Heres a message that was lost in translation. The white house people are sort of telling us, look, kelly called him, kelly gave him a heads up. The state department is ketelli us that tillerson didnt get that message. I think tillerson thought he had been here before, he would weather this storm. Youre going to get a detatwd is part of the job duties of the chief staff today. And tillerson pushed back, and tillerson chose to speak up on substance as well and how the Trump Administration must counter what he calls russias troubling behavior. Much work remains to respond to the troubling behavior and actions on the part of the russian government. Russia must assess carefully as to how its actions are in the best interests of the russian people and of the world more broadly. Continuing on their current trajectory is likely to lead to greater isolation on their part. That was big today and it comes a day after tillerson took a harder line than trump, saying the poison that was used on this former spy on the uk came from russia and should trigger a response. As for the replacement, its cia director mike pompeo, hes also been a subject in this russia probe. In january, we learned that muellers team interviewed him. He had been in a meeting where he asked for help pressuring jim comey to drop the russia investigation. And he was then a very peripheral witness to the firing of jim comey. His own agency had to correct him after he was perceived as downplaying the entire impact of russian meddling. The intelligence communitys assessment is that the russian meddling that took place did not affect the outcome of the election. That wasnt quite right. They didnt say that if the russians had an impact, the election would go one way or the other, the cia clarified their directors remarks. Also moving forward tonight, the judge in the case overseeing charges against Paul Manafort says he is now a flight risk because he faces, quote, the very real possibility of spending the rest of his life in prison. All of this unusual staffing is coming at a time where you have one situation that is more normal. This would happen, i think, probably at most workplaces, if you let it be known in public, you think your boss is a, quote, moron, youre not going to have a lot of job security. Can you address the main headline of this story that you called the president a moron and if not, where do you think these reports are im not going to deal with petty stuff like that. Im joined by bill richardson, a former u. S. Ambassador, michael mcphaul, and katty kay, reporter bbc world news america. And these are the kind of titles i can only dream of in global diplomacy. Let me ask one big question and go in order, starting with katty kay, what is important about both how these staffing changes came about and what they will do to u. S. Policy in the world . I think whats important in terms of americas relationships with both its allies and its adversaries, is that this sense of chaos in the white house, throws this white house off balance. They dont know how to deal with this white house and this kind of chaos is just a part of that, the thing that will change now is whether mike pompeo in lock step in a way that Rex Tillerson simply wasnt, makes American Foreign policy more hawkish on the key issue of iran, potentially, potentially on north korea and it does seem that mike pompeo is more hawkish on russia than Rex Tillerson, than the president has been recently, so well see if that changes too. Evelyn . I would say the first thing, ari, is the way this happened is highly unconstructive and it didnt need to come down this way, just suddenly firing tillerson out of the blue means a lot of people around the world are trying to figure out what to do. I spoke to a japanese minister who said his foreign minister is coming to town on friday. If you had a normal process, you would have a phase in, phase out, and you could deal with problems like that much more quickly and rationally. And the other thing, of course, is for the japanese, theyre trying to figure out how they figure into this u. S. North korea bilateral negotiation which may or may not occur in may. Michael . On the style, this is incredibly undignified, of course, to be fired by a tweet. And just to remind everybody, secretary tillerson is not on twitter. He was just here at stanford and told us all he did not have a twitter account. I cant tell you how much time i waste on twitter. You and i both. On the substance, two things, secretary tillerson and secretary mattis did a lot of business together in checking some of the more impulsive ideas that came from the president. How does that balance of power within the administration now change . Well have to wait and see, but i think it will change, on the big substantive thing, lets all remember the policy we were just talking about five days ago, President Trump has Just Launched the most important Diplomatic Initiative maybe in decades with the north koreans and in midstream, hes out changing his team, his lead diplomatic person, he just changed and mr. Pompeo may have a lot of experience with the substance, he has almost zero experience with diplomacy. And he goes into the super bowl, he just changes the quarterback. And a quarterback that has more experience than almost anybody in negotiating things at a high level is bill richardson. So bill, speak to the ambassadors point. I will put out of course what the white house has argued in rebuttal, which is precisely because youre heading towards high