0 what would that even look like? and 23 years since the massacre at columbine. the former principal joins me to talk about his efforts to help communities heal after unthinkable horror. that's as the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle. tonight there are new questions about what happened inside that texas elementary school, were 19 young children and two teachers were killed on tuesday. nbc news reporting that texas investigators now say that victims of the shooting were found in four separate classrooms. meanwhile, details are emerging about the police response and the specific timeline of the attack. tom llamas has more on that timeline. >> authorities say the gunman crashed his grandmother's truck at 11:28 am. witnesses reported seeing carrying a long gun and a bag. he fired at two people outside a funeral home while before heading to the elementary school. at 11:30 am the first 9-1-1 call came in. this video shows the gunman, dressed in black long gun in hand, entering the school ten minutes later at 11:40 am. police say that the doors appeared to be locked. as for whether or not anyone tried to stop him from entering, yesterday director of the texas department of public safety said this. >> there was a brave -- resource of a certain person, that approached and engaged him at that time. then gunfire was not exchanged. >> but today the department told me this. was there a school officer on campus and was that school officer armed? because that is what we have been told. >> no. no. there was not an officer ready and available. >> four minutes after the shooter entered, local police arrived at 11:44 am. the officers were treated after fire and called for reinforcements. >> we needed body armor. we need assistant riflemen and negotiators. they were also evacuating personnel and students and teachers. >> a tactical team arrived at 12:47 pm. >> tactical teams arrive. with orders his shoot and kill the suspect. >> police acknowledge that the shooter was in a classroom for an hour before they were able to take him out. video taken after the shooting rampage shows loved ones being restrained outside the school. unable to get to the children, they begged officers they are to charge in. >> our thanks to tom llamas for that report. today, the uvalde texas police department issued a statement saying this -- it's important for the community to know that our officers responded within minutes. the president and first lady plan to visit you fall day on sunday. today was supposed to be the last day of school before summer vacation. instead, families there are preparing for funerals. those students who did survive are left with the memory of that horrible day that changed their lives forever. >> i heard shoot, shoot, the shooter trying to shoot at an officer. they went past the direction, went back inside. >> what were you thinking as you were hiding in that bathroom for so long? >> i think i was just trying to be still. and not move at all. i was just crying in my hands. trying to not make noise. >> let's bring in my good friend and partner ali velshi, live in uvalde and our msnbc c correspondent, ken delaney and. he covers national security and intelligence. hearing from that nine year old girl is brutal. ali, people and eovaldi, tell us, they are obviously searching for answers there. how are they reacting to the law enforcement response? >> look, imagine this -- many cases see the families not getting the bodies of their children because the process here -- this is a small town of 16,000 people. they called in a medical examiner. they do not have their own medical examiner or coroner. they called in one from san antonio, about -- away. it's been a long time to get to this. and they are trying to get closure. there are no chances of closure before there are burials. then, this confusion coming from the police is adding to it. we don't know with the story was a no one is disparaging the bravery of the police who were involved and went into a tough situation. but the changing messages and confusion have been very hard on people. there is a memorial behind me. you can see it up there. it has the crosses. you and i talked about last night. this is the front page of the newspaper. just the date, may 24th, 2022. a black paper. but think about this, stephanie. it's not just the parents who lost their own children. it's the idea that this is a tiny community. everyone knew someone here. and last night, you and i were talking about one of the two teachers who died. her husband, today, went and laid flowers at the memorial and went home to his family and died. he collapsed and died. we believe it is a heart attack and around here a lot of people are saying it is heartbreak. the community is broken. and in a little community like this -- you and i have covered shootings before -- but in larger cities it's easier to recover, there are so many other things. but i interviewed people who went to the school. i interviewed a man whose father planted the pecan tree there on the lawn. it is hard to see how this plays recovers overtime because it is now on a list that it never wanted to be on. it is a difficult time, stephanie. the community has to come together by the levels of stress are increasing, not decreasing. >> people are grieving but they are confused. can, help us understand. because we learned tonight that the victims were found in more than one classroom. tell us what is known at this point. what did you make of the news conference? >> that news conference was astounding, stephanie, now it only because the texas department of public safety substantially