Lets bring in our leadoff panel for this friday night. Franco ordonez, White House Correspondent for mcclatchy newspapers, covering immigration and foreign affairs. The New York Times katie benner, pulitzer prizewinning reporter who covers the Justice Department. And yamiche alcindor, White House Correspondent for news hour on pbs. Thanks to all of you for being with us. Katie, let me start with you. We have that reporting tonight about some movement on that issue of reunifying parents with children, at least some of them. You cover the Justice Department, the legal end of this. It sounded like there was still plenty of confusion when that Executive Order was issued the other day by the president about what that was actually going to allow in terms of reunification. How clear is that now . Absolutely. So as you say, this was another selfinflicted wound by the Trump Administration not thinking through clearly enough a directive before issuing it. So we saw a lot of confusion last night. There was a meeting at the white house where people argued back and forth for at least 90 minutes about what to do. Things do seem to have clarified somewhat. At the heart of this, the Justice Department helped draft the Executive Order, so they believe that their legal interpretation of this is correct, which is based around what they are calling a Zero Tolerance policy for people crossing the border illegally. Then other components including border patrol, dhs, has pushed back and said we just dont think we can do both. We cannot keep Families Together and continue to do Zero Tolerance. Today it seems like we got the components together and that they did come to somewhat more of a position where theyre all on the same page hewing more closely to Zero Tolerance. It seems the president on this, especially after issuing that Executive Order, trying to talk about other facets of the immigration issue, maybe change the subject, maybe throw more balls in the air. Lets look at those different components. Franco, to you, on the political component on capitol hill, where you had the president there a couple days ago talking to republicans carrying the message of, hey, im with you. Get some Immigration Reform. Lets get this done. Then today going on twitter and saying, you know what, democrats are just getting in the way. We cant do anything until after november anyway. Politically on capitol hill, what were the odds of some action taking place on immigration between now and the election, and what are the odds now after that tweet from donald trump . I mean the odds were pretty low before. It was a heavy lift from the start. Thats why the moderate proposal was punted supposedly to the next week in the first place. But then when trump issued that tweet, it really let the air out of any more energy. I thought of all the members that spoke in that clip that you shared, mark sanford, i thought, of South Carolina was the most honest in saying, look, its going to be really hard to do it now. Lets remember that paul ryan and other leaders at the beginning of this debate said they need trumps support. They need his backing. We dont want to bring anything to the floor unless we know for
with what his base is looking for . Well, his base is looking for exactly what the president did today. He took that message of America First and really made it something that was about whether or not you support these asking the question really, do you support migrant kids in cages, or do you support families whose loved ones have allegedly been killed by undocumented immigrants . He posed that question to his base. They chose they choose america. They choose this idea that you have to not look at these kids in cages and be appalled, that you have to instead pivot and look at these families. The fact that he continually said these are families that are permanently separated from their loved ones, making light of the fact that being separated from your child for a month or two months or even eight months in some cases, that thats not as hard as your child being gone forever. So theres this idea that he really wanted to get back to his roots because this week was really, really tough for the president. He does not step back. He does not take back his
actions. And this week he had to actually say, you know what . He had to admit on paper in an Executive Order that this was not something that could work out, that he had to actually undo a policy that he thought was going to deter undocumented immigrants. So i think that the president was feeling a little wounded, and as a result he did this. I talked to a white house official a couple hours ago who said that the president still supports both of the bills that are in the house, but that person is saying that on background, not wanting to put their name on the record. And the president is not tweeting that out. Hes not saying, hey, i still am excited about these two bills. I hope that they pass. Instead hes really saying youre wasting your time. Lets just make it a midterm issue. Thats the interesting thing, yamiche. I think it was ryan costello, republican congressman from pennsylvania actually hes not running again. He got a tough break there in the redistricting and said, thats it. Im not going again. Hes been a little more outspoken since then maybe. His reaction to what you just said from donald trump today was he said, hey, the calculation is clear here. The president just wants to be
blaming democrats rhetorically. Is there a strategy that you see between now and november thats not about policy, not about legislation, about the rhetoric of the campaign . I think so. I think this president wants to say if you want stronger immigration laws, if you want to actually get something done, that you need to have more republicans. The white house official today talked to me and said that republicans dont have enough of a majority. Theres this idea that everyone knows that republicans have control of both the presidency, the house, and the senate. But now theyre saying we dont have enough republicans to get things through and we need to get rid of some more of these democrats. I think thats really important because the president also sees that democrats were having a really tough time and are still having a really tough time getting a message together. But kids in cages really grabbed the attention of the whole nation, and even republicans who have never really criticized the president , came out and said this is wrong. Paul ryan, all these other
republicans on capitol hill, evangelicals that are backing the president because of his stance on abortion and neil gorsuch on the Supreme Court, they said we cannot have this. So the president needs to get this narrative back. The way he wants to do that is by making a midterm issue. Franco, what yamiche is describing does strike me when you look at the polling, the Public Opinion polling out there. You look at the question of Family Separation, kids being separated at the border, parents being held for some sort of court proceeding, even among republicans, trumps base, you see it split in half there. Then you see wide opposition outside of that. But then when the issue shifts back to this sort of underlying, socalled Zero Tolerance policy as the Trump Administration frames it, where, you know, its this question of anybody crossing the border illegally, should they be held . Should she be jailed awaiting some kind of trial, some kind of legal proceeding . Should the families be held
