They put out a 300page report that is direct and damning and flatout says our president placed his own personal and political interests above the National Interests of the United States. Then they name names other than trump, all of them big names with a lot to lose. And there are Phone Records they link trumps guy, Rudy Giuliani, to the white house ph Budget Office and they link devin nunes with lev parnas, who may be working for the feds. All of this on the next wave of impeachment hearings, donald trump is in london. Kamala harris is out of the race. We have it all covered as The 11th Hour gets under way this tuesday night. O good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york, day 1,048 of this Trump Administration. And tonight, as expected, the
house Intelligence Committee moved the Impeachment Case to the next step. It was a straightup partyline vote 139, and with it comes a rather withering 300page report that methodically accuses the president of the United States of wrongdoing in dealings with ukraine. Now our attention becomes focused on the House Judiciary Committee, the one chaired by no jerry nadler, democrat of new york, which is holding its first impeachment hearing mere hours from now at 10 00 a. M. Judiciary will use the report to draft articles of impeachment. Details of the Intel Committees findings were released publicly today. The report is based on the tenweek Investigation Triggeren by that whistleblower complaint, lets not forget, that was concerning trumps july 25th phone call with the thennew president of ukraine. Laid out in direct wording, the Impeachment Investigators found that donald trump, and we quoter here, personally and acting through agents within and
outside of the u. S. Government solicited the interference of a foreign government, ukraine, to benefit his reelection and to harm the election prospects of a political rival. Re they go on. The president placed his own personal and political interests above the National Interests of the United States, sought to undermine the integrity of the u. S. President ial election process and endangered u. S. National security. Investigators say the Vice President , Secretary Of State, the acting Chief Of Staff, Secretary Of Energy and other senior officials, quote, were either knowledgeable of or active participants in an effort to extract from a foreign nation the personal political benefits sought by the president. The report accuses the president of, quote, an Unprecedented Campaign of obstruction, adding, the evidence of the president s misconduct is overwhelming, and so too is the evidence of his obstruction of congress. Today Intelligence Committee chairman adam schiff offered his assessment. This is not about ukraine. This is about our democracy. This is about our national security. If we dont care about this, we can darn well be assured the president will be back at it n doing this all over again. This reports biggest revelation, Phone Records obtained by house democrats. We didnt know about those before. They list the flurry of calls involving giuliani, lev parnas and nunes, the Top Republican on the Intel Committee who clashed as you will recall with the democrats during last months public hearings. The calls include several made the same day as the u. S. Ambassador to ukraine Marie Yovanovitch was recalled. Giuliani called the white house seven different times who had nine minutes of conversation with an unidentified phone number. That same day, someone from the Office Of Management And Budget called rudy three times, the last call resulting in a nearly 15minute conversation. Thonnand the report also reveals multiple phone calls between devin nunes and lev parnas. On april 12th, there were four phone calls between the two, including one that lasted nearly nine minutes. Nunes himself was asked about all that tonight on fox news. Maybe they have the recordings of my phone calls with Rudy Giuliani. Theyre welcome to play them because everything i spoke with Rudy Giuliani about is nothing that i wouldnt care if the American People found out. Did you ever talk to this guy, lev parnas, or whatever his name is . You know, its possible, but i havent gone through all my Phone Records. I dont really recall that name. I remember the name now because hes been indicted. Ill go back and check my records, but it seems unlikely that i would be taking calls from random people. Just a short time ago on this network, intel Committee Chairman schiff discussed the sh calls revealed in this report. These Phone Records show just the kind of interaction between these different players in the midst of this scheme. Were trying to identify the full scope of those who were complicit in what the president was doing and they give a window into exactly that. As we watch nunes in the hearings, he knew that you had obtained Phone Records that included him and that those Phone Records would inevitably be made public by your report. Well, he certainly had possession of the records. Now, how much he looked into them, how much he discussed what they showed with his staff, i really cant say. You would have to ask him. The democrats impeachment report here also notes that mr. Parnas appears to be in communication with congress and,
thus, anyone who dealt with parnas could be in trouble. Quote, mr. Parnas has begun rolling production of Certain Records in his possession, custody, or control in response to the subpoena, which the committees are evaluating. Theres also this about trumps Pressure Campaign to have ukraine make a specific statement regarding investigations into the bidens. The report includes an excerpt of a Draft Statement sent from ukrainian officials to thenspecial envoy kurt volker august 12th. The next day volker sent a revised version of the draft to Gordon Sondland which included an added promise to investigate burisma and the 2016 u. S. Elections. The statement was never delivered publicly. This is all unfolding during the president s london visit for this weeks nato summit meeting. Tonight trump and other leaders joined the queen at a reception at Buckingham Palace. But earlier in the day and in traditional form, the president
