Vendetta. Our children and their children will answer, what did you do . What did you say . Afforded more rights to jesus than the democrats have afforded this president. I will vote to impeach donald trump. It doesnt really feel like were being impeached. I dont know about you, but im having a good time as president. The yahs are 230. The nahs are 197. Article one is adopted. And there you have it. You know, a lot has happened this year, but one of the houses final actions of all of 2019 was this historic action, impeaching President Trump for abuse of power and obstruction of congress for behavior that would have really been unthinkable for almost any president until donald trump took office. We used to care about democracy. We used to care about our allies. We used to stand up to putin and russia. We used to. You may one day be in the majoritiment and you will want to hold a president accountable. And what will you say when that president says you are a paper tiger. You have no oversight. I can ignore your subpoenas. What will you say . What will you say . What will you do . What will the senate do in the new year. Anyone that tells you they know does not know what they are talking about because a lot of the rules are yet to be determined. As the action moves over to the senate eventually, democrats are saying one thing they want is more evidence to be heard. Ledder mcconnell is plotting the most rushed, least thorough and most unfair impeachment trial in modern history, making this the first Senate Impeachment trial of a president in the history that heard no witnesses. Is this president s case so weak that none of the president s men can defend him under oath . These are just some of the battle lines we are tracking. They will be worked out in this time ahead. Democrats have multiple tools to force certain types of changes and also to force public accountability. I have a breakdown on that tonight. But we begin with history unfolding before our very eyes, something many people thought should happen. No one knew if it would happen. We are talking about the impeachment of donald trump. The yahs are 230. The nahs are 197. Article one is adopted. We begin now with former counsel to the mayor of new york city, a veteran of the Southern District of new york and kurt anderson, a longtime trump chronicler in new york. Good evening to both of you. Good evening. I want to start with you, not with the law, which we often do and well get to, but with the trumpiness of this. He got himself into the exact situation that he hates, rebuke, a mark, bad branding. And while there are many people who will still try to defend him and his party certainly in the conservative media, lets reflect for a moment how this person, who is certainly effective at certain things, was so blusteringly ineffective in this in a way that will haunt him literally in his obituary. Yeah. Now, the question do you talk about a mentally deranged person as being effective or ineffective . There is a kind of compulsive derangement about him where the most extraordinary thing he said almost four years ago in iowa before he had the nomination was that famous thing, you know, its crazy, i could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and get away with it. They love me. Well, that, apart from any rational calculation about avoiding impeachment and playing the political game, that kind of compulsion about proving that thats true is what this is all about. He cant help himself. And of course that is part of what his base loves, is hes honest. And in that sense, he is honest. He cant really cover his true sentiments, feelings, desires, including that they will love him no matter. What lets dig into the ethics of that because norm breaking, law breaking, rule breaking, there is certainly a rebellious american ethic in that. You want to go back far enough, we declared our independence from the old rules. And, yet, isnt there an ethical difference between some notion of rebellion and renewal and what he stands accused of, which is not being stand, not being ethical but needing to cheat, needing to extort allegedly foreign power to remain in power. Thats what the federalist papers have been quoted a lot last week in the debate, so to speak, over his impeachment. But if you look at the federalist papers and look at the history of how the impeachment clause was written, it was exactly about preventing this kind of complicity with foreign powers, about which the founders were freaked out whether it was the british or the french or to be named later. And, so, he is the guy. And this is precisely the behavior that they were writing to have a way to punish and get rid of such a president. Yeah, he is that dude. He is that dude. To paraphrase jefferson. One of the few voices who has emerged, highly conservative libertarian. But take a look at his case against trump in being a republican who left the party over what he calls trumps abuse of power. Impeachment is not about policy disagreements or ineffective governance, nor is it about criminality based on statutes that did not exist at the time or constitution was written. Impeachment is about maintaining the integrity of the office of the presidency. And ensuring that executive power is directed toward proper ends in accordance with the law. His actions reflect precisely the type of conduct the framers of the constitution ended to remedy through the power of impeachment, and it is our duty to impeach him. Yes, i think mr. Mosh is absolutely right. And it actually goes to the way in which many of the republicans were confusing and misrepresenting what has happened and what the evidence is in this impeachment process because they not only said things like the process wasnt fair and