why now when michael brown is killed do we change the rules? >> thank you for your time tonight on "the ed show." the senate is voting on the keystone pipeline. that's "the ed show." "politics nation" starts now. thanks to you for tuning in. we start with breaking news, right now the senate is voting on the keystone xl oil pipeline, a project that stirred up huge divisions and an issue at the center of political and environmental fights for years. 60 votes are needed to bring this to the president's desk. the fight is over a plan to bring oil from alberta, canada down to the gulf of mexico. tonight's vote hinges on getting approval to building the last portion of it from canada to nebraska. if built oil would flow through about 2,000 miles of canada and the united states. supporters, mostly republican say it is all about job creation and oil independence from the middle east. opponents say it could be devastating to the environment. the process to get the oil procedures around and to produce even more greenhouse gases than regular drilling. contributing to climate change. they also say we could see more spills like this one in arkansas last year and even if the senate approves tonight's vote it is not clear if president obama would sign it. high drama on capitol hill. the vote is happening right now. will it pass? and what will the president do? joining me now are michelle cotto and ryan grim. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> supporters of the pipeline need 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. how close is this vote going to be? >> here is a prediction that could be wrong immediately. it's going to be extremely close but mary landrieu said today she is very comfortable she has at least 60 and maybe even more. people have gone broke betting against mary landrieu on the senate floor. she is a tremendous politician and tactician. if she thinks she is going to be able to get to 60 or slightly above i think they will get to it. there are a lot of people who do seem concerned that she will stop short just at 59. if i had to put a bet on it, though, i think she gets the 60 today. >> now, michelle, here are the key differences on keystone. supporters say it would create 42,000 jobs while opponents say only 50 would be permanent. supporters also say the pipeline won't have much of an impact on the environment while opponents say it will mean more greenhouse gases and possibly spills. while supporters say the pipeline would mean cheaper gas opponents say that's not the case and it may even raise prices. how big is the divide on this? >> it is enormous. at this point both sides tend to exaggerate their arguments because it has become a symbol. i think the state department has had to do a review of this. just taking one of the arguments they decided and discovered it would not have the devastating environmental greenhouse effect because if it is going to happen anyway. we are talking about the pipeline here, not the actual extraction of the oil. there is a lot of exaggeration because it is a great rallying point for both teams. the republicans can say the president doesn't care about jobs or the economy. it is a great thing for environmentalists to be able to point to a specific problem that they say shows republicans don't care about the environment. >> president obama said he doesn't want to make a decision while there is still disagreements over the route of the pipeline. here is what he said on friday. >> my position hasn't changed. this is a process that is supposed to be followed. right now you have a case pending in nebraska where the pipeline would run through in which a state court judge has questioned the plan. and until we know what the route is it is hard to finish that evaluation. >> does anyone know what the president wants to do? does anyone know? >> it's a virtual certainty that he will veto this for a few reasons. one is that he just came back from china where he struck a climate change accord. it would look awful politically if he comes back and even if it is symbolic gesture, just to make that symbolic move against climate change advocates right after he struck the deal kind of unravels a lot of agreement with china. he wants to continue to have this as a bargaining chip with republicans. if republicans bring it -- if he signed it right now he would be giving it away for nothing. it is just one bill at this point. maybe he wants a payroll tax cut. who knows what the president thinks he can get out of republicans for agreeing to this in january, february or march whenever they bring it back to him. >> give me the politics of that. you heard what ryan said. he is suggesting -- i want your response to that -- that the president will veto. he just made a climate deal in china and it gives him a bargaining chip to negotiate including some of the newcomers to the senate later on. what is the politics of that and the strategy on that, if you agree? >> i think ryan is pretty dead on on this one. he has been trying to kick this can down the road for as long as he can. he has the ruling that he can use as an excuse this time to veto it. not that he wants to sign it but it is a good reason to kick this once more until he gets the new congress in and then he can extract some sessions. i think there has been a certain segment of advocates who have wanted him to use this as a bargaining chip for a while now. it seems like at this point that will be the way to go. >> today's vote was really pushed by louisiana senator mary landrieu who is in a tight, tight runoff race in louisiana next month. in the