Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 201

What they might have asked, what he might have said all of it as the 11th hour gets under way. Good evening, once again from our nbc headquarters here in new york. Day 271 of the Trump Administration leaves the president choosing to keep gold star families in the middle of what become a nasty political conversation. And threatening an even ugler fight with a u. S. Senator who spent five plus years as a prisoner of war and tortured and injured for life. President trump was asked again about his false claim that president obama did not call the Service Members of u. S. Families killed in action. You want to clarify anything there . Theres nothing to clarify. Theyre just a bunch of fakers. So you ask me that question, and think for the most part theyve called every Family Member thats die immediate. Its the hardest thing for me to do that. As far as other representatives, i dont know. You could ask general kelly did he get a call from obama. About general kelly, the Washington Post is out tonight with a new piece headlined, kelly tried to keep his son out of politics. Trump had other ideas. The remark which was almost immediately derided as democrats and obama allies as politicizing a tragedy was was planned said white house officials. One said kelly may have mentioned some details surrounding his sons death to the president in private. And the president then repeated them in public, a relatively frequent occurrence with trump. Today the president also talked about senator john mccains comments last night from philadelphia that has generated quite a few headlines. At that event mccain talked about halfbaked nationalism pushed by people who would rather find scapegoats. He called them unpatriotic. Heres what the president said about john mccain followed immediately by our own nicole wallace. You heard what he said yesterday about senator mccain. Yausheah, i hear it. And im being very nice, but at some point i fight back and it wont be pretty. Nothing you do is pretty. There is a necessary post script to our coverage of all of this. The president , these gold star families of before American Special operations troops killed in an ambush in niger in africa. The white house confirmed tonight the president has called all four families. Tonight when he called the widow of sergeant la david johnson, she was in the car near her home, near miami en route to the arrival of her husbands body. She was surrounded by family when she talked to president on speakerphone but also in the car we believe unbekboes to the president was her congresswoman. Tonight the headline is this. The congresswoman said she heard the president say to the widow, a mother of two, six months pregnant, quote, he knew what he signed up for. And he reportedly went onto say but when it happens, it hurts anyway. Heres where the congresswoman expressed that heartache in an art view with cnn a short time ago. This is a young, young woman who has two children who is six months pregnant with a third child. She has just lost her husband. She was just told he cannot have an open casket funeral, which gives her all kinds of nightmares how his body must look, how his face must look. And this is what the president of the United States says to her . One can only imagine. To our lead off panel tonight, peter baker chief White House Correspondent for the new york times, Ashley Parker White House Reporter for the Washington Post, with whos out tonight with that report on general kelly. And eli stokels. All three are msnbc political analysts. Peter, lets begin with you. Least of all this widow and her family in florida, no one needed this added post script to this nasty day where politics has somehow become intertwined with gold star families in our country. Well, thats right. And i would caution our viewers that we werent we didnt hear what he said the tone of which he said it and we havent heard from the widow herself. Our source was the Democratic Congresswoman, and she gave a compelling account which you played on cnn. We dont know ow the widow took it. Its a very unfortunate thing to say because it is open to misinterpretation at the very least. And i think one thing that president s learn that in these moments of grief, in these moments of great tragedy and heart break, your job is to bring comfort, your job is to hold hands and to wrap your arms figuratively at least around the people who have lost so much and not increase the heartache and increase the politics at the moment. And thats some of whats happened over the last 24 hours of whats normally a private and quiet act by president s obama and george w. Bush have now become politicized and out in the public for debate. And to our view, we repeat there were no journalists in this vehicle. Just members of congress and members of the family. This member of congress along with one other member from the state of florida is calling for an investigation into just what American Special operators were doing in niger in africa that led to this attack on them and the loss of four of these Young Americans in uniform. Ashley parker, im going to read a larger than normal chunk of your work because it nicely tells the story of general kelly, a gold star parent himself. Quote, for the past several years general john f. Kelly has gone out of his way to keep the death of his son free from politics. He did not talk about when just four days after his death in afghanistan, he found himself commemorating two other marines in combat. In fact he specifically asked the officer introducing him not to mention his boy, who was killed instantly when he stepped on a land mine while on patrol in 2010 according to the Washington Post report. Just last month kelly slipped away from the white house to attend a Marine Corp Scholarship benefit in his sons memory with little fanfare or attention. But on tuesday President Trump thrust his son into the public and political glare, invoking the younger kelly as part of a continuing attack on former president barack obama. Ashley, how do you process this as a journalist covering this story in realtime . Whats so striking about this is even journalists who have been covering general kelly for a very short period, one thing is clear his own service and the service of both of his sons, including his son who lost his life in afghanistan in 2010, weighs on him deeply and forms all of his thinking especially on Foreign Policy decisions, National Security decisions. Because for him its just not an intellectual exercise. He knows the cost. But for as much is this a part of his fabric of hilife, its not something he talks about. Hes private about it, and recoils at the idea his own son or even the children of any family would even be politicized. Again, we dont know specifically