level goals in north korea and elsewhere, that you need a secretary of state who has the confidence of the president and the way it degraded. Your view of that and whats on the horizon in north korea, generally, sir . Well, my concern is the unceremonious way the secretary of state was ousted. Not just on policy, but it was obvious that they didnt have a personal chemistry. My concern is north korea. And iran. The president has to decide may 12, whether he keeps the iran nuclear deal, i hope he does, because it is related to north korea. I think if he cancelled the iran nuclear deal, some are going to say, can we trust the president if policy changes with new administrations . But with north korea, i would hope the administration considers delaying the summit a month or so. Because pompeo, the secretary of state to be, he needs to be confirmed, he needs to be gotten up to speed. Hes a smart man, he doesnt know the Foreign Service, Foreign Policy, diplomacy. I hope he does change secretary tillersons policies so that our ambassadors come back, our Foreign Service people come back, people like ambassador ambassador mcphaul. Im not saying he should come back, its up to him. But the career people that are essential in this new policy towards north korea, to prepare a coherent strategy that we dont have north korea. Those are my worries. I dont want to make light. But i will, ambassador mcphaul is on tv a lot. We didnt write these rules, but they do exist. I will show you a side by side that producers at the beat put together that is fairly devastating about how the way the Trump Administration is dealing with the accumulating evidence about this hit, this potential assassination regarding russia. Take a listen. Were going to be speaking with the british today, were speaking with teresa may today, and as soon as we get the facts straight, if we agree with them, we will condemn rush is that or whoever it may be. The government has concluded that it is highly likely that russia was responsible. Either this was a direct act by the russian state against our country, or the russian government lost control of its potentially catastrophic nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others. Michael, what do you see in that contrast . Even the Prime Minister was offering up some wiggle room. They lost control of their nerve agents . Thats inconceivable to me, but she at least had some wiggle room, but she was pretty defiant and obvious that this was the russian government that carried out this assassination attempt, if were being generous, terrorist attack if were not. President trump was not quite ready to go that far. Evelyn, theres so much news coming out here, i want to bounce over to the cia issues, because of the vacancy and the new cia leader, she famously ran this black site in thailand, the waterboarding that occurred 83 times against one person. And also report dledly worked w the plot, to destroy the videos that were made of that plot. Were starting to get to the bottom of those detainees in the bush era. So for the first time, a woman running the cia, thats great, and shes clearly done her service, but also what many see as a blot on that record. Right, ari, i was working up in the senate during that time period, i think there are a couple of Additional Data points that have come out. Apparently according to one of the papers, Dianne Feinstein had blocked gina haskell at some point during the trump tenure, but she was supposed to be promoted to the head of the Clandestine Service i believe, and she was blocked in the senate. And then today, senator mccain tweeted out, saying i hope she gets a close look. And i do think, i mean, that is an era, that is a time period where there were a lot of mixed feelings, because there were lying agents in the cia who were told to do things that were later found to be illegal. Now whether she was considered a line agent or not, is obviously up to your perspective on it. But certainly she should answer questions in closed and then in open hearings. And i think that goes to what the hearings have to accomplish which is important. I want all of you to stay with me, joining the beat tonight, an nbc news special correspondent tom breaokaw who s following this news, mr. Brokaw, your view of what this means and why several diplomatic guests have mentioned tonight it seems so unusual and unceremonious. I have a what may be a contrary point of view. There may be some coherence now for what passes for Foreign Policy in this administration, because for some time, dating back to the secretary of state called the president a moron, theres obviously not been a relationship there. The secretary of state the other day was talking about how we were going to try to work out a relationship and an approach to north korea, at the same time the president was talking about, yeah, im ready to go. I have been talking to folks who know mike pompeo well, and with all due respect to ambassador richardson, i think hes up to speed more than a lot of people realize. He had three terms in congress, hes been keeping track of whats going on, i heard him in a press conference last summer. He seems to be well read in on the conditioni of the world and he shares a lot of the president s views on iran, for example, hes very, very tough on that, hes very tough on terrorism as well. I think most of all, we just have to wait and see how this is going to play out. It could not be more chaotic, i dont think, than it happen. Rex tillerson was, to many of his friends