primary she only beat her republican opponent by a point. so will this help her? and if so how much? >> it's hard to see how this helps her a ton other than if she gets a win then it gets covered in the press as a win and people like winners. the policy itself, though, doesn't directly benefit louisiana. this is canadian oil that is being shipped through the united states into texas and then being exported. so it's not obvious that anybody in louisiana directly benefits from this. people do like to rally behind a winner. if they see in the news that mary landrieu won something in washington they may say let's send her back and keep winning. cassidy has been offered a seat on the energy committee. if he wins and because of the role the turnout plays in the run off like this i haven't met anybody that thinks landrieu has a good shot. the only reason anybody is at all optimistic on her side is that she pulled out so many close races in the past. the numbers are strongly against her. >> when you talk, michelle, let me revisit something you said -- when you talk about a bargaining chip with the president what kind of things would he bargain for? what could he use this chip for assuming the scenario is as you and ryan suggest he vetoes it and uses it as a bargaining chip later. what could he get out of this? >> i'm not going to try to second guess what he is going to do. >> i got to try. >> this is a big symbol for both sides. so if he plays his cards right he can take this and try to get concessions on other budget deals or other things that republicans would never want to give an inch on otherwise because this has been a huge rallying point for years now and we have had both sides making grand claims and saying they will never ever concede anything. so depends on kind of what the issues are at the moment that he really wants to deal with. >> most presidents in their second term after a mid term that their party didn't do well have the fight for relevance. is there any doubt that this president is the center of american politics and washington politics right now? >> no doubt at all. part of that is a function of how our system is evolving. and republicans kind of deserve a lot of responsibility for that in the sense that six years ago they made the conscious decision that we are going to oppose everything that the president does so it doesn't appear bipartisan and we can polarize things and eventually take over. it worked for them. in january they will take full control of congress. they have broken congress in the process. so the power has flowed out of congress and into the executive and into the judiciarjudiciary. the president is the beneficiary of the strategy. the last two years he is going to be able to use that power in ways that other presidents haven't, on issues like climate change, immigration, net nutrality and even war, foreign policy. he could make sweeping nsa reforms if he wanted to. all of the major issues that we talk about other than taxing and spending at this point he has a lot of flexibility from the white house. >> thank you both for your time. we'll stay on tonight's breaking news from washington. senators voting on the keystone pipeline. 60 votes needed to pass it. live reaction from the white house ahead. also, speaker boehner is back with that bogus lawsuit against the president. we'll tell you about that and some new impeachment talk from the right. and the human side of the immigration debate. we'll hear from two young dreamers whose lives could be changed by the president's executive action. all that plus dirty tricks from dot-com startup and why is charles manson being allowed to marry? it is ahead on conversation nation. ♪[ soft holiday music ]♪ can you help me up? 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["mony mony" by billy idole she cokicks in on car stereo]y". ♪don't stop now come on mony♪ ♪come on yeah ♪i say yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪'cause you make me feel like a pony♪ ♪so good ♪like your pony ♪so good ♪ride the pony the sentra, with bose audio and nissanconnect technology. spread your joy. nissan. innovation that excites. developing news out of israel where israelis are reeling after a deadly terror attack. early this morning israeli police confirmed a fifth person, an israeli policeman has died. three rabbis are dead, american citizens. at least six people are injured. two suspects were killed in a shootout with police according to authorities. they were armed with gun, knives and axes. our social media community has been expressing condolences all day. judith wrote another sad day for any person wanting peace in the world. tom said so sad for their families. what a gutless act. i agree, tom. johnny posted praying for peace. i am, too. share your thoughts with us on facebook page or on twitter at politics nation. today the republican plan to sue president obama over the health care law is back on the political docket. this suit has been an embarrassment for the gop ever since speaker boehner announced it back in june. at first he couldn't even explain what the suit was about. then two straight law firms backed out of the case. now speaker boehner has lawyered up again. he is eyeing a new lawyer to handle the case amid reports he will expand the lawsuit to include the president's action on immigration. although a few minor questions remain. >> now that you hired another lawyer to handle this lawsuit against the president when do you expect to go forward? >> soon. >> they don't know when and they don't know exactly what. all they know is they are going