there was not due process. Thats not true. Donald trump got the same opportunities that nixon got and that clinton got in terms of being able to cross examine witnesses if he had so chosen and many other things. But its this argument that you didnt prove a crime and you didnt have direct evidence, and everything that kind of distracted from the actual issues here, which is exactly what mr. Mosh said is, did this president under with an oath where he swore that he would be faithful to the office, did he use it for his own personal gain in a way that was exactly, to kurts point, exactly what the founders worried about . Yeah. And exactly what our constitution was designed to protect us from. It was not designed to protect us from people rebelling in the sense of, you know, having disagreements to his point about policy, fighting with one other about the right direction for the country, what our Foreign Policy should be. It was, though, about saying, i will take all the power that i have and i will deploy it all to my own benefit against the interests of the country. Yeah. And thats why now he stands awaiting a trial. Thats right. Which is something he has been running from his whole life. Both of you stay with me. Speaking of trials, i want to bring in another former u. S. Attorney. Good evening to you. When you look at this coming senate trial, what can we glean from the trial system in the United States which you know so much about about how it should work, what is fair and where is it necessarily different . Thanks, ari. It is a very different process obviously and there is two fundamental differences. Obviously in a criminal trial, there are a set of laws and rules that we all know that dont get changed in the middle of trial. We know what the evidence rules are. We know what due process is. The courts have analyzed it and its set there. The other thing of course is the jury is very different. In a trial we have voir dire. We have a system to make sure that there are fair and impartial jurors who judge the facts and the law solely on whats presented to them in the court. And thats not how our impeachment process works. Well, karen on voir dire that allows you to question the jurors and get rid of ones that arent fit to be in the trial, i think americans would have plenty of views of who they would eliminate if we had that view for the senate right now. Yeah. I think thats true. Thats what i meant. There is a fundamental difference in how the actual trial is meant to occur in the senate versus what a trial is in a criminal process. Theyre very different. The trial in the senate, we also have the system is were not sure exactly what the rules are going to be. There are rules that existed in previous impeachment trials, but as, i think, you have pointed out, they can change in the middle of the process. Yeah. So were in this, you know, odd situation where were not sure what the rules are going to be. If you will permit me to be somewhat lofty, what should americans take from this system that is that is a possibility in our constitution rarely exercised and we lived during times that are both hyperbolic and cynical. Everything is the biggest deal ever, but also nothing matters. It could be very disorienting. Yet, isnt it fascinating and potentially constructive for the country to sit back and say, oh, the president is not above the law. Whatever happens at a trial, he has to go through one. And what are we to take from it as a citizenry that there is this system provided for in the constitution . Well, i think it is obviously it is a very, very important fundamental rule that the president is not above the law. Thats why the framers put this impeachment process into the constitution and didnt just say, well, well wait for elections. And there is, looking on the Positive Side going through this process, well let people know that our democracy still exists. On the other hand i think, you know, were all sort of worried by if mcconnell tries to run it as a situation where, you know, were not going to listen to the facts. Were just going to have argument and makes it a sham trial, you know, thats a very difficult situation unless it creates rules that become more permanent for the future. Yeah. I think you lay that out so well. I think viewers have come to understand just how much power u. S. Attorneys have in our federal system. You have been in that post and we always appreciate your wis m wisdom. Thank you so much. Thank you, ari. Appreciate it. Turning back to the panel here in new york and karen brings so much to the table, i want to play a little bit of spee Speaker Pelosi who shows this is more than rules and constitutional text, she also shows that she more so than other folks in washington gets how to deal with this probsessed president. Our founders when they wrote the constitution, they suspected that there could be a rogue president. I dont think they suspected that we could have a rogue president and a rogue leader in the senate at the same time. Kurt, on the level of fighting strategy, politics, what did you think of the way she rounded out this . She owned the night obviously with the vote. And the next day she came back and seemed to knock the other side off guard. I think shes been remarkable. And then on friday she sent the letter to the president inviting him to give his state of the Union Address to a joint session perhaps, probably even, while a senate trial will be in session. Which is well played. I mean, as a theatrical move. And, indeed, although im all for this solemn and important process showing that the president is not above the law playing out, the trial i wouldnt call it a sham, but it is we know its a fixed trial. We know the outcome. There is no question