Brian Williams examines the days top political stories and current politicalcampaign news. Brian Williams examines the days top political stories and current politicalcampaign news. Remind folks what that means . Yeah. Theres a question about the status of the ballot. Maybe a question about the status of the voter. They tend to be, i keep saying, they tend to be democratic ballots. They tend to be voters, especially in franklin county, from delaware county. Oftentimes, you find that sometimes in nonwhite areas. You start having i. D. , voter i. D. Requirements. Maybe it is folks who wont have i. D. So you end up getting a situation. When you look at the provisionals, they tend on come more from provisional counties. I think the number was Something Like 1,400. Came out of franklin. I think it may have been in the
democratic part. A lot of them end up being counted. Theyre cast provisionally and then theyre reviewed afterwards. All right. Well be back. Thank you so much. Lets bring in garrett, our correspondent who has been standing by. Garrett, i presume the party is thickening out. And i presume. And i presume win, lose or draw the attention now goes to november. Yeah, brian. The party is over here. Its just our team here keeping the lights on. This race isnt over. We heard from both candidates tonight in the Nonconcession Concession Speech and the not quite honest Victory Speech that wasnt quite a Victory Speech that this is not over. This race immediately transitions into november. You can think of this like a late primary almost. Setting up these two candidates again with now the republican potentially depending how all that Recall Business goes being able to call himself an incumbent in this case. But democrats like some of what they have seen on the ground here as they go into november in this race and in a lot of other races that will look like this in similar suburban counties. They feel like they fought a lot of this race especially the last couple of weeks on their issue turf, if you will, talking about things like protecting health care, Social Security benefits, issues that democrats want to be talking about. You werent seeing the republican hammering the democrat particularly effectively on things like the republican tax bill. So democrats fee like even if they got not quite all the way there on the numbers, the issue said here was something they can continue to work with. Whether this race itself stays as competitive in november when it is not the race on the calendar with both parties pouring in millions of dollars volunteers from All Over The Place coming and flooding the zone, thats a separate question. But there are blueprints laid
out in there race from both parties that they each think they can take back to some of these other races that be competitive in suburbs like this all over the country. Suburban houston looks similar to this where youve got some of the burbs and how do you balance that mix in this competitive environment. Garrett haake thanks for covering a dwindling crowd at the democratic headquarters in ohio 12 tonight. With us tonight in studio, former republican florida congressman david jolly and Kimberly Atkins agreed to stick around, Chief Washington reporter for the Boston Herald as has peter baker, correspondent for the New York Times thanks to all three of you for staying up late. Congressman, again, just a civics and kind of a Physical Plant question. The winner gets to be an incumbent member of congress. The winner will go, will get really bad office space. Theyll be on the bottom of the
seniority list. Hell get his predecessors office. You do inherit the office space . How does that work . I replaced the most Senior Member of congress. For eight months as a freshman, i had the best office on capital little. You had a beautiful view of the dome. Then reality sets in. But they cant move in. They cant feel as much as anyone can move in with a twoyear term. Lets say its 12 weeks before the next election. House is out till labor day. Because it is an election day, theyll be in for about three weeks. Whoever the incumbent is, they will be an incumbent for all of about three weeks. What they will do is spend every day back home and continuing to raise money. Youve got constituent services and questions and what happened to my Social Security check that Dont Stop Coming in. Thats the tough thing about a Special Election. What happens when somebody resigns is the staff stays in place likely till last night under the direction of the clerk of the house. Constituent services can continue. But all those constituent services now get picked up tomorrow. They have to be staffed up. I think politically tonight what were seeing is this. Its very hard to see a scenario where republicans keep the house in november. The trend is simply getting away from republicans. If you look at the conor lamb race, tonight, republicans are underperforming by historic proportion. And we have yet to see a race in the last two years since donald trump got elected in a truly competitive district in a 5050 district. November, theres