Trump administration now. Yet again we have breaking news tonight. Yet again it pertains to the president s lawyer and allaround side kick Rudy Giuliani. Rudy is under investigation by federal prosecutors in the Southern District of new york, in effect the Justice DepartmentManhattan Office where he himself once served as u. S. Attorney. The feds are investigating whether President Trumps personal lawyer broke lobbying laws in the deals in the ukraine and are examining mr. Giulianis efforts to undermine the American Ambassador to ukraine. Mr. Giuliani said federal prosecutors had no grounds to charge him with foreign lobbying disclosure violations because he was acting on behalf of mr. Trump not the prosecutor when he collected the information on mrs. Yovanovitch and others. Members of Congress Heard more than nine hours of damning testimony from that former ambassador considered such a critical witness in the democrats theory. Marie yovanovitch is a 33 year ambassador. She served in 7 different countries, three as ambassador. In her prepared statement he wrote that the deputy of secretary of state told her there had been a Concerted Campaign against me and that the department had been under pressure from the president to remove me. As rudys criticism of her, she wrote i do not know mr. Giulianis motives for attacking me. Context may believe that corruption was stymied by anticorruption in ukraine. She adds we see the state department hollowed out from within. Yovanovitch was pushed out as giuliani looked into the questions about the bidens. Today the president was asked about the former ambassador. Did you put pressure to have her fired . She may be a wonderful woman i dont know her. She may be very much a wonderful woman. If you remember the phone call i had with the president , the new president , he didnt speak favorably. I just dont know her. She may be a wonderful woman. But trump did bring up yovanovitch on that july 25 phone call with the president of ukraine. He is quoted in the document handed out by the white house as saying the former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the ukraine were bad news so i just want to let you know that. He added shes going to go through some things. House intel chairman adam schiff praised the ambassador tonight. I think shes a courageous example for others, and i think all the members were extraordinarily impressed with her testimony today. We will continue with other witnesses, not withstanding the administrations consistent efforts to obstruct our investigation. Now, more diplomats are going to be heading to capitol hill next week to testify in the impeachment inquiry. Fiona hill considered a hawk. She is scheduled to be there on monday. And trump donor Gordon Sondland who was rewarded with his efforts to title ambassador to the eu says hes going to testify thursday after the white house, youll recall, blocked his testimony earlier in the week. For a second night in a row, trump was front and center at a campaign rally, this one in lake charles, louisiana, tonight. He yet again tore into the impeachment inquiry and a heads up as you may know, hes now regularly swearing at public events. The radical democrats policies are crazy, their politicians are corrupt, their candidates are terrible, and they know they cant win an election, so theyre pursuing an illegal, invalid and unconstitutional bullshit impeachment. Presuming he will use different language for his speech before evangelical christians tomorrow in washington. Yes, by the way, there was a departure from the trump cabinet tonight. But thats going to have to wait for our next segment. Its the kind of friday night were having around here. And for that, lets turn to our lead off Discussion Panel in a moment. First we are joined on the phone by michael schmidt, Pulitzer Prize winning washington correspondent for the new york times. Among those breaking the giuliani story tonight. Michael, obviously the headline is a former u. S. Attorney is under federal investigation. More than that, a former mayor of new york and close friend of our president. But how serious a charge would this be . Well, as youre pointing out its pretty unusual. This is the same office where giuliani rose to prominence in the 1980s, catapulting him to becoming mayor of new york city. So, it is that office, the most Aggressive Office in the country, the one with the most talented prosecutors in the country that is going after this issue here. Now, how serious is it . Look, cases are often difficult to make, but the problem is that once you head down one path you can often find other things. Giuliani has been very public about his ties to ukraine. And that has probably given prosecutors a lot of insight into where they should examine. But at the same time, its just yet another distraction for the president and we should note the second time that one of his lawyers had found himself under investigation by that office since he became president. You slipped in a term of art there called this a fara case. Can you tell the folks what that stands for . These are lobbying laws that are designed to prevent foreigners from influencing the United States, from using americans to push what they would like us to do within this country. So, in this case, were ukrainians trying to use mr. Giuliani to impact american policy. Did ukrainians want to have the United States ambassador to kiev removed . Why was that ambassador remove and how is giuliani using his authority . If you think about a typical presidency and i realize that may be hard to imagine right now. But in a typical