and admirers a disappointment because he did not real will go in and organize the white house and take full advantage of it. He was going off in one direction, and the president in another. Well, tom, you raise such an important point about this role, the secretary of state and the white house spokesperson are two jobs that have a lot more to do with your ongoing relationship with the president than with anything you may know or be good at. Because either you credibly speak for the president or you dont. So does this, in your view give a chance for at least a fresh start or a type of synergy around americas message in the world, even if its one that remains controversial . Reporter well, you got to remember, he is the president of the United States, he is the vicker of our Foreign Policy, and he wants somebody at his side who shares his view. Mike pompeo does have a pretty strong record, not just that he was number one in his class at west point, he had three terms in the congress of the United States. He was a member of the tea party, he was a gregarious figure who has a lot of friends who are on the conservative side and he is ambitious. We may have more coherence, whether you like coherence or not as a result of this appointment. I think we all have to wait and see. There was a much higher expectation, for as youll remember, for the secretary of state who is now on his way back to texas, no question about that. Than what he was able to deliver. Because he didnt seem to have much high regard for the Foreign Policy establishment in the United States over on e. Street at the state department. The question is what happens next, what happens with the National Security advisor, for example, what kind of a system do we have in place for making these big decisions. Tom brokaw urging a little patience and a little context, as always, sir, my panel, thanks to you as well. Adam schiff speaking live right now about the conclusion of the house. Continue our work. There are individual who is want to cooperate with our committee and share information and will continue to do so. We will be putting together a report that will set out for the country what evidence we have seen to date, what evidence we have seen in terms of the russian hacking and dumping operation, what evidence we have seen in terms of the russian social Media Campaign, their paid Media Campaign and their collusion with the Trump Campaign. There is significant evidence, much of it in the Public Domain on collusion. And the meeting at trump tower with popadopoulos, with the president s son and soninlaw. A the runup to that meeting that this was part of the russian governments effort to help President Trump by providing derogatory information on hillary clinton. And the National Security advisor mike flynn had with the ambassador to under mine the Foreign Policy of the United States. That he lied about. That Administration Officials were evidently aware of. The Vice President misrepresented unknowingly to the country, all of that bears on the issue of collusion. There are other facts outside of the Public Domain, and of course one of the most important parts of an investigation is putting the pieces together. But still, there is work to be done on that issue and others, work we have not been allowed to do. Our committee for example has not even interviewed george popadopoulos, but there were witnesses that were involved or knowledgeable about the trump tower meeting that have not been brought before our committee, there are Text Messages we have not sought to subpoena. We are releasing this evening a 22page status report on the investigation that sets out some of the key witnesses that the majority has been unwilling to bring in, the key committees that have been stone walled on we questions. So we can see just how from an early point in the investigation, the chairman made it clear that his mission was not to find out what the but to put the government on trial. That problem persisted throughout our investigation. And has led to its premature conclusion last night. But the work is too important to leave undone. In particular, the American People need to know whether the russians still have something they can hold over the president s head. The president of the United States. So our work is far from done. And we will be submitting to the public a detailed account of what we have learned to date and the work that has to be done if not by us then by others so that the country can be sure that its administration is acting in the best interests of the country and not because of leverage the russians may have over the president of the United States. And i would invite my colleagues to share their thoughts as well. We have been listening to congressman adam schiff, thats congressman adam schiff who just made news, making it official, criticizing his republican colleagues but going further to say that the House Democrats will put out their own house Intelligence Report on the russian probe. Some have expected that, given all the rancor on the committee. Theyre done interviews witnesses and they have their own findings of no collusion. I want to bring back ambassador mcphaul on the issue of no collusion. I aclaupplaud that theyre g to do that so that the rest of us, including academics like us can use the material to write our own reports. But this is a tragedy, this is a real tragedy that we did not have a bipartisan independent commission to explore everything that happened in 2016, not just collusion, of what the russians