about the outcome. Therefore, its a theatrical presentation. Imsimil it simply is. He said that several times last week over and over, i dont feel like ive been impeached because in like a wwe match of which with which hes familiar and with which hes the hall of fame. In a wwe match you know whats going to happen in the end. And indeed he knows whats going to happen in the end in this show trial. In which wwe character do you see him as here . Himself, of course. He played himself in the wwe. Well, that raises a deeper question. Can you play yourself . Well, that is a meta. Question. It is a work shoot where you mix reality and fiction into one spectacle. Well, hes played himself, and i mean that in the brooklyn sense. Great points all around. I have to fit in a break because we have so much in the special. My thanks to maya and kurt. Coming up, as promised, we have a breakdown of how it works, the precedence, the rules and amazing footage i want to show you. We will speak to the countrys leading historian of what this means for the long view. And Thomas Friedman joins us. Thats all ahead on our msnbc special, the impeachment of donald j. Trump. Do you recall, not long ago we would walk on the sidewalk all around the wind blows we would only hold on to let go blow a kiss into the sun we need someone to lean on blow a kiss into the sun we needed somebody to lean on all we need is someone to lean on good morning, mr. Sun. Good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. Im gonna grow big and strong. Yes, you are. Im gonna get this place all clean. Ill give you a hand. And im gonna put lisa on crutches wait, what . Said shes gonna need crutches. She fell pretty hard. You might want to clean that up, girl. Excuse us. When owning a Small Business gets real, progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. And im gonna eh, eh, eh. Donny, no. Oh. Too shabby too much i can rent this . For that price . Absolutely. Its just right book your just right rental at thrifty. Com. Its just right for your worst sore throat pain, try Vicks Vapocool drops. Its not candy, its powerful relief. Ahhh vaporize sore throat pain with Vicks Vapocool drops and try new vapocool spray. Quitting smoking is freaking hard. St, like quitting every monday hard. Quitting feels so big. So, try making it smaller. And youll be surprised at how easily starting small. Can lead to something big. Start stopping with nicorette what does this impeachment of President Trump actually do . What does it require . When Speaker Pelosi formally gavelled in these house votes, it was a constitutional requirement for the senate. Begin a trial of the president , and there is no debate about that requirement. Well, under the senate rules were required to take it up if the house does go down that path, and well follow the senate rules. Trial of donald trump will define him in history and provide a frame work for americans to assess evidence of his conduct heading into this campaign. No other president has ever run for office after impeachment because no other president got themselves impeached this quickly. So this matters, and the battling has already begun over how to run the trial. Senate leaders jousting over these past examples. But there are very few precedence because theres only been, as you have heard by now, two president ial trials in all of history. So right now we turn to one of the most momentum special reports we have done here, what do the rules require when the president is put on trial and how does it go down . Well, the answer differs from most government proceedings. We will talk you through amazing examples and footage. The trial of a president basically has three layers. The first is the constitution, which has ironclad rules for the trial and a high bar for kicking president s out of office. Now, thats set in stone. Totally unchangeable. The second layer are the Current Senate rules originally passed in 1986 that provide how the trial runs. When you hear senators say what the rules require, theyre usually talking about these rules. And then there is the third layer. And thats where the senate just makes up new rules as it goes along, which is different than every other trial in america and different than every other day in congress. So other than those requirements i mentioned in the constitution, the senate can actually change most of the trial rules with a bare majority of just 51 votes. You can think of this as the jazz layer which senators can go full miles davis and improvise throughout the trial as long as they have 50 other senators willing to jam with them. Now more than that in a moment. But now we begin like america, with the constitution, which grants the power to charge, to impeach to the house. So only the congress, the house, may impeach. In bill clintons case, henry hide formally presented the articles. I hearby deliver these articles of impeachment. Thats what it looks like. And the constitution says when the house does that, the senate shall try the case, and it must replace the usual presiding officer, currently Vice President mike sense with the chief justice of the supreme court. So we know what that looks like. During the clinton area, it was william remembinquist. Do you kswear that pertainin to the impeachment of William Jefferson clinton, president of the United States now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws so help you got . Trumps trial will be presided over by john roberts, a conservative who is known for sometimes breaking with republicans on political matters. It limits the president s power. So trump cannot pardon impeachment cases. He cant pardon himself if he were convicted. But thats about it for that constitutional side. The rest of this turns on