how general kelly reacted to the kind of offhand comments today. He did thrust his son into the spotlight. This is not a way he would like his son to be referenced in sort of a political attack on President Trumps predecessor, barack obama. And ashley, general kelly who of course was last seen in the Briefing Room complaining in partgently but still complaining about even well sourced journalism about this president in this white house. I dont imagine well have any chance to know how this has made him feel, the kellys, mr. And mrs. , general and missus, having their tragic loss of their son dragged into this. Y tell you from talking to other white house aides that they were very caught offguard by the president s comments. They didnt expect them. This wasnt part of a planned White House Communications strategy. And one of them said to me general kelly is so private about his son. Its not something they mention. He sort of surmised. But, again, wrthis is a theory hes not going to be comfortable with this either. The ongoing war of words this president has waged on john mccain, who by the way just happens to be in the toughest battle, this old naval warrior and former aviator has faced. Yeah, thats right. And just like the comments that he made about general kellys son and perhaps made to the widow in florida tonight that we havent confirmed yet, there is this pattern, this difficulty the president has in expressing empathy and identifying emp pathically with people going through a difficult time. Theres been no mention of mccains illness and this president going back over a month has expressed grievance on health care. And mccain stepping up really and speaking his mind unlike most of his colleagues in the senabout about this administration and what he sees as the dangers of this president , hat has agitated donald trump, and none of his comments in return has been tempered by any shred of empathy. You heard the president on the radio threatening he will fight back. Its hard to imagine what that is. A lot of people hear those words and that bluster, and it sounds as hollow as that rhetoric is. But to donald trump he needs to say these thing tuesday make himself feel good. You talked about general kelly who does not express his feelings all that openly and talk about himself, this is president who spends a day doing that alone. Peter baker, i dont mean this sarcastically, but what part of the trump agenda advanced today say from the white house to the hill . Well, there is a deal tonight. We hear a republican and democrat coming together to puts a twoyear fix on the health care subsidies, the order canceled just last week. This would stabilize the Insurance Markets if the president signs it. It sounds like the president embraced it, although he was a little vague about what he said about it. And that would be an important step forward. The question is whether that would lead congress towards a deeper engaged frt to address health care or whether well simply patch things over for now so they can return to the partisan fight theyve had over this for months. Ashley, peter raises an interesting point. There was a part of that press Conference Today where the president seemed to want to have ownership over this, the actual news of the settlement, of the bipartisan notion broke at the conclusion of the news conference. But this entire agreement goes at and attempts to fix a part of obamacare the president is trying to kill. Thats right. I mean there is sort of a little nuance there that one of the issues is that these payments need to be appropriated by congress. So what the president was doing was saying that president obama couldnt make this decision, congress has to make this decision. But the truth is as you opponent out, the president has stated that he wants to repeal and replace obamacare. Thats what his actions were doing. Thats what undoing these payments was part of that effort. And so i think it is an interesting question. He may sort of want credit for this deal or this win, thats something the president is always interested in. But as he said today and as the senators said, this is a shortterm fix. There remains a question of what happens in the longterm. And there could be the potential to reach a deal with democrats. But the president has been committed to undermining obamacare than improving upon it or fixing it. And it was very standard for a visiting dignitary, couple questions from the u. S. Press corp, couple of questions from the visiting press corp. One of the points the president made that had made scratching their head. He said we have the votes to repeal and replace obamacare. No one can name the votes to get them a majority as of right now. Another interesting moment came from a member of the greek press corp. And well play it here and the president s response and well talk about it. In march of 2016 you said that the potential for a donald trump presidency, quote, i hope we will not face this evil. And im wondering after spending time with the president you have changed your mind or if youre of the same mind. I wish i knew that before my speech. First of all, my error. John roberts is not nor has he ever been a member of the press corp. John very much a a an american tonight as when he woke up this morning. The response from the president , genuine . It seems to be. And again there was nothing about the greek Prime Ministers comments in his briefingdulate. If thats true, maybe the president didnt read the briefing documents. Theres more evidence his staff is trying to shield him from information that might set him off or perhaps evidence of him not being fully prepared or him trying to play it for a laugh and diffuse the moment. Clearly the Prime Minister did not want to escalate things. His response though was very careful. At one point he said i didnt feel threatened in my meeting. There was just a lot of platitude in his response, nothing really concrete. But clearly a willingness to accept the fact that donald trump is president of the United States, and hes going to need to work with him. We always ask our lead off panel some night were going to stop and count up the dizzying amount of topics we cover. But our thanks to our panel. Coming up as we take our first break, sean spicer facing questions from robert mueller. Well have the latest on the russia investigation. And up next, two political minds react to the president dragging the death of u. S. Troops into the inopen world of politics. Thats when we continue on a tuesday night. Anyone who calls it a hobby doesnt understand. We know that a persons passion is what drives them. [ clapping ] and thats why every memorial we create is a true reflection of the individual. Only a dignity memorial professional can celebrate a life like no other. Find out how at