did, of what the Internet Companies did in relation to the russians, what the Russian Media companies did and then provide policy prescriptions, thats what we needed, thats what we didnt get from this committee. I want to remind your listeners and your viewers, thats not bob muellers assignment either. So were not going to have the policy response to how do we defend our elections and that to me is a real tragedy. Mueller has a much narrower scope of the crimes committed, where is the congress on a nonpartisan or a bipartisan basis, and the democrat on the committee telling us, breaking news a moment ago, theyre going to go ahead separately, with two separate reports. Thanks for being on the beat. We have more coming up, does donald trump have twitter fingers . Why doesnt he fire people in person. And new reports on roger stone and his contacts with wikileaks, including a filmmaker who joins me who made a documentary about his whole life. And my legal breakdown on the case against Donald Trumps lawyer Michael Cohen. And California Attorney general on the show, im ari melber, youre watching the beat on msnbc. Im 85 and i wanna go home just got a job as a lifeguard in savannah im 85 and i wanna go home dropping sick beats, they call me dj nana 85 and i wanna go dont get mad. Get e trade, kiddo. With moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis . How do you chase what you love do what i did. Ask your doctor about humira. Its proven to help relieve pain and protect joints from further irreversible damage in many adults. Humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. Humira has been clinically studied for over 20 years. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Ready for a new chapter . Talk to your rheumatologist about humira. This is humira at work. More and more people are finding themselves in a chevrolet for the first time. Trying something new can be exciting. Empowering. Downright exhilarating. See for yourself why chevrolet is the most awarded and Fastest Growing brand, the last four years overall. Switch into a new chevy now. Current qualified competitive owners and lessees can get this 2018 chevy equinox for around 199 a month. Chevrolet. Find new roads. We keep putting up this list and its getting longer and longer and longer and more ridiculous. Literally at this point, we have to do fancy camera work where i turn so you can have the bigger wall behind me, so we can make the list this big, this is nuts. Rachel will need that extra real estate tonight. Rex tillerson out. He got his pink slip on twitter this morning. Tillerson is fourth in line for succession to the presidency, and he got his pink slip. And honestly, sometimes the truth is worth repeating. The man famous for pretending to fire people in dramatic board room meetings appears incapable of actually doing it in person while serving as the most powerful leader in the world. Latoya, youre fired. Youre fired. Cindy, youre fired. Lets bring in two friends of the beat. Bill crystal, and mike lupika. Does it matter that this president cant have a facetoface with these people that he praised, recruited, used and is now removing . Its odd what a tough confrontational guy he is on social media and not in person. Ari, ive been thinking all day that were talking about tillerson, who probably should have never been secretary of state in the first place, only trump saw a future John Foster Dulles there. But were talking about this, were not talking about porn stars today, were not talking about the way he got rolled by the nra, after all the big talk about what he was going to do about guns. But youre right, this absolutely runs to fworm. And the only thing missing with this, it was kind of like a able teenager breaking up with his girlfriend, the only thing missing is the video of tillerson going down the elevator and getting into the limousine to leave the white house. As tom brokaw was reminding everyone into what is a very personal relationship. On whether you click and have the trust of your diplomat. Trump is a bully, and i think bullies are also notoriously cowards. I think thats true of President Trump obviously. It and comey, he had inherited. Of course he had him over to dinner during his presidency to get him to be loyal. Tillerson is in that job because trump asked him to take it. I guess there are slightly different reports on the tickto ticktock, i think trump wanted to fire him over the weekend, but kelly said you have to wait until he gets home. He cancelled a few Little Things at the end of his africa trip. The secretary of states plane landed a 4 00 p. M. Today, and tillerson was in town, he could have asked tillerson to come to the white house. I mean think about that, just as a kind of human things, we have all worked in organizations, i have had to fire people, i have been told that my services are no longer needed once or twice. The guy is in town, you no long ev er need him and you theres a candle light dinner, and then when hes done, he cannot bear to talk to the person. It seems that the public pressure, the fact that he was effectively criticized on shows like this one today led to him making at least a personal phone call, which he had not made reportedly before the tweet. Let me ask read to you bill crystal as someone who has served in politics in the white house, its not that we we just lost mike lupika, i hope hes okay. We lost his camera. Look at the turnover rate, it is high in both jobs, in the bush and Obama White House in the first