had plenty to say about what was going on back home. I think its very unpatriotic of the democrats to put on a performance where they do that. I do. I think its a bad thing for our country. Rf impeachment wasnt supposed to be used that way. All you have to do is read the transcripts, youll see there was absolutely nothing done wrong. They had legal scholars looking at the transcripts the other day, and they say these are absolutely perfect. Trump is right when he uses the word those concept those calls we made, two of them, were absolutely perfect calls. Theres some talk of lawmakers censuring you instead of impeachment. What do you think about that . Unacceptable. I did nothing wrong. Why wont you permit the Secretary Of State or the acting white house Chief Of Staff to testify . Well, i would. Id like them to testify but these are very unfair hearings. I want them to testify, but i want them to testify in the senate where theyll get a fair trial. Which brings us to our
leadoff discussion. Tfye with us from london and traveling with the president , shannon pettypiece, veteran journalist, senior White House Reporter for nbc news digital. Maya wiley, former Assistant Attorney for the Southern District of new york now with the new school here in new york, and lanhee chen back with us, Research Fellow at the hoover institution, former president iar Campaign Adviser to marco rubio and mitt romney. Good evening to all of you. Counselor, id like to begin with you. I heard a lawyer on cable tonight say this is much more direct and serious and damning and specific than any similar document in all previous impeachments of johnson, nixon, and clinton. In your reading of this, did they make the case . Will the American People agree they made the case . How many of the American People are going to read all 300 pages . Well, number one, they not only made the case, reading it
was like seeing a flood of evidence and having read it after reading the republican version of a report the prebuttal. They didnt even have a sandbag to hold back the waters that are in this report. Let me just you actually already identified some of the key points, but this is really d laying out a play in three acts. What they can do going to your question about whether people will pay attention, its really not 300 pages. You could boil it down to 20 pretty easily. They laid out a clear time line, but its three acts. One is the direct involvement of the president in setting up the drug deal. The second act is after the preparation is bringing home the drug deal. And then the third act is getting caught in the drug deal. Once you do that, you can pinpoint the specific points that are very clear, very simple
in the report, documented with evidence that shows Donald Trumps direct involvement. You pointed to one of the most damning, which is the exchange of the statement that the ukrainians were supposed to make. One of the very specific pieces of evidence in the report is one august 9th, the day before that exchange of the actual text of what the ukrainians were supposed to say, there are calls from Rudy Giuliani and sondland. Sondland makes two calls to the white house. After those two calls totaling 20 minutes to the white house, he then texts kurt volker and says potus really wants the deliverable, which he said in testimony, meant the announcement of those investigations. That is donald trump directing, and that is hard evidence and there has been no rebuttal to
that. Shannon, thank you so much for getting up way too early toi talk to us on live television, tonight our time, morning your time. Is there any way to measure was this worse than what was expected if for no other reason the presence of these phone logs, which are very hard to explain away as maya noted . That is a new twist that the white house and the president s advisers werent expecting. I will note the white house has been in the dark on this process because theyve not really been cooperating. They have refused to participate in this event. So that means their lawyers dont have access to what the witnesses are handing over or what these committees might have. So that could come as a surprise. The idea that the president s personal lawyer, who the president has repeatedly said is his personal lawyer, the white house has referred to him as an individual citizen, calling the Situation Room five times, as you noted. S has a es this call to this negative one number who we dont know who
that belongs to, but i will point out that other people i have seen have noted that negative one number also came up in the Roger Stone Trial when roger stone was having conversations with the president. So we dont know definitively that, but that implication is out there. And we had seen the poll number starting to sort of trend down a bit when it came to support for impeachment, particularly among independents. That seemed to boost a bit in the past week or so after the public hearings. Fo so we have to watch with this sort of new its sort of a turn of the screw. Even though this is a big reporn and very definitive, its sort of one more step to see what happens then. The president has had an opportunity overseas to sidestep this, to appear busy, being president ial and working on behalf of the American People, but he hasnt been able to help himself but wade back into this muck of impeachment while hes here when he gets asked about it
by reporters. He has a press Conference Today where hell certainly be asked about this and have an to opportunity to really go back at it if he wants to with democrats. And now to the brave lifelong republican sitting inh our midst. S i want to read you this from david frum on social media tonight. Smoking gun showing text of Draft Statement without burisma in 2016 elections and then updated text including those words. Lonnie, if you had to prove it, could you prove that thats a demand . Could you prove that that is indeed a quid pro quo or as david calls it a smoking gun . Yeah. Precisely to shannons point good morning. We have breaking news out of london where it is day two of the nato summit getting under way. The final day of the Nato Summit Commemorating 70 years of nato. We see marine one landing there as we are awaiting the president to exit for this final day of this two day summit there. They are about to give the official welcome there. After the class photo, the president will hold a bilateral meeting with her kill oig amera attend a working lunch with leaders and also hold a Press Conference later this morning. Stephen miller there ahead of the president s arrival. Earlier we saw turkish president erdogan arriving. Much of the conversations have been whether the president would