sanfranciscodignity. Com. I personally as a republican in the past few weeks have wondered is the republic safer as democrats take over the house in 2018 . I raised that issue last week, the remarkable thing, he had been thinking the same thing. This is a president that needs a greater check on his power that republicans in congress have offered. Former republican congressman david jolly in florida, who went onto say with our guest, the republic may be safer with the democrats in majority. Were happy to welcome david jolly back with us tonight. Gentlemen welcome both back to this broadcast. Ill give you a little while longer, to explain what must have been a discussion among your republican friends. Im not a republican who all of a sudden adopted Nancy Pelosis politics. But the question is, and the news worthiness is there are more republicans who agree with this. And its the principle of this. We know theres a matter of National Security, right . The fact that mattis, kelly, mcmaster, tillerson have somehow decided when to intervene should the president act erratically. We know there are measures from russia to matters of private travel. We know there are encroachments on free speech, free press, free expression. And so imagine if we have these concerns, what it would look like in a Democratic Congress who was providing accountability to this president. And so that a question i think some republicans are wrestling with. Are we safer first as a mesh of National Security with stronger accountability that were simply not seeing from capitol hill . And im certainly not somebody embracing the democratic agenda tonight. But we know the gender President Trump has created. And it is news worthy there are republicans wrestling whether or not there needs to be a greater check on his power than republicans on capitol hill are currently providing. And one more. Where do you put issues with the president dragging gold star families into the political realm . It doesnt impact our safety or National Security or the running of the country. It has been an awfully unpleasant news cycle to sit through. This is a matter of decency, and a president who lacks decency but has an abundance of audacity. One of the things were not looking at with general kelly, we know this is a gold star family who lost a son. But this is a general who had to make those phone calls and understand those are not political moments. The president himself politicized this, as a member of congress, i did not bear the weight of a general or soldier lost in battle. I had to make late night phone calls to families of injured soldiers, those are not political moments, there was one that i remember today, because the president has politicized this, there was an injured soldier, i called his father and i said, were going to get him home. We got him home, we worked with the family, weeks later, the father told me, not only did i not vote for you, but i worked with the labor union to defeat you. And we laughed about it, because those are not the political moments. Those are very personal solemn moments, we have a president who does not understand those solemn moments. He is a master at capturing the anger of the american people, but he is not skilled at capturing the hearts and the minds and the souls of the american people. Jason johnson, what if i had told you a couple years back, that some day a former republican congressman from the great state of florida and some of his colleagues, named or not, would come to this judgment that actually having an opposite party in control of the house of representatives may be a betterz heck period compmay be a betterz to what we have now . Brian, i wouldnt have believed you until you then told me, what if i told you trump would be president. Okay. Then i would have believed you. You know, this is its interesting, you can go back not just to this administration, you can go back to the constitution, go back to the federalist papers. Unfortunately, we dont have a government structured around dealing with this kind of corrosive leadership. The british do, they had kings. The brazilians do. But our constitution is based on the idea that we may have a morally corrupted president but at least a competent moralally corrupted president. In this case we dont have either. It is also a danger time to realize that the Trump Administration<\/a> leaves the president choosing to keep gold star families in the middle of what become a nasty political conversation. And threatening an even ugler fight with a u. S. Senator who spent five plus years as a prisoner of war and tortured and injured for life. President trump was asked again about his false claim that president obama did not call the Service Members<\/a> of u. S. Families killed in action. You want to clarify anything there . Theres nothing to clarify. Theyre just a bunch of fakers. So you ask me that question, and think for the most part theyve called every Family Member<\/a> thats die immediate. Its the hardest thing for me to do that. As far as other representatives, i dont know. You could ask general kelly did he get a call from obama. About general kelly, the Washington Post<\/a> is out tonight with a new piece headlined, kelly tried to keep his son out of politics. Trump had other ideas. The remark which was almost immediately derided as democrats and obama allies as politicizing a tragedy was was planned said white house officials. One said kelly may have mentioned some details surrounding his sons death to the president in private. And the president then repeated them in public, a relatively frequent occurrence with trump. Today the president also talked about senator john mccains comments last night from philadelphia that has generated quite a few headlines. At that event mccain talked about halfbaked nationalism pushed by people who would rather find scapegoats. He called them unpatriotic. Heres what the president said about john mccain followed immediately by our own nicole wallace. You heard what he said yesterday about senator mccain. Yausheah, i hear it. And im being very nice, but at some point i fight back and it wont be pretty. Nothing you do is pretty. There is a necessary post script to our coverage of all of this. The president , these gold star families of before American Special<\/a> operations troops killed in an ambush in niger in africa. The white house confirmed tonight the president has called all four families. Tonight when he called the widow of sergeant la david johnson, she was in the car near her home, near miami en route to the arrival of her husbands body. She was surrounded by family when she talked to president on speakerphone but also in the car we believe unbekboes to the president was her congresswoman. Tonight the headline is this. The congresswoman said she heard the president say to the