the side rules, which tee up a public indignity for any impeached president , just like any other defendant facing legal problems, an officer of the law brings the president a formal summons. So while trump saw this news like everyone else, we know from history a summons is still headed to his white house. Tonight as the sergeant in arms arrived at the white house with a summons, formally notifying the impeached president that he is now on trial, mr. Clintons lawyer said the white house is confident president clinton will not be convicted. You saw that. For Andrew Johnson, the summons was actually hand delivered to the white house. These same senate rules lay out how the senate can deal with any problems. They can actually provide frizz time enforced by the sergeant at arms for people who disrupt or talk during the trial. All persons are commanded to keep silent by the senate of the United States in the sitting for the trial of the articles of impeachment exhibited by the house of representatives against William Jefferson clinton. Senators dont get to talk either because this is a trial and the senators are sort of transformed into jurors. That explains it. You dont see jurors stand up and give speeches at trials. So like them, if the senators have a question, they have to submit it reduced to writing, and then the chief justice handles it. So americans will see a judge quoting the senators for any questions or points they want to raise. The senator has provided up to 16 hours during which senators may submit questions in writing. This question is from senators thompson and snow to the house managers. From senator schumer and kerry of nebraska. The impeachment trial is one of the most consequential things the senate does and the senate does give it a makeover. For clinton for carpenters that made new impeachment tables for the trial that could fit up to 15 lawyers sitting in the well of the senate. Right now Trump White House counsel expected to lead the legal team, but a 15 person table could leave plenty of room for anyone else, including tv lawyers if they add any. Now, as these lawyers and house managers battle it out, the rules give the first call to the chief justice. But the senators have the final call. Sometimes the judge can lead and his call will hold. Most of our footage tonight is from the one televised impeachment trial. But take an example from the 1868 trial of president johnson. The chief justice ruled about senators deliberating behind closed doors. 130 laters we found he cited that for ruling on an open trial until senators closed the door to deliberate. And chief justice chase in the Andrew Johnson trial stated in response to an inquiry, there can be no deliberation unless the doors are closed. Senators can follow those leads, and there may be topics where they would rather not weigh in at all. But the senators can also override any evidence call a chief justice makes with the bare majority. And history shows on the big calls the rules give way to that other law i have been telling you about. And like miles davis, they are often miles ahead of the chief justice, which was on display at the clinton trial when they touted their initial bipartisan plan for how to start the trial knowing they could still jam out and change the rules later. We believe that unless we remain bipartisan, the public is not going to conclude we were fair. This is one of the great days in the history of the United States senate. We came together 1000 behind a procedure to handle what will be remembered as the trial of the century. Youre not dreaming. That is a real Mitch Mcconnell touting bipartisan ship. It was striking. But im trying to make sure we all understand. That was just at the start. The brawling began. A democratic elder, senator robert burn, moved to try to cut the trial short after the opening arguments by calling for a vote to dismists the articles one of the senior statesmen of the senate caught everyone by surprise when he announced late this afternoon he would move to have the trial dismissed. Continuing the senate trial, he said in a statement, quote, will only prolong and deepen the divisive, bitter and polarizing effect that this sorry affair has visited upon our nation. That clinton case had gone on far longer than the ukraine probe, years of investigation by the indep pependent prosecutor. Democrats were arguing it was time to end it while republicans pressed to add witnesses to the senate trial. Republican house managers told the senate they have a witness list finally naming names. President clintons friend, white house aid and monica lewinsky. The senate laid down the law today. House prosecutors can persuade the senate to call witnesses, but only a few and only if they can add to the case to convict the president. And in contrast to what todays republicans are saying right now, at the time, those Congressional Republicans backed adding those witnesses to the trial. You never called any witnesses in the house. Why are you insisting on witnesses in the senate . Thats an important distinction. The threshold in the house was whether or not there was enough evidence to submit it to the senate for a trial. We were acting like a grand jury. We didnt feel it was necessary to parade witnesses in. Now having impeached the president , it is over in the senate where the trial this is a trial, not a grand jury proceeding. Not a probable cause hearing. And we have a tremendous burden. The idea of not being able to call witnesses is crucial. How would you like to do this show without guests . What if you sat here and read transcripts . Your ratings would go down. How would you like to do without witnesses . That is mr. Graham. This is also where the rules matter because the constitution requires a senate trial but not of my particular length. The senate can make those decisions as the trial goes. In the clinton case, the senate voted to both continue the trial and add those three witnesses. There were two critical votes today, and the republicans held all the members in line. Votes to dismiss the trial and to subpoena witnesses. Here is how the votes went. On the motion to dismiss, no 56, yes 44. On the motion to subpoena witnesses, the mirror imagine, yes 56, no 44. Republicans won that vote on evidence. They added a new witness interviews and they had lewinsky, jordan, blumenthal. 