meet with president erdogan. It was not on his calendar, but they will be enter acting today as all the World Leaders descend for this find day of summit. Act as all the World Leaders descend for this find day of summit. Lets questigo to erin mclaughl. Good to talk to you. It has been quite a summit. The president has been criticizing macrEmmanuel Macron. And i believe that could be the President Landing now. But take us through what we can expect today with the president. Reporter well, we can expect a show of unit iy at some Pointa Summit Celebrating 70 years of the alliance. We heard from the nato secretarygeneral earlier today
say that nato is the most Effective Alliance in history, trying to project strength but also noting the differences, differences which of course were on full display during yesterdays bilateral meeting between President Trump and president maed in macron, Macron Standing by his previous statements that the alliance is experiencing a a brain death, something the president had been critical of saying it was a nasty comments. But president macron saying there is too much of a focus on burden sharing, something that is a top priority for President Trump, and not enough focus on strategic direction, pointing to the alliances definition of terrorism as an example. That europes definition of terror is very different than say turkish president erdogans
definition definiti definition of terror. That is one example of the differences that macron needs to be ironed out. But there is a three hour meeting today and that is not a lot of time. Expected to hear the leaders talk, each having three it four meetings to address the alliance. We also expect a number of bilateral meetings throughout the day that President Trump will be taking part in, he will be sitting down with Angela Merkel, the danish Prime Minister and as well as the italian Prime Minister. Expecting him to arrive here very shortly. And i want to bring in now hans nicholsnichols. Good morning. We saw some contentious conversation yesterday to say the least between emmanuel
macron and President Trump. Are we expecting any similar fireworks today with then he might meet with today . Reporter potentially. It is donald trump. So the prospect for confrontation and for ceremony being set to the side are amgs hi always high. Nato summits are always a mixture of Public Ceremony and private substance. It is a little bit inverted with President Trump because a lot of times the substance gets discussed out in the open. And typically that is done Behind Closed Doors. We saw yesterday in over two hours of Media Engagement was him hashing out differences in front of World Leaders. He previewed it with the secretarygeneral of nato and then it came out in the open when he was sitting there with Emmanuel Macron. And it wasnt that he tried to clean it up, but he softened things a little bit when he was with his canadian counterpart. When you look at his traditional
nemesis, it is Angela Merkel. So i think that is when the real fireworks will start off in three, four hours. He isnt bound like he is here in the uk at least with his relationships with Boris Johnson, he isnt bound with merkel by any concerns that he might muddle her own election prospects because shes in the sunset of her career. So look to see how, not whether he criticizes merkel, but how he criticizes merkel and is it more domestically oriented or about germanys role in nato. And of course it will be book ended by a Press Conference where he will take questions from the full press corps. And as you talk about fireworks and were seeing the president arrive here, you think about the split screen that we will be seeing here at home today as you are seeing that Press Conference happening today around 10 20 or so with the
president where he meets with all these world leader, alongside the House Judiciary Committee here in the United States launching its impeachment inquiry. Reporter you will have another attack on process from the president of the United States. It is clearly their plan, and they telegraph this in numerous ways, to not give any credence to this next round of the impeachment inquiry, the formal hears in the judiciary commit e committee. Well likely hear the revival of the line that it is unpatriotic to do this while their president is on foreign soil conducting Foreign Policy. The irony in all of this is that is precisely what the president is potentially going to be impeached about, and that is how he conducted Foreign Policy through his personal benefit. So i expect the president will get asked about Rudy Giuliani and how frequently he was in contact with him because there is a mystery in the footnotes of that report from house intel. But expect a similar line from the president and the only
question i have is how much will he amp up his personal criticism of either nancy pelosi or adam schiff who yesterday he had some strong words for. Hans, thank you. I want to bring in now jack jacobs. Colonel jacobs, i want to talk about the Power Struggle that is going on there at the meetings. We have a vision it seems like Emmanuel Macron is trying to enforce parallel with what President Trump and the rest of the nato allies here are trying to accomplish there. And can you talk a little bit about the different visions for the future of nato . Well, it is interesting that macron is leaping to the fore here. The president used to have kind words for macron, but not lat y lately. The trump view, American View,