widow, a mother of two, six months pregnant, quote, he knew what he signed up for. And he reportedly went onto say but when it happens, it hurts anyway. Heres where the congresswoman expressed that heartache in an art view with cnn a short time ago. This is a young, young woman who has two children who is six months pregnant with a third child. She has just lost her husband. She was just told he cannot have an open casket funeral, which gives her all kinds of nightmares how his body must look, how his face must look. And this is what the president of the United States<\/a> says to her . One can only imagine. To our lead off panel tonight, peter baker chief White House Correspondent<\/a> for the new york times, Ashley Parker<\/a> White House Reporter<\/a> for the Washington Post<\/a>, with whos out tonight with that report on general kelly. And eli stokels. All three are msnbc political analysts. Peter, lets begin with you. Least of all this widow and her family in florida, no one needed this added post script to this nasty day where politics has somehow become intertwined with gold star families in our country. Well, thats right. And i would caution our viewers that we werent we didnt hear what he said the tone of which he said it and we havent heard from the widow herself. Our source was the Democratic Congress<\/a>woman, and she gave a compelling account which you played on cnn. We dont know ow the widow took it. Its a very unfortunate thing to say because it is open to misinterpretation at the very least. And i think one thing that president s learn that in these moments of grief, in these moments of great tragedy and heart break, your job is to bring comfort, your job is to hold hands and to wrap your arms figuratively at least around the people who have lost so much and not increase the heartache and increase the politics at the moment. And thats some of whats happened over the last 24 hours of whats normally a private and quiet act by president s obama and george w. Bush have now become politicized and out in the public for debate. And to our view, we repeat there were no journalists in this vehicle. Just members of congress and members of the family. This member of congress along with one other member from the state of florida is calling for an investigation into just what American Special<\/a> operators were doing in niger in africa that led to this attack on them and the loss of four of these Young Americans<\/a> in uniform. Ashley parker, im going to read a larger than normal chunk of your work because it nicely tells the story of general kelly, a gold star parent himself. Quote, for the past several years general john f. Kelly has gone out of his way to keep the death of his son free from politics. He did not talk about when just four days after his death in afghanistan, he found himself commemorating two other marines in combat. In fact he specifically asked the officer introducing him not to mention his boy, who was killed instantly when he stepped on a land mine while on patrol in 2010 according to the Washington Post<\/a> report. Just last month kelly slipped away from the white house to attend a Marine Corp Scholarship<\/a> benefit in his sons memory with little fanfare or attention. But on tuesday President Trump<\/a> thrust his son into the public and political glare, invoking the younger kelly as part of a continuing attack on former president barack obama. Ashley, how do you process this as a journalist covering this story in realtime . Whats so striking about this is even journalists who have been covering general kelly for a very short period, one thing is clear his own service and the service of both of his sons, including his son who lost his life in afghanistan in 2010, weighs on him deeply and forms all of his thinking especially on Foreign Policy<\/a> decisions, National Security<\/a> decisions. Because for him its just not an intellectual exercise. He knows the cost. But for as much is this a part of his fabric of hilife, its not something he talks about. Hes private about it, and recoils at the idea his own son or even the children of any family would even be politicized. Again, we dont know specifically how general kelly reacted to the kind of offhand comments today. He did thrust his son into the spotlight. This is not a way he would like his son to be referenced in sort of a political attack on President Trump<\/a>s predecessor, barack obama. And ashley, general kelly who of course was last seen in the Briefing Room<\/a> complaining in partgently but still complaining about even well sourced journalism about this president in this white house. I dont imagine well have any chance to know how this has made him feel, the kellys, mr. And mrs. , general and missus, having their tragic loss of their son dragged into this. Y tell you from talking to other white house aides that they were very caught offguard by the president s comments. They didnt expect them. This wasnt part of a planned White House Communications<\/a> strategy. And one of them said to me general kelly is so private about his son. Its not something they mention. He sort of surmised. But, again, wrthis is a theory hes not going to be comfortable with this either. The ongoing war of words this president has waged on john mccain, who by the way just happens to be in the toughest battle, this old naval warrior and former aviator has faced. Yeah, thats right. And just like the comments that he made about general kellys son and perhaps made to the widow in florida tonight that we havent confirmed yet, there is this pattern, this difficulty the president has in expressing empathy and identifying emp pathically with people going through a difficult time. Theres been no mention of mccains illness and this president going back over a month has expressed grievance on health care. And mccain stepping up really and speaking his mind unlike most of his colleagues in the senabout about this administration and what he sees as the dangers of this president , hat has agitated donald trump, and none of his comments in return has been tempered by any shred of empathy. You heard the president on the radio threatening he will fight back. Its hard to imagine what that is. A lot of people hear those words and that bluster, and it sounds as hollow as that rhetoric is. But to donald trump he needs to say these thing tuesday make himself feel good. You talked about general kelly who does not express his feelings all that openly and talk about himself, this is president who spends a day doing that alone. Peter baker, i dont mean this sarcastically, but what part of the trump agenda advanced today say from the white house to the hill . Well, there is a deal tonight. We hear a republican and democrat coming together to puts a twoyear fix on the health care subsidies, the order