David jollys over here selling books, too. I just bought my copy. Its got a bestseller icon next to it so well add that, too. Its a bestseller. So go get it if you dont have it yet. My thanks to everyone who was here for the hour. Karine, ben, david, ron. Most of all, to you for watching. That does it for our hour. Mtp daily with the Fabulous Katy Tur In For Chuck starts now. Welcome to monday. Its meet the press daily. Good evening. Im katy tur into new york in for chuck todd. The houses Impeachment Inquiry is accelerating as attempts to defend the president seem to be growing more extreme. After weeks of denying a quid pro quo with ukraine, President Trump and some Senate Republicans are now trying to justify one. Perhaps, a sign of just how much evidence a piling up and how far
republicans are willing to go to defend the president. Today, we got even more evidence. House investigators have begun releasing transcripts of their depositions, both paving the way for public hearings and rebutting gop complaints about closedoor proceedings. In one of those transcripts, u. S. s former ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch, testified about fearing for her job. She also detailed how some ukrainian officials were worried about basically being used as an arm of the trump campaign. The Committee Also released the transcript from the deposition with michael mckinley, who was Secretary Of State mike pompeos Senior Advisor. Mckinley told House Investigators he quit over the State Department being hijacked for political purposes. The president , meanwhile, is falsely claiming that the transcripti transcripts being released have been manipulated. Hes also escalating his attacks on the whistleblower, demanding they come forward based on his
false claims that their account is wrong. Hes also smearing one of his own National Security advisors and all of this is happening as four white house officials today Defied Subpoenas to testify. There is a lot going on. So let us get the latest from our team of reporters. Jeff bennett is on capitol hill. And Hallie Jackson is at the white house along with Josh Lederman who is in our washington bureau. He recently returned from a reporting trip in ukraine. Jeff bepnnett, lets start with you. Today, a Couple Transcripts were released. How are republicans responding to these transcripts . Are they so claiming that these this testimony is being released selectively . You you are hearing that. Jim jordan, who is on the House Oversight committee, raised a number of questions about why these two transcripts today and why are we getting the ones from sondland and volker tomorrow . House democrats, for their part, havent really given us a good answer as to why they have chosen to release transcripts on given days. But, yes, jordan is he is among those House Republicans who have seemed to settled on there was no Quid Pro Quo Line that you hear President Trump making from The Other Side of pennsylvania avenue. But there are those Senate Republicans who are settling on this different message, which is that, yes, there was a quid pro quo. It, however, was not effective. It was not illegal. So their argument seems to be that it was inappropriate what the president did but it was not wholly impeachable. And the reason youre seeing that, you know, huge difference in messaging, its all coming in the absence of a of a, you know, concerted message and strategy from the white house, katy. So Senate Republicans are sayi saying one thing. House republicans saying another. These transcripts are coming out. Do you expect at some point as the transcripts come out and as more evidence is being released, jeff, more evidence that that witnesses say there was a quid prokwo
prokwoe, but no its not a big deal . Yeah. Its its hard to tell really where this Talking Point will take us. I mean, weve seen it evolve really from the beginning when the when the whistleblower complaint first came out was to suggest that the whistleblower complaint was all based on hearsay. And as witness after witness has really corroborated the whistleblower complaint, youve heard republicans then attack the process. Saying that this should happen in public. Well, now, since the house has voted on, you know, a resolution to authorize and to formalize this Impeachment Inquiry as this now moves into public view at some point, what youre seeing from some republicans is to try to undercut the voracity and the credibility of some of the witnesses. So, you know, its hard to tell really where it will take us. Certainly, House Democrats are making the point and theyve made this point all along that quid pro quo or no quid pro quo, what the president did was illegal they say and impeachable. It is illegal for any u. S. Citizen to solicit anything of value from a Foreign National in connection to an election. And they say that this, you know, damaging information that President Trump so goes the theory of the democratic case, that President Trump leaned on his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani to manufacture, that was a thing of value. And that is why theyre moving forward with impeachment. What theyve been doing for the last month Behind Closed Doors is a private Factfinding Mission really. Trying to piece together how this call happened in large part of a coordinated effort. It was not just the call in isolation House Democrats say. There was a lot of prep work on the front end and a lot of followup work on the back end. Katy. And, josh, one of the gops arguments is that the actions of the president are okay because ukraine never investigated the bidens. There was no pro quo. The president said no pro quo at some point. You were just in ukraine. I know youve been reporting on this. What have you found on whether the ukrainians knew about this and how much pressure they were feeling . Yeah. So the the end part of that argument that you were describing has shifted a few times from what republicans have