going to be 40 or 50 races where the Playing Field is level and watch out. Democrats could probably pick up every single one of those. Kimberly, do you expect this to have a slow motion Concussion Wave like the Old Black And White flips of Nuclear Tests as it as the realization of what congressman jolly is talking about continues to roll over all the republican members up on the hill . I think so. I think you definitely see this. Theyre going to be a lot of people looking at the playbook and trying to figure out exactly how they can change it to sort of staunch the potential bleeding that could be ahead. Its worth reiterating no matter what the president said, this was a district that republicans should have won easily. And the fact that they didnt really changes the entire strategy here. I think republicans a few months back thought they could talk about the new tax law and talk about immigration and really bid a lot of support there moving into the midterms. It seems pretty clear that those issues arent taking hold exactly the same way that they hoped that it would be. Perhaps the president is being a distraction with his twitter account. Dont forget that he did insult lebron james right before the election, too. Theres a lot of variables here. And republicans dont have that Clear Strategy that i think they thought they would have by now. Democrats dont either. But theyre doing a better job in terms of at least getting out the vote so far. You have both parties taking a close look at this race to figure out what they do next. Peter baker, your role is reminding us what else will be going on in the background as all these folks, all these incumbents campaign to stay in office, all the challengers campaign to unseat them in congressional districts times 535 across the country. Thats right. Congress wont be in session very much between now and the election. A lot of dynamics are locked into place when it comes to their legislative records. One exception will be the issue of keeping the government open. Passing the spending bills necessary to move into the next fiscal year. The president has talked about how he wishes he could shut down the government in order to leverage money for his border wall. That sent Republican Leaders on the hill Into Paroxism of panic. They dont like the idea of doing that right before an election. Every time they experience a Government Shutdown in the past, they havent done well in the polls after the election. Therefore, Balderson Doesnt Want to be the one vote he takes before he has to head back to the voters all over again in ohio. Right now most of the legislative actions or inactions as it were have been taken and they have the record to run on and have to defend or attack as they see fit. And peter baker, i couldnt help but watch because we live in a television april, these two events in ohio tonight. Backdrops were not word class or ready for Live National television coverage. Everybody looked the way youd expect everybody to look. But there was televised live because were in the trump era. And theres now a laser beam of attention everywhere two people
are on a ballot. Thats exactly right. This is the first time this particular district has had this kind you have National Attention in decades. This is not a competitive district for the most part. You dont see a lot of Media Attention or attention by the national committees. You dont see the kind of money flowing in theyve had. Suddenly theyre the focus of the political world. Not because this one race matters that much. That one vote isnt going to change anything between now and the election whether he it cops to the house. What it did have was the potential for a big embarrassment for the president. He ran out there to make sure it wouldnt have that. The larger trends are still there and consistent with the other Special Elections weve seen for the last 18 months. Theyre worrisome to republicans because they dont see the path to energizing their voters to come out in a way that will stop this socalled blue wave that the democrats hope is building. Cant thank you all enough. You helped us greatly covering the news. David, Kimberly Atkins, peter baker. Coming up, he has likely visited more Public Schools in america than any other american alive today. Sadly, hes attended funerals for dozens of young people gunned down in chicago, illinois. Coming up, we will be joined by chicagoan and former education secretary arne duncan when the 11th hour continues. Were shot between friday afternoon and monday morning. 74. 12 of them sadly were killed. According to the chicago tribune, it marked the worst violence of any single weekend in chicago since at least before 2016, the year in Which Hop Sides hit records unseen for two decades. This afternoon, the Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson announced as many as 600 Additional Police officers are being deployed. He says theyll be in the hardest Hit Neighborhoods by the weekend. We are happy to be joined tonight by arne duncan, a proud chicagoan, former head of the chicago Public Schools and as a member of the obama cabinet, one of the longest Serving Secretaries of education in our nations history. His new book how schools work, an inside account of failure and success from one of the nations longest Serving Secretaries of education, is available starting today. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much