canceled just last week. This would stabilize the Insurance Markets<\/a> if the president signs it. It sounds like the president embraced it, although he was a little vague about what he said about it. And that would be an important step forward. The question is whether that would lead congress towards a deeper engaged frt to address health care or whether well simply patch things over for now so they can return to the partisan fight theyve had over this for months. Ashley, peter raises an interesting point. There was a part of that press Conference Today<\/a> where the president seemed to want to have ownership over this, the actual news of the settlement, of the bipartisan notion broke at the conclusion of the news conference. But this entire agreement goes at and attempts to fix a part of obamacare the president is trying to kill. Thats right. I mean there is sort of a little nuance there that one of the issues is that these payments need to be appropriated by congress. So what the president was doing was saying that president obama couldnt make this decision, congress has to make this decision. But the truth is as you opponent out, the president has stated that he wants to repeal and replace obamacare. Thats what his actions were doing. Thats what undoing these payments was part of that effort. And so i think it is an interesting question. He may sort of want credit for this deal or this win, thats something the president is always interested in. But as he said today and as the senators said, this is a shortterm fix. There remains a question of what happens in the longterm. And there could be the potential to reach a deal with democrats. But the president has been committed to undermining obamacare than improving upon it or fixing it. And it was very standard for a visiting dignitary, couple questions from the u. S. Press corp, couple of questions from the visiting press corp. One of the points the president made that had made scratching their head. He said we have the votes to repeal and replace obamacare. No one can name the votes to get them a majority as of right now. Another interesting moment came from a member of the greek press corp. And well play it here and the president s response and well talk about it. In march of 2016 you said that the potential for a donald trump presidency, quote, i hope we will not face this evil. And im wondering after spending time with the president you have changed your mind or if youre of the same mind. I wish i knew that before my speech. First of all, my error. John roberts is not nor has he ever been a member of the press corp. John very much a a an american tonight as when he woke up this morning. The response from the president , genuine . It seems to be. And again there was nothing about the greek Prime Minister<\/a>s comments in his briefingdulate. If thats true, maybe the president didnt read the briefing documents. Theres more evidence his staff is trying to shield him from information that might set him off or perhaps evidence of him not being fully prepared or him trying to play it for a laugh and diffuse the moment. Clearly the Prime Minister<\/a> did not want to escalate things. His response though was very careful. At one point he said i didnt feel threatened in my meeting. There was just a lot of platitude in his response, nothing really concrete. But clearly a willingness to accept the fact that donald trump is president of the United States<\/a>, and hes going to need to work with him. We always ask our lead off panel some night were going to stop and count up the dizzying amount of topics we cover. But our thanks to our panel. Coming up as we take our first break, sean spicer facing questions from robert mueller. Well have the latest on the russia investigation. And up next, two political minds react to the president dragging the death of u. S. Troops into the inopen world of politics. Thats when we continue on a tuesday night. Anyone who calls it a hobby doesnt understand. We know that a persons passion is what drives them. [ clapping ] and thats why every memorial we create is a true reflection of the individual. Only a dignity memorial professional can celebrate a life like no other. Find out how at sanfranciscodignity. Com. I personally as a republican in the past few weeks have wondered is the republic safer as democrats take over the house in 2018 . I raised that issue last week, the remarkable thing, he had been thinking the same thing. This is a president that needs a greater check on his power that republicans in congress have offered. Former republican congressman david jolly in florida, who went onto say with our guest, the republic may be safer with the democrats in majority. Were happy to welcome david jolly back with us tonight. Gentlemen welcome both back to this broadcast. Ill give you a little while longer, to explain what must have been a discussion among your republican friends. Im not a republican who all of a sudden adopted Nancy Pelosis<\/a> politics. But the question is, and the news worthiness is there are more republicans who agree with this. And its the principle of this. We know theres a matter of National Security<\/a>, right . The fact that mattis, kelly, mcmaster, tillerson have somehow decided when to intervene should the president act erratically. We know there are measures from russia to matters of private travel. We know there are encroachments on free speech, free press, free expression. And so imagine if we have these concerns, what it would look like in a Democratic Congress<\/a> who was providing accountability to this president. And so that a question i think some republicans are wrestling with. Are we safer first as a mesh of National Security<\/a> with stronger accountability that were simply not seeing from capitol hill . And im certainly not somebody embracing the democratic agenda tonight. But we know the gender President Trump<\/a> has created. And it is news worthy there are republicans wrestling whether or not there needs to be a greater check on his power than republicans on capitol hill are currently providing. And one more. Where do you put issues with the president dragging gold star families into the political realm . It doesnt impact our safety or National Security<\/a> or the running of the country. It has been an awfully unpleasant news cycle to sit through. This is a matter of decency, and a president who lacks decency but has an abundance of audacity. One of the things were not looking at with general kelly, we know this is a gold star family who lost a son. But this is a general who had to make those phone calls and understand those are not political moments. The president himself politicized this, as a member of congress, i did not bear the weight of a general or soldier lost in battle. I had to make late night phone calls to