to do something extreme in response to the president's immigration plan. >> i think the outrage will be so great that it will support a number of events to defund the executive support amnesty. it will support lawsuits and other acts, as well. >> file a lawsuit, maybe even impeach. the gop answer to immigration crisis more political games. joining me now democratic congressman from missouri. thank you for being here, congressman. >> good to be with you. >> is speaker boehner really going ahead with this lawsuit that everybody knows is just a political stunt? >> i think the speaker has to go to his base with this kind of foolishness but i don't think the lawsuit is going to go anywhere. we are doing a favor for the speaker and the republican conference because when the president does his executive order he will take off the table the most controversial component of the immigration reform legislation and that is dealing with amnesty. they ought to take the blessing and wait for the benediction and go home. >> i concur. let me bring you back to the beginning of this. when speaker boehner announced the lawsuit in june he hadn't decided what he wanted to sue over. listen to this. >> what specific executive action are you planning to challenge in court? >> when i make that decision i will let you know. >> later he said he would target the health care law and added in immigration. congressman, is this lawsuit just a show for the base as you s suggest? >> that's all it is. he wants the base to say these guys are going to continue to punch barack obama. it doesn't matter that he is not going to file the suit. he can continue to talk about it. executive orders have been done since george washington. if you wanted to look at somebody who may have overdone it, fdr did over 3,000. i think it is a mistake for mr. boehner and the conference to start talking about filing suits and even impeachment. >> today political reports that the gop is scrambling for an immigration plan. house and senate republican leaders have been discussing the potential of introducing targeted immigration reform bills in the coming months. the discussions were secret until now. after years and years of delay they got a super secret immigration plan in the works. do you agree with this? >> i don't think they will be able to get it out of the republican conference. there are a lot of people in there who are going to resist any attempt at immigration reform. the president made a pledge to the latino community in this country. i think he is going to keep that pledge to do some kind of executive order after the november election. so i think it is on its way. >> congressman, we just got news that 41 votes in the senate voted no against keystone which means it fails that senator landrieu cannot get the 60 votes. there are 41 no votes. what does that mean with the vote against keystone? what does that mean and what does it mean for senator landrieu? >> i really think we have overplayed this keystone pipeline as a way of victory in the senate. there are people who could have voted either way in this last election as a democrat and would have still lost. i think we have a chance down in louisiana. i don't think anybody will hold the keystone vote against senator landrieu. she stood up, said her part, but she lost. and i don't think that's a reason to vote against her. i don't think if it had passed it would have made her reelection any easier. >> congressman, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> we are watching that breaking news from the senate. the keystone pipeline has failed to get the 60 votes needed for passage. a dramatic show down tonight in washington. no one was sure if the votes were there or not, but the pipeline has failed to pass. we will get live reaction from the white house. it has failed for now to pass the senate. go to the white house next. tup. it's working for new york state. already 41 companies are investing almost $80 million dollars, and creating 1750 jobs. from long island to all across upstate new york, more businesses are coming to new york. they are paying no property taxes, no corporate taxes, and no sales taxes. and with over 300 locations, and 3.7 million square feet available, there's a place that is is right for your business. see if startup-ny can work for you. go to startup.ny.gov. wethey were a littlehorizons to mbit skeptical.ss, what they do actually is rocket science. but at ge capital we also bring expertise from across ge, like lean process engineers we asked who does what, when, where, and why that step first? 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"how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is, why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night,nd. and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24, a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70 percent of people who are totally blind. talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. don't let non-24 get in the way of your pursuit of happiness. we are back with more on the immigration debate, a conversation that should be about people, not politics. president obama made this clear this summer that serious immigration reform could help mill whereins of people all across the country. >> maybe more families who have been living here for years whose children are often u.s. citizens, for our neighbors and our friends and whose children are our kids friends and go to school with them and play on ball teams with them, maybe those families would get to stay together. >> a recent documentary "the dream is now" shows