for coming. This is not a book about firearms. Its not a book about violence and survival though i have to ask you because the topics are not mutually exclusive. Violence in a city like chicago and education in a city like chicago. Theyre absolutely enter twined. Im obsessed with reducing violence at home. This weekend is no way to sugar coat it, its devastating. What i say everyone may not agree with, the police have a role to play but i dont think we can arrest our way out of this and incarcerate our way out of this. Were working directly with young men 17 to 24 years old most likely to shoot and be shot and providing job training for them, providing Mental Health services, providing trauma counseling, life coaches. And guy who have been on Street Shooting at each other are walking away from that life and want to do Something Different. We have to solve an economic problem, not a crime problem. These men will eat, pay rent,
they have to make a living. Its our choice whether they do that in the illegal economy which leads to violence or the legal economy. In my heart i believe over the next couple years, these men will lead us as a city to where we need to go. Lets hope youre right. We have to hope youre right. Youre cruising along. There are stories about chris christie, great story about john kasich. You come to the point where youre writing the book in realtime and parkland happens. Last time i saw you to interview you was at the march that have shooting. Ten years from now in this country, will Something Better have happened in American Society because of that awful tragedy . It has to. Ive been very pessimistic on this issue since the sandy hook massacre. That was the worst day of president obamas presidency, my worst day in d. C. When 20 babies get killed and five teachers and a principal and we still get nothing done in terms of common sense gun legislation. That was devastating. These teenagers across the country have been raised on mass shootings. Theyve been raised on gun violence and not tolerating it, not going to stand for it. That march was Something Different in the air. Young people from parkland, from chicago, young people im working with from across the country are stepping up. We as adults and parents have failed frankly and i apologize all the time to young people. They will lead the country to a place that is much safer, much more free of fear. Im more hopeful on this issue than ive been in a long, long time because of the leadership and courage of our nations young people. Growing up as i did in jersey across the river, you listen to new york radio and tv as a kid. There was a guy on the radio, a new york haberdasher name the cy sims and he used to say, at sims an educated consumer is our best
customer. Ive always thought that was a wonderful slogan. We like to think an educated voter is our best voter in this country. You believe youve seen signs that is not a universally held standard. I wish everyone came to the Voting Booth Thinking about education. Youre talking about politics tonight. My constant question i dont care an much. Are they coming to Voting Booth Thinking about, is this congressional leader or mayor or governor or senator going to help raise Graduation Rates and make college more affordable and increase access to prek. Specifically with President Trump, i dont think he wants to have the best educated citizenry in the world. I think when you have authoritarian tendencies and call the press the enemy of the people and want to become the only source of knowledge and truth, i dont think its in his selfinterests to have the best educated citizenry in the world. That deeply troubles me. The job you held was own created in the eisenhower era, not that many people have served
as education secretary. There are not that many living former education secretaries. The current secretary betsy devos, has she reached out to you . Have you talked shop at all . Its stunning. She never reached out. I talked all the time to my predecessors, margaret spellings, secretary bennett, republicans, democrats. Its a small club. I was the ninth serving. These are very wise people and at the end of the day, were all working together. She never reached out. Thats all i can say. I wish you luck with the book. How schools work by arne duncan, former secretary of education during the obama administration. Thank you. I know as the a politically busy night. Thank you for visiting us here in the studio. Thanks so much for the opportunity. Another break for us. When we come back, weve been talking about how its Election Night in other places. Aside from the 12th District in ohio. Steve kornacki brings us up to speed on all the races were covering tonight right after this. Booking a flight at the last minute doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. For the best savings on flights, go to priceline. And its time to get outside. Pack in even more adventure with audible. With the Largest Selection of audiobooks. Audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track. Or discover magic when you hit the open road. With the free audible app, your stories go wherever you do. And for just 14. 