year, people leave, its not that that never happens, but here we see 43 , and that goes much higher, its not just trump criticism, but my question to you is does this mean its harder to get new people, including people outside of government . Its hard to get throuem if y think theyll be fired in a sort of humiliating and embarrassing way. To finish the ticktock, there was no you aurgency in him bein fired, he was coming back tomorrow, they could have arranged a meeting this week, they could have had a ceremo ceremonious so to speak resignation, at the beginning of next week, they could have had a transition, they could have had everything lined up. Instead trump goes, somebody in the state department gives a truthful event of what happened, tillerson didnt know he was being fired. I think he came back early not thinking he was going to be fired. He wanted to make an appeal to trump. He perhaps wanted to say give me two months or three months, and trump doesnt like to look someone in the eye. It not very helpful if youve got compromised diplomacy going on with respect to north korea, iran and ore places. And you speak again to how these things actually work and what it reveals. Mike lupika, dont count you out, we lost you for a second, but now youre back in. One or two final sentences in your view . I just worry that the bar got lowered a little bit more. And this cabinet, ari, has become a cabinet of sic the pipeline from outside is narrowing. Mike and bill, thank you both. Up ahead, Donald Trumps pick for secretary of state, once attacking wikileaks as hostile and doing the bidding of russia. In doing the bidding tonight, roger stone told people who was in contact with Julian Assange during the campaign. I had an interview with a man who spent five years with roger. One mans political strict is another mans politicallosers dont legislation. And Stormy Daniels attorney told the beat, theyre not going mom, what happens next . I have for you, tonight, my special legal breakdown on the case, against Donald Trumps long time lawyer Michael Cohen, thats ahead. Without starting from scratch. It brings your business up to speed, doing more with systems you have in place. It can bring all your apps to life and run them within your data center. It is. The new ibm cloud private. The cloud thats designed for your data. Ai ready. Secure to the core. The ibm cloud is the cloud for smarter business. Secure to the core. Dearyou made moonshine inher, a backwoods still. Smuggled booze and dodged the law. Even when they brought you in, they could never hold you down. When i built my family tree and found you, i found my sense of adventure. I set off on a new life, a million miles away. Im heidi choiniere, and this is my ancestry story. Now with over 10 billion historical records, discover your story. Get started for free at ancestry. Com narrator Public Education has been valued for centuries. Man the direction in which education starts a person will determine their future in life. Woman the highest result of education is tolerance. Woman its the road to equality and citizenship. Man education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world. Narrator brought to you by the california teachers association. Woman because we know quality Public Schools make a better california for all of us. Breaking news this hour on the russian probe. Congressman adam schiff says the dems will write their own report on an investigation that did a disservice to the nation. And holding this position on an organization at the sender of the russia probe. Its time to call out wikileaks for what it really is, a nonstate Hostile Intelligence Service often embedded by state actors like russia. T. He is a courageous journalist who has an incredible track record for accuracy and authenticity. We know that bob mueller is looking for accuracy in his relationship with assange, because stone told us right here on the beat. Did they ask you about his dealings with Julian Assange . Yes, they did, what did roger tell me about his dealings or his communications with Julian Assange during the election. And breaking today, nunberg is one of two sources telling the washingt wshington post tha w stone was talking to julian assan assange. Stone has long delighted in baiting his critics. For those who say i have no soul, those who say i have no principles, are losers. Those are bitter losers. I revel in your hatred, because if i were ineffective, you wouldnt hate me. Joined my the special prosecutor who first intervie d roger stone when you were on the watergate investigation force. And then the producer of get me roger stone which he spent more than five years working on. Morgan, if you want to focus on the facts and not the spectacle, does he brag about things he didnt do in order to get attention, or does he overshare about potential conspiracies that he may be involved in . He does both. So in july and in june of 2016, we he told us that he was trying to meet with Julian Assange, we spoke with him about the possibility of bringing our crew to london to film that meeting. Hold up. When you were making this documentary, he was telling you as a documentary journalist that he was having contact with assange . Yes. And that was successful contact . I dont know if it was successful. But this Washington Post report has one named report and one anonymous source. Are you the anonymous source . I am not the anonymous source. So you are the third source thats confirming stones contact with assange. The Washington Post report says