presidency, its hard to see a lawyer for the president also being entangled with Foreign Governments and foreign business men and such. But that is the situation that giuliani finds himself in. And to the average federal prosecutor, it probably looks a bit curious just from the outside. Last question as i know you were able to join us by telephone. How was it that pompeos name came up in this today . Its specifically on this story, pompeos name did not come up. There was no indication that they were that this is anything to do with pompeo. And, you know, obviously the removal of the ambassador though is something that happened at the state department, that ambassador as you pointed out was up on capitol hill today testifying. But what was the true motivation behind why the ambassador was removed . Its similar to the question about the aid. What was the true motivation for why the administration withheld. We have a preview of next these are the questions that have been here less than a month. Thank you for calling in. Were here for a leadoff discussion. Frank siglusi. And veteran federal prosecutor and former u. S. Attorney, Barbara Mcquade here with us in our new york studios. Due to hometown advantage, barbara you get to go first. How sensitive a business is it for the Southern District of new york, the Justice Departments office in new york often called the sovereign district of new york because of their power, how sensitive is it to look into a guy like rudy . And do you think theyre looking into other things as well . It is unprecedented i think for a former u. S. Attorney to be investigated by his or her former office. Im sure it is considered a matter of very significant magnitude in that office. But they wouldnt undertake it if they didnt believe there were potentially serious violations of the law. Mike schmidt mentioned the Foreign Agency registration act which means accepting money from a Foreign Government to lobby american politicians. That is some of the allegations of these two associates in the indictment that was filed yesterday. And so if he was implicated in that, he could be charged as well. One really interesting thing is there have been people talking about President Trump throwing Rudy Giuliani under the bus. We could see at some point Rudy Giuliani throwing President Trump under the bus. He said today he was acting with authority of the president of the United States. He is going to have an opportunity if he is charged to flip and tell what he knows. If its the president of the United States putting him up to these things, that could be a serious matter. As the commercial says he knows a thing or two because hes seen a thing or two. Frank, what do you assume about the role of surveillance in this case, in this story, and very possibly in the life and devices of one Rudy Giuliani . Well, as barbara alluded to, you adopt have a u. S. Attorneys office going after a former attorney and their former boss without them having solid predication to do so. When i read the indictment on rudys two associates, i see a level of details, quotes, attributions to the Foreign National number one, times, places, filings that seem to indicate there might be court authorized wiretaps in this case. And if thats the case, then its possible that Rudy Giuliani was intercepted inadvertently, not that he was the target necessarily, but that he was picked up on electronic surveillance. If thats the case, he needs to be much more careful than hes been today. The statement that he made to mike schmidt in response to mikes article as barbara said that i wasnt working for the ukrainians, i was working for trump. That kind of thing is going to be held up against what they have on tape if they have it, what they have from human sources. And as is usually the case when rudy opens his mouth, he may have defended himself a fara charge but certainly threw trump under the bus saying i was working at the direction of president of the United States. Thats a problem. Of course, frank, it also means we can get ready for more charges of spying, no doubt. Hey, phil, i want to play for you what trump said prior to departing for louisiana. Well talk about it on the other side. [ inaudible question ] well, i dont know. I havent spoken to rudy. I spoke to him yesterday briefly. Hes a very good attorney and he has been my attorney, yeah, sure. Any echos of anything familiar there that the president has ever said about perhaps any other lawyers in his orbit . Yeah, brian. Weve seen this time and time again with the president where somebody gets into a scandal or hot water of any kind he tries to distance himself from them. After Paul Manafort was indicted in the russia investigation, we heard from the president that Paul Manafort barely knew him, hardly worked on my Campaign Even though he was the campaign chairman. Very short period of time. Exactly. And Rudy Giuliani has been a friend, a close associate of Donald Trumps for decades now. They are friendly from new york that predates trumps political campaign. Of course rudy was his side kick throughout the campaign in 2016 and has been his most prominent defender on television and one of his lead lawyers for two years now. So, you know, thats an interesting distancing we saw at the white house there. Its notable by the way that President Trump said that giuliani has been by lawyer, not giuliani is my lawyer. We should note also that giuliani told reporters tonight that he does remain the president s personal attorney and that his status with the president has not changed. Barb, youre our resident former fed. Help us