95 a month you get a credit, good for any audiobook. If you dont like it exchange it any time. No questions asked. You can also roll your credits to the next month if you dont use them. So take audible with you this summer. On the road. On the trail. Or to the beach. Start a 30day trial and your first audiobook is free. Cancel anytime, and your books are yours to keep forever. No matter where you go this summer make it better with audible. Text summer17 to 500500 to start listening today. Big board to brick us up to speed on everything else. So the President Donald Trump inserted himself into this ohio race. Weve talked a lot about that. The other race where he inserted himself in the homestretch was the kansas gubernatorial primary siding with kris kobach. Boy, this is a nail biter. Kris kobach is leading right now doing the math by about 687 votes over, this is jeff colyer. This is the incumbent governor. The Lieutenant Governor who took over when brownback, the republican governor left. This is sort of an unelected incumbent governor here seeking a full term in his own right being challenged by kobach playing the role of insurgent. Trump coming out for kobach at the wire yesterday. Bob dole, as soon as trump did that he endorsed colyer. Outstanding vote, trying to get a sense where thats from. Theres a not insignificant
portion of the remaining vote in kansas from johnson county. We talked so much around columbus, upscale suburbs, the equivalent in kansas city, johnson county, that you would expect colyer may get more boost out of that than kobach. This thing just an absolutely squeaker right here. The electoral implications for republicans, theres a poll that shows colyer if hes running leading the democrat by ten points. Flip it around, kobach, if hes the nominee, a dead even race. Greg or mann is going to run. Thats a big story in kansas. One other in michigan, the numbers very confusing. Im looking myself here for the first time. You had Gretchen Whitmer sort of the favorite here. El sayed. Youre not seeing a lot of vote counted. You might see more vote in. This is from the Secretary Of State site. Theres been disparities between what the Secretary Of State is reporting and what other folks are getting from their people. Weve got the can of states numbers here. Gretchen whitmer. It would be an upset if she loses. We had a house race. Long time democratic incumbent lacy clay being challenged by cory bush, the significance here, cory bushs most wellknown endorser alexander ocasiocortez. We watched her topple a giant in National Democratic politics, joe crowley in new york. She endorsed cory bush and said folks in missouri, you can do it, too. Bush falling short though. So you dont necessarily have a part two. We wanted to see if there was energy somewhere besides that district in new york. Not a great showing for clay. But certainly still hes not
necessarily sweating at this hour. Hes going to win that thing. The Big Outstanding Drama is in kansas, this governors race. Im clicking to see if weve got anything new. Kobach ahead by hundreds of votes. We want to get a better sense where thats coming from. If he wins this, you know trump will be crowing about it tomorrow and the republican establishment will be saying oh, what have we gotten ourselves into for november. Certainly from an electoral standpoint, he could win but that looks like hes a tougher sell in a General Election certainly than colyer. That phrase we keep using has never been using, every vote counts. We have a couple headlines at this hour. Number one, a bunch of folks will be up late into the evening counting votes. Number two, the electorate is changing and for those of us who are diehard Steve Kornacki fans, hes back the next hour to host
the whole thing. Well be watching. Steve kornacki, thank you for your contributions tonight. We have been able to reach mike murphy by phone. And were happy to be able to talk to him. The veteran republican strategist, longtype advisor to mitt romney, jeb bush, john mccain to name a few and former u. S. Member of congress, david jolly remains here with us in studio. So mike, good to have you. Thank you for making yourself available so late at night. What are we witnessing happen to the Republican Party do you think . Well, our appeal is narrowing because our president is quite unpopular. I was looking at the numbers in ohio and while the republicans have a good argument for the small part of it, we won the seat, if you look at the seat itself, its so deep in our backfield its very troubling that were going to have probably a narrow, narrow win there. I looked at the suburban counties which are a good bellwether, particularly delaware