yesterday that we all followed it. this former president, now presidential candidate convicted of a felony. but that brings to us a different and unprecedented reality now. because he is the presumptive nominee of his party. we have not heard about dropping him from the ticket which in a different era and party you might hear about. trump holding his first campaign rally since becoming a convicted felon. he went to arizona, one of the battleground state. that is a dnc ad trying to get everyone focused on the reality saying he is unhinged and unfit. they might change the bylaws now but that defeats the purpose of having the requirements and the rules for a party. a non-partisan journalist means trump is banned from carrying a gun. that is just a reality. so, on the one hand he will not be able to have the guns he used to have access to. that is not something convicted felons are allowed to have. if he wins the electoral college he could be in charge of the nukes again. donald trump is not trying to move on from the issues. two convicted felons. one convicted last week and the other donald trump pardoned back in the day. republicans might argue they always saw it as a miscarriage of justice, but it is a choice to hold your first rally with another person who has been convicted. trump embracing the disgraced sheriff. he is controversial legally and because he is someone that actively campaigned and really denigrated people based on race and other classifications. he has been on "the beat" once. we pressed him on these very issues. this is hey, the guy accused of racism. if he wanted to strike the tone or do something for d-day he could have done that. all of this comes at an important time. we are going to see the two people facing off. two weeks ago nobody knew whether that would even happen this year. it is a year with a lot of uncertainty but the biden campaign decided they will face down trump in the earliest ever debate just weeks away. the biden camp felt it was a pivotal part of standing up to an incumbent president and showing he was ready for the job. the trump folks think it will play well for them. they also sigh it as a contrast to joe biden and his style. there are maga allies in congress who are doubling down on the message and the governance of what could be a less rule of law society. a more autocratic one. let's be clear that it goes beyond messaging. speaker mike johnson is all but vowing to turn it into a banana republic and go after the very jury system that he used to defend. top republicans say they will target prosecutors and do things that are all but admitting illegality if you say you are go going to go out and get someone and they take their cues from the convicted felon candidate. >> revenge does take time. >> it does. >> sometimes revenge can be justified. >> in your first term you did not arrest or jail any of your political opponents. after the conviction has the approach changed. >> hillary clinton and all of these people. would we do it? i will talk to you in about three years from now. >> when the election is over, based on what they have done i would have every right to go after them. it is easy. it is joe biden. you see all of the criminality. that was donald trump talking to dr. phil with his version of catch me outside. donald trump needs everyone to think it is an endless cycle of partisan witch hunts and that the doj is only targeting republicans. that will be a hard message to sell to people that follow the news or information or independents or people not in his maga bubble. people are aware the doj has a trial against hunter biden and robert menendez. they are not from a position of strength where regular people who are worried about inflation and life are thinking about the political witch hunt allegation and conspiracy theory from a convicted felon who is losing his gun rights and needs to meet with a probation officer. there are also white nationalists groups responding to all of these the proud boys are saying stand back and stand by. it is far from over. one group is calling for war. on the one hand there is so much online rhetoric. but on the other groups these are the groups that waged a sedition and the groups donald trump vowed to pardon if he gets back into office. if you have a republican uncle who say it is over and done, remember, this is right now. these are the militias that did it and some of them now are dethroned unless they are pardoned by trump. there are a lot of ways people experience it. people don't follow the news every day or traditional news organization. there is what is happening in the real world. and of course on tiktok. >> former president donald trump has been convicted of 34 felonies in the state of new york. >> why is it so quiet. he is literally guilty on all 34 counts. >> you know how many memes saying i don't care. i am going to go to the election booth and vote for a convicted felon. >> the justice system worked and the rule of law prevailed. >> guilty verdict. everybody is really surprised. i'm not. >> that is the other side of the camera. msnbc viewers and trump fans. you know that everybody knows about something when it is a punch line and everybody can laugh about it. >> trump was found guilty. they were going to put him in an orange jump suit but it felt redundant. >> it is amazing how all of trump's chances come back to haunt him. >> a whole 38 days away. that is so long. i guess i will need to pass the time with my countdown to sentencing advent calendar. there you go. >> steven colbert -- those are critics. but some of those jokes actually go at the shared premise we all know, what i mentioned earlier. donald trump is projecting all of the talk about lock her up, the criminality of his charges. crooked hillary. his efforts to abuse power. to shake down a foreign government in ukraine. to try to get a fake sham investigation announced of the bidens because he was the most afraid of biden. it is all projection and his weakness and his issues and his propaganda. he is effective at propaganda. propagandists understand if you have a problem you project it on the other person first. remember, the vast majority of people in the country do not do business fraud or cheat on their taxes. they don't have the extra money or lawyers ortrickery. donald trump was convicted of a quite elaborate scheme to steal from you because that