which george h.w. bush was. and by not going partisan, george w. bush helped remind us just how starved we are for decency in american public life. >> and i'm going to leave you with that picture, get ready to put to rest one of our points of light, one of my points of light, the 41st president. thanks to nancy, brett, nick, elise. that's it for this hour. i'm any coko nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" is next with chuck todd. >> good evening, i'm chuck todd here in new york. and welcome to "mtp daily." moments ago, president george h.w. bush's remains arrived by train in college station. next is a burial ceremony at the george bush presidential library. we will be keeping an eye on these proceedings as the 41st president is officially laid to rest in a few minutes. we'll take you back there, but we're going to begin tonight with yet another piece of reporting that raises questions if the trump administration's foreign policy is for sale. it raises other questions about whether bob mueller might be investigating something much bigger than just russian interference, but a massive pay to play scheme involving the president. according to "the washington post," saudi-funded lobbyists paid for 500 rooms at the president's hotel in washington after the 2016 election. they racked up a bill of more than $270,000. now, fast forward to the president's redecent decision t side with the saudis of the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. it would appear to be an example where the saudis could appear to have paid and the u.s. played. making matters worse is how blatantly the president is seemingly trying to cover up his personal business ties to the saudis, which appear to extend well beyond a few hundred rooms at his d.c. hotel. >> we are with saudi arabia, we're staying with saudi arabia. and by the way, just so everybody -- i have no business whatsoever with saudi arabia. i like is saudis, they're very nice. they buy all sorts of my stuff. all kinds of toys from trump. they pay me millions and hundreds of millions. just so you understand, i don't make deals with saudi arabia, i don't have money from saudi arabia, i have nothing to do with saudi arabia. i love saudi arabia, the people are very nice to me. they buy my apartments, you wouldn't believe it. it's true. they'll pay me anything. they have nothing but money. >> we'll let you decide which trump to believe, but here's where the saudi connection might be of interest to bob mueller's investigation. and this certainly adds to the appearance that multiple foreign governments tried to buy access to the president's foreign policy, and there is the appearance that some were successful. just last week, we learned that mr. trump was being briefed during the election on a possible deal with the russians to wild a trump tower in moscow, which included the consideration of a $50 million penthouse for putin, which was going to be used as marketing. and just jeyesterday, mueller disclosed information that his national security adviser was working as an agent for turkey. i'm joined now by tonight's super panel. kimberly, let me start with you. here, this saudi story, on one hand, it's -- it feels separate from what mueller's doing and on the other hand, the larger picture here is, who has leverage with this president, suddenly seems as if that might be the greater question needing to be asked. >> i think that's exactly right. i mean, you have this case, which seems to be a textbook example of what the emoluments clause is about. there should not be foreign officials, foreign nationals, buying influence when it comes to the president of the united states. and here we have an example of where foreign nationals spent large amounts of money at a trump property, ostensibly to curry favor with the president of the united states. the trump administration. this is something that is not exactly new, we have seen since the election foreign nationals, diplomats saying, going to trump tower saying, yes, this is a great way to try to curry favor, to try to gain access to the president. the same thing with mar-a-lago. but with respect to the mueller investigation, from what the unredacted part of the flynn -- of the flynn sentencing report we saw, there are other investigations going on, aside from just the straight russian interference investigation that we don't know about yet. we don't know if this is something that mueller is already looking into. >> well, susan, i want to play for you, the irony in all of this is, of course, candidate donald trump was excoriating the clintons on a pay to play scheme quite a bit. take a listen. >> it's called pay for play. pay for play. pay for play. pay for play. pay for play. really, really bad, and illegal. 