been saying, katy. Because at first, remember it was, well, it couldnt have been quid pro quo because they didnt know the aid had been held up or why. And now, it is well, maybe they did know or did know why but the aid was ultimately given to them anyway, which is the new line that weve been hearing from kelly ann conway. But look, talking to folks from ukraine, they were much less concerned about sort of what trump did and whether he was trying to meddle and more on the actual outcome on the ground for them. The fact that theyre engaged in this really upsetting Military Conflict with russia, theyre trying to deescalate that. There are negotiations ongoing to try to get past that conflict. And the fact that they did not have these weapons on the timeline that they were expecting and this assistance to buy those weapons put them at a real disadvantage at a critical time. So thats been the focus weve heard on the ground in kiev. Four people, Hallie Jackson were supposed to testify today. Four witnesses refused to
testify. John eisenberg, National Security council, Legal Advisor the person who is said to have moved the ukraine call to the more secure server. Michael ellis. Robert blair, Senior Advisor to Mick Mulvaney. And brian mccormick, Office Of Management And Budget official. How much pressure is the white house putting on these officials, these advisors, not to go testify in front of congress . And if the white house thinks that this was a perfect call, as the president has described it, why dont they want to let them testify . So keep in mind that the white house has already said here are the reasons why we dont want people who work for this administration to go and talk to members of congress. Theyve already laid out their legal arguments for this. And the four people that you mentioned, katy, as well as four other Administration Officials who are not expected to comply with subpoenas later on this week, including the energy secretary, by the way, these are not the same diplomats we saw who came and defied those white house orders over the last couple weeks, right . These are people who are much closer to President Trump, his inner circle, to Mick Mulvaney for example, the Office Of Management And Budget. These are agencies that are simply closer to the president. And frankly, i think these are people who feel more allied with the president at least at this point like obviously, for example, Secretary Perry who we expect not to show up later this week even though hes been summoned. So i do think that that this is a shift now from what weve seen from the last couple of weeks when people largely associated with the State Department were coming forward being praised by House Democrats for their sort of bravery, for their courage and conviction in coming and speaking with House Investigators. They had been subpoenaed. Versus what were seeing now, which are these Administration Officials who are saying, hey, we are not going to comply with congress. Instead, were going to comply with what the white house wants us to do. You have a couple people who seem to be saying theyre stuck in the middle. That includes former National Security advisor, former deputy National Security advisor, who has by the way filed a lawsuit to the judiciary now to say, hey, you tell me who i should listen to. Should it be congress . Or should it be the white house . But as for this argument that
there is a vacuum in white house strategy and thats why youre seeing maybe these reports that Senate Republicans will start to acknowledge the quid pro quo, keep in mind a couple of things. The facts of this are not in question. There was a hold on this military aid to ukraine. That is just true. Nobody disputes that. That is not a Question Mark here. What is, is the reason why. And that is why i think youre starting to see the argument, increasingly from white house officials, hey, there can be no quid pro quo because ukraine t ultimately did receive the military aid money, which by the way is also true. You also have the argument now jeff talked about a second ago saying, hey, listen, even if there was a quid pro quo, its not impeachable. Its not illegal. I talked to one top democrat on one of the committees earlier today who said, hey, bring on that argument. If you want to litigate that argument to the American People that yeah, the president did this but we think its okay. We are happy to have that discussion. So i think that you are starting to see some democrats who are eager if the republicans are going to come around to that argument, to go ahead and do so already. I wonder how confident the white house feels with that