51 votes can change the rules any time. The trial can start without witnesses and add them later or start with a plan to hear witnesses and vote not to hear them. Senators can get votes on all of this. Thats what senator schumer is talking about when he says that no matter how this kicks off, they can get later votes on specific trump witnesses. I will ask during the impeachment proceeding for a vote on whether mulvaney should testify and whether bolton should testify. Any republican who thinks they can escape having to vote on this, no matter how quickly Mitch Mcconnell tries to truncate the trial doesnt know the rules. Doesnt know the rules. Mcconnell knows them. He was talking about them and how they apply to this very issue of witnesses back in 1999. Under the rule srules, to deh impeachment trials, it would take 51 votes to call a witness, unless twothirds of the senate agreed to do otherwise. Fact check true. If republicans unite around, say, avoiding any witnesses and mcconnell can hold that line, they could do that. But if at any time four senators on the senate side say hey, wait, maybe we should hear from john bolton or rudy giuliani, they can do that in the middle of the trial. Back in 1999, check this out, it was senator Susan Collins championing how more witnesses would serve the search for truth. I need witnesses and further evidence to guide me to the right destination to get to the truth. Do witnesses get to the truth . Well, the senators will have a chance to answer that on the record. While you may hear even tonight some observers covering this and talking about it as if the standoffs are going to be resolved in one moment or one day by Mitch Mcconnell or when the trial starts, what you now know from that rules breakout is thats not really the whole story. When you grasp the rules, you grasp most of them can change any time. In the middle, a vote could add a witness or five or ten. Again, it is whatever the 51 senators decide to jam out on during the trial. And senators may still be making up their minds in realtime. The whole country tends to watch and make up their minds on these things. A trial of a president is so much larger than any other story we ever come here and talk to you about. Thats a dynamic we saw in 1999, a different era with different media and also some familiar faces. You have been extremely tough on the president for his personal indiscretions. This morning you have high praise for him. Is that right . I used to think i was crazy about clinton having a split screen view of the guy. 8 out of 10 americans think hes been a highly successful president. Do you think they scored any points with these tapes today . Call us and join our chat room. Much has changed since then. Our politics, our platforms, our media, but the constitution has not. It still provides that Unshakable Foundation to this process. The house charges. The senate holds the trial out in the open so the public can see no person is above the law, especially not the Person Holding the temporary power to, as the constitution says, take care that the laws be faithfully executed. Still ahead, i will be joined by a special guest on what the impeachment rules could mean for Donald Trumps future. Stay with us. Its tough to quit smoking cold turkey. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. 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Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Do you swear in all things pertaining to the impeachment of William Jefferson clinton, president of the United States now pending you will do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws so help you god . A historical rarity. We are joined by a professor at columbia university, author of many books. Great to have you here as part of our coverage. Thanks for inviting me. What does it mean for history to have this happen. Well, it doesnt happen very often, as you know. So it puts President Trump in a very small category of president s who have been tried before the senate for impeachment. And in a sense, he will always have that attached to his name, his legacy. So its you know, it is a historic moment in our country. These things dont happen very often. What does it tell us that the two impeachments that did occur both felt like procedural aberrations if i may . The johnson case being in theory about a very obscure law, but in practice and reality about racism, civil war, the confederacy. The clinton case also to many over time looking like something that was both about the underlying actions but about something larger, about the right wing obsession with getting him. When white water didnt work, finding something else. In all these cases, including this one, there have been people in congress who wanted to impeach the president long before the actual vote was taken to do so. As you said, Andrew Johnson was impeached basically for just being totally unfit to be president. But thats not a crime, so to speak. Is that part of why trump is being impeached . I think so. Absolutely. And certainly, although clinton the republicans felt that way about clinton even though i think his