100% illegal. pay for play. >> if you are outraged by the clinton foundation, and plenty of people i think legitimately were, because it was a question of, what are you doing here, you're at least hanging out a sign for foreign governments to try to influence then secretary of state clinton. what is the difference? >> there isn't. because both are based on perception. if the president was serious about wanting to at least put this issue aside, he would have gone into a blind trust. of course, he should have shown his tax returns and everything else. but why didn't he go into a blind trust? because he still wanted to have control over his business. which means his business is a way to get to him. and that's what's so concerning about what we saw with the candidate, giving, you know, offering a $50 million apartment to putin or when it comes down to the saudis. let's not forget, everyone knows this president's transactional. he said -- >> he brags about it. >> he said -- the reason not to go after saudi arabia with khashoggi, the journalist who was murdered, was because they buy our military goods. i guess that's always what trump referred to as toys earlier, i don't know. but it's -- that's the big fu fundamental problem with trump, is that he becomes not just transparent, but translucent. you can see just right through him and where to go. >> let me play for you the s.o.t. that basically, the soundbyte from the president that essentially is rationalizing the saudi arabia decision and listen to how he rationalizes it. take a listen. >> they're buying hundreds of billions of dollars worth of things from this country. it means hundreds of thousands of jobs. i'm not going to destroy the world economy and i'm not going to destroy the economy for our country by boeing foolish with saudi arabia. if you want to see oil prices go up to $150 a barrel, all you have to do is break up our relationship with saudi arabia. >> well, lindsey graham had something to say about that today. take a listen to that. >> we tolerate bad behavior, that's part of politics at times, but this is an ally. if you get in the orbit of the united states, if you want to buy our weapons and integrate your economy into ours, there's a certain price to be paid, don't chop somebody up in a consulate. that's not too much to ask. >> eugene? >> no, it's not too much to ask. and you heard the rationalization. the saudi relationship is all about the money, according to president trump. and really, it's even more about his money. and in a sense, if you step back, i mean, this was always going to come down to money with donald trump. with everything we know about him. i -- you know, one assumes, and actually we know, or we think we know, that, if not mueller than the southern district of new york and new york state attorney general's office and maybe the manhattan district attorney are all looking at various aspects of trump's money. there's -- and the trump organization, trump foundation, there's a lawsuit going on about the emoluments clause, about -- involving the states -- surrounding states here, and it's -- you know, so, this is all sort of closing in, i think, or closing in on some truth about trump and his business interests that potentially could be explosive. >> noah, where's the -- you think there should be more outrage about this on the right? >> i don't know, frankly. i'm not entirely sure that another presidency would act any differently with regard to the saudi arabian -- >> would another presidency have put their businesses in a blind trust? >> almost certainly. but establishing that there's some sort of quid pro quo here, unless there's a paper trail, would be very difficult -- >> do his words create the paper trail, though, in some ways, the president's transactional bragging about, hey, they buy our oil, they buy our gas. >> yeah, that's why it's strange, because our genuine interest with the saudi government is in geopolitics and security. and that's what the president should be saying, is that we use them as a means s to contain iranian influence. and that is where our relationship is. saudi arms purchases from the united states wouldn't shave a point off gdp. their oil exports, while important, are nowhere near as important as they were a decade ago. the president uses these explanations, rationalizations, but our trust interest is in geopolitics and no administration would jettison that relationship. >> why does he jeopardize it, by not showing the public what his interests really are with saudi arabia? when they start -- when they gave the donations of the income they received in the hotels, they made a donation recent it will for x amount of dollars and said, take our word for it, this is what we believe we have to donate. any other administration would give all of the information out there because they had nothing to hide. and by not doing it, at least makes you think they must have something to hide. >> that's the thing. it's the perception, that was always the concern of the clinton foundation. we're going to actually, i believe, sneak in a quick break here and then we're going to come back -- oh, no, sorry. we are moving towards it, sorry, we are -- the president, they're about to take him to his resting place, his final resting place at college station, at texas a&m. i'm switching conversations here a little bit. this is -- obviously, we want to follow this. i'm just curious, noah, what should young conservatives take away from george h.w. bush? >> they should perhaps take away that there was a particular code of conduct that was valued by a generation past that is no longer valued. that is looked upon as naive, as perhaps a little dated, as not sufficiently cynical, enough to navigate the world around you. that is something that, i