Justice is justice is today, the parents and relatives of Michael Brown laid their 18yearold to rest as the country looked on. The Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist Church in st. Louis was the scene of outpouring for the brown family, a day where love, grief and anger were summoned at the funeral for a young man taken away violently and too soon. Michael was a big guy, but he was a kind, gentle soul. I would be lying if i said im still anger in my heart. I cant be no fool. You have to do it the right way. You got to keep our dollars in our pockets. We have to look out for each other. He wanted to go to college and have a family. He wanted to be a good father. God chose differently and im at peace about that. Hes not a lost soul. His death is not in vain. Any commemoration of browns life brought into sharp focus questions unanswered. Most regarding race. This mornings New York Times details standard juvenile struggles, but chose to describe the teenager as, quote, no angel. That sparked a flood of angry reacts and a hashtag and the New York Times is guilty of racial standards. Its something they dispute. Today, tributes were mixed with calls for justice and pleas bigger to emerge from his death. He was not 3 5 of a citizen. He was an american citizen. We will not accept 3 5 justice. We will demand equal justice for Michael Brown jr. The value of this boys life must be answered by somebody. This is about justice. This is about fairness. And america is going to have to come to terms with theres something wrong, that we have money to give military equipment to Police Forces, but we dont have money for training and moneying if Public Education and money to train our children. Joining me now is Harvard Law School professor and staff writer for slate. Let me start with you. Reverend sharpton said determined by the fact something went wrong. I look at this case and i wonder, do you think there is a great likelihood that we National Acknowledgement to say nothing of local . I think this is just like the asassuation of dr. King. Its like the killing of Trayvon Martin two years ago and people looking for help. This is a young man who did know wrong in the context of what people were talking about. Here is a young man and the photographs show it, had his hand up, said dont shoot me, was not armed and was shot more than six times. I think this reminds us of what happens years ago, when i was a young kid tor the son. This is worse because Michael Brown did not break any law at all in terms of the police officer. The most that ever happened in this case, he was looking at cigars, took some cigar that is were a misdemeanor. You are, in a sense, punished for that if you want to be punished in the law as a misdemeanor. But he was shot and killed despite trying to say to the police officer, dont shoot, dont shoot. It didnt help at all. Martin luther king were huge moments. Joshua, the president s spiritual adviser, he thinks its the beginning of a real awakening of the civil rights movement. What should that look like to your mind, then . I think are there specific thing that is should be asked for on the National Stage . I think, first of all, we have to make sure our children are safe. We went through it in the 50s and the 60s and this century as well. We went through it with the deaths that happened before. I think it is a new civil rights movement. You see people at this funeral, 2500 people inside and hundreds of people outside trying to get in. It shows this has had not just a local or national, but Global Reaction around the world. People from as far away as australia and the united kingdom, other parts of the world are saying look what happened. This is a Movement Like we have seen before, a multiracial movement, black, brown, white, male, female, every political party. You see them marching. I think we are going to see them keep marching until we see justice for Michael Brown. This is a reminder we may have come a long way with a black president , black attorney general, black people, women on the supreme court. We have made progress, but we are seeing in the criminal justice system, we are taking huge step back. We have to stop that slide backwards and try to figure out how to have justice for children like Michael Brown and other children like him who were simply walking the streets and find them shot and killed by a police officer. It happens in new jersey, new york, washington, california, chicago, theres no place the kids are safe, even from other kids. The reality is, we have to figure out what is wrong . How do we fix it . How do we get kids back to school . In the racial profiling we are seeing over and over again. We talk about the reminders theres a huge gulf of people with different skin color and those with the same skin color. I want to talk about Michael Brown as no angel. You said there is a Straight Line from the little black boys being suspended in preschool to this nonsense. Tell me more about the sort of insidious quality of the no angel line, to your mind. The reality is professor professor professor, im going to let jamal take this one. Tell me why you think its insidious . Sure. We know as a matter of observation of social science that people attach aggressive violence to africanamerican, africanamerican boys. You see this play out, especially in how younger africanamerican boys are treated in classrooms, hence the thing about suspensions. Little black boys are suspended from preschool, a drastic thing to begin with. They are suspended at a rate far beyond the white counter parts. What that attests to is ordinary behavior from a little boy, you know, talking in class, you know, being rambunctious on a playground. Its seen as being aggressive. You negotiation when people look at Michael Browns ordinary teenage behavior, you know, using marijuana, drinking alcohol, shoplifting, things that can say for absolute certainty that i know my white peers in high school and college did or they look at ordinary teenage behavior and say this is ind kaytive of thug behavior or he is no angel. I think that very much is part of a general tendency to interpret behavior from black males as being somehow beyond the pale when its ordinary. Do you think that the professor talks about civil rights. Stereotyping and bias are pushed under the surface. They were more explit plis sit in the 60s. Jim crow laws. Yet, folks are reluctant to acknowledge them and therefore the fight becomes more nuanced than it was 50 years ago. Do you think thats fair to say . I think it is fair to say. One of the interesting transformations about american conversations and racism is that because we no longer have this explicit system of apartheid like jim crow, its become easy for people to say we dont have inequalities. Racism is the worst taboos in the american way. If you say anything that hints at racism, you are going to be excoriated in public life. Those two things create the perception that the problem is no longer there. Obviously, thats not the case. Its how northern whites in the 60s understood themselves with racism. Many saw the lack of explicit antiblack laws, the general