initially is that nato was irrelevant, that our interests did not coincide with europe. And that got macrons hackles up. He perceived that there was a power vacuum in nato and that is one of the reasons why he became something of a spokesman for nato interests, european nato interests. The differences are Something Like this as far as trump is concerned, the United States interests and european interests do not coincide. And very much concerned with how much money the European Nations were contributing to nato. On trumps side, the fact is that the United States does contribute a lot more to nato, to European Defense than do youre pea European Nations. And european expenses have increased actually since trumps
criticism. But we have to remember that the United States has worldwide interests and as a result we contribute a great deal more to our own National Defense than European Nations do to theirs. For macron and for other European Nations, the worldwide threats to europe are not the same as we perceive them to be. For the European Nations, what is of the utmost interests is terrorism. And focus on terrorism is going to continue to be macrons mantra during this meeting and you will expect to see fireworks about that during the meeting and outside the meetings as they discuss it with the press. And terrorism and just where those isis fighters are coming from and the imprisoned ones and where they will be sent back was at the heart of the conversation yesterday between macron and
President Trump. All right. Colonel jacobs, thank you so much. And i want to bring in tom swarbrick. Good morning to you. Thank you so much for joining us on this. Lets talk Boris Johnson here. As we well know, it seems as if Boris Johnson has tried to keep somewhat of a distance from the president and the president was asked today to weigh in on Boris Johnsons future and he decided tlot do so. The president of the United States not necessarily popular in the uk as you well know. Talk to us about how this is having an impact, what type of impact this is having just around the corner for Boris Johnson. As you say, everything is being viewed from the prism of the general election here. And actually as corbyn and johnson have slugged this out,
right at the start donald trump appeared on lbc radio, the station i work at, and talked about how Jeremy Corbyn would be bad for brings contintain. And since then, corbyn has used trumps unpopularity as a stick, saying that both men are liars and that johnson and trump will sell off the nhs during any brexit deal. That is why Donald Trumps words on the nhs and the election more broadly are loaded here because he has sort of been at the heart of the general Election Campaign over this side of the atlantic. And trump is stepping back from that. As i heard him yesterday, he sort of walked back his comments about Jeremy Corbyn saying that i can work with anyone, i dont know much about this guy. And that was seized on here quickly but it is remarkable here that we have a huge summit of a very, very Important Institution taking place in
london and the uk Prime Minister is actively trying to avoid being seen with the president of the United States. That is quite a balance. I want to talk about that for just a moment. How does he play both sides here . Seemingly he is the biggest ally that trump seems to have at this very moment at this summit that they are hosting there in london. How does he deal with that, juggle that while Still Holding him at arms length . I think that there will be a lot of preprep that has gone into this, calls that have gone between trump and johnson or between their people to try to get the message through conducts Behind Closed Doors. While it might be publicly separated, privately they had a meeting last night at number 10. No cameras allowed. But still those talks went on. And in fact there is a video circulating, talking about behind closed door, of justin
trudeau, mark ritter, Boris Johnson all in Buckingham Palace seemingly laughing about the president of the United States and why he may have been late and how peoples jaws have Hit The Floor during some of his Press Conferences. And in that group was Palestinian Sa princess ann. So you have this scene of the World Leaders and a member of the royal family laughing at the president of the United States behind his back. The president tweeted and saying enjoyed my meeting with were ris johns Boris Johnson, talked about numerous subjects. So it seems like the president is not necessarily playing into that narrative of distancing himself. And i think any mention of the nhs, that tweet is kind of vague, talked about numerous subjects. If he had mentioned about nhs, talked about Jeremy Corbyn, that would be seized upon. So i think the president is playing the diplomatic game as far as he can. You mentioned the scene almost out of mean girls where they are in that group talking about President Trump that way. And you have to wonder what his standing is and how it has been diminished. He is still the leader of the most powerful nation on earth here, but like you said, President Trump has long said that he is with him we so that being laughingstock. He was always talking about how now that he is president , people arent laughing at the United States anymore, yet were seeing Video Evidence that that is absolutely the not the case anymore. The guy is there our Point Of View is mesmerizing to watch. You never know what is coming next. Obviously the consequences of that are massive. On nato itself, actually his argument is pretty well understood, an argument that obama was making and hes had some success. Hes gotten some nations to