think, is particularly lamentable. in part because, and we've talked so much about it, john meachum delivered a spectacular eulogy in discussing the codele of conduct how george h.w. bush navigated life, and it is one that's lost. his presidency, his legacy of a president is debatable. his character is not. and character counts. and if we take away anything from the trump era, it should be that. >> eugene robinson, it struck you, you were on the news side of "the post" for quite a bit of the bush presidency. >> yeah. >> one of the things that struck me the most yesterday was how we were talking about how shocking it was that he worked across the i' aisle, or how extraordinary it was he had a relationship with sonny montgomery, a long-time democrat from the south, and you say, you know why -- back then, that wasn't extraordinary, that was just washington. >> yeah, it was -- nothing extraordinary about it at all. you know, at that point, people certainly had fresh in their memory the friendship between ronald reagan and tip o'neill. and the way washington had worked, really, for our entire lifetimes until recently. it just wasn't the case that washington was so tribal that there were not relationships across the aisle. it wasn't until fairly recently that all republicans were very conservative and all democrats were liberal. it was -- there were liberals and moderates and conservatives in both parties when i was growing up, and, really, to the -- through the reagan years. it -- things changed. but so, you know, this is a chance to sort of remember those earlier times. i don't know that, i mean, we don't immediately recapture them, we don't go back immediately to the way things used to be, but i think it's very useful to know, as noah said, that there's a different model for all of this. there's a different model for personal conduct. there's a different model for political conduct. that, you know, many people remember and think was a much better model than what we have now. >> i was struck by something today, someone wrote a brilliant line, i apology, that the real end of an era was that the president should be all consuming. and we have made the presidency all consuming and smaller at the same time, when george h.w. bush was president, it was not all consuming and yet larger. >> it was so much bigger than him, and i just think, one of the things i take away from his presidency, but that's where i entered into politics. >> i assume this was your first professional person. >> exactly. it was that he believed that your political principles can guide your policies, but they must not dictate how you govern. you always have to put interest of country first. and that was -- that's what stayed with you, and now looking at where the country is, i don't think anyone's willing to sacrifice their political beliefs to put their country first. >> kimberly, have we -- part of this is, have we helped make the presidency too all consuming? >> i think so. i think it's good this week to have this reminder that the presidency and american politics in general has not always been this scorched earth, all or nothing, brutal battle. people have always had political differences, of course. and president h.w. bush was not perfect. but it does -- he did govern in a way and at a time where there was a sense of personal responsibility, a sense of patriotism that didn't equal tearing down the other side. and i think having that reminder, i hope, that that leaves some lasting mark on washington after this week, that reminder that working together doesn't have to be a dirty word. >> eugene, george h.w. bush wasn't interested in being a celebrity. and i'm not saying that the last -- that the one and the last three presidents before them, i'm not going to sit here and say that obama, w and clintons wanted to be celebrities, but they became bigger than the presidency itself, sort of in the reverse. do you think -- how do you -- how do we -- can you change that, or are we forever sort of stuck on this model until somebody gets elected and says, you know what, i'm shrinking the personality of the presidency. >> you know, i -- chuck, i think it's possible that just the media and communication and the information age and all that potentially has changed things to the point where, at least a certain degree of celebry if i case is evidentable. that's a hypothesis, i'm not sure that's certain. one thing that could change, successive presidents, republican and democratic, have sort of, enlarged the powers of the presidency, have grabbed power from a congress that became increasingly gridlocked and dysfunctional and unable to, you know, to do its job, basically. and some people would say that's the demise of the seniority system, which was, you know, had its problems, but did work. some people say, you know, bring back earmarks, that allowed things to happen. even though, you know, it wasn't necessarily the fairest system, but whatever you want to trace it to, congress isn't working, and because congress isn't working, it -- the power sort of devolves to presidents, and so the presidency becomes more important than the founders intended it to be, and probably more important than it should be. >> why don't we step aside here, just watch. there's, for some reason, it feels -- there's a finality of this. after the week, there's a finality of this, i think we ought to step back here and take a listen. ♪ >> the family heads to what will be a private service for the final burial of the 41st president. we'll take a quick break, be back right after this. ♪ minimums and fees. they seem to be the very foundation of your typical bank. capital one is anything but typical. that's why we designed capital one cafes. you can get savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. and one of america's best savings rates. to top it off, you can open one from anywhere in 5 minutes. this isn't a typical bank. this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet? 