together in detention while that happens, there is in these polls a lot more support there. It seems the politics of this maybe get more complicated once you get away, if you get away from the Family Separation issue weve talked about this week. No doubt. I couldnt agree more with yamiche, who is about how the Trump Administration is trying to kind of rewrite the narrative this week. It was a really difficult week, and, you know, earlier in the week obviously some of his base was kind of being chipped away. You know, it was just a few days ago that the administration, steve miller, the allies were saying, were going to stick to our guns. Were going to keep doing this. You know, 24 hours after that, hes signing this Executive Order. Why . You know, he got so much of affront from members of his own party. I want to say particularly one of the more sensitive one was members of his loyal base. The christian, the religious community, folks like franklin graham, who stood out, who have usually been so loyal to this president , stepped out and talked about these issues and said this was not right. It was a really fascinating turn. You saw sessions going on Christian Broadcast Network saying, well, i didnt really mean that we wanted to separate the children and the parents. So it really was a fascinating turn of events for this administration. They backtracked completely. Now trump is obviously hitting back hard, blaming Illegal Immigrants for a lot of issues and saying theres a whole different world of separation of u. S. Citizens. So its quite interesting. Katie, it seems that maybe the next phase, if there is a next phase in this, could become a dispute over this question of, okay, if Going Forward youre not going to have this policy of holding the adults and then after, you know, 21 days releasing the kids, separating the kids from the adults, then a dispute over what do you do then where the trump side is saying, you detain the Families Together awaiting a court ruling. And ive seen democrats saying, Kamala Harris, the dnc put out a statement saying, no, no, no. You dont detain. You dont hold anyone. I think its been reduced to this catch and release term. From a legal standpoint, i know weve got this Consent Decree from a few years ago hanging over all this. But if the Trump Administration decided to go down that road of family detention, legally how much latitude do they have there . So let me unpack this in two parts. The Consent Decree that you mentioned, yes, the Justice Department has asked a judge in california to modify a Consent Decree temporarily. This is the decree that makes it very difficult to detain parents and children together. What they want the judge to allow is for children to allow to be detained in i. C. E. Facilities, which currently they are not. Only adults are. That would keep them together. Then theyre hoping congress does some sort of permanent fix. But obviously its clear that is not going to happen. So that is the Consent Decree portion. Then the other is and i think is one of Kamala Harris concerns, is that if we can pave a way legally for parents and children to be detained, its indefinite. Then what do we have at the border . What do we have all over the country . We would have Detention Centers where whole families are held but there is no 21day limit. We know the immigration courts, the prosecutions are backed up. Its going more slowly than people would like despite the prosecutors who have been moved to the border to take care of some of these criminal cases. I think the worry is we would be paving the way for indefinite detention of families, which is a very different issue and just as disturbing for a lot of democrats. When we talk about the complexity of polling, the polling showed when you give voters a choice of how to handle families in these situations, crossing the border illegally, the idea of detaining the family together was runaway the first choice of democrats and republicans. It raises the question if you introduce that word indefinite in front of that, how does that scramble the way people think about it . A lot of layers to this here. Thank you all for joining us. This weekend, our colleague, jacob soboroff, hes been doing some incredible reporting, and he has a Dateline Special on the crisis at the border called the dividing line. Thats going to be sunday, 7 00 p. M. 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the crisis at the border, pressure on President Trumps former fixer has been mounting. This week, we saw reports that Michael Cohen is considering flipping, and we learned he wants the president to foot the bill for his legal fees. Cohen also quit the rnc and openly criticized trumps immigration policy. And now were learning new details about trumps cozy relationship with the national enquirer. The Washington Post reporting the tabloid sent stories about trump to cohen for approval before they went to print. Then this photo posted on twitter. Cohen seen smiling with trumps celebrity enemy, tom arnold, who is working on a new show focused on obtaining damaging trump tapes. Arnold further fueled speculation tonight that cohen may be working against his former boss. Im going to spend the weekend with Michael Cohen, and the president , donald trump,
ivanka trump, im spending the weekend hanging out with Michael Cohen. And theres a lot going on. Did Michael Cohen tell you specifically, yes or no, that he is cooperating with the authorities should charges be brought . Did he tell you . Do you not want to answer the question . No. You dont want to answer the question . Right. Cohen then downplayed the claims on twitter tonight, writing, this was a chance public encounter in the hotel lobby where he asked for a selfie. Not spending the weekend together. Did not discuss being on his show. Nor did we discuss potus. Done. Ridiculous. Just in the last hour on this network, tom arnold was back at it and discussing cohen and his alleged cooperation in an interview with Lawrence Odonnell on the last word. Michael cohen is cooperating on the right side of this right now. And the right side, does that include the fbi and the yes. Prosecutors . So hes cooperating with them already . Yes, 100 . And how do you know that . He told you that . He didnt say those words, but i know that. What were the words he said . I know people are to indicate that . Thats okay. I understand. Um, im with you. You know that. Cohen is under federal investigation in connection with 130,000 payment of hush money to porn star stormy daniels. Her attorney weighed in on this Network Earlier today. Perhaps this is a Flare Gunshot in the air for Michael Cohen, you know, a message to mr. Trump or others that there may be things coming down the pike. There is no doubt in my mind that Michael Cohen is going to be indicted and face some very, very serious charges. Theres no doubt in my mind that hes going to try to trade or flip on this. Here with us tonight, mimi rocah, former assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, now a distinguished fellow in Criminal Justice at the Pace University school of law and msnbc legal analyst. And josh gerstein, senior White House Reporter for politico. Questions i didnt think id be asking on an 11 00 news show on msnbc a couple years ago, but lets talk about t