the struggles of some of the young people in those families like erica who shares the heartbreaking story of how her mother was arrested by immigration officials and how she fought to bring her back home. >> i'm talking to you right now because my mother was taken away by immigration. >> erica posted her story and sent it to everyone she knew. her mother was on a bus headed for mexico. at 8:00 a.m. erica held a press conference appealing to the nation for help. >> stop pretending that nothing is wrong and we are living normal lives because we are not. this could happen to any of us. >> within hours 18,000 people signed her petition and thousands called immigration headquarters demanding her mother's release. >> then i got a call from my mom. >> at 12:00 noon the bus returned. >> the community, the country realized and stopped the bus. >> jose pateeno's story is in the film, too. he is a college graduate who couldn't find work because of his undocumented status. >> jose was awarded a full scholarship to arizona state university. >> when he graduated in 2011 there was a shortage of mechanical engineers in the state. he could not apply for the jobs his classmates were seeking because he was undocumented. now i'm working. when you think about it you realize i have all of this. >> joining me now are erica and jose. thank you both for being here this evening. >> thank you for having us. >> erica, the president has said he may use executive order to make immigration reform happen. are you hopeful it will finally happen now? >> i am. i think that it has been a long battle and been a struggle. we have seen promises from the president. i think after elections the president realized it was a failed strategy of delaying immigration. now that there is really not a lot to lose for him. instead of really gaining. one being able to help so many people in this country like my whole family and being able to gather as latinos and getting them back to vote in 2016. >> you know your mother was sent back to mexico. give people a sense of what's at stake in immigration in this fight. far away from the talk in washington. >> i was so fortunate to be able to stop her deportation before she was leaving for mexico on the bus. she is here with me but unfortunately she was given one year stay. every year we will have to be renewing i guess they can anytime decide to deport her. for me this fight has been very personal and very hard. at the same time she has been inspiration. i don't know that it will be included in this package of reforms. i am ready to continue fighting for the rest of the community that has been going through what she went through. >> as we saw in the documentary you struggled to find a job in your field. you are now a teacher with teach for america. how important is this immigration reform to you? >> it's everything. it changed my life. it changed the lives of many parents and families. if it happens to be together and stop the separation. it's my life. it is everything to me. >> jose, what's amazing is that you now have this job but you can't get a driver's license in arizona because of your status. it just seems illogical, doesn't it? >> well, the politics of the republican-run legislature and our governor jan brewer. it is very weird. i am able to be a teacher and teach but i'm not eligible to have a driver's license. >> erica, you are a true activist. i mean, i know you stood up to one of the most vocal immigration critics, congressman steve king. i want you to watch this. >> i just don't understand. >> you are very good. >> i was raised in the united states. >> do i look like a drug smug e smuggler to you? >> does it make you nervous to directly challenge lawmakers? >> i think we have gotten to the point that not anymore. i feel like we have been able to really make a case for the american people that i think the majority of americans really want some sort of path for legalization for immigrants. people like steve king who really want to take this issue and make it very controversial for himself. i am not afraid to go and ask him to really rip up my card. if he thinks i shouldn't be in this country why not take the card and rip it apart. he didn't do that because he knows that is not what should happen. he will continue to use the issue for his own political reasons and we will continue to confront those people and especially protect what the president does. >> i want to ask both of you, it has been a long time coming. give us some sense of the feelings in the community about the possibility of reform. >> for me it is a lot of excitement and a lot of joy but also anticipation because we don't know what is going to be in it. parents of citizens are going to qualify but parents of dreamers are not. it will be mom and dad and people that i know of. i'm excited but at the same time i don't know if it will cover my parents. >> same here. my mom has to return to us in december. she has an appointment. anything can happen. they can keep her there or deport her or detain her or let her go again. and i think to me like my mom doesn't have u.s. citizen children. we are all dreamers or undocumented. so i'm just really worried that if the rumors are true and dreamers are not included or other folks who don't have u.s. citizen children then i'm going to have to keep fighting for my mom year by year and continue living the fear of her getting deported and separated. >> you know if the president signs it it won't be over. there will still be a big fight, a lot of opposition. what are your plans personally if he does sign it? how will that effect