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maybe you should think again. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy and the power of 1-2-3. ♪ trelegy 1-2-3 save at trelegy.com. this is moving day with the best in-home wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. and this is moving day with reliable service appointments in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back. if america's foreign policy if for sale, a lawsuit accusing the president of violating the emoluments clause could provide the receipts. maryland and washington, d.c.'s attorneys joer s general filed w lawsuit. earlier this week, those attorneys general is up pinaed five federal agencies and trump organizations for records that could expose foreign spending at the hotel. with me now is maryland's attorney general. mr. frosh, welcome back to the show. let me ask you this. i understand how maryland has standing for this. explain to me how washington, d.c. has standing in this, if they're collecting d.c., you know -- the trump hotel is in the district, so, they are, certainly, not being penalized in getting taxes and things like that. >> well, look, d.c. not only has governmental entities that suffer from competition by the trump post office hotel like the convention center, but it has many other businesses that suffer from the trump hotel's competition. restaurants, hotels, et cetera. that's how they have standing. >> so, obviously, there's a story today about how saudi lobbyist purchased hotel rooms for lobbying purposes, in order to get a -- in order to get -- recruit veterans to help them lobby against a bill they didn't like in congress. if americans are representing the saudis, does that fall under the emoluments clause? if it's an american lobbyi inin organization, i'm just curious, legally, would you be able to make that case, if it's an american entity purchasing the room? >> you mean because the money's been laundered before it gets to the trump post office hotel -- >> that's your word, not mine, but i guess that would be the argument you would make, right? >> i don't think that works as a defense. but there have been many direct payments, whether orp not those payments, the payments from the lobbying firm on behalf of the saw dips to the trump post office hotel qualify or not. we've seen repeated examples of direct payments through the post office hotel from foreign governments and from state governments. state of maine brought a delegation down here. united states government has paid money to the trump post office hotel, and all of those are emoluments within meaning of the constitution. >> explain -- let me -- you said the state of maine. they fall under the emoluments clause? i thought it was only supposed to be foreign money. >> they do. there are two emoluments clauses. the first is the foreign emoluments clause that says that the president may not receive any present or any emolument of any kind whatever from a foreign state. the domestic clause says that the president gets only his salary and may not receive any other emolument from the united states or any of them, any other state. so, when he receives payments from the united states above and beyond his salary, or when he sevens a payment from another state, those are both violations of the domestic emoluments clause. >> what constitutes a payment to him, if he is currently not running the trump organization? >> well, if he receives any gain profit or advantage from the payment, that's a violation of the emoluments clause. look, what the clauses were designed to do was to show th that -- to make clear that the president must put the interest of all other americans above his own. we ought to be able to know when the president is governing and acting in his executive capacity, that he's not thinking about his own financial interest, that he's not thinking about himself. and that's why these payments are barred, the framers didn't want him to be under the influence of a foreign state or use the united states government as his atm. >> what does relief look like for the state of maryland? so, a judge, let's say you win your lawsuit, they're going to outline what they believe will be relief here. what will that look like, in your best case scenario? >> the judge will enjoin president trump from receiving any further payments from foreign governments, from the united states other than his salary, and from any other state. >> how would they enforce that? >> well, that's up to the court to figure out. but it should be self-enforcing. when