taboo and said we dont really have a race problem. In fact, there were broad systems and broad institutions of Racial Discrimination in the north that creates, you know, racial disadvantage that was as bad or worse in the south. Right now, the United States where the north was in the 60s. We have the broad inequalities and the physical instances of Racial Discrimination and systemic disadvantage. Because theres nothing explicit about it, we say its not a problem. Ferguson demonstrates theres a problem. Professor, mark had strong words in terms of where we have come. He contends things, racially in this country have gotten worse since january 20th, 2009. There was a sense that the country had turned the corner. I think today there may be a sense that progress has been a step forward and two steps back. Let me apologize for interrupting before. Its okay. I think what mark had to say is right on point. He only crystallizes what i have been saying for a long time. I had both president obama and the first lady, Michelle Obama as mentors men tees when they were students at harvard. The intolerance of race is much greater. Now people see a divide between individuals. We have a long way to go and i think we have to sit down persontoperson and have this dialogue and do the same thing dr. King did, the same thing andy young did, having the dialogues with people and making sure people understand the color of your skin does not determine your ability to be successful. Its what you have heard from others in the program. Thats what we have to do to go forward. Thank you for your time and thoughts. Thank you. My pleasure. After the break, the white house announced new action in response to outcry over police militarization. We have the way forward and the push back next on now yts. Ts d an all you can eat buffet. And not a have just a little buffet. Because what we all really want is more. Thats why verizon is giving you even more. Now, for a limited time, get more data 1 gb of bonus data every month with every new smartphone or upgrade. Our best ever pricing with the more everything plan and 50 off all new smartphones. Like the htc one m8 for windows or android. Built to inspire envy. Come get your more with verizon. This is charlie. 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Saturday, the New York Times said president obama ordered a comprehensive review of the flow of military equipment in the hands of Police Departments. In the aftermath of 9 11, they have handed out 34 billion in grants to local departments to buy up gear to combat domestic terrorism. The program is handed over another 4. 3 billion in access equipment from the wars in afghanistan and iraq. Its put that machinery on to our nations streets. Sunday, attorney general, eric holder, says displays of force in response to mostly peaceful demonstration ks be counter productive. It makes sense to take a look at whether the equipment is used for the right purposes. The Pentagon Program when it returns in september. With lobbyists and defense contractors happy with the status quo, whether theres enough will to take heavy armor off the streets remains a different matter. Joining me now is New York Times reporter and coauthor of enmys within, matt apu zoe. Thanks for joining me. You have been covering it extensively for the New York Times. For all the news about the white house ordered review about what we are putting on american streets, how optimistic are you that change may come to the policy, given the incentive or lets start, the lobbying efforts on behalf of defense contractors, military contractors and all officer associations representing 1600 s. W. A. T. Groups across the country. They do not want to see it change. Two steps. The thing that is most interesting right now in the city is that it took what happened in ferguson in 2014 to prompt a comprehensive review of what has basically been americas counterterrorism strategy. The fact someone is looking at this for the first time on a wholesale level is really significant. At least its a possibility of the first, most certainly most significant correction on the strategy since 9 11. Whether it will happen, im not sure. For me, its not the lobbyist that is are the big ones. Its the fact that we are americans. We want to support our Police Departments. A lot of people in Congress Want to make sure Police Departments and their cities and constituents get the best stuff. Let me ask you, to that point, the reality that this has been going on. The program has been in place a long time. Theres a headline 11 chilling facts about americas militarized police force. They are making big bucks selling equipment to agencies and dhs grants. You just said that there is that, the defense contractors and then the reality americans want to support their Police Forces and keep the country safe, which is totally understandable on some level. If you had to assess how we got here, how much of this militarized reality is underpinnings and how much does it rise from legitimate concerns about safety . Like so much after 9 11, a lot of it came down to fear. After 9 11, the fear was in washington and frankly a lot of places around the country, terrorists could hit anywhere next. Big cities, obviously in new york, l. A. , chicago, you know, called out for more equipment, more gear, more training and then pretty soon, small and medium sized cities followed suit in small towns. This kind of equipment became the norm. So, you are talking, really, about the push. I mean the push from washington, the push of the gear and the money. The only criticism we heard of the programs the last ten years was are we getting the money out fast enough. Are we getting our fair share . There have been audits raising questions for years, the fact nobody knows what equipment is out there and certainly not whether police are trained to use it. Its always been do we have the equipment that Police Officers need to keep us safe . Are we ready for another attack . Are we prepared . Its driven by that fear that we are armed and fortified for whatever they throw at us. They, being the terrorist. The rollback of the 1033 program is too aggressive for congress, there are more incremental steps we could take including Claire Mccaskill with the National Guard so its used only when needed and theres overnight. Theres also the reality the aclu reported, the federal government requires agencies that received equipment to use it within one year of receipt. Theres a preverse incentive to use the heavy armor, regardless of whether its needed. Do you think those are areas we could see some kind of change . Sure. The law, the one year requirement says it has to be put into use. Now you could argue that maybe theres confusion at the local level. I got an m16 i have to use it. Basically, i think it means tough make it available for Police Department use. You cant keep it warehoused somewhere. Again, clarity, maybe well get more with the coming congress. I think its a good thing that we have some kind of optimism about this. The New York Times matt apuzzo, thank you for your time. 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