argument that, yes, the money was released so there wasnt actually a favor for favor because the second favor never happened. The money was released a day after i believe or a couple days after the whistleblower report came out. So it was released after the white house was accused of not releasing it. Thats the timeline of that. Kelly ann conway was asked over the weekend about the timeline. She called it a coincidence or she just shrugged her shoulders basically. Said it could have been a coincidence. Chris wallace i think from fox news suggested that seems like a real big coincidence. Exactly. So im wondering if the white house is comfortable being able to convince Senate Republicans that the president is fully above board on this if it comes to the senate having to have a trial over impeachment. I know ive seen the president. Weve all seen him out with a number of House Republicans over the past week. Theyve brought him to the nationals game. He brought them to the ufc fight over the weekend. Are there any particular senators that the white house is
concerned about . Is it someone like Susan Collins . Is it someone like Cory Gardener . Any of those people . I think i havent heard the name cory gardner as much as ive heard the name Susan Collins, right . Because the white house, the president s allies are looking at the same Political Landscape everybody else is. They know maybe this is going to be a tough vote for a couple senators but a couple republican senators wont change the game on this. And frankly, neither will it matter if maybe a democratic senator crosses a line and decide to vote with republicans if it does come to a senate trial. And again, that is still a couple of steps down the road. I think the white house is looking at this much like everyone else is. The president , yes, has courted House Republicans but i got to tell you theres some reporting out from bloomberg that guess who is on the plane as we speak right now with President Trump . Senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. Hes not an enemy of the president at all. The two have had their disagreements but they talk frequently. I do feel the white house is feeling very ready for this fight. Even if the president were to be impeached by the house, i think
the sense that there is a likelihood of any removal is so far right now at least out of the realm of a possible outcome. That is not so much a concern. The concern right now is sort of fighting and we know that the white house is going to bring in, we think, at least one more person potentially to help work on some impeachment strategy messaging. The president s favorability is sky high. So hes got a lot of leverage over mitch mcconnell. Jeff bennett, the democrats have said all along that theyre confident that as more of this information comes out, theyre confident that theyre going to sway Public Opinion. Public opinion right now is split on terms of impeachment. Half think the president should be impeached and removed. About half. And half think, no, he should not be impeached and removed. What do they know or what are they expecting to happen that will change Public Opinion . Is it just public hearings . You tell me. It is the public hearings and i think some of the insurances they have from some of the people whove testified in private that when they are called back to testify in
public, that they will do that. And that those hearings and this has to do with the resolution that they approved last week, House Democrats, the hearings will look different than any other House Intelligence or House Judiciary Committee hearing youve ever seen before. You will see the witnesses and you will also see the House Intelligence chairman adam schiff and the Top Republican on that Committee Devon Nunez in some cases have 45 minutes to question the witnesses. Split evenly on both sides. At a certain point, they will be able to defer to staffers. Those real subject Matter Experts who can question the witnesses and follow a line of inquiry. You wont see members splitting time. You know, five minutes here, five minutes there. Some members choosing to grandstand. Some members choosing to follow a line of inquiry that goes nowhere. You will see democrats build the case that they have been cobbling together in private for the last three to four weeks really. And also, it also has to do with the ways in which theyre releasing the transcripts. They are releasing the transcripts day after day to
till the narrative that theyve been piecing together. So all of that really is is all a concerted effort to tell the case, to build the public case against President Trump. Josh, i want to look into yovanovitchs testimony a little more closely really quickly. She says she feared for her job. Look at this. She says, President Trump says shes going to go through some things. What do you understand that to mean . Thats a question she was asked. Yovanovitch says, i didnt know what it meant. I was very concerned. I still am. Question, do you fe