Davos but ignoring questions on Robert Mueller in light of that bob shell story he had ordered him to be fired. The clock ticking down to the next big event in the russia investigation. Steve bannon scheduled to be the next big interview. Is it getting more difficult to carry out the task of protecting the president from himself . The 11th hour on a friday night begins now. Day 372 of the trump administration. He had a busier than usual week ahead. It includes formally unveiling his latest immigration proposal. Delivering his first state of the Union Address as president and attending a retreat with house and senate republicans. All of it against this backdrop of the latest big story the white house has been forced to react to be New York Times exclusive that the president ordered the firing of Robert Mueller but for his white House Counsel who said if he goes, i go. It was never carried out. Similar accounts have followed. The president had the opportunity to respond to these reports. Fake news. Whats your message . Typical New York Times fake stories. Did you try to fire Robert Mueller . Thank you. A new report says President Trumps legal team has been studying a 1990s federal court ruling that could be the basis for delaying, limiting or avoiding an interview. The court ruled that prosecutors hoping to overcome arguments must show that such information contains important evidence that isnt available elsewhere. I think were right on the verge of some kind of explosion. He will be ordered to appear. If he defies that, it will be defieing a court order and that will lead to a constitutional explosion. Trump is scared of bob mueller. He will not testify to bob mueller and trump wants this investigation to be stopped or slowed down or impeded or made more difficult as much as possible. There is another highprofile witness slated to speak with the mueller team and thats steve bannon. A source familiar says telling nbc news trumps former chief strategists is expected to meet with muellers team by january 31st, thats wednesday of next week. Bannon was quoted criticizing his family in the book fire and furry that left a number of people wondering what exactly bannon will tell the special prosecutor when that interview does take place. A lot to get to. A lot of questions. Is lets bring in the lead off panel for a friday night. White house reporter for politico and u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york and executive director for Colombia Law School center for advancement of Public Integrity and former federal prosecutor, a veteran for the Civil Rights Program and a veteran of this network, as well. Good evening to youall. Welcome to youall. First things first, how important was this story last night about trumps order not carried out to fire Robert Mueller legally . I think its potentially huge. We know we need action and intent to get the obstruction case. There is lots of evidence implying that there was the intent when comey was fired, but this to me is a little bit of a clearer line between action and intent because you have bob mueller who is the special prosecutor, all hes doing is the russia investigation, right . You dont have other excuses about the hillary investigation and not running the burro the right way. So if in june, not even a month after mueller takes over so he cant possibly be mishandling anything, trump is ordering someone to fire him. It can only be to stop the investigation. Of course, we want to know more about the conversation between mcgahn and trump, the reasons for the order would have been discussed between them and thats the big question here. To me, unlike the comey situation, it really cant be anything else. So i think there is a pretty clean line of action to intent here and thats why i think its enormous. Do you agree with professor tribe and that scenario he laid out if the president tries to resist . I think so. Were in uncharted territory here. Nobody really has refused before but its certainly important evidence we cant get any other way. I have to think any court if presented with a president refusing to respond to a subpoena is going to order his appearance. Great to see you again. Owe told a producer we should keep our eye on the ball. Define that for us. I think were all focused on the obstruction because were just learning now about the attempt to fire mueller and put together the obstruction. Remember, mueller has known about this for weeks. The real question is not obstruction because at this point, it seems clear that there was an attempt. Why . Lets keep our eye on that. Why was trump willing to go by these extreme lengths to destroy and demolish the russia investigation. Thats something he does not want mull tore find out and mueller probably does. Matthew ill take you back to the beat and repeat for the benefit afterwards the number of defiles about attempts to fire mueller. Does the president commit to not firing Robert Mueller . The president has not even discussed that. The president is not discussing firing bob mueller. We are cooperating with he is not even discussed not hes not discussed firing bob mueller. Is he going to rule out once and for all firing Robert Mueller. Ill address the second question first. The president said last week, i believe last week and several times before there is no intention or plan to make any changes in regards to the special counsel. Is he setting the stage for firing chuck, no, there is no there is no way . There is no way hes going to fire him. There is no conversation about that. For the 1,000th time, we have no intentions of firing bob mueller. So matthew, as you heard, there was no intention of firing bob mueller. What was the white house saying today because as weve learned from lawyer friends on this panel, this was a constitutional story. What is most spectacular is