county. President trump ran about 16 points ahead there when he ran for president. Oconnor looks like will lose it by eight points which is if you translate that, if thats what suburban counties like delaware look like in november on Election Night, well probably lose the house, some other big races and if the president had numbers like that republican versus democrat, he wouldnt carry ohio. So this is in the small way a republican victory but in a big way, the democratic blue wave is no fantasy. It is real. The next 90 days will be about can the party do something to solve this problem and a lot of it brought on by donald trump. Another way of putting it as weve been saying tonight, if you want to go straight up demographic, if the democrats can do this in a district 88 white, its going to be very tough for the gop to hang onto the house. Yeah, its like playing a Football Game where youre playing the whole game and your
half of the field. So these are troubles. Were seeing other canaries still on the bottom of the cage tonight. Catherine Mcmorris Rodgers has a tighter race than normal in washington state. Kansas where you saw very rare thing which was President Trump came in and endorsed against an incumbent republican governor. And thats almost never done in a Political Party because you break a lot of china that way. And that ones dead even. I think colyer may inch out. Ive been trying to look. Its super close and it does show the power that trump still has at least in republican primaries if nowhere else. David, Charlie Sykes was on a few minutes ago saying there are 68 districts that are less republican than the one that is deeply contested tonight in ohio. Thats right. That goes back to what we said. When you get to november, there are a lot more competitive races. Its hard to see how republicans
at this point hold onto the seat or hold onto the house. Were seeing a lot at play tonight. The ohio race is essentially a General Election. Were seeing the trump dynamic play out in a General Election and the trump dynamic play out in a republican primary in kansas where hes anointed the republican nominee, if you will. Were seeing the power of trumpism in a republican primary and the weakness in a General Election. Im glad mike brought up the state of washington, as well. Democrats are really performing strongly in the state of washington right now. Theres actually, when he referred to kathy Mcmorris Rodgers, she is a member of Republican Leadership who make it to november but right now shes tied with her democratic opponent and they will go into november with a very hard fought race. The last thing id say and im glad mike referred to this, as well. Were talking about states and communities and to your point on demographics overwhelmingly white that put donald trump in the white house. This is where republicans are
now losing. If you were to look forward to 2020, you would say the trend is getting away from donald trump, as well, theres no way he can win pennsylvania and ohio and wisconsin and these other states that delivered the white house for him. This is a bad omen not just for November Of 18 but for 2020 if we dont find a Course Correction for republicans. Mike, how does the party work in the gop . Who decides where theyre going to dig in and declare what congressional races as firewalls . Were just going to defend, defend, defend . Were going to try not to lose this one . Well, it becomes resource allocation. What youre going to hear out of republicans is that our Pelosi Campaign works and we won this seat but as david said, you know, were 60 seats into the republican list. So winning seats like this dont hold the house. Step one is Guard Resources and theyve probably admit there are
a dozen to 15 seats that we can try to defend but it will be really hard. It will be that second dozen where they start to really apply dollars. But they applied millions and millions of republican dollars there were democrat are dollars, too. This proxy war we just had in ohio 12 was massively funded. There isnt that kind of money to go into every seat. They to make tough choices. Normally the president would have a normal political operation that would use the bully pulpit of the white house to move and get out of trouble. The problem is this president is the atomic clock and he runs towards trouble and makes it worse. We dont have the normal rule book how to get out of trouble. It will be scary for those 40 to 50 seats that can be in play. David jolly agreed to stay for further punishment. Mike, i cant thank you enough for taking our call. Its always a pleasure to have