families of injured soldiers, those are not political moments, there was one that i remember today, because the president has politicized this, there was an injured soldier, i called his father and i said, were going to get him home. We got him home, we worked with the family, weeks later, the father told me, not only did i not vote for you, but i worked with the labor union to defeat you. And we laughed about it, because those are not the political moments. Those are very personal solemn moments, we have a president who does not understand those solemn moments. He is a master at capturing the anger of the american people, but he is not skilled at capturing the hearts and the minds and the souls of the american people. Jason johnson, what if i had told you a couple years back, that some day a former republican congressman from the great state of florida and some of his colleagues, named or not, would come to this judgment that actually having an opposite party in control of the house of representatives may be a betterz heck period compmay be a betterz to what we have now . Brian, i wouldnt have believed you until you then told me, what if i told you trump would be president. Okay. Then i would have believed you. You know, this is its interesting, you can go back not just to this administration, you can go back to the constitution, go back to the federalist papers. Unfortunately, we dont have a government structured around dealing with this kind of corrosive leadership. The british do, they had kings. The brazilians do. But our constitution is based on the idea that we may have a morally corrupted president but at least a competent moralally corrupted president. In this case we dont have either. It is also a danger time to realize that the Republican Party<\/a> has been complicit in much of his behavior. The same general kelly who was unfairly used in his sons death was used by the president , was unfair in his policy. While the democrats may save us in the short time as far as putting a check on donald trump, when the republicans have integrity as well and theyre losing that battle by allowing trump to behave this way. And jason, to put another way excellent point about the lack of a mechanism in our government as you see it. Theres no joy in the Opposition Party<\/a> if trumps Republican Party<\/a> splinters as weve been saying for days into this bannon nationalist wing. That cant do great things in washington where a working majority is needed. Ive always said, some of these arguments are between the ku klux and the klan. I come from a family thats voted on every single side of the spectrum, but when the Republican Party<\/a> decides trumpism is a philosophy, that is dangerous. When steve bannon with his White Nationalist<\/a> and white supremacist connections is no longer considered an outside fringe person, but a viable political alternative in the supporter of candidates of people across the country, that is a dangerous time. I hope the Republican Party<\/a> recognizes that integrity and the sovereignty of this nation is more important than power. But so far i dont think theyll learn that lesson until they get wiped out in 2018. Two smart guys, if we didnt have more smart people right behind you, we would fill the entire hour with this conversation. Suffice it to say, thank you for coming on. Another break for us, the man known for taking copious notes in the Trump White House<\/a> and all his political meetings. Sean spicer facing questions from Robert Muellers<\/a> team. More on that when the 11th hour continues. Who have built their website using gocentral, did it in. Under an hour, and you can too. Type in your business or idea. Pick your favourite design. Personalize it with beautiful images. And. Youre done and now business is booming. Harriet, its a double stitch not a cross stitch build a better website in under an hour. Free to try. No credit card required. Gocentral from godaddy. As we mentioned at the top of the broadcast, sean spicer is the latest big name from the circle around this president to get called in and interviewed by special counsel Robert Muellers<\/a> team. And the team is fordable. Its how he spent his day yesterday. As politico first reported, coat, during his sit down, spicer was grilled about his firing of former fbi director james comey and his statements regarding the firing as well as trumps meeting with russian officials including one with foreign minister Sergey Lavrov<\/a> in the oval office. And as axiose reported last month, spicers habit of filling notebooks with meeting details could also be what they call as potential honey pot for mueller. National Security Council<\/a> chief of staff, Lieutenant General<\/a> Keith Kellogg<\/a> was interviewed in september. Also today, nbc news learned the Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee has subpoenaed former trump advisor carter page. Page says he plans to testify, but the committee expects hell invoke his fifth amendment right. With us for more on all of it, shannon petty piece, White House Correspondent<\/a> for bloomberg, and paul butler. Paul, i think you lawyers call it exposure. What possible exposure does sean spicer have, in this case subset question, is it a good thing or a bad thing that the guy is known as a copious note taker . So, brian, youll remember spicer didnt leave the white house under the best of circumstances. And theres nothing like having your former employee answer questions from the fbi to make cruwish youd been a little bit nicer to him. So i think the questions from the special counsel involve some conclusion, but mainly, obstruction of justice. What did the president tell him about why he fired fbi director comey. And when trump famously created this false narrative about the meeting that donald junior had with the russian operative, trump was on air force one, putting the story together. What did he tell you, sean spicer, about why he was doing this cover up . What was he trying to hide . The notes are a gold mine. We could be pretty sure that the special council already has those notes, has combed through it with his crack team of fbi agents. Hes just filling in the blanks asking spicer, what did you mean when you said this . Shannon petty piece. Bloomberg today chose to zero in on one of the names we just mentioned. Not well known outside west wing circles and military circles where hes very well known, and thats general kellogg, why is that . I think he could be really even more valuable to mueller than sean spicer, even though sean had a front row seat to a lot of the events going on in the white house. I know because i spent many nights standing outside his office during the firing of flynn, comey, trying to get answer tuesday watching the lawyers and senior advisers going in and out of his office. Keith