a judge issues an order and says to the president, don't do it, he risks being held in contempt of court and there are other sanctions that could be applied, as well. >> the reason i ask this is because it is not clear to me how you police and enforce the emoluments clause. a lawsuit is one way. let's say you get your relief. he's said he's donating all of his foreign profits and they sent to the federal treasury, so he gave some 150,000, i think, is what they claimed was foreign profits off of the hotel to the federal treasury sure. whose job would it be to double check that? >> well, the issue is not what his profits are. he's not allowed to receive any payments, period. so, he's trying to negotiate the terms of the emoluments clauses, but the united states constitution is not negotiable. just the fact that he sevens a payment is a violation of the emoluments clauses. it doesn't matter if he's making or losing money. if he's getting money from saudi arabia, he's violating the constitution. >> so, you get this relief and that means you need to get him to go to a blind trust? one would assume that's about the -- i mean, the court is going to order this, they got to come up with a -- they got to come up with a way to do it. is that the expectation? >> well, it's going to be up to the court and up to trump, i mean, there are lots of ways that he can avoid violating the emoluments clauses. he can sell the trump post office hotel and his other properties, though they're not at issue in our lawsuit. he can give them away. i'm not sure that a blind trust in these cases would be sufficient, because he knows what's in the trust. it's, at least from the trump post office hotel or the ownership of mar-a-lago or one of his hotels or condominiums in new york. it may be difficult for him, but this is what he signed up for when he ran for president. >> how much do you need his tax returns or is this financial disclosure form enough? i say this, because through his financial disclosure, we learned they started a new llc where he earned $100,000 just selling trump 2020 t-shirts. and other trump para fa nail ya. number one, would that be a violation of the emoluments clause? >> well, him profiteering is off the office is repugnant, but not necessarily a violation. unless he's getting paid by a foreign government, a state government or the united states government may not violate the emoluments clauses. and he -- it's easy for him to stop that kind of conduct. it's really disrespectful, i think, of the office, but not necessarily a constitutional violation. >> all right, you're subpoenaing five different federal agencies, you've talked about the state of maine, 13 different organizations. are they cooperating? at this point? >> well, the subpoenas have only just been served. we'll know in a matter of weeks whether or not folks are going to cooperate. and i believe because we're subpoenaing a number of different agencies and organizations, we'll have various degrees of cooperation. >> just one of many different areas where the president's personal finances coming under scrutiny. brian frosh, democrat from maryland, thank you for coming on, sharing your views. >> thanks for having me, chuck. up next, the president's undocumented worker problem, and it gets personal. guess who is working at president up trump's golf club in new jersey? welcome back. tonight in 2020 vision, the crowded democratic presidential primary is going to be ugly. that we know. and that's reason enough for at least one candidate to say, i'm not running. >> it's time for democrats to grow a backbone and stand up for what we believe. >> deval patrick, once one of the democratic party's rising stars, has decided not to run for president in 2020. in a statement today, the former massachusetts governor says he won't seek the dnomination, citing quote, cruelty of the election process. the inevitable comparisons with a fellow bay stater, elizabeth warren, had already started to ramp up after he met with president obama earlier this year. >> i describe myself as a capitalist, i'm not a market fundamentalist. >> by our count now, that's at least 33 democrats that we're calling still flirting with a bid. we'll see if the anticipated ugliness of the campaign season is enough to keep a few more from jumping in. we'll be back with more "mtp daily" right after this. do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back? 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we will put our people, not people from other lands, our peop people, back to work. we will hire americans. american hands and american labor. hire americans. hire americans. hire american. hire american, right? >> welcome back. time now for "the lid." president trump talks the talk about hiring american and getting tough on illegal immigration, but a new report shows he isn't walking the walk. "the new york times" is out today with a stunk new story highlighting an undocumented immigrant, quite a few, that worked at the president's golf club in new jersey. like a maid from guatemala, who has duties like making the president's bed, cleaning his toilet, since she startled working there in 2013. this is in her interview. "i ask myself is it possible that this senor thinks we have papers? he knows