you on the air. Thank you for joining us. Another break for us. Coming up, this other breaking story earlier today involving President Trumps onetime fixer Michael Cohen. And the Southern District of new york which you may have heard of, all of that when we come back. Managing my Type 2 Diabetes wasnt my top priority. Until i held her. I found my tresiba® reason. Now im doing more to lower my a1c. I take tresiba® once a day. Tresiba® controls blood sugar for 24 hours for powerful a1c reduction. woman wed been counting down to his retirement. It was our tresiba® reason. He needs insulin to control his High Blood Sugar and, at his age, hes at greater risk for low blood sugar. Tresiba® releases slow and steady and works all day and night like the bodys insulin. vo tresiba® is a longacting insulin used to control High Blood Sugar in adults with diabetes. Dont use tresiba® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar, or if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. Dont share needles or insulin pens. Dont reuse needles. The most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may cause dizziness, sweating, confusion, and headache. Check your blood sugar. Low blood sugar can be serious and may be lifethreatening. Injection site reactions may occur. Tell your prescriber about all medicines you take and all your medical conditions. Taking tzds with insulins like tresiba® may cause serious side effects like heart failure. Your insulin dose shouldnt be changed without asking your prescriber. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing, fast heartbeat, extreme drowsiness, swelling of your face, tongue or throat, dizziness or confusion. man i found my tresiba® reason. Find yours. vo ask your Health Care Provider about tresiba®. Covered by most commercial Health Insurance and Medicare Part d plans. It was always our singular focus, a distinct determination. To do whatever it takes, use every possible resource. To fight cancer. And never lose sight of the patients were fighting for. Our Cancer Treatment specialists share the same vision. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. Specialists focused on treating cancer. Using advanced technologies. And more precise treatments than before. Working as hard as we can doing all that we can for everyone who walks through our doors. This is Cancer Treatment centers of america. And these are the specialists were proud to call our own. Treating cancer isnt one thing we do. Its the only thing we do. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com Cancer Treatment centers of america. Appointments available now. Violations. That investigation is related to a 2016 payment cohen made to adult film star Stormy Daniels to keep her from talking about an affair she claimed she had with trump in 06, something trump denies. Now sources are telling the journal that can federal authorities are assessing whether mr. Cohens income from his taxi Medallion Business was underreported in federal tax returns. Back with us tonight, elie honig, former assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, former Assistant Attorney General for new jersey and david jolly has kindly agreed to stick around. Members of our audience would be forgiven for not knowing what a Taxi Medallion is. Ive asked to show it on the air. There is one from new york city. In this city and others, you get a certificate but you also get a
steel medallion kind of riveted to the hood of your cab. It is your license to own and operate that cab and counselor, why is it always such a fraught line of work to be in . These pieces of metal are extraordinarily valuable. Before uber, forgive me for interrupting, they were 1. 3 million. Over 1 million. Theres a finite number here in the city. They wanted to control the number of cabs here. And they were worth 1. 2, 1. 3 million. Uber and lyft drove that way down, but still worth a quarter Million Dollars each. Theyre closely regulated, rules and regulations about taxes that need to be paid. Thats where cohen may be getting into trouble. Historically there have been all sorts of games played that have gotten people into trouble with these medallions. These are not medallions controlled by cohen. These are just Taxi Medallions we grabbed in the Taxi Medallion file tape business. I know you are ex of the Southern District of new york. Its not with any knowledge of
the case that im asking, what do you think is going on with mr. Cohen . So Southern District, when we investigate somebody, we look for everything we can get. Ive heard that. Were tenacious. And in new jersey, too. But you know, when you see someone like Michael Cohen interested in cooperating, you want to up the pressure as much as possible. If there are Tax Fraud Allegations against cohen, that will increase the pressure on him to finally come in and cooperate. Let me offer some free advice to Michael Cohen as someone who fairly recently worked in the Southern District. If youre going to cooperate and there are indications you need to get in and do it. The longer you wait, the worst a deal youll get and the less valuable you are to the prosecutors. I ask this question of all the former feds weve had on this broadcast. Whats the way you use to describe someones life when you suddenly come under the spotlight of a place like the Southern District of new york . Its your Worst Nightmare i