increase their spending. But the method of making that happen is obviously new, unique, very, very different. And certainly from my own time in Downing Street whenever the president was on the call with the former Prime Minister, people would at times have their head in their hands, they would be amazed at the way in which the president was trying to put across his own Point Of View because he is just shooting from the lip. And that is very new in world geo strategic diplomacy, not something that weve got used to. And for the royal family to see him operate in a different style, something that they can clearly bond over as they are having a drink at Buckingham Palace. Stand by for us if you have the time. I want to bring back hans nichols into the conversation. We know syria and turkey will be on the agenda today and speaking about what took place in regards to pulling troops out of Northeast Syria and abandoning the kurds and why that happened
and how to combat terrorism in the region. Im wondering if iran will be on the agenda. Weve seen recent reports were hundreds of people were killed, where the irgc literally surrounded people killing them one by one. And it is a devastating situation and we dont have a lot of information coming you out of the country because the internet was shut down in that country. I imagine it is top of mind for many World Leaders today. From what you have heard, do you know if this is going to be part of the discussion today . Reporter the president indicated yesterday that he wants to talk about iran. He mentioned it three times. Remember the first Media Engagement, he talked about thousands being killed. And then it seemed that he was practicing restraint when he was asked about whether or not he has a message for the protestors
in iran. And that is when he said not really. And then he was asked directly do you support them and he said no. But it is clear that he was hoflding holding his fire and he didnt want to Say Something undiplomatic. And then at the next Media Engagement, he said we absolutely Sooupt Tupport the Appropria Protestors in iran. And the two main differences between trump and macron, should nato be focused to the east or the south. Is this a counter Russia Organization or is it more about counterterrorism. The president and macron in some ways are on the same page there. They think it should be counter terrorism. And leave the funding aside, but the big difference with macron is on the issue of what do you do about turkey. Macron was very stark on that in saying that you cannot have a
nato ally fighting against partners who are with us in defeating isis. And that is as you kurds. I do think President Trump came close to articulating a new policy in The Middle East at least in syria and he says yes, he will be there for the oil being Bbut Yesterday was the first time that he acknowledged that he need a force there to knock down isis if they ever crop up again. Previously his rhetoric is that the caliphate has been 100 has been defeated. Yesterday indicating there is a couple hundred troops, 500, 600, that are around the town. And the president indicated he wants them there to continue to combat isis if it comes back. And that is something that his pentagon has been pushing on him for some time. Now, there are a lot of differences on turkey in syria and well see to what extent the
leaders can finesse them and whether it is Behind Closed Doors or whether it gets more stark out in the open. And it is interesting as you say that it seems as if the president is sort of laying out a different strategy when it comes to syria because as you mentioned, his Military Leaders have been saying for quite some time that this has been the strategy Going Forward and the president and his Military Leaders have not necessarily been on the same page. Do you think this is actually coming to light now because the president s feet are being held to the fire by some of these leaders like Emmanuel Macron . Reporter maybe. But i dont think that there is a whole lot of tangible evidence that donald trump has changed his position based on what foreign leaders say. Id be pretty skrept cal about that. But that has been the challenge for his own general secretary mattis on trying to convince the president to have a more Robust International presence throughout the globe. Whether that is in south korea or syria. So maybe he has modified a
little bit based on and were seeing something new with the president where he is modifying his behavior and his rhetoric. There may be some credence to that because as tom was mentioning, the last 24 hours weve seen restraint is the wrong word, but a lightly restrained President Trump at least as it relates to the election process spepspects of n doctor s son. He has been briefed that the nhs is an explosive issue here in the uk. The president was noticeably restrained is yesterday as it related to the latest upcoming election. I think that we see Boris Johnson arriving now. You know, the secretarygeneral of nato, he and trump have actually come a long way. And so ill reverse myself and
say when you look at leaders in nato, he has managed to massage the president and move and direct and shunt his rhetoric a little bit more towards a pan nato pro nato conversation. And that has to do with funding which is what so many nato leaders even starting with the Obama Administration were decrying other nato members for. Not contributing directly enough to the security of nato in a variety of missions. So it is always a huge issue. One other thing that i think should be on our agenda is afghanistan. The president s isolationist impulses are always on display. He is hinting that talks with the taliban are starting back up again, that they want peace and they will have conversations. Afghanistan really because it is a nato mission there, part of it, afghanistan gives you an
indication of where nato countries contribute and what their numbers are. And you can see where the president might go on that when he talks about drawing u. S. Troops down from afghanistan, will he ask other countries to continue to support the mission there. I want to talk about that restraint you were talking about with President Trump. You clearly has had Foreign Policy briefings in the past ahead of these foreign trips here. But that has never stopped him before as far as what comes out of his mouth. So what do you think is the difference now . Reporter an election. The president spent the last six to eight weeks trying to get republican governors across the line in these off year elections, there is kentucky, mississippi, and louisiana as well. He lost two of those, but that is language that the president understands where he says if you go to him with a brief and say your potential rhetoric here could hurt a potential ally,