quote, unquote crimes were pretty minuscule compared to what these others have done, but it seems like impeachment is not necessarily the it is a blunt tru instrument for going after a president , you know, who has lost the support of the house of representatives and who has proven himself unfit for office. But there is no other mechanism in our constitution for its not a parliamentary system. Right. We dont have a no confidence vote. Get rid of the Prime Minister and put another one in. We dont have that system. So the next election in the next fall will in a sense be the final verdict on President Trump. Id like you to take a look at some historics out of senator mcconnell and tell us about something we havent focussed on as much yet. It is a snapshot of the congress. In the last impeachment, as partisan as the house was, the Senate Immediately tried to say, actually we could do this at a higher altitude. Take a look. On this eve of the eve of the start of opening arguments in the senate we have two members with us. What are the chances American Television viewers will get to see some live testimony from some of the larger named witnesses in this case . I think the best way to describe it, brian, would be that the trial will almost certainly be in public, including any witnesses that may be called. And those witnesses will be called individually. And three witnesses were called, and that senator mcconnell at that time tauted bipartisan ship. Today he does not. He is the model of lack of b bipartisanship today. They were heard on videotape. They were not actually present in the senate chamber, and they were not cross examined by anybody. But thats typical of the fact that impeachment is a very strange kind of trial. It is not a normal trial. It has a jury of 100 people, which is unusual. It doesnt require a unanimous verdict as most trials do. And even the chief justice, who is presiding, any of his rulings could be overturned by a majority vote of the senate. In a sense, the jurors are also setting the rules for the trial. So, you know, it is uncharted water. We had the clinton and Andrew Johnson a long time ago. But the rules are kind of its not surprising that the rules are kind of made up as we go along. Yeah. And as you say, that is something the founders did on purpose. They left quite a bit of leeway in what they did not require in the trial. They did require the house sends it over. You have to start. So great to have you. Very nice to talk to you. Appreciate it. Coming up, we talk to tom friedman about the wider case for trumps impeachment. In a world where everything gets a sequel. Its finally time for. Geico sequels classic geico heroes, starring in six new commercials, with jawdropping savings. 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Well, theyre independent arriving at the same one. Look at the New York Times and how they put it. Or take the newspaper that launched the modern tradition of Investigative Journalism in watergate, the Washington Post now endorsing the impeachment of President Trump in this historic full page editorial, noting his obstruction threatens u. S. Democracy. It is a departure from the last impeachment in our history where newspapers often condemned clintons personal conduct but largely opposed the republican push for impeachment as legally unwarranted. Today several newspapers say they shifted against trump with reluctance and only recently as ukraine tipped the scale. Quote, virtually nothing does. Now, there are exceptions. The wall street journal, a conservative editorial page, opposes the impeachment case as, quote, weak. But the daily news says instead of one smoking gun, there is acrid black stuff rising from the white house. The philadelphia inquiry labeling trump a threat to the national security. Or the Orlando Sentinal saying basically only the most cynical partisan could minimize the public evidence against trump. Should Americans Care about this on impeachment eve . We turn to Thomas Friedman making his debut on the beat. Thanks for being here. Ari, great to be here with you. What does it say to americans, and should it matter that so many editors and leaders in journalism are taking this position . I think it really comes down to the fact that there are two simple issues here. One is that if we let a president use congressionally appropriated defense funds for ukraine in order to intimidate the president of that country to take his rival in the next election, we are basically saying it is okay for all future president s to enlist foreign powers. Can you imagine how much money someone could raise from enlista or from iran . We would never again have a legitimate president. Someone who you said well, i like or dont like him or her but theyre legitimate. We would never again have a legitimate president. And that would be a prescription for political chaos. Secondly, if wed let a president in the face of these charges not allow the key witnesses to testify, those closest to the process, giuliani, pompeo, mick mulvaney, if we dont let if we let him get away with not letting them testify and not turning over any documents, we are basically saying we no longer have a serpths separation of powers, we actually have a monarchy. And if we let both of those things happen, the america that you and i knew, grew up and loved, the america that is so widely respected around the globe will be no more, and we will miss it when its gone. Its striking when you lay it out like that. Youve covered many president s. Youve been around the world. Youre a highlevel guy, tom, if you dont mind me saying. And you made the observation that in a weird way donald trump, who styles himself a communications guru, has disarmed from the bully pulpit of the White