I really mean it when i say i could talk to these friends for another hour. My thanks to all of them, and mostly to you for watching. Chuck todd with mtp daily starts now. Welcome to tuesday. It is meet the press daily. Good evening. Im chuck todd in washington where another round of potential bombshell testimony as the president and his allies once again struggle to defend him as democrats unveil their official road map for the next phase of the impeachment inquiry. This afternoon the house laid out a resolution that will lay out the rules and procedures that will govern the next phase
that will include public hearings and the official rollout of the impeachment. It will include an ability for President Trump to have attorneys around. Meanwhile, there was more potentially explosive testimony in the investigation itself from Lieutenant ColonelAlexander Vindman. He is a purple heart recipient, a National Security official who was in on the infamous phone call with the ukraine president. He testified that ukraine a National Security threat, and he twice notified his Chain Of Command and notified the top warrior at the National Security council. To give you a sense of the apparent alarm over this testimony, some of the president s allies even reverted to Smearing Vindman with a trope about his immigrant background, a dual loyalty attack that any
jew, catholic, muslim knows anything about. Trump said he was, quote, a never trumper, someone the president has also called human scum. He also says hes a nonpartisan veteran and patriot. He worried him digging up dirt would, quote, undermine National Security. And after listening in on the president s phone call with the ukraine president , vindman was so alarmed that he notified his top security adviser. The alarm was sounded on a second occasion after Gordon Sondland told the ukranians that they needed to deliver, quote, specific investigations,
unquote, and that included the bidens, joe and hunter biden, and burisma. Jeff, vindman, is he done . No, hes not done. Testimony in Something Like that tends to last eight to ten hours, so he has a few hours to go, chuck. On the substance of it, which you laid out, here you have an army officer assigned to the white house National Security council show up today in full uniform in his dress blues and made the point that he twice flagged complaints about this ukranian pressure campaign, this ukranian gambit. In his Opening Statement said he did not think it was proper for this government to demand demand was an interesting word choice that he chose to demand a Foreign Government to investigate a u. S. Citizen. In that same Opening Statement,
he liens heavily eans heavily oy service, speaks highly of the duty to his country. He fled the soviet union when he was three years old, fled the soviet union for the u. S. That was the grounds that some in the Chattering Class followed that smear, suggesting his loyalties laid elsewhere. Interestingly enough, the tweet you read from President Trump basically saying, why is this guy i never met testifying about me . Democrats say that is precisely the problem. Here you have a man who was a top expert at the nfc, and donald trump didnt know who he was. Why . Because trump was leaning on Rudy Giuliani, was leaning on rick perry, on Gordon Sondland to pressure ukraines leader to manufacture dirt on the bidens, chuck. And, jeff, what can you tell us about Gordon Sondlands decision to review his
transcript . Reporter yeah, he came back here to review his transcript yesterday. That in itself is not necessarily unordinary. Other witnesses have come back to review the hourlong transcript. Whats interesting, though, is that sondlands testimony looks really curious because it is undercut by vindmans testimony. Sondland said at times, i dont recall, where it might set him up for perjury. They think he may have legal cover on some of those grounds, that he was not specific on things that could have gotten him in trouble. Let me move over to the white house. Hans nichols, the rest of the company wrote back today on kber effect phone calls. He seems to be plindside twhd
one. Its almost as if he just learned this Morning Thaveveryt Trump was up to. They either sign a letter saying donald trump should never be president. There are no implications that he ever expressed the ability publicly of the president. The president has been relatively quiet, right . If he has something to say, he generally makes the opportunity. That didnt happen today. By midmorning and late afternoon, he hasnt said much on twitter. Let me caveat that with saying i had to look at my phone for the last two minutes, and white house officials seem to be
huddling trying to find out what their response would be to this revolution that is laying out the parameters for this next phase of impeachment. I suspect well hear from the president on that before we hear from somebody specific about what we learned from Alexander Vindman today. Hans, im glad you brought up the impeachment resolution. It essentially gives the president president s, do they want more . They want more. Theyre not convinced whats being read out in tit. It lays out what theyll be offering, and officials are struggling to reconcile what they read in the evolution r. They dont want them to question the entire impeachment proceedings. Hans, very quickly, is it possible this is todays relative quiet throughout the d daily is it lawmakers struggling tlup, but it seems like they were r going so far. Benjamin hans nichols with Important News to start us off. Joining me now is virginia democratic congressman jerry conley. The house was present today at the closed door vindman deposition, congressman conley. Let me just start with a simple question about what youre willing to share about the deposition. Weve obviously got the opening