whether a republican governor or Prime Minister that he is close with, that is something that the president intuitively understands and likes calling it, likes understanding it, likes sort of having his own crystal ball and trying to influence those events. Remember when he was here in i think it was 2016 when he claims that he called brexit, right . He clearly said he thought brexit was going to hatcppen. Remember the president s mother was born in scotland. He has an infinity for this country and in some way he thinks he reads the political currents here in ways that he might not say he does in italy or denmark or germany. And as were watching Boris Johnson and the nato secretarygeneral stoltenberg greeting all these leader, talk about stoltenbergs leadership. From what i understand, he is the longest serving nato
secretarygeneral and he was actually kept in place because many of the World Leaders feared that if in fact he left, then u. S. President trump would have more influence as to what the next leader of nato would be. So they decided to keep him in plate. So the challenge of nato is not that you are rattling a tin cup, but you are trying to get all the members to give what they can. And let them see that it is in their interests to have contributions to missions across the globe. What stoltenberg i think has done barely successfully is that he has convinced other countries to take Donald Trumps argument and to use it for domestic purposes. So you will see Secretary Defense in germany who has moved over to the eu, but trumps rhetoric about spending more actually helped her. Europe hasnt quite decided where they want to go from the pan force. But at least in the defense ministries, it is not an acknowledgement, but more of an interest in wanting to spend more. And so when thehe alternative i questioning article 5onif t, alternative is spending more, that is an argument that some in nato actually appreciate. I remember president obama in ottawa and his line was we need more canada. And that is the u. S. And canada that has very close relations. So the previous president was also pushing nato countries to spend more on defense. There is an entirely separate question on where that money should be spent. On general defense or some sort of Counterterrorism Force and that gets us back to the
discussion of isis and isis fighters. But extremism in general. And back to iran real quickly, the stark differences on iran are what do you do to try to get them back into some sort of nuclear agreement. If that breaks out into the open today, we will see real differences and they wont be able to paper over it diplomatically. And i want to bring tom back in here. As we are watching Prime Minister Boris Johnson here greeting the other World Leaders and members of nato, as host here, what is Boris Johnsons primary objective ahead of the elections . I think it is to get through to be quite honest. I dont think that there is anything greater than that from the public and press Point Of View. Just to not have the situation blow up in his face which we could see later with the Trump Press Conference given that we are so close to that election date. On the substance, yes, a lot of talk about terrorism and whether nato should be more focused on
that, a lot of talk whether it is to the south or east that nato looks. And the other thing that i gather is being discussed for the first time is the strategic threat of china. Clearly trump is in the middle of this trade spat but it is having an effect on europe, not just financially and economically, but also from a defense Point Of View. Whatever is going on in the South China Sea is attracting friga frigates. Italy is signing a memorandum of understanding with the chinese that italy doesnt like because of the trade talks with the chinese. So that is splitting europe and potentially splitting nato. So on the issue of substance, there a heck of a lot for Boris Johnson to achieve out of this. But as you said, everything is going through the Election Prism right now and even frankly the handshake with donald trump, if there it is a hug, people will
take note of that, Jeremy Corbyn will seize on that and say look, the two trumps are aligned. And we just saw Angela Merkel there greeting Prime Minister Boris Johnson. And how focused is the public in the uk on this substantive things that Boris Johnson accomplishes that comes out of that nato meeting . Not massively. Obviously terrorism is something that the uk has been dealing with frankly for too long and all too recently. We had a Terrorist Attack on friday that killed two people. So dealing with isis and other Terrorist Groups is a massive problem that the uk is facing, but it wont be solved in the next few hours at this nato summit. So as much as the public arent necessarily focused on the substantive outcomes from this,
the way the style of it is definitely something that people will want to take note of and how that plays out over the next few days will be very important. Particularly as i mentioned earlier, Jeremy Corbyn from the labour party, almost his entire Election Strategy has been pivoting around Donald Trumps appearance in the uk over these two days. Donald trump has been the person in the ring with johnson and corbyn over the last few weeks. And so whatever comes out of this, if there is even a hint of talk of the nhs, a hint of talk about how Jeremy Corbyn might be bad for the uk as donald trump has previously suggested, that will be seized upon and that will become the substance. I want to bring back in colonel jack jacobs. I was curious about the political predicament that donald trump is facing here at home and how that may affect the calculous of other World Leaders when they deal with him and that Power Struggle for the future of nato. Do you think his influence is diminished at all because of the predicament here at home . One is prompted to say yes, but the history of donald trump in fora like this is probably unchanged. He has been gles Liaeeen Dougme since the beginning but it hasnt had an affect on what takes place in europe and the way in which the american government, european governments work together. At the military level, a lot of these politics are more or less irrelevant. The Military Establishment Works with other Military Establishments around the gleb witho globe without respect to what the president of the United States says or how he interacts with World Leaders. I think one of the major differences now is something