you and your plan? >> for me i'm basically going to help my mom and the people i know apply for it as much as i can. i teach in a hispanic community and a lot of my students are undocumented. so it will help my community. we have to live legislative battle beginning with immigration reform in order for us to stay here permanently. >> what would be your plans? you are the activist? >> we have to defend what we get and got to keep pushing for more. any number of individuals who are not included in this, we are going to have to continue stopping deportations one by one if we have to. we have to continue defending what we get and republicans are going to have to realize that if they really want to get something for the latino community in 2016 they are either going to have to put legislation after the president announces or say good bye to latinos in 2016. >> let me ask you this. what do you say to viewers that are watching that are not sure about where they are at on this issue on immigration reform or even executive action? what couldn't you say to them that may make them understand what you feel? >> it's not an issue. it's your family. it's the person who raised you. the person who gives you birth. she took care of you. the person that taught you everything you are today. it is about family. i think that is what people don't see. it's not a number, undocumented person. it is my mom. it is someone i go to thanksgiving and share christmas with her. it is your parents. imagine if you couldn't have your parents with you, what would you do? >> what you could say to someone watching who is really undecided where they are on this immigration reform issue? >> i would say we have proven as dreamers that deferred action has not -- the world hasn't ended after deferred action was announced in 2012. dreamers were able to give a lot to this country and we have been able to give a lot to this country. they can expect our parents and siblings and those folks who are going to be helped this time around are going to do the same. eventually the american people are going to see that we are their neighbors. we are folks who live next to them and will continue to be in this country and try to help our community as much as we can. >> thank you both for your time this evening and for sharing your stories. we hope to have you back on the show very soon. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. piano tuners were just as simple? 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"fire' by firenze" "sir?" start your search online with over 35,000 carmax quality certified used cars. carmax. start here. know that chasing performance and fewer choices in retirement. know that proper allocation could help increase returns so you can enjoy that second home sooner. know the right financial planning can help you save for college and retirement. know where you stand with pnc total insight. a new investing and banking experience with personalized guidance and online tools. visit a branch, call or go online today. i was out for a bike ride. i didn't think i'd have a heart attack. but i did. i'm mike, and i'm very much alive. now my doctor recommends a bayer aspirin regimen to help prevent another heart attack. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. it's time now for conversation nation. joining me tonight comedian chuck nice and democratic strategist tara dell. thank you both for being here. >> pleasure. >> i want to start with a controversy at one of the hottest tech companies. an executive for the ride sharing service uber is under fire for suggesting the company quote digged up dirt on journalists. buzz feed sent the story when it was suggested that journalists to help uber fight back against the press. they looked into your private lives, your families. give the media a taste of its own medicine. he apologized saying he regretted making the comments. you taking uber back home tonight? >> i'm a subway guy myself. that's because when i'm on there you may recognize me, the guy that goes excuse me ladies and gentlemen of the subway i mean no disrespect. i got a little cup that i go around the subway. i can't do that on uber. this guy really doesn't get as people relate to the media. i don't care what the guy reporting does in his own spare time. i don't care if he is a drug addict. i want him to get the facts right. >> and we don't necessarily believe every they say anyway. >> what is it? here is a high tech big company, huge company guy saying this? >> this is the last thing they needed because this is not their first controversy. they are in trouble because they are not abiding by the same regulations that the taxi cab industry has to abide by. this is very scary because if someone writes a story about you -- remember, he was targeting women. the bulk of his anger was directed specifically at a woman reporter and women reporters generally so that is disturbing. he is upset because he got caught. he is not upset about what he said. that was a very definitive declaration. >> he got caught not in the negative story. >> she is regretting he got caught saying what he said. that was a specific declaration he made at a private dinner with other executives. >> he thought he would get away with it. >> now he is back pedaling. that is a sentiment. >> he felt that was acceptable. now to a controversy in colorado, a mexican restaurant at the center of a debate over a term some are saying is insulting to undocumented immigrants. one group calling it painful and offensive. >> the word illegal regardless of what it meant in 1995 when he started the first