is how fraud works. if he pays less taxes, you pay more. we are headed to a debate and a question about how america takes in the first-ever major party convicted felon candidate. it is not just law but politics and scheduling. we have our "the beat" house historian when we are back together in 90 seconds. e are bak together in 90 seconds because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire >> he says we have a debate coming up. biden's executive order is weak and pathetic. >> is he describing himself, weak and pathetic. come on. >> a little bit of the debate prep, the president speaking out. i mentioned projection. you have the back and forth. we will see more of it when they meet in person. for this we turn to a special day around here. it is chai day. a veteran of several presidential campaigns including obamas, chai is back with us. >> good to be back. >> i showed viewers a little bit of where we are. it is familiar, but also unprecedented. you see donald trump trying to lean in to all of this and degrade the idea that there is anything to be concerned about. what is one convicted felon. here is two. what do you think is the political strategy and how will it work? >> trump's political strategy is clear. his message the campaign has been i am strong. joe biden is weak. he is using his criminality to reinforce his machismo. criminals have a macho swagger. >> suge knight if you are taking nominations. >> sure. >> trump is using the criminality to reinforce his macho message. he is using it to reinforce the message that is deeply racial and why the proud boys are turned on by the verdict. he is saying law and order is for minorities and african-americans when we talk about law and order, we are talking about a standard that shouldn't apply to us, to me, a rich white guy. it should apply to poor african-american men. >> that double standard is a turn on to certain segments of maga and trump space. >> i think you make a fair point and they say blue lives matter, but not when the blue lives were upholding the peaceful transfer of power which they turned violent. >> right. >> that goes back to jim crow and everybody else. that is how something, as you know we reported a lot on the program, the hypocrisy of american criminal justice which brings us back to speaker johnson. i try to be respectful around here. when he says he is a constitutionalist, you don't know whether to laugh or cry. what constitution? >> i want to play briefly the way he talks to the point you raised. take a look. >> look. we are the rule of law team. we believe in the rule of law. >> we have rogue prosecutors that have drug president trump through the process. there will be a reckoning on november 5th. >> he is not for the rule of law. trump said the real verdict comes on the 5th. they don't have any credibility on democracy because they tried to overthrow the last loss, and sometimes i feel like i am saying the obvious around here, part of the job in the news, we don't put jury verdicts up to a vote in this country. >> no, we don't. speaker johnson believes his christian dogmatic principles should apply to millions of non-believers. millions of women whose reproductive rights speaker johnson is proud to deny. and perhaps the greatest failure of democrating messaging. donald trump believes that women are disposable. he believe presidency women's rights are disposable. he wants the governments in all of our bedrooms. let's talk about what goes on in his bedroom. i'm sorry, when you are selling a bible and talking about national abortion bans, the hugh hefner lifestyle is not an option for you. donald trump's personal behavior connects to real world consequences for the american people. >> you are connecting it bluntly but everything that you said has got legal support. just in sam alito talking about his wife's rights to fight with her neighbor. she has the right. he wants to take away the right of all women in the u.s. to make their own health care decisions with their own doctor. that is a consequence of trump. it is interesting. you made the point. as for the extremism, you have, in your adult career, always worked against republicans including the bush era. so i know that you disagree with bush about a lot of things. i want to play where him and obama were on the same page to underscore how extreme it is to have not only trump, a felon trying not to go to jail and other republicans bluntly attacking the rule of law. >> i have a lot of confidence generally in the fbi. >> i thought the jury verdict should stand. i felt the punishment was severe. >> we are not supposed to mettle in criminal investigations and that has been our practice. i think there are certain procedures that the fbi follows or the doj follows. >> even nixon would not admit to what mike johnson and trump did today. from your perspective what do you and the democrats do about that when people tune it out saying it is all of the usual bickering. >> it is not the usual bickering. one thing that i believe is that you have to connect these sorts of events to real world consequences. there are real world consequences. without the rule of law what are we as a society. what happens when donald trump becomes dictator. think of the kind of society donald trump wants to create, a society with a double standard. if you are poor or non-white you are subject to certain laws and rich and white you are not. if you are a woman you are subjected to a certain type of belief and intrusion into your privacy. if you are a white male you are not subjected to that. there are real world consequences. we are seeing it over and over again. quite frankly democrats need to be stronger in calling it out. >> all really important points. really glad we had time with you today. you are the resident film buff as well. former nyu film editor. i saw the new julia dryfuss film. they do dark and weird stuff. this film is about death and what makes life worthwhile. i don't know if you have any movie recs or thoughts. a24 does some great stuff. >> i am a great admirer of "civil war." it is a difficult movie to watch in some parts, but it is an important movie. not just because it is about politics, but about journalism and the role and the importance of journalism in the world we see around us and the politics that we see around us. >> you had me at politics and had me at journalism. you had me at