kellogg was more behind the scenes, hes the chief of staff for the National Security<\/a> council. And chief of staff to michael flynn. I think he could be key to the flynn aspect of this investigation. He was one of the first people of the white house staff that mueller spoke to, they spoke to him in early october. He did not bring a lawyer with him to the interview, which was something that caught my attention. If this was a grand jury, sitdown, a lawyer would not be allowed in the room, presumably, this was an interview with mueller, so a lawyer would have been allowed. And typically the reason you want a lawyer in the room is to prevent you from accidently purging yourself by making a misstatement or leaving out a date or confusing who was in the room. So i think he could be a crucial player here. And shows the attention thats being paid to flynn. Speaking of a potential perjury trap, i happen to know you feel thats a exposure danger for carter page, tell us why . Carter page has already been interviewed at length by special council mueller, and now the Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee wants to talk to him, and get his documents. Hes claiming the fifth now, its a little too late. First of all, theres almost never a fifth amendment privilege in documents. There may be a fifth amendment privilege, and so the Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee can certainly subpoena him and make him talk. Shannon, one more and i ask this on behalf of the folks watching, we say that once a week that mueller runs a very tight ship, that so rarely will we ever hear leaks from in effect this d. C. Law firm he has put together. But in introducing this segment i just listed questions and topics sean spicer was asked to answer in his mueller session. Where do you imagine those kinds of leaks come from, and you can speak generally. Well, i never reveal my sources, brian. So but it has been interesting. I do agree with you, a lot of people thought this was going to be a black box, like everything in this administration, everything in washington it seems these days, the information is just flying around fast and loose. I think that surprised a lot of people involved opinion im sure it surprised the lawyers, i know they get surprised when they get calls from us sometimes. So i think it just really speaks to the way information gets around in the trump era. Spoken like a pro, didnt mean to put you in a tough spot, but you navigated through that one superbly. On behalf of the good folks watching our broadcast. Our thanks. Appreciate it, well have you both back, of course. Another break for us. And coming up a recipient of the medal of honor will be here to talk with us about how the president should treat the ultimate sacrifice when the 11th hour continues. The president s choice of words about the treatment of gold star military families comparing himself to other wartime president s continues to draw reaction and condemnation tonight. Lets talk about it with our next guest. We are joined by retired u. S. Army general jack jacobs. A highly decorated combat veteran in vietnam. One of only 72 living recipients of the medal of honor, were also happy to say hes an msnbc military analyst. Ive been wanting to get your reaction to this, at times, ugly political debate thats spilled out into the open from dealings with gold star families that should remain so private. Well, theres no more difficult nor even onerous task than having to tell the next of kin that a loved ones been killed. A lot of us have had to do it, and you never forget it. But to turn that solemn duty, that job into counting political coupe is very distasteful. Its almost obscene, actually. Its kind of perverse, and its no, sr. , i dont like it very much. That is the word David Axelrod<\/a> used tonight, he called it an obscenity. To the mechanics of what happened here, and there will, im quite sure a congressional look into this, what are american troops, say nothing of four of our very best, doing in niger in africa . We have special forces troops just about everywhere. Theyre in large number of countries in africa. We have them in uganda, lots of places in sub saharan africa, in afghanistan, and a multitude of other places, and theyre there to train indigenous troops to defend their countries. When you do that, invariably, youre going to be taking them out on training missions. And from time to time we get engaged with the enemy in the very countries were training these troops to defend. But were doing that sort of thing all over. What if we have to have a public debate and congressional hearings about getting into these smaller operations we have in farflung places . Im reminded of vietnam when congress was congressional leaders were complaining about being in vietnam for so long. We lost tens of thousands of americans in this war, they were against the war and so on. At the end of the day they had the capability of stopping it. All they have to do is stop funding it. Indeed, that is the only thing were doing to defend our interests abroad. I mean we dont have large numbers of american troops engaging the enemy anywhere. Special Operation Forces<\/a> are our defense and i dont think anybodys going to stop that from happening. I want to talk to you about senator john mccain, and before we talk about that, i want to play the audience this, and have everyone remember this moment. Hes not a war hero. Hes a war hero. Hes a war hero, because he was captured. I like people that werent captured, okay . I hate to tell you. A lot of people thought that would be a campaign ending moment. It is certainly where the war of words started from the president directed at john mccain. John mccain in the fight of his life against brain cancer, spoke in philadelphia last night. And ill say this, ive had the great privilege of being around you guys, recipients of the medal of honor, served on your board, tried to raise a lot of money a few years back. To a person, the people all of you recipients looked up to were the pows, we just lost a terrific one, a mutual friend of ours, in the last few months. John mccain occupies that space. Hes in that rarefied group. You know a lot of us not just us but people we represented, people we fought with performed well in difficult circumstances. P pows perform well in five years, seven years, getting tortured every day with a view they would never, ever go home. Those are the tough guys and we all look up to them, and look up to them, because they are tougher than anybody. Why pick a fight with a former pow member of the senate . Theres an argument that says, if youre an expert, youre not very good on your feet, and you dont know very much, youll do exactly that, and i think thats so in this case. It doesnt make any sense to pick a fight with