think. You know, the Southern District is tenacious. We will bring all the resources to bear and you know, always in pursuit of justice but if youve committed crimes, you do not want the Southern District on your tail. Congressman, we have a president who there were various account yesterday that maybe he knew something about a changing in status for his son donald junior but these headlines now, its just its this pen numb all of it circling around the russia case at large. And happening in a Political Landscape of elections which were seeing tonight. You are seeing the trump team kind of crumble around the president as a result of their own culpability. We dont need to feel empathetic for the folks now beginning to be held account from manafort to cohen to others. Theres the gravity of it. Theres also the political reality, electoral consequences of it. One of the things were seeing in The Body Politic is this distrust of President Trump and the people around him. And voters are beginning to use that distrust to inform their decisions. I believe its what were seeing tonight in ohio. I believe well see it in november, as well. Counselor, what is the distinction folks at home for being confused. Is this part of the mueller case . No, they said this ones going on in the Southern District of new york. What is the relationship. It appears the mueller team wants to stay focused on the mandate as special counsel to focus on election interference. In order to stay focused and to preserve resources theyve farmed off certain pieces primarily to the Southern District of new york. That said, i have no doubt if mike cohen cooperates or anyone else of value cooperates those resources will be shared with the mueller team. Theyre all part of the Department Of Justice and theyll put on the best case
they can. I heard Maggie Haberman on cnn tonight said her guess was that by tomorrow, we would learn about the contents of Rudy Giulianis letter to the mueller team about a potential interview. Are you where i am on this . And that is ill believe it when i see it . Yeah, i think so. Its kind of amusing to see giuliani demanding these terms for the interview because the fact is, he doesnt have the upper hand here. He knows that. He was a prosecutor. Ultimately does he have any leverage . Minimal. Theyve got the client everybody wants. Right. I think giuliani knows the things hes demanding are outrageous. Youll agree to certain concessions maybe more for the president of the united states. Hes way out of line for what hes demanding, time limits. In obstruction. I wonder why. If they dont agree, mueller i believe will drop a subpoena. You end up in the courts and trump is going to argue executive privilege. It didnt work for nixon in the 70s. It didnt work for bill clinton in the 90s. Its not going to work for donald trump. Its nor National Security and military secrets. Nightmare scenario for trump is if he loses in the courts and has to go in a grand jury, hes under oath. Theres a Stenographer Taking down every word he says and no lawyer, no defense lawyer allowed in that room. Can you imagine the carnage if you unleash mueller or one of his attorneys on trump with no lawyer there. David jolly, a friend who is a lifelong new yorker and known donald trump for decades always says the following reminder to me. This guy was on the payroll of the network in this building for 14 years. He is used to being kind of the Entertainer Figure in whatever room he walks into. He is a physically large and imposing guy. Hes always been able to make people laugh and get attention. He i think truly believes in his ability to come into that room, take over and charm the folks
even the grizzled veteran investigators. True. Having established all of that, whats your straight up prediction, will we ever see mueller on one side of a table and donald trump on another . I dont think so because i think its too dangerous for donald trump. And his counselors will convince him of that. He is a master of brand management. He is not a master at dealing with the law. His culpability, the jeopardy of him sitting down particularly under oath i think would be too massive for this president. One point though that was made about the Southern District of new york thats very important. Politically if trump were to move to have mueller fired by dismissing rosenstein, because of these referrals to the Southern District of new york, they might kill the Mueller Investigation but these matters continue in the Southern District of new york under a different jurisdiction. And so even if he were to dismiss rosenstein, that doesnt mean the president s liabilities is forever wish extinguished because he can still get brought into these other. The limits on the president s ability to pardon are states able to have their own cases so that punishment is still meted out on top of any president ial pardon. Sf yes, states are the great escape hatch. If the president goes nuclear and starts firing people including perhaps the u. S. Attorneys in the Southern District, the u. S. Attorney in the Southern District which he could do. Then you still have your attorneys general. New york, new jersey, perhaps elsewhere. Im not speaking from inside information. Youre correct. Thats separate and the president cannot pardon someone on a state charge. Gentlemen, i cannot thank you enough. Weve learned a lot in this segment. Appreciate you both being here for it. Elie honig and david jolly, thanks. A deeper look at the lessons from this particular Election Night when we come right back. Every Fire Department every police department