that we mentioned earlier and that is the change in the focus of what World Leaders think nato should be working on. I mean, the continental europeans are very much concerned with terrorism, immigration from countries to the south, the flux of people across borders and so on, this is a major defense problem. And they are less concerned with other variables on the fence of the european continent. And the American View is very much different. If you talk to military people, American Military people, they will tell you our focus certainly is on The Middle East, but we have long term strategic plans to defend the european
continent against incursions from the east and that wont change. And conversations between American Military leaders at the top of The Food Chain and European Military leaders at the top of The Food Chain, that hasnt changed. And Donald Trumps impact on that is going to be unchanged as well. Colonel, were getting news from reuters now basically out of russia saying that news that nato plans to increase its Defense Spending confirms the russian concerns over the alliances expansion. Could you react to that for us . Yeah, im not surprised at all. As a matter of fact, i think that well see increasing expenditures even in difficult Economic Times from europe on defense generally. Dont forget that the United States has a significant number of americans deployed in europe. We have them deployed in the baltic countries, primarily
because of the russian threat. I think is always a twid, pardon t quid pro quo, pardon the expression, but a lot of Money Trading Places in natos interests. The biggest problem other than the split between the American Military view that russia is a bigger threat than the europeans perceive, is our operations in The Middle East. You know, we talked earlier about the change in the american attitude in our deployments in syria. The president wanted to take everybody out of there. And in fact ordered that to do so. Not long after that, we went back in or we with drew in syria and then went back in
ostensibly to defend oil, but that is a sham. We went back in because we werent going to leave in the first place and cooler heads prevailed, the president was convinced by Military Leaders that precipitous withdraw from against our interests in The Middle East and to our allies and our interests worldwide and that is why they went back ostensibly to gnd tdefend the oilfields because were really there to continue to defeat isis. And you bring up syria and we just saw president erdogan there. This is the moment where all the World Leaders are in one place, that we have not seen for the last 48 hours. This is the moment where they could feezbly hold easibly hold feet to the fire. The president of United States did not hold turkeys feet to the fire as some criticized him for. Do you believe that will happen here today . I think that the europeans are liable to say plenty of stuff publicly about the lack of fealty in turkey. Ill be surprised if the president says anything about it, but the one thing that you are liable to hear from the president on the subject of turkey is the concern about turkey is cozying up with russia and turkeys much of Russian Missile symptoms. You are liable to hear from the some had on that but a lot more from the European Countries publicly. And can you give us any knowledge and expand on that a little bit for us . Yesterday we heard from the president basically saying the reason why turkey had to buy missiles from russia is because the Obama Administration wouldnt sell them to russia, so
turkey had to make a turn and buy what they needed from russia. Can you talk to us about that . Yeah, i think that that is for domestic political consumption. To go back to the relationship between American Military leaders and Military Leaders in other countries including turkey, the conversation is very much different. There is a great deal about those decisions. Foreign Military Leaders will say they have no control over the decisions that are made like that when in actual fact nothing could be further from the truth. Like into the United States, Military Leaders have a great deal of influence on the Weapons Systems that are purchased and used and developed. A lot of it has to do with the Military Influence in that country. But i think that the president s public pronouncement on that purchase notwithstanding one has
to perceive that that is mostly for american domestic political consumption. I would still be surprised if you hear as much consternation from our president about this than you will hear s as you will hear from the europeans. The europeans are very much concerned about the drift of turkey away from nato to follow what it perceives its own interests and the interests and were now watching President Trump and his arrival standing there between stolenburg and Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Is there anybody, colonel, there at the summit who will hold President Trump to account, anybody that has the clout to hold him to account for the abandonment of the kurds . Well, macron is something
