not do. given us so many different versions. during the campaign, he claimed he was in touch with wikileaks while getting stolen information from the russians and disseminating it. he was providing cover to the russian operation. out there talking to -- 2.0, the internet russian persona in the e-mails of 2016 and while doing that, he was writing pieces and going on alex joens and saying they have nothing to do with the russians. whether or not that's a criminal matter for robert mueller, it is an act of cooperating, collusion with the enemy to cover what they were doing. he provided support to russia. >> so you are raising three important points i'm going to turn to morgan with. number one, there is bad stuff for american democracy that might not be a felony it is hard to know when roger is doing something he said he's doing because he is all over the place morgan and you're the expert here. you had the experience with roger when l.l. cool j documented about the lies are told. >> it is becoming suspicious that roger hasn't been called in by mueller yet. one of his proed jays was called in michael ka pew toe and has been a driver and in turn/assistant and prodige. and in association with all of the people around rob skpert his or bit. haven't reached him yet. leaving me to believe that they have a strong case as bullet proof and insightful questions to ask when roger gets into the hot seat. >> or as we covered, people who are last o are getting tough questions or might never get interviewed because they get indicted. i want to play for you discussion this. normal people will be excused for not remembering or knowing that there was a lobbying firm that has manafort, black and stone and gates. take a look. >> trying to use our relationships that we built up through young republican and to create a business that would focus on political consultant. >> what we provide for our clients, foreign countries or corporations or individuals is superior understanding of how washington works. >> i ask you on this friday, evening, was black manafort in stone the s? >> as this film wonderfully described, they were the first to monetize their service on political campaigns and trade on that access and become lobbyist and revolution nice the representation of foreign governments in washington and they made a lot of money doing it and did it for many years and they are a fascinating firm to look at. >> speak while we have you to what we saw in court today. this was tough for questioning about who should take this case. >> it was a remarkable hearing. it was supposed to be a routine hearing. but the republican pointed judge tsl is teed off on the whole thing. he may end up ruling with the government in the end. you have been inside of courtrooms. he did raise fundamental questions about the bank fraud charges against paul manafort relate to the question about russian conclusion and asked how it could be that the justice department previously investigated and now the mueller team says it arose from the investigation. the lawyers responded that paul manafort was a key figure and followed the money and these are the crimes they found in terms of money laundering and bank fraud. the mueller team didn't want to admit this in court. >> you have the ability to squeeze people, the jurisdictional question is more narrow. should it go to another office and mueller shows when he thinks it is warranted, he did it. and the other amazing thing, i'm holding up this now, infamous redacted memo, the judge was asking david to get then redacted version of this and i'm sure spu everyone in the case would love this. the judge has a better argument than the rest of us. this is the redacted secret authorization that rosenstein gave mueller to go after extra stuff. it is a black box. >> the judge was suspicious of bob mueller office. everything redacted is unrelated to the manafort prosecution. when we filed the document earlier that portion of the document. he seemed to suggest that he thought something was going on. we would like to see it to get the full scope of the investigation. on the manafort point, i covered these guys 30 years ago. they made millions of dollars, manafort, stone, black and gates by representing foreign thugs and dictators. whether it was marcos and the phil philippines that was one of their go-to specialties. the corrupt politician president of ukraine leading to the problems he has today. >> you mention that and you think about the infamous report they got a law firm to write that became a probe to discredit -- i guess we will fit in a break although there is more to discuss. excellent panel and insights, thank you all. the rnc meeting, any guesses where it is going to be held. we are going to go inside of the money. who is falling back tonight, i will tell you with very special guests in ninety-seconds. e-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling. jackpot. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. so get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem... ...like me. mayhem is everywhere. are you in good hands? it's friday on "the beat" it is time to fall back. we have a very special panel. karen hunter and a pulitzer prize winning journalist. he was on celebrity big brother withal ma rosa who can forget that. and chica, recently she took on kanye west praise with donald trump with a rebuttal. >> that video has gotten well over 6 million views and recognition from a lot of dig names. welcome. this is a good one. in my personal opinion. chica i was one of the many people that watched what you put up and so many viewers on the beat that felt you made important points. flagging that video in the way you took on what kanye said and i want to go to you here who is your fall back this week. >> of course, i have to say my fall back has to be kanye. we thought he would lighten up after last week and that is not the case. he went on tmz and decided to show his behind and told everyone that slavery was a choice and he thinks everything he is doing under the free thinking. i think he should be more responsible with the fact that he has such a large platform and his words hold so much weight to so many people and we have to live with the consequences of what he says even though he doesn't have to. >> karen, do you want to speak to that? >> i'm not go i think to mess with ms. chika. no, she said everything that needed to be said regarding kanye, drop that mic. >> it was clearly dropped. people saw what you said and i would say as anyone who wants to give artists perhaps any artist the benefit of the doubt given the series of things kanye has been saying. it leaves the mind-set no place left with him. karen, who is your fall back? >> i'm sad to say this on public mainstream television, but it is camille cosby. the reference to a 14-year-old boy visiting his relatives, 1955 dragged if his bed 3:00 in the morning for -- knowing he did nothing. what is happening to cosby, a man of great privilege and a man joked about under oath in a deposition admitting to drugging women. what is happening to him is karma. to make the comparison to a lynching of him with the statement kind of undermines her complicity in his behavior. so that's all i'll say about that. >> it's strong and it is an important piece when you think about a lot of what we have been processing coming out of that cosby verdict. there's a saying of a hard turn. >> i know a hard turn and luckily i can make one. >> we are talking about serious issues here. kim jong-un is a serious issue, my issue with him is not serious. i think he needs to fall back with the mono tone one pantsuit. you have a meeting coming up and make a statement when you are making a statement. give me a% print or a polka -- is it too much to ask? a splash of color. >> maybe a scarf. >> a little something, i don't know. >> kim jong-un walks up with that you are welcome. >> let me push you on this t. we ask follow up questions. in these hard hitting news segments. didn't cocoa chanel say only remove one accessory -- >> who knew i would be on your show and you would be quoting cocoa chanel. >> don't box me, brother don't box me. >> i will give you mine, mine is look at this headline. a veterinarian charged with smuggling heroin inside of puppies. this is now a federal narcotics charge. little liquid bags of heroin. i'm telling the veterinarian to fall way back. there is something extra messed up doing that to puppies. >> do you have any other fall backs. >> rachel dolezal. >> she was given a netflix show and it is ridiculous that we reward her with ways -- >> she was one of the best naacp heads in washington, she did the work. she taught plaque women about her hair, why are you trolling her. >> she needs to stop going to butte supp beauty supply stores. she needs to fall back with the bronzer. it doesn't need to be netflix, maybe youtube. it is definitely a little strange for he to have a show. >> what about sound cloud for her? >> i don't think that platform -- sound cloud has been through enough. they almost went bankrupt. i use that platform and i would love -- >> ross, final thought? >> finaling thoug thought. there is roseanne, will and grace, full house. i love this. can i ask hollywooded to have a new idea? i watch them all, i love pop culture. i don't like this trend of do it over again. you are better than that. let's think of something brand in you and wow everybody. they are bringing back murphy brown. >> a little diversity is not a bad idea. >> we have ideas all day. >> the only thing i have to say is i wish i was there in person with each of you. this is a tremendous fall back day -- >> what about rudy giuliani? >> we'll get you back. thank you to each of you. we have one more big thing when we come right back. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. never owned a business.e term "small business," there's nothing small about it. are your hours small? 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