that he did meet with as sang, he did speak to meet with assange. Do you have extra footage of that . We have a lot of footage of him talking about Julian Assange, talking about all of these subjects. One of his tweets was wednesday hillary is done. That day, our film crew went and we spent the day with roger trying to see how he would react, once hillary was allegedly done that, day nothing did come to pass. I didnt know that your interview tonight was going to be this newsworthy. Is your view then that your understanding is that roger stone, when you were spending that time shadowing him had advance knowledge that the email hack was coming . I do not know if he had knowledge. He has said consistently that he could extract this idea that john podesta could be in trouble from public newsed account. We know that Paul Manafort was working with the podesta group, he may have had some foreknowledge through that report. I do not know if he met with wikileaks adventuring the weckke election. We know that on april 29, popadopoulos was told about the dirt, the emails, the thousands of emails that the russians had. We know that on june 3, the Trump Campaign was notified, don jr. Was notified about the dirt that was coming to trump tower. We know on june 9, that they met there. And then within a week, two days after two days before the meeting on june 7, donald trump is saying that the next week, the next monday, hes going to do explain to people all the dirt on the clintons. Does this mean that roger stone has potential exposure as an accessory . As a con spespirator, as a conspirator to use the dnc emails to help donald trump get elected. That was the reason for the conspiracy. And roger stone appears to be right in the middle of this. Would you be willing to come and discuss this on the beat tomorrow . Absolutely. And thank you for being here and for the legal vantage point. Up ahead, i have as promised my take on the legal case against Donald Trumps lawyer Michael Cohen. 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Cohen now in a behind the scenes battle with daniels, preparing a new arbitration order against her and a public battle, whos dialing up the pressure and cohen facing legal filings arguing he violated election law by facilitating that 130,000 payment and hes also one of the witnesses on muellers investigators now asking witnesses about Trump Lawyers paying women. Did muellers folks ask anything that related to these issues around payments to people or women . Well, look, they asked if i had ever heard anything about that, and my answer is, i never have. I have never heard you say anything like that. Muellers team were asking you if you knew anything about trumps payments to women . They did ask about that. People can make up their own minds about cohens actions, but as this story escalates, there is a focus on the law. And its important to be accurate about the law in question. Cohen may have done a shady thing, even a dumb thing, but based on the legal history, this 130,000 payment itself was probably not a crime. And there are two reasons why. The first reason is something called the irrespective test and the second reason is john edwards. So lets start with a legal rule that goes by this ungainly name, irrespective test. Heres how the federal Election Commission decides if a person is paying for a campaign item. The law, you cannot use Campaign Funds for personal use like vacations or personal loans. If the expense would exist even in the absence of the candidacy, then the personal use ban applies. So if this is a candidates paying an expense for running for office. So even though cohen arranged this payment during the campaign, this rule gives him a Legal Defense that trump was making hush payments irrespective of being a candidate. And of course the new yorkers have reported on many trump payments throughout his life. So the good news here for trump and cohen is they can prevail by publicizing how trump pays hush money to women all the time. The bad niews is they would hav to advertise how trump pays hush money to women all the time. But think about it, this entire the payment was a Campaign Donation and then the Trump Campaign broke the law by not reporting it and they say if it was cohens money, he broke the law by giving more than the 2,700 limit or if he just facilitated money from the trump organization, then that broke the law because such corporate donations are themselves illegal. You can see how that would be a big deal. But if the original payment was personal, not a donation, every one of those claims comes crashing down. Now even if people dont like that outcome, it has logic, because if the fec can just decide after an election that a payment is a Campaign Donation, it can turn any candidate into a lawbreaker, that would become kind of like a, well, a catch22. And that brings us to john edwards. In 2011, prosecutors charged him on a similar theory, they argue the payments he made to a mistress should have been donations. The trial showed edwards was not sympathetic defendant. Stefd about him cheeing on his wife while she had cancer emerged but he insists he was a sinner, not a criminal. While i do believe i did anything illegal, i did an awful awful lot that was wrong. And there is no one else responsible for my sins. The jury agreed. They acquitted him on the charge for a 200,000 payment from a donor for his mistress. Sound familiar . They did not convict him on any other charges. Conservative and legal experts agreed. A lot of