of i mentioned it before but sure seems like with the president announcing that early on in the presidency that we were going to effectively withdraw from the world stage, america first, were interested in our own interests and that is domestic rather than international, that was a wrn warning sign and macron is the person who stepped into the breach. Dont forget britain has its own internal difficulties. Merkel wont be around for leadership very much longer. So macron has stepped into the breach and i think that you will hear more from him than you will from anybody else. Colonel, lets talk about the elephant in the room which is iran. I touched on this a bit with hans earlier. We had seen reports out of iran which im sure you have seen as well. Hundreds of People Killed by the
irgc due to the increasing gas prices, there were protests that had been ramped up in iran over the last couple weeks. The irgc opened fire on a number of protestors in that country. The government admitting to it, disputing the numbers but nonetheless hundreds killed in that country during these protests. I imagine this is going to be top of mind as i mentioned to hans earlier for World Leaders there, that along with the jcpoa. You cant help but think how World Leaders move forward with iran trying to convince the president to get back into an agreement with iran when in fact we are seeing some of the devastating reports that weve seen over the last couple weeks coming out of that country. I think that you will see the president going the other way, saying that hes vindicated now. I mean, we see iran firing on
its own people and that indicates that you have a bankrupt leadership there hand he has to put the squeeze on. He doesnt believe that they can be trustworthy and so on. No, i think that you will see even more tough rhetoric from the president on the subject of iran and i dont think that being conciliatory is in the cards here for the United States. With respect to what is happening internally there, you might remember that some years ago, there were a Million People in the streets in tehran. I think that was on a friday. The next day after the revolutionary guards went around knocking peoples heads and shooting people youre saying during the Green Movement in 2009 . Correct. So the numbers in the streets went from one million, next day about 5,000 and then after a few more people were killed the next day, there were zero. No demonstrations. This is not necessarily the same
thing. But i have to tell you that it is unlikely the situation inside the country is unlikely to change dramatically over time. And i think that the president s perception is that that is hes been told that that is the case and i think that he will get the rhetoric will be tougher on the american side. So if you are in the room, what is the way forward here . With iran . Yeah. Well, weve all said time and time again that when president wilson, woodrow wilson, said we need to have public pacts publicly arrived at, that he was only half right. We need public pacts, but the only way that you can get good public pacts that can be released to the public if you arrive at them secretly, conducting policy formulation in public, conducting discussions about policy, conducting the
formulation of pacts in public is the silliest thing in the world to do because people get entrenched in their public positions and they cant back off. The way to conduct diplomacy is to do it in private. Youve heard a lot of complaints from americans in the State Department about how weak the State Department is, that is at least partially a function of how the president of the United States has tried to conduct policy in public. The way to get something done with iran it bring iran to heal is to do it in private and do it with our allies in europe and elsewhere, continuing to do it in public is not going to get us anywhere. Iran will continue to dig its heels in because at the regime itself who is on the reasons has nothing to lose if it continues to do what it is doing now. Colonel jacobs, what do you think it will take to make the Trump Administration prioritize iran with all the other things that are on the table at this very moment . Well, that is interesting. The president of the United States speaks to and listens to a very, very small number of people. I talked to someone who was in the white house some time ago, not in the white house, and said how do you influence the president. And he said, you know, during duty hours, i can affect the flow of information into and outside and from the oval office. But after duty hours, there is no way that you can control to whom the president speaks and to whom he listens to. I think the only way the president is going to be able to form some kind of policy and a
hoe d way to get him to his objective, if people to whom he listens, manage to convince him to do it that way. But i got to tell you, it is an uphill battle because dont forget were in an election process, a domestic election process, and first and foremost in the president s mind and in the minds of people who he is closest to is his reelection. So i dont think that well get much progress on that score. Colonel, as we approach the top of the hour and were seeing Secretary Of State mike pompeo is there getting ready to kick off the last day of this two day nato summit, i cant help but think about trust here, especially considering what just took place in syria with abandoning of the kurds. Is there a sense you think from your perspective in this room at this point that you cant necessarily trust the united
states as much as one could have 20 years ago amongst nato leaders . Well, i think it is not just among nato leaders. I think there is a perception worldwide that the United States under trump would like to withdraw from the world stage, that the United States cannot be trusted and that is why a lot of leaders are turning to other means of being able to influence their defense policy. To all of our guests, we thank you so much for sticking with us throughout this last hour. It is the top of the hour, everybody. It is 5 00 a. M. , you have just watched the beginning of the second day of the nato summit with World Leaders descending on london to wrap up what has been an eventful 48 hours or so. We saw the president greeting Boris Johnson and well see what comes out of the next day or so. Well be watching for his Press Conference at 10 00 a. M
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