the silence saying as Kellyanne Conway saying in august, there is no discussion of firing bob mueller. Trump ordered that in june. Look, we know these arent the most credible people but for Something Like this, it really is explosive to go back and see the times they denied this. There has been no official denial from the white house aside from the president calling it fake news. In that New York Times article, something i thought was big, there was no don mcgahn in there saying this never happened or declining to comment or anything like that. I think for a white house whose credibility is already in tatters, this is just sort of another hit to that. Jennifer, i heard a lawyer on television tonight as the game goes on, the New York Times says there were four sources on this story but i heard a lawyer say this is probably not a lawyer because of professional responsibility. They did not think a leak like this could come from a lawyer. It wouldnt be a lawyer with an Attorney Client relationship with donald trump. Good point. Other than that, i mean, there wouldnt be any professional responsibility for a lawyer not acting in the capacity of a lawyer to, you know, keep that communication confidential. So i dont know why it wouldnt be someone who by profession is a lawyer. Cynthia, a dual question for you. Number one, not brought up a lot, what about mike pence . And number two, if trump woke up tomorrow morning wanting above all to fire bob mueller, doesnt it at this point have to be for cause . Well, what about mike pence number one. I guess is he will be interviewed before the president is interviewed and that will be a tip off for us that the president ial interview is coming or coming to ahead very soon. That would be my gut about pence. I dont i dont see how he fires i dont see how he could possibly fire mueller at this point. Even the most weak need of the Republican Leadership, i think would actually balk at that. Maybe im hopeful they will stand up for the rule of law. Yes, it would have to be for cause and first you would have to fire rosenstein. There would be quite a series of events that would have to happen and seems impossible to me. Jennifer, if youre team mueller, what does it remind us . What is it you want to ask steve bannon . They want to ask steve bannon a lot of things. He was right there in the president s ear according to Michael Wolffs book you have contrary forces working in the white house but he was a powerful person talking to him and guiding him. So you just want to talk to him about a variety of things but the comey firing. I do think regardless of the fact that of course, ultimately, mueller wants to get behind the purpose of these firings and see what the russia collusion case is about, hes honing in on obstruction because its a potentially clean, easier case to make in case hes fired or something happens. I think they will try to wrap it up first. They will talk to him about firing comey and certainly be talking to him about these other conversations around Michael Flynn that will be an important topic of conversation. While they talk about the russian stuff to some extent, they will focus on the more obstruction related things. Is it a prevailing view its a little tighter, there is a little more control, maybe not overall of the president s utterances. Thats right. There has definitely been a lot less in the way of which hunt tweets and accusations against mueller. Weve seen less inside the white house of trying to dig up things about muellers prosecutors and left that to sean hannity and his friends. Donald trump is not someone whose known for his patience. So you ty cobb saying it would be over by thanksgiving, then new years now the next few weeks. The president hears this and will see this investigation is is not wrapping up and how long he can let that go on and follow the ty cobb strategy remains to be seen, especially because we know his instinct is not to sit back and let this continue. His instinct is to fight it. Lets inject fatigue, International Travel and twitter. If we have the president s twitter post tonight. The president on his twitter account liked by indication the wall street journal story about his friend, steve wynn of las vegas, steve wynn the target of these Sexual Harassment allegations. Story got powerful play today and widely distributed, it was just weird to see a like on behalf of the president of the united states. Again, though, not known for restraint in this venue. Right. With him and his phone after a long foreign trip, this is when he tends to get in trouble. These flights have not always been friendly to him. We remember on one of those they crafted the statement about don junior meeting with the russians to talk about adoptions. Its no surprise to see him getting loose. His own doctor injected the ambien factor as many travelers rely on it for overseas travel. Jennifer, knowing what we know that the negotiation is going on with president s team and muellers team, i ask you this every time you come on, where do you think we are in the scope of this investigation . Well, i mean, i think we are getting to the end. They are starting to get closer and closer to the president. Bannon is close to the president. They are getting to the important people. There is still a number of people to go. It will be awhile. I dont suspect that the president and his team will do too much to delay things. The article about the 1990s case and all of that because ultimately, its not going to stop it. I do think that just dragging this out they realize its not the best strategy for them. I think we will get to the president s testimony. I think it will be under oath and will happen sometime this year but i think we might still be a few months away. Cynthia, you get the last word. What form do you think it will be . Video . Do you