we can keep all these emergencies small. And the fact that we can bring it together and effectively Work Together is pretty special. They bring their knowledge, their tools and equipment and the proficiency to get the job done. And the whole time i have been in the fire service, pg es been there, too. Whatever we need whenever we need it. I do count on pg e to keep our firefighters safe. Thats why we ask for their help. America is on the right path and were going to keep it going that way. Its time to get to work. Over the next three months, im going do everything i can to keep America Great again. So that when we welcome when we come back here in november get ready, weve got to come
back here in november, i have earned your vote for a second time. Danny oconnor ran a hard race. And i look forward to campaigning against him again this fall. Can you believe how close this is . We we are in a tie ball game. And you made this possible. The grassroots individuals who have been knocking on doors, fighting for the future of our country. I am so grateful. I am so grateful for all of your support. You believed in us. In a race that the pundits said we had no chance even being in. You proved them wrong. Point of information or two here. This was a race to become a seated member of congress only to have to sing for your supper again in november. And while you heard the
republican there kind of claiming victory as did the president kind of in his tweet tonight, we have to emphasize our Decision Desk is not calling this race. And were not prepared to do so. The math is not there. Whatever else you may read or see. On that, we are pleased to welcome back to our broadcast tonight, Jeremy Peters the New York Times. Hes with us by phone from washington. David jolly remains with us. Jeremy, was this A Case Of You as a political junkie up late watching the coverage unable to sleep or did we calling you on your phone make it impossible for you to sleep . At the risk of trying to sound like im flattering you too much, brian, it definitely was your persuasive producers. Great answer for 30 points
and the lead to Jeremy Peters. Jeremy, let me ask you the followup. What do you think it is were witnessing tonight . I think tonight what youre seeing is the manifestation of a lot of worries across the Republican Party about what has happened to the trump voter. Right now theres a lot of talk about this phenomenon caused the missing trump voter where you had people who turned out in 2016 to vote for trump who are just not showing up in these superb elections. There were 100,000 some in the pennsylvania special, another 100,000 of them in an Arizona Special election. And the worry is that the enthusiasm for trump has either diminished or is not carrying over to these congressional candidates. That makes a lot of sense when you think about the fact that donald trump is a candidate who lets not forget is not really a republican. Trump spent the better part of his political career as short as its been attacking the Republican Party and its leadership. Why should we expect that enthusiasm to carry over to a wing of the party that he has disparaged. I think you also have to factor in the idea there are a lot of voters fatigued by donald trump and everything happening in the country. You know, republicans dodged a big iceberg tonight but its going to be a very long cold winter ahead. And david jolly, you must be so curious, florida is full of trump voters. How many of them are the trump voters that jeremy just described . Theres a lot of them and likely missing in november. The energy is still there on the right. The question is, where do these independent and lost voters go or do they show up. We should say recognize two candidates who worked very hard as well as their volunteers. We wont know for ten days who
wins. If its balderson, he deserves congratulations. Danny and his team have a lot to be proud about tonight. That was a star on stage giving a Nonconcession Concession Speech. Watch for him in november and congratulations to all the people on the ground tonight. Thats the thing about Special Elections. Both of them will be back for november. You could hear and see that pivot in realtime tonight as weve been covering another wild night in electoral politics. Our thanks to Jeremy Peters, Thanks To David Jolly for helping us with this hour of coverage. That happens to be our broadcast for tonight. The extended edition. Thank you so much for being with us. Steve kornacki picks up our live coverage right here on msnbc now. All right. Well, that Special Election for the house seat in ohios 12 district remains officially at this hour too close to call. That is our declaration here at nbc news
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