restaurant when used in reference to human beings is defensive and dehumanizing in 2014. >> pete, the owner is defending his restaurant saying it has been around for 20 years and is named after his father. tara, is it offensive or are they overreacting? >> i think the term illegal has become a slur, a bludgeon people use to attack their opponents particularly people who are undocumented into the country and people who support people who are undocumented into the country. the issue here is i think this is a difficult one because clearly this restaurant is a 20 years old. i don't think he intentionally came out with the name of it as a slur. >> i have to say that i'm not proud to say it but i used to call people illegal. somebody explained to me why it was a slur. i don't say it anymore. but i'm an individual. here he has a business. it's named after his father. and it's directly relating to his father. maybe this father did a lot of illegal stuff. >> we have all said stuff we agree to not say again. >> amen to that. >> stay with me, we are coming right back. charles manson is getting married. i'm serious. next. kicks in on car stereo] ♪don't stop now come on mony♪ ♪come on yeah ♪i say yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪'cause you make me feel like a pony♪ ♪so good ♪like your pony ♪so good ♪ride the pony the sentra, with bose audio and nissanconnect technology. spread your joy. nissan. innovation that excites. the ultimate arena for business. hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. the only problem with conference calls: eventually they have to end. unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. it lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. i've never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business. we're back with our panel. let's move to a wedding we didn't see coming. imprisoned murderer charles manson is ready to tie the knot. manson and his fiance, 26-year-old aften elaine burton have obtained a marriage license from king's county california. the license is good for 90 days. burton says they will be married next month. ten guests are allowed to attend. how in the world can he be allowed to get married? >> i have no idea. he is still in prison. >> maybe this is the california penal system's way of getting back at charles manson. like setting a steak dinner. he can't have conjugal visits. he can never be with his wife but he can marry her. the real issue here is for every guy out there who says i can't get a woman, you can no longer say that. there is somebody for everybody. >> who would want to marry charles manson? >> apparently this woman wants to marry charles manson. don't worry there is someone for everybody. it is crazy. also what is sad is in some parts of the country if you are gay or lgbt you can't get married but charles manson can get married. that tells you all you need to know. >> that is a very good argument. >> now i get it. when you put the picture they just had up of her explains everything. they just put a picture of her up with her head shaved and an x on her head. there it is. when you say who would married charles manson you show me that picture and this makes sense. >> the point is that they allow it legally but a lot of people are upset about this. >> we shouldn't be rewarding charles manson for anything. to me being able to get married is a reward. it is something people aspire to do. just like the lgbt community aspires to get married in this country. so we are awarding this guy? >> obviously i think that there is cause to be pausing on this one. we will be talking about this one. we'll see what happens with the wedding. thank you for your time tonight. >> we'll be right back with a texas sized blunder from rick perry on obamacare. stay with us. wethey were a littlehorizons to mbit skeptical.ss, what they do actually is rocket science. but at ge capital we also bring expertise from across ge, like lean process engineers we asked who does what, when, where, and why that step first? ideas for improvement started pouring out. with a little help from us, they actually doubled their output speed. if you just need a loan, just call a bank. at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know... can help you grow. tonight there's a big old republican mess in rick perry's texas. the gop governor has been rallying against the affordable care act and medicaid expansion for years. >> who can stand on this stage, look obama in the eye and say obamacare is an abomination for this country. >> i think they ought to defund obamacare because it is not going to work. >> medicaid is a failed program. to expand this program is not unlike adding 1,000 people to the titanic. >> giving low income americans health care is like adding people to the titanic? come on, governor. even for you that is pretty bad. the truth is expanding medicaid would help cover nearly a million texans. people all across your state. governor perry doesn't seem to care too much about that. he'll fix health care his own way. in 2011 he appointed a panel of medical professionals to improve health care in the state. now that same panel is coming back with his recommendations. according to the texas tribune the board says the state should provide health coverage to low income texans under the -- wait for it -- affordable care act. unbelievable. rick perry's own panel wants to implement the law that he hates, that he spent so much time trying to stop. everything really is bigger in texas, especially the irony. surely the governor has someway to explain that. >> i can't, sorry.