we don't speak english. why wouldn't he figure it out?" our panel is back. noah, i know some of these things, the president says one thing and does another, right, on some of this stuff and he has a history of this, back to when he built at trump tower using illegal workers, caught during the building of the trump hotel in d.c., and now this. does his credibility matter here? >> yeah, i see a fair built of hypocrisy here that's evident on just about every side. so, the president now, he spends a lot of time discussing how immigration, particularly unskilled immigration displaces american workers, but the administration has sought the -- >> not the administration. trump organization. at mar-a-lago. >> and the administration has consented to that they consente allowed for the increase that should be visas. they were talking about the emoluments. as to whether or not this particular undumted work er sai no evidence he knew that. he claimed to use the e ver vie and it came to the trump building. i asked him about this during the campaign. let's take a listen. >> the trump company hired illil immigra immigrants. >> he even paid a million dollar fine. "the washington post" interviewed about 15 laborers at the d.c. hotel reporting that many said they entered the u.s. illeg illegally. >> you don't practice what you speech on immigration the one judge is from 35 years ago. when people have to go 35 years back to find out about workers and as far as one of the greatest hotels in the world between the capital building and the white house, there were no illegals. we do checks like you wouldn't believe. >> kimberly atkins, he tries to talk his way without of this stuff. does it matter? >> it matters for two reasons. on tell us we know when the economy booms, those in the reportity industry said repeatedly they depend on immigrant labor to survive. we are seeing from trump himself that that is the case. these are jobs often filled by immigrants and particularly in good economic times and trump's to be visa request is reflected. it also reflects in terms of those from mexico and central american countries and really horrifically derock torrey terms like vacuum the floors and wash his under way. it's more than hypocritical. it's very problematic especially to republicansas they continue to say they want to expand their base. >> for seems like the business wing that would say see, will you hurry up and legislate this. >> this is happening today. not to harp on the fact, but this is why presidents put their companies into grind trust. he is responsible for what happens at his golf courses. he receives financial benefit from it. of course there should be wnl his own party to get it done. now he just sits there and looks like a rip krit. >> when you had republicans saying look, he claims he cares about illegal immigration, but look at his business practices. it didn't work for other republicans. i believe that ad was a super back ad. >> so who knows. i am not surprised that the times was able to find an immigrant working at bed minster and find out that others worked there and in fact i would be surprised if you didn't find the same at mar a lago and other trump properties. i wonder since this is a central issue and i do wonder whether this might have some impact in the trump base. this is the central thing. immigration and illegal immigration is bat. >> this woman has a secret service and went through a background check. i wonder about the background checks at the white house. >>. >> the 2018 campaign is not over. in fact we have a with drawn concession. it may not surprise you that the with drawn concession is in that north carolina ninth district and the democrat there just tweeted out a video of himself and said i didn't serve overseas to come home and watch a criminal. they didn't take away people's right to vote and call on mark harris to end his silence and the head of the north carolina republican party and maybe there needs to be a good election. i have a feeling it will go into 2019. >> it has to. no other way as you said here and this is not difficulty with counting the votes. >> a crime may have been committed in the primary and the general. >> right. i can't think of another solution than a new election. >> that's what we are going to have. >> thank you very much. thank you for getting both stories today. we'll be right back. liberty mutual accident forgiveness means they won't hike your rates over one mistake. see, liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i saw my leg did not look right. i landed. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared. i had a dvt blood clot. having one really puts you in danger of having another. my doctor and i chose xarelto®. xarelto®. to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner that's... proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical studies, almost 98% of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. xarelto® works differently. warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your body's natural blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. while taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. learn all you can... to help protect yourself from another dvt or pe. talk to your doctor about xarelto®.