a chai recommendation. now i'm sold. i'm there. i'll watch it. >> exactly. i love it when you quote jerry maguire to me that way. >> what does she is a when he does the thing. >> i'm solid. >> you had me at hello. tom cruise gives a huge speech and she is as shut up, shut up, you had me at hello. >> what about the later part when he said i stick to it. i stick with it. she said i don't want something where you just stick to me. >> that was later in the movie when she talks like she wants to be a real partner to him as opposed to an obligation. it is about relationships, navigating the relationships, the ups and downs of it amidst professional up and downs. >> i love that. was it not david pecker that said show me the money. >> i am sure david pecker at some point in the life said exactly that. >> this is the news. it has to be true. have a good weekend. i am running over on time. we have more reporting on steve bannon, the former trump white house official headed to prison and rnc writing the platform. next we will hear from a probation officer about what president trump will have to do before his sentencing. t trump w before his sentencing. ead, lived with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. 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we heard from so many big time lawyers and plenty in politics and media. now a veteran new york city probation commissioner who has got the details on that crucial meeting for this convicted felon. nypd is revoking his gun license and makes sure he does not have guns on him. whether he gets back nukes, he is not trusted with a single gun. in vermont state party rules ban a convicted felon being promoted. and most convicted felons face travel restrictions. donald trump is effectively banned for over 30 countries. they could waive that if reelected but he is just a private citizen and it is not clear he can go places if he had reasons, campaign or otherwise to want to be in other countries before the election. we are now joined by the former commissioner of the new york city department of probation martin horne. welcome. >> good to be here. >> how would this interview work for a convicted felon like trump before sentencing? >> there is no convicted felon like trump. he is one of a kind. all that i can speak to is how it goes for the average joe. they are asked to come in and sit in a small city office and meet with a city probation officer and discuss everything from the crime they are convicted of, any criminal history they might have. their family situation. their obligations. where they are living and how they are supporting themselves and their income. any mental or physical issues that might compromise their ability to support themselves or live independently and to assess their willingness to abide by the conditions that the judge might set for a probation or a conditional discharge sentence. >> to put it simply can that report impact the sentence and potentially lead to a more serious sentence. >> it certainly can. in new york city 95% of the convictions are the result of plea negotiations. the purpose of the probation report is aggravating or mitigating circumstances. >> if you have someone violation of the gag order, attacking the judge's family and other things and sits down with the probation officer and that person continues to seem defiant, how might that affect a judge. >> i'm not a judge. i can't say. >> you have over seen two of the very key entities in the same jurisdiction where this convict is going forward. yes. is this individual amenable to supervision and receptive to accepting the restrictions placed upon them in the event they are placed on probation. will they comply with the rules or are they likely to violate the rules. that is something that would be appropriately noted and reported to the judge, and then it is for the judge to weigh. certainly in this case this judge knows the defend very well. >> right. last question, based on what we know now do you think that donald trump's approach has made it more likely that he could get jail or less likely or really no difference? >> that calls for speculation i am not going to engage in. as i say one of the things that we are trying to determine in a presentence investigation is whether or not the individual is amenable to supervision. i leave it at that. >> well, i think people can hear that and process whether or not he has in substance and in fact shown an a meanibility to that supervision. if you are good about it you are less likely to get jail on the first offender case or not. martin, thanks for spending time with us. >> you bet. >> coming up we have an update on the ethics scandal at the supreme court, but first another trump white house official headed to prison this year. truml headed to prison this year [street noise] [car door shuts] [paparazzi cameras] introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. ned, ned, who are you wearing? he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. ned? otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. audience: ohhh... with clearer skin, movie night is a groovy night. 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(reporters) over here. kev! kev! with an aarp medicare supplement plan (reporter 1) any response to the trade rumors, we keep hearing about? (kev) we talkin' about moving? not the trade, not the trade, we talking about movin'. no thank you. (reporter 2) you could use opendoor. sell your house directly to them, it's easy. (kev) ... i guess we're movin'. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. it has been a week, but now it is time to fall back. guess who is here. talented comic rachel feinstien, a finalist on "the last comic standing." movies that you know like "train wreck." >> when you have a kid you have to pretend to love things you hate. i hate playgrounds. when i see a woman pushing a swing i assume he needs to be rescued. big guy. no woman wants to be called big guy. that is what you call a union trucker. >> that rings a bell. you can check it out on netflix now and our hometown friend of "the beat" the first woman columnist for "time" magazine ever and you can see her with first lady barbara bush, and she continues to be one of our washington and political experts right now. how are you doing? >> my mom is excited i am on this show. easy on the eyes. he probably has great buns. don't put that in your skit today. >> you are a comic and get extra room. >> hi karen. >> forget it. >> they have a chart. the number of people naming their babies karen is decreasing. >> she is upset her name is karen. she is aggressively liberal. she is very angry about it. yeah. >> i am not talking about your mom, but karen has gotten a bit of a bad name lately. >> she doesn't -- she spells trump for some reason. he is a spit fire. she made an anti-trump collage. i don't think it is healthy to collage against someone. >> made of what? pasta? >> at home she collages. i made an anti-trump collage. it is very controversial. >> i think whatever happens in your art room in bethesda is not controversial. >> let me say this, shoutout to your mom and the msnbc moms. i love that. margaret is our repeat player. i will start with you. greetings. you look like you areplace. not washington. >> always good to get out of washington. margaret, as our "beat" hometown hero, i give the floor to you. what's on your fallback list? >> for the non-comedy portion of this segment, i have so many things. i have a list, but i'll go quickly. ever since hunter biden's been indicted on gun charges, there's been a flip in the gun positions. so that the people who are against universal background checks, want open carry everywhere, in line, at a concert for a rachel performance, now, they just want to have that gun law really, really enforced now, and admit to no hypocrisy for it. i propose hunter's law, and hunter's law would be universal strict background checks so that people like hunter would never get guns and neither would a lot of the people packing heat in texas. >> please say it one more time. that was amazing. my mom was also saying i'll tet you why they get butt hurt about hunter biden. they get butt hurt until it's about the guns and then they stop being butt hurt. right? they're into the shooters. >> that's what i was going to ask margaret. on the one hand, i will say anchoring here, there are some serious allegations against hunter biden and he has to go through the process like anyone else, that's part of it. on the other hand, outside of that and the courtroom, there are literally millions of people here who have been exposed for a kind of hypocrisy on the gun issue which is a big issu -- life and death, do you think they're aware of their own hypocrisy, margaret? >> self knowledge is not, you know, flowing these days. i think people just block it out. they take positions that suit the moment. like the other thing that really got to me this week is clarence thomas apparently forgot to disclose millions of dollars in gifts. like, if i had a gift for $100, i would remember it for a really long time. and i'm writing an obit of clarence thomas. we do it ahead of time, don't get excited, for "time" magazine. so i interviewed a lot of people who kept telling me about his converted school bus that he went around the country with ginni and they would go and sometimes park at walmart. well, he was given a quarter million dollar luxury motor coach by a health care executive. how do you forget that? you don't forget it. >> it's outrageous. yeah. we mentioned that story earlier in the hour, that it was coming up. this is that story. i'm glad you brought it because you guys bring the topics. it's outrageous and it's such a low bar that a member of congress, right, could be actually indicted for that. yet the supreme court rules are so loose that we just hear about it when it leaks out. so shout out to margaret for bringing up an important story. >> thank you, margaret. i also feel like if you're a supreme court justice is going to be bribed, if this is really true, can i just say that, like, they better be good bribes. you don't want it to be like what's on the amazon father's day list. if roe v. wade is overturned i don't want it to be like, you know, he got a tool for his grill or something. or like a snuggie. does that feel fair? you want it -- like if -- >> let me ask you -- if i'm not going to have ivf anymore, he should get a lot of blow or something. it has to be a good reason. >> we have 90 seconds. what's on your fallback list? >> thank you. i guess probably, you know what annoys me. you know when they go on instagram, people go on instagram and make an announcement about something we're not doing anymore. or they'll be like, a command, they'll be like, normalize spa weeks. my friend said this. i'm like, you're just telling me you're rich. she'll be like, normalize spa days, mommy. i didn't think blowouts were not normal. let's go to a caller. we're running out of time. >> here's my follow up. you're a comic. you think about these things. what bothers you about it, is it that the word normalize implies you're fighting for something important and it ends up being something stupid or is all use of the word normalize annoying to you? >> i think all use, but people taking themselves too seriously on instagram. when they have a new command, this is what's okay now, it makes me feel like it's kind of jarring. i'm eating in bed, i feel like i have to do something or run an errand. they'll get on instagram and be like, this, and they'll post something, like this, you need to feel like -- i don't even have a bra on. what do i have to do again. it's a lot. or people who cry on instagram. if you're going to weep, do it privately. don't leap on instagram to have a panic attack. it's a lot. >> how much time are you spending on instagram a week? a hostile amount. i'm always in some unhealthy loop and i'm ashamed of it. but when i'm there, that's one thing that pisses me off. >> okay. we covered some ground. >> karen is very aroused. do you have final words for her? >> it feels fair. shout out to your mom again, rachel and margaret, thank you. we'll be right back. if you're living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. good to go unscripted. good to go on a whim. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you're taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems, mental health concerns and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. with cabenuva, you're good to go. ask your doctor about switching. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. norman, bad news... i think it's a great pi never graduated from med school. what? 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