think it will be in person and what do you make of the calendar and how far along they are . I think mueller is a man of rules and the department of justice rules are very clear that you dont want to do anything that would affect an election. I think he will try as much as possible to stay away from the november elections. That to me is some going to be some kind of guide. If at all possible, he will want to wrap this up early summer so that he can be as far as possible away from november. You know, im not sure i agree in the end trump is interviewed. I think he may all his friends are telling him not to do the interview. He thinks he can do anything with impunity and take five. There is not a lawyer in america that thinks he should do the interview. I wouldnt be surprised if there is not a lot of bluster and in the end doesnt do it. What an interesting point to depart from this discussion with our thanks to matthew, Jennifer Rogers and to cynthia, we really appreciate all three of you starting off our conversation on a friday night at the end of a long week. As we approach the first break, the Hercules Task faced by don mcgahn and others of protecting the president from the president especially this president. And Donald Trumps fake news defense employed yet again today and yet another immigration deal appearing increasingly out of reach tonight on the hill. All of it when we continue. Laug] rodney. Bowling. Classic. Can i help you . Its me. Jamie. Im not good with names. Celeste i trained you. We share a locker. Moose man yo. He gets two name your price tools. He gets two . I literally coined the phrase, we give you Coverage Options based on your budget. Thats me. Jamie yeah. Youre back from italy. [ both smooch ] ciao bella. [ both smooch ] are you reluctant to eat in public because of your denture . Try super poligrip® it holds for 12 hours to reduce denture movement, helps provide better bite, seals out 74 more food particles, and enhances your denture fit. Try super poligrip®. In plain english, this exclusive continues to dominate the news and our conversation tonight and we know when President Trump decided to fire special counsel mueller, it was white House Counsel don mcgahn who ultimately stopped him as the times first reported after receiving the president s order, repeating order to fire mr. Mueller, Donald Mcgahn refused to ask the Justice Department to dismiss the special counsel saying he would quit instead. Its not the first time the people around this president have stepped in to stop something that could cause great damage to him or the presidency, but while the president s staff tries to control the message, President Trump made it quite clear he sees himself as his own spokesman. I presented to the president my concerns and those of Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein about the on going leadership issues about the fbi as state in my letter recommending the removal of mr. Comey. What i did is i was going to fire comey, my decision. You made the decision before they came in the room. I was going to fire comey. He was very definitely attitudes and even the wall once we briefed him when i was at dhs. What we need is the wall is when we need to solve a tremendous border on the crime. We need a hall. The habit raises questions about the relationship with his staff, legal team at a sensitive time as he prepares to answer special counsel and reporter for the Los Angeles Times. Welcome to youall. Amber, what is the concern level im guessing you get asked this a lot especially among republicans whose names have to be on ballots in a few months. Yeah, youre saying what is the concern level, which is the chaos in the white house right now . Yeah. It is an 11 out of 10. I think that day to day we saw with a couple weeks ago in im immigration, policy making is a total mess. You have a president for the past year creating drama and including and congress doesnt want to talk about it. They were hope thing week we were talking about trump and how good the economy is doing and the tax bill. Another incident i remember last year is right as the House Republicans passed a bill that would allow trump to crack down on sanctuary cities, he tweeted about an msnbc morning joe host and the accusing her of getting her face redone. Day of day of day banging their heads against the wall because they dont know what is going to come out of him and his twitter feed. David said he gave a half descent speech to a half descent reception but of course, everything was against this backdrop with the conversation. Knowing what we know about chris ray and don mcgahn, talk a little bit about the consequences of serving this president. I guess its not for the faint of heart. They struggled to keep the reigns on the white house and decision making. I was in john kellys office on wednesday night when all of a sudden, the door bursts open and in comes donald trump and we start asking questions and he blows the lid on a planned fourday rollout of the immigration plan, tells all the reporters that and im standing next to john kelly and i can tell by his body language that he, you next realizes hes going to have to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan to clean up what the president just did. Also, i heard john kelly when we asked President Trump about mueller and whether he would be willing to testify and President Trump said that he would love to, i heard a sigh from mueller, from john kelly standing next to me. He was really trying to keep a straight face and not show emotion. This happens time and time again where kelly has been brought in. He really tries to organize the way the president gets information and come up with a systematic way for him to make decisions but the president undermines that day of day of day. Did you find it curious or notable that john k