stateme statement. What have you learned beyond the Opening Statement that youre willing to share . Well, obviously i cant really comment directly on testimony in closed session, but let me just say i was struck by the fact this individual came forward because of patriotic duty. Hes not a diplomat, hes not a politician, he is a soldier. A soldier who won a purple heart. A soldier who is an immigrant. He was born in ukraine and came to this country when he was three. And he loves america. He was bothered by what he heard and felt dutybound to express his concern to a superior. I think all of america is in his debt. How important or did others inside that room try to make a big deal about where he was born . No. In fact, i think people went out of their way to reassure him and separate themselves from those reprehensible views that were aired yesterday. On both sides of the aisle . Even on both sides of the aisle. Gordon sondlands testimony, we know he wanted to go back and review his transcript. Based on what you have learned between this, does Gordon Sondland need to come back before the committee . I think Gordon Sondland would be well advised to come back to the committee and clarify his testimony in a number of respects. There is testimony, obviously, that seems to be at variance with that of mr. Sondland. So far, of anybody youve taken deposition from, is this the only time youve run into
some contradictions . You mean with respect to Gordon Sondland . Is this the biggest contradiction of testimony youve heard from Gordon Sondland compared to others . Im sure youve got different versions of events, but is this the most stark . I would say its the one that stands out, yes. Youre right, there are some variances here and there, but not on fundamental narrative. Almost everything weve heard corroborates the underlying narrative in almost all respects. There was a story over the weekend in the Washington Post, and its filled with a lot of anonymous sources, unfortunately, because its about the questioning that has taken place behind closed doors. But the report indicates the Washington Post seems to
indicate, and let me read you a portion of it. Republican members and staffers have repeatedly raised the name of a person suspected of filing the whistleblower complaint that exposed trumps effort to pressure ukraine to conduct investigations into his political adversaries, officials said. Republicans appear to be seeking ways to discredit the whistleblower as well as other witnesses, quote, by trying to dredge up any information they can what officials said. Did you notice today an attempt to try to identify the whistleblower . Chuck, let me say this. Its no secret that the white house, President Trump himself, and his employees here have tried to wedge a campaign to out the whistleblower. The committee, which is made up of three committees, are determined to protect the
anonymity of the whistleblower. There is a statutory reason for doing that, and there is a practical reason for doing that, that he or she not be put in any kind of physical danger. Do you now have to i know one of the pledges i thought you guys made was to release as much of these depositions publicly as you can at some point. Do you have to redact these transcripts due to these attempts to out the whistleblower . There will be redactions. Most of them will be to try to protect innocent names that may have come up in eight or nine hours of testimony. But i dont expect Material Redactions other than, as i said, to protect certain identiti identities, and the whistleblower might be one of them. Those transcripts were going to be voting soon on a resolution that pledges to release those transcripts to the public. I want to play for you a couple sound bites from adam schiff and nancy pelosi who made the case, you didnt need an Impeachment Vote in order to go through with your inquiry. Here it is. I think the constitution is very clear. The house will have the sole power of impeach. A and there is no court that will find otherwise. As chairman schumer said, there is no requirement that we have a vote, so at this time we will not be having a vote. Im very pleased with the thoughtfulness of our caucus in terms of being supportive of the path that we are on in terms of fairness, in terms of seeking it is truth, in terms of up hohold the constitution of the united states. So what changed, congressman . Why a vote now on thursday . I dont really know whats changed, because i certainly would agree that the house can set its own terms for proceeding with an impeachment or an impeachment inquiry. The resolution that we will be voting on is not a resolution for a certain inquiry, it is a vote on trying to Caugterize Th Process going forward. Release of transcripts, and the right of the president to crossexamine witnesses. That is new. It really isnt a resolution designed to formalize what were already doing, it is a resolution to set out in as many more detail the process going forward. Is it designed to win over republican support even if you dont support the impeachment, or is this likely to be a pretty partisan vote . Chuck, id love to believe that my colleagues and Friends On The Other Side of the aisle are going to put country ahead of party. So far they evhave not done tha. I dont have any hopes that theyre going to change their behavior now. I think thats a sad thing for the country, but thats what were dealing with. But that cant deter umpls frs from protecting the constitution we promised to defend and protect. By caudifying the process, does this make it harder for the white house to prevent john bolton from testifying . I think it does, because it guarantees the white house an opportunity for direct input and Cross Examination and representation, even in closed sessions. So thats a new development. That would be a new prerogative for the white house in this process, which might make