out on a matter of law. Ambassador yovanovitch goes before the committees for nine hours talking about ukraine. At the invitation of the house of representatives. What if the evidence she shares, the statements she commits intersect with a federal investigation even though it was house sponsored, who does that information get to belong to . How does that work . Typically both organizations will share information with each other. There is nothing to prevent the Southern District of new york of separately interviewing her and gathering that information or requesting the transcript from her testimony today. Where it gets tricky is when one wants to give immunity to a witness because it can impact the other. We saw that in the case of oliver north where congress immunized oliver north and that scuttled his testimony in his criminal case. They have to work carefully together and one hopes the lawyers are talking to each other if they want to go down those parallel tracks. Frank what about the people watching who would be within their rights to say you guys, i thought the whole story, i thought the original sin was russias involvement in our election. All im hearing is ukraine . Well, understand something, that this is the bright shiny object that the administration wants us to focus on instead of russia. They want us to think that ukraine was behind all of the wrong doing, all of the conspiracy to mess with the election and thats what this is all about. Heres the truth. Russias come up again even in the ukrainian investigation because the two guys arrested that are associates of rudys of course were tied up with Foreign National number one. Foreign National Number one is russian. This is russian money flowing into the 2018 election and or state elections. So, this hasnt stopped at all, and its the 2018 election. And theres no sign of it stopping because the president has dismantled the very body thats supposed to monitor this, the federal election commission, fec, doesnt even have a bit of members to sit and provide monitoring for the next election. Phil rucker, help me out with one more thing. In the news room tonight getting ready to go on the air, i thought i heard the president Say Something in louisiana. We played it back. He did indeed Say Something in louisiana that im going to play for you now. And were going to defeat socialism and put a man on the face of the moon. Phil, whos going to tell him . Brian, weve already put a man on the moon. A dozen of them. But this gets yeah. This gets to the president S Space Force priority which is something hes very proud of and likes to talk about and is a big hit at the rallies. But, you know, everybody any student of American History or anybody who lived through that period of america know that is we put a man on the moon. 12 of them. Total of 24 feet Walking Around the moon. It was unbelievable. I remember it. Just thought we could use that at the end of our first segment on a long friday night after a long weekend. Our thanks to our first round of guest, phil, frank, barbara, and michael for joining us earlier coming up, another trump cabinet vacancy tonight. We have the late report on that and the possible replacement list. Plus the increasing concerns over the return of isis. Guess why. And the danger our own special forces are in with turkey on the attack following the green light from trump. And later the insiders who are starting to speak up now as a former u. S. Ambassador, a career civil servant, 33 year veteran lays down a marker of her own today bravely in washington. The 11th hour as we say just Getting Started on yet another eventful friday night. Your business can do a lot in 10 minutes. Like make a big sale. Surprise and delight a customer. Or come up with the winning idea. And 10 minutes is all you need to finally give your business the Internet Technology it really needs. Well prove it. Give us 10 minutes. If we cant offer you faster speed or better savings than your current internet service, well give you 300 dollars for your time. Call now to get your comcast business 10 minute advantage and take your business beyond. Comcast business. Beyond fast. This busy friday night of news saw yet another Trump Administration staff shake up. The president announcing on twitter, as its done now, that kevin mcleanen who had been the acting Homeland Security secretary since april and the fourth person to serve in that job is now out. Quote, we have worked well together with border crossings being way down. Kevin now wants to spend more time with his family and go to the private sector. We knew the end was near when last week mcleanen spoke candidly, what i dont have control over is the tone, the message, the public face and approach of the department in an increasingly polarized time. And said, thats uncomfortable as the accountable senior figure. Joining us to tonight to talk about his resignation, julia ainsley. Julia, is it true that acting secretary mcaleenan is looking to spend more time with his family. Its true he resigned and it shouldnt be a big surprise. A few things to note about Kevin Mcaleenan, he is somebody who served under the obama administration, long time civil servant. Then promoted to a political position. He lost control because of the tone because he is someone who focused on the push factors, the reasons people were leaving central america. But he should not be seen as a moderate. This is someone who wrote the memo that justified family separation in 2018 and this year as acting secretary has overseen the toughest immigration policies on asylum which forced Asylum Seekers t