House Press room. What do you mean by that . Its interesting because i covered the secretary of state and i covered the first year of bill clinton. So ive been in kind of both those press rooms. And i always noticed how much the best spokespeople for those for those officials would use the questions they got from the press as real Early Warning signs, whats out there, what are the issues we need to be aware of and where is this story going. The fact that trump has not allowed a White House Briefing since i dont know, nine months, twelve months, i dont even know how long its been anymore, the fact that his spokesman only goes on fox news, the fact that he only goes on fox news, theyve been in such a bubble that i think, a, they dont realize the danger that they are in. They dont realize how serious this is viewed by the country. They dont realize how trump early on said, hey, i made a mistake, i really went a little bit too far. Had he accepted censure, and that was what the democrats would have much preferred i think, he could have gotten away with censure and not impeachment. In the history books no one really remembers a president who was censured. No one will ever forget a president whos been impeached. Given your view on the entire world, youve mentioned that there are other countries that are increasingly rooting for trump. What do you mean by that . I think both russia and china will be voting trump in 2020. Im not saying theyll necessarily int screeervene. Im sure the russians will. I cant speak for the chinese. Its for two reasons. One is because they know that as long as trump is president of the United States americas in turmoil. The other thing they know is that as long as trump is president of the United States he can never galvanize a Global Coalition against them. He can never galvanize the europeans in a coalition against russia and he can never gav galvanize the asians against china. And for both those countries that is critical. They know as long as trump is there they will never face a Global Coalition against them. The other thing i want to ask you about something weve been following closely here with our experts, and that is the decline of common facts, which is not to say there hasnt always been rich and huge debates in this country. There has been Partisan Press in the founding era. Theres been a lot. So its not to oversimplify. But i want to show you something you know about and our viewers know about, which is look at the decline of nixons approval across parties. If you see on the right here. As watergate evidence came out, it was a net drop that was very similar among dems, indies, and rs. All around 40 or 40plus percent. It made all the difference. Do you think that was because of the way that people consumed information then, and do you ever get back to that world where there are some common facts in america . Yeah, we have dave roberts wrote about this very well in vox recently. We basically have today the ability to create an alternative entire episoere epistemological where you completely live in a different set of facts because if you get most of your Information Online from facebook and thats targeted to reinforce your biases. And if you watch only one particular network and you put all those together. Theres no Walter Cronkite out there who everyone is sharing the same information from. And i think its one of the most frightening things because our democracy, ari, is based on two pillars truth and trust. Okay . If we dont share truth, we cant possibly get the big we cant possibly face the big challenges, climate change, cyber war, education. We cant possibly agree to do anything at scale if we dont share the same truth and if we dont trust each other we cant possibly do anything big and hard together. If you dont have truth and trust, you cannot do anything big and hard. And all the challenges we have coming at us right now are big and hard. On a historic time as we take all this in its really great to get your insights. Tom, i hope you come back and join us again. Tom friedman. Anytime. Thanks, ari. Thank you, sir. And well be back with one more thing on this historic impeachment. Probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. Align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24 7. So, where you go, the pro goes. Go with align, the pros in digestive health. When youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. So you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. 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At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your local xfinity store today. Weve been doing these specials since the ukraine scandal first broke, and this as i mentioned is the first one weve done since the president was actually impeached. Its hard to believe its only been really a couple months and how fast this has gone, but in the trump era sometimes things start slow and happen really quickly. What comes next . As weve emphasized in our reporting tonight, no one can really say. Well keep an eye on the senate trial. And as always, we wish you and your family a very happy holidays and a happy new year. Thanks for watching. You can always find me weeknights on the beat at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. Have a pleasant evening. Tonight, from the Royal Albert Hall in london, its the First Ever Global citizen prize. Hosted by john legend. Well be celebrating some of the worlds most inspiring people. With wellknown faces in music, entertainment, and activism. Featuring exclusive performances and neverbeforeseen collaborations from sting, h. E. R. , stormzy, chris martin, jennifer hudson, georgia smith, and john legend
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