witnesses of john bolton more comfortable, or it might make the white house more comfortable with witnesses such as these or not . I think it helps us understand the rules of the. Impeachment is the gravest opportunity. Congressman jerry conley post editorial page lucy marcus, kimberly atkins, and also security analyst evelyn farkas. She served as the deputy of defense in africa and asia. Evelyn, let me start with you. Considering the work youve done in both Eastern Europe and in russia, what kind of witness do you expect him to be . Yeah, chuck, i have to say i dont know him personally but ive seen his name on documents so he was a wellknown officer. These people are very expert. They lived in the field. I think he already referenced he lived in moscow and then ukraine. How do you get this job . How do you get picked to be an nfc uniformed Military Person . You have to be one of the top experts. You have to be a very solid, very reliable professional. You have to be smart. You have to be a good writer. You have to exercise good judgment. Hes not a very good officer in The Grand Scheme of things, but yes, he has a great responsibility and hes dealing probably regularly on the phone and otherwise with people who are much more senior in the Minister Of Defense and ukraine and countries hes dealing with. Pl hes got a lot of responsibility, a lot of knowledge. Obviously his background and helpful because he probably grew up fluent. Manicall manically. Requesting the patriotism, questioning the dedication to Lieutenant Colonel vindman who will be coming today and others who have testified. Its a shame to question their patriotism, their love of this nation, and we should not be involved in that process. Let me roll the first of what he was reacting to. If you look at this, we know he got the purple heart in iraq. He tends to feel sympatico about the constitution. His main concern was to make sure the u. S. Got those weapons. We as a rule have an affinity of our homeland. Its interesting, clearly the republicans didnt also distanc deck Civil Servant working in the white house off he did his service for the army. It doesnt seem like thats a good road to go down. I think some are trying to portray him for somebody that has sympathies, dual loyalties, et cetera. In a way maybe were trying to give coverage to Rudy Giuliani. I keep coming back to say Rudy Giuliani is the person who didnt belong here. He was not an employee of the white house. He did not have security clearance. He was not cleared by the senate in the state department. He was the one acting in a way that made us question whether he violated foreign relation laws,
not that person that seems there will be one set up here. Matt, this is something that seems to happen when you dont have a coordinated strategy. Youre absolutely right. Notice when those were. They were last night right after the story popped and early in the morning before they were able to marshall a message. They have more credibility to shut it down. And look who is behind her. This is a political fight, its a communications fight. Its not a legal fight in large part. They need to move numbers as best they can. I think its also important, too, when you talk about members of congress and stories like this, i think thats why youre seeing a lot of republicans, especially ones ive talked to, very worried about going far out on a limb to support the president. I was told, look, there isnt
going to be very Many Republican votes on thursday. As thin as the limb is, the limb is also thin trying to win reelection. Can we get back to the message in the war room . I totally believe this white house needs a war room, it needs to do a better job with its message, but you do not need a war room to tell you not to attack the patriotism and loyalty of a uniformed officer. That should have been known last night. With friends like these guys, you dont need enemies, they just their situation was already really difficult last night and just made it worse. Then when he showed up in the morni morning, that was just stupid to do. Theyre struggling, struggling to get anything. Im not saying it was trite, it
was wrong in every aspect. Warren could be in the closs wet a math book and you fwornd remember, he fills fld he does go back, that cant be good news for the president. No. Its interesting to me they would allow him, though, to make such meaningful changes. I unfortunately went through a similar situation with them under the last congress, republican controlled, and they allowed me to review any transcript. I dont know whether they released it or not. It was more for typos, make sure they didnt get anything wrong, it wasnt for substance. If i had a substantive change, i dont know what would have resulted. Maybe that will let him, prove helpful to them, theyll let him
do it, i dont know. I want to say another thing about ukranianamericans. This guy vin man came with az a. They come here on coming here by believe america represents everything thats good in this world and they want a part of it. And not only did this family want a part of it, but three of their sons then went into the milita military, including Lieutenant Colonel vindman, and of course he was injured in the protcess. I think its important to highlight that. And hello, ukranianamericans . Theyre all over the midwest. Absolutely. T