conservatives who dont even like john edwards thought this case was appalling. They just thought it was without merit and that it was the government trying to regulate personal conduct. We looked this up at the time leading legal groups like crew opposed the edwards prosecution says the case rests on finding the payments were in Fact Campaign contributions but no court has ever interpreted the definition of Campaign Contribution this broad. That was true then about edwards regardless of what you think of him, and it looks to be the case for Michael Cohen today. The law doesnt change based on who is sitting at the defendants table. The payment to Stormy Daniels doesnt look like an illegal Campaign Donation based on the fec rule on the history. Many questionable things emerged about Michael Cohen during this whole story and now as i just explained, his Legal Defense may require him to prove the hush payments were common for trump and thus something they were doing irrespective of being a candidate. So cohns Legal Defense is not about denying material that seems inkrkrimnating. Its about publicizing that material himself. He may have to take a page everybody another strategist eminem who won a rap battle by listing off all the negative information about himself saying it proudly and handing the mike to an opponent and saying here, tell them something they dont know about me. That can make for an embarrassing mike drop but it is still a mike drop. With zero dollar copays on select plans and reward points on prescriptions. So no matter where youre going or who you are, its worth the trip. Well help you find low cost prescriptions including zero dollar copays on select Medicare Part d plans. Walgreens. Trusted since 1901. Copdso to breathe better,athe. I go with anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say, go this way. I say, ill go my own way with anoro. Go your own way oncedaily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that Work Together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. Anoro is not for asthma. 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Trump is touring prototypes of the proposed border wall. California sued. A judge sided with trump. His administration is also suing california back over its immigration laws and the doj naming Governor Brown and attorney general Xavier Becerra in the suit saying is california sanctuary city laws violate federal power and the constitution. Governor brown has done a poor job running california. They have the highest taxes in the United States. The place is totally out of control. You have sanctuary cities where you have criminal living in the cities. The drugs are pouring through in california. We we put up the real wall, well stop 99 , maybe more than that. Joining me is attorney general becerra. Thank you for beeg on the program. Why is california fighting with donald trump so much . Ari, thanks for having me. And were only fighting donald trump because donald trump is trying to stop us from doing everything thats made us the number one economy for the country. In fact, the sixth largest economy in the world. His ideas on the wall, your view is they are illegal or just bad ideas . Its ancient. Its a medieval wall. Even a thousand years ago, they stopped relying solely on walls to defend themselves. Why shouldnt we do that in the 21st century . Were beyond that. Plus, hes doing it in a way thats unlawful. He didnt obey federal law, disrespecting state law. We have a right to make sure the law is enforced. Hes not above the law. Let me tick off what we have on these fights is, immigration, the sanctuary cities. The border wall, the travel ban. California suing this administration over transgender issues, birth control, obamacare, natural gas rules, clean air act, water protection, fracking rules. There are some people who welcome that. They see you and Governor Brown as a bulwark. Others say are you picking your battles or does it seem at a certain point virtually anything he does, you guys go to court . Ari, name one of those you would want to see anybody, a community, a city, a state go backwards on. Fracking, clean energy, treating immigrants with less respect. Were interesting in growing, in building. Were interested in showing people that california is a destination. Thats why were 40 million strong and we become the bulwark of our national economy. I want to ask you before you go about this i. C. E. Official who says hid concern was bearing a burden knowing some of the information theyre putting out was false. It your response . Are we surprised . Weve known that from washington, d. C. And the white house, weve not been receiving Accurate Information for quite some time. I think Robert Mueller and now we see this i. C. E. Representative spokesperson giving us a clear signal that oftentimes what weigh an hear from this administration is not true. Surprise, surprise. Xavier becerra, thank you for coming on the beat. Thank you. That does it for our show tonight. Ill be live in washington tomorrow at 6 00 p. M. Eastern with a lot of guests. Hardball with Chris Matthews starts now. Dont wall me a moron. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Ill Chris Matthews in washington. Its been a wild day with a tweet this morning at 8 44, President Trump fired his secretary of state. Can you imagine George Washington doing that to Thomas Jefferson . Even if he could tweet . It came a mere hours after tillerson touched down at joint base andrews back from cut short fivecountry tou