revised its account two days after the shooting -- including contradictory things at the head of that agency saying at a news conference, sitting next to the governor of the state. but the person -- the deputy regional director -- then failed to answer key, substantial questions. we are 48 hours after the incident at this point. the biggest one, really, stephanie, is why there was an hour delay. when this shooter made entry into the school, unimpeded we now understand, you've all the police officers did russian. and they were fired on by the shooter who had a weapon of war, an ar-15. and a couple of them were wounded and then they were treated. understandably so. so, they were following the doctrine of mass shootings that developed after columbine which is, you do not wait for the swat team. you russian and try to limit the shooter of. because most victims are killed at the very beginning in that shootings. most do not last longer than 12 minutes. so, they did that. but then they were repelled. and then, for reasons we do not really understand, they waited for 60 minutes until a federal border patrol lead tactical team came in and finally took the initiative. let's not understate the bravery involved in that action. there were local police in that two. they created that stack. one person led the way with a ballistic shield. and that person was shot in the scalp, we understand. and they then breached the classroom and shot the shooter and put 15 bullets in him. julia ainsley, my colleague, reported that. that was an hour later. and there are real questions about some of the children who were wounded, whether they could have been saved had the police gone in earlier. it just violated the doctrine of what police are supposed to do after a mass shooting. it is really inexplicable. there is a swat team in the uvalde police force and it is not clear why, whether they responded or if they did, why they did not get there before an hour. so, there are many painful questions here. this would have been horrible under the best of circumstances. but you have a texas police agency that does not appear to be giving straight answers. and then you have some real questions about the police response. >> we are just two days out. there are a lot more questions. we just have to be careful. we are not drawing any conclusions yet. there is a lot more we need to find out. ali, governor abbott is going to uvalde tomorrow. and let's be clear. because there are headlines that he is no longer going to the nra convention. but that's not exactly true. he's not going in person. but he is not turning his back on the nra. he is making them a prerecorded video that will be played on the big old jumbotron. so, what is the community saying about the governor coming in the states response? >> yep. well, look -- texas is a complicated place when it comes to guns. even in this community, gonna ship is taken as a given. so, we do not have people who sort of are at extremes on this thing. but it is kind of interesting. because texas has some of the most liberal gun laws in the entire country that just got more liberal in march. and part of the issue here is that people are saying, what we are doing here is not really working. so, what is the way in which you preserve your second amendment rights but not do exactly what we are doing? there are incremental ways in which you can do this. showing up at an array conventions is not a place -- and. in columbine there was an nra convention. it about 15 minutes away, saying this one is going to be in houston. and getting them to disavow support for the nra, that is not going to happen anytime soon. so, it remains controversial. it's not hard and fast in this community. this is not a place where people are saying, hey, let's have questions about who acquires guns. there are questions about whether red flags and other issues are once we should be considering. it's not a given what should be happening. but greg abbott and usually said he wasn't going. then that he was going. now he's not going but there are going to be a video response from him. >> he is not going in person but he is participating. ali velshi, stay safe. and get rest. thank you. can, we heard this earlier today from former fbi official frank -- >> the biggest thing that's contrary to training post columbine is that, clearly, the philosophy and policy is that you go in. and you go in with what you have. i remember that phrase, particularly being ingrained in our heads, post columbine. if that means that you, i local caught that showed up, and some sheriff's deputy who drove by, in the three of you are going in. >> now can, you just mentioned this, just a few moments ago. that protocol has changed. it is not, let's retreat and get back up, let's bring in a swat team. something happens and you charge. frank is obviously saying that they did not follow the latest protocol. how are other law enforcement veterans reacting to this? >> they are aghast. they have questions. because let's leave open the possibility that there was a good reason. one factor here is that they were hard indoors on the classrooms. ironically, they were designed to keep out mass shooters. but he locked himself in and they did not have a key for a while. that may have impede the police response. but that does not answer the whole question. those videos have parents exhorting the police to go in and other counts we have seen, that is just agonizing and infuriating to law enforcement officials that i have talked to. because it is absolutely the case that they are all trained to go in and do what you can do with the weapons