anybody, if youre president of the United States<\/a>, youre the most powerful person on the face of the earth. And if you have to do that, then theres something missing somewhere. But to pick a fight with john mccain or indeed anybody in uniform when you yourself have not served speaks to a certain ignorance that i think is difficult to duplicate in public life. Colonel, thank you. Youre very welcome. Coming up, how have past president s handled this sad, but necessary burden of the job . Pulitzer prize winning president ial historian, jon meacham will join us when the 11th hour marches on. As long as president s have cept americans into battle, they have dealt with the burden of losing american blood and treasure on the battlefield and consoling those left behind. Our friend the historian, reminded us this week, of the special president ial role, he pointed to this letter Abraham Lincoln<\/a> wrote to the daughter of a fallen Union Army Soldier<\/a> in 1862. Here with us tonight to talk about the special role of american president s, pulitzer prizewinning author and president ial historian, jon meacham, whos also an msnbc contributor. You and i are both obligated to quote once a week, so were off the hook. Its actually in the contract. Thank you for being here. Is the plight way to ask this question, is President Trump<\/a>s modern era antithesis bush 41, both in terms of his years of service in the navy, youngest ever. The first time herb rt walker bush wrote a letter like this, he was 20 years old because he las two crew members. Delaney and ted white, and he wrote letters to their families. And we have the letters that the family sent back. So hes been doing this for 73 years. His son, when is not in combat, intuitively understood the role and by all accounts was a man of grace and decorum and embodied what president roosevelt said, that the president is preeminently a place of moral leadership. Its not a social pin ball machine. Its about leading the nation, asking people to sacrifice, making the ultimate sacrifice what lincoln called the last full measure of dwoegz, aevotio then honoring that sacrifice. In my mind the bushes and president obama handled this extremely graceful. If you ask any president they all say the hardest thing you do is send someone in battle and deal with the consequences. Bush 41 was talking in his diary and kept an audio direry throughout his presidency, in iraq of 1991 and hes watching cnn up in the treaty room. And he sees a father hugging his son. And he immediately, his mind goes back to when his father dropped him off at penn station right over here, and it was the only time hed ever seen his father cry, putting his son on his 18th birthday, graduated from the academy and he joined the United States<\/a> navy. What weve heard and seen from the president this week, his comparing his dealings with gold star families to his predecessors obviously pointed at obama. Is it the collusion of a lack of Institutional Knowledge<\/a> plus his predecessor . I think its a clash of intuitiveness. I dont think he knows how to act out of hope. I think he only knows how to act out of fear. And he only know house to fight, not to heed. You know, at this point i guess it all sounds partisan to some people, but these are historical observations. Ive voted for president s for both parties. And its a remarkable incapacity to empathize with the people around you and with the people broadly put. He ran for the job with very little understanding, apparently, of that role. And it does matter. This is not symbolic, this is not simply about theatrics. This is about embodying the mof moral life of the country. And again, we can agree or disagree all week long with bill clinton and george h. W. Bush and george bush and barack obama, but you knew at their core they believed in the country and its promise. I think this president believes in himself and his poll numbers. We have a few seconds left. We have a wealth of riches in terms of being alive, this many former president s. Should they be a resource in times like this . You know, they all say no. They think they shouldnt get back in the arena and scramble things around. Bush 41 used to say i dont want to go to yellow pad conferences. But i think one of the great things about the country is there is a fundamental common sense. Ask i think that even if people are not explicitly making these comparisons, implicitly they know we have not been here before and this is not a good place to be. Coming up, talking about the president today, joe biden says its not trumps policies that unsettle him the most. Well show you the exchange when we continue. Building a website in under an hour is easy with gocentral. From godaddy in fact, 68 of people who have built their. Website using gocentral, did it in under an hour, and you can too. Build a better website in under an hour. With gocentral from godaddy. There he is. As we said last thing before we go tonight, joe biden shared the stage tonight in his home state of delaware with governor john kasich, the governor of ohio. The topic of this was bipartisanship. But he shared what hes heard from heads of state around the world, 14 heads of state around the world. Biden called President Trump<\/a>s behavior absolutely bizarre. And he shared one World Leaders<\/a> thoughts he wouldnt identify the leader on this very moment. This was remember back in may, in brussels. President trump just brushed aside the leader of montenegro to get to the front. Here is what joe biden had to say about that. At one point this Prime Minister<\/a> said and did you see what he did, we were sitting on the same side of a conference table sort of as close as you and i are, and he said he took the president of mont neg row and shoved him aside and he stuck out his chin, and all i could think of was el dutche, not a joke. The thats what people are thinking. Generates more anxiety and fear than any policy prescription that this president has enunciated. Tough stuff from joe biden a democratic two term Vice President<\/a> at a critical time for our current president. And with that, our thanks for being here with us. Thats our broadcast on a tuesday night. Good night from nbc news headquarters here in new york. Tonight on all in. Ive never been more outraged at anything in my life. Everyone should be outraged. An Opioid Epidemic<\/a> bombshell. As far as tom marino, so he was a very early supporter of mine. Tonight as trumps pick for drug czar pulls out the Opioid Crisis<\/a> is an emergency. How the president who promised to help solve the Opioid Crisis<\/a> could be making it worse. What about declaring a written National Emergency<\/a> . Then obamacares finished, its dead, its gone. The new bipartisan fix for obamacare sabotage. 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