that you have. but at the same time, we have set up a system where we are asking the police officers with handguns to rush into rifle because it is absolutely the case that they are all trained to go in and do what you can do with the weapons that you have. but at the same time, we have set up a system where we are asking the police officers with handguns to rush into rifle fire from weapons of war. and that is not really fair to them, stephanie. we should point out. >> it certainly isn't. and thank you for your reporting, ken dilanian. i know it is not easy. i want to bring in texas state senator roland gutierrez, his district includes you've all day. you and i talked just a couple of nights ago, hours after the shooting. here we are again. would have the last two days been like for you? how are you tonight? >> you know, stephanie -- i guess how i feel doesn't really matter. my constituents are hurting. i went by one of the victims fathers today, saw him outside of his house. and he is just in shock. he does not want to talk to his senator or a reporter. he does not want to talk to anybody. families are in shock and destroyed. if you are a parent, you understand. if you are a rational human being, you understand it. i will tell you what one person did tell me. they don't want their children 's death to be in vain. they want to see change. we must create change. >> do you think that texans want change? just think about this. you have had, what is it? you've had 13 mass shootings over the last several years. and in response, what has the state of texas done? they've gotten looser gun laws. >> i have a lot of republican constituents who elect me as well. at the end of the day, i am a hunter team and many of them don't either. at the end of the day, these are militarized weapons. if you talk to hunters in texas, they will tell you they want common sense restrictions. and how an 18 year old was able to access militarized weapons is just shocking. but that has been the law in texas for so many years. that must change and we can have that change, if greg abbott has the will to bring us back into the legislature and get that done. red flag laws can happen tomorrow if they simply have the fortitude to do what is right. waiting periods can happen if they simply have the fortitude. >> i made a mistake, it was eight shootings over the last 13. years well, the governor is coming tomorrow. when he speaks with constituents, when he speaks with families, do you think he'll be telling them this? >> i know that i was told this. and, i have been advocating for gun comment sense gun laws for years in the texas legislature. in 2019, i like the bill that did not even get up to the committee. at the end of the day, the people elect us to bring solutions to problems. this is a significant problem. there's the evidence of the problem, right behind us. these are the things that we are dealing with here. and, these people are hurting. and, for anybody that's against this, they need to put themselves in the place of these people. they need to understand that these folks took the kids to school and they are never, ever going to see them again. >> what is your reaction on how officials are handling the investigation, the timeline? it seems confusing to people sitting in my seat. but, you are right there. >> i've talked to dps officials, i have asked them for speed, about them for a little bit more transparency, a little bit of faster reporting on this. it's my hope that we'll have something more tomorrow and not saturday. at the end of the day, i get, it i get that this is an ongoing investigation. a lot of great people here. including those officers that went in. it does appear that some protocols might have been violated. but i am not a professional. i mean, at the end of the day, we will let people -- we will let these facts come out. >> we certainly well, what have parents told you though? i mean, we've seen people of parents that were on the scene begging to go inside. what are they telling you about that? >> a lot of people are upset. and, as this last press conference came out earlier today from dps, a lot of people are upset about the ambiguities, the confusion, the lack of response. and, so i have impressed upon my colleagues here and the folks are dps to make sure that they have transparency, quickness so that we get the information as quickly out as possible. to people, because these folks deserve to know if there was a failure. it is not going to bring their children back. not at all. and i don't blame anybody for what's happened here. but, we have to know how to do things right should this ever happen again. who i do blame, is the policy makers that are in charge of the state. the republican house controlled, the republican controlled senate, the governor -- at the end of the day, people are demanding change whether you, greg abbott, are going to change the laws and how some common sense gun solutions for all texans? militarized weapons have no place in our schools or anywhere in our community. >> well, he's making his way to uvalde tomorrow. perhaps we'll hear the very message. state senator roland gutierrez, thank you so much for joining us tonight. coming up, new reporting on the possible, and i say this in quotes, bipartisan action on gun control, we'll ask our friend michael steele the chances of anything getting passed the divided senate. then, later, we'll talk to the former principal of columbine high school. his message to other schools dealing with mass shootings and what he's doing to make school safer. the 11th hour just getting underway on a thursday night.