Post and moderator of Washington Week on pbs. Two men who know the president well. Brian, i must start with you because you have this weeks cover story for Time Magazine and it is all about the president s reelection strategy. Bottom line, he plans to focus on his base and has no intention on trying to win over any new voters. Well, he is going to try to amplify his base and amplify exactly the plan and strategy he followed in 2016 and try to find even more people who will sign on to his unique brand of politics and have that sense of outrage and victimhood that the president talks about so much. So his plan is to double down on his strategy from 2016 and amplify it and he has a really incredible, very Massive Campaign strategy for doing digital ad buys and amplifying and exaggerating exactly the things that he did that captured the news cycle so effectively in 2016. Bob, is the trump voter bigger than we realized . Yes, the president s rhetoric and what he says and does at those rallies speak specifically to his core base. But since being elected, the Corporate Tax cuts, what weve seen in the markets, has he added on the Business Class to Trump Supporters . He has added business minded republicans into his coalition. But that original core trump voter who comes out of the reagan democrat mold from the 1980s, theyre susceptible to being wood by these democratic president ial candidates especially on the issues of trade and the economy. If the economy slows down and the trade wars dont seem to pan out to the voters in Industrial Areas around the country many democratic strategists im talking to say they can be won back because the Democratic Party traditionally has always had more populace positions on trade. Brian, if the economy holds or if you see the fed cut rates and the economy at least trudges along, is the president in a position to keep many voters, even if theyre not thriving, the idea on the other side, lets tear up the script, create something completely new, is too foreign and people dont want to break the system. What is so interesting is you look at past incumbent president s that have run reelection campaigns in a similar position where they had a good economy. They would focus on the economy and say, look. If you like how things are going then vote for me. Give me another four years in office. Trump is actually not doing that. He talks about the economy but it is not the focus of his campaign and not the focus of how the campaign is being engineered to amplify his message. Is that because the people who the Trump Administration has served from an Economic Perspective arent his base . He serves his base on the cultural front with his build the wall, with his antiimmigrant stance, but as far as the economy, hes hooked up the rich. That is a tough thing to talk about on the campaign trail. The campaigns internal polling shows a disconnect. Even people who feel like theyre benefiting from the current economy dont give the president credit for that. They feel like they have a gap theyre wanting to close on that. But the fact is the president is who he is. He loves to dominate the news cycle. He goes out as we saw in his orlando rally speech and uses divisive wedge issues to mobilize his base and excite the crowd. And that runs counter to a traditional incumbent reelection strategy of trying to pivot to the middle and reach out to a broader base of voters. That is not what this president is going to do. And it is historically unprecedented and hasnt been tried. I think it is going to speak to whether our politics have become so tribal, trump is betting republicans are going to go and vote for him no matter what. And that is what is going to be tested. Oh, brian, youre newly on the show. If you say unprecedented and you just said it twice you owe me 2. Youre up to 4. Bob, in 2015 and 2016 President Trump was all about draining the swamp. In his words. He tapped into this frustration, the American People felt over washington not working for them. Can he still go with that line since hell have been the president sitting in office for four years . He is the incumbent and incumbents always have to face the fact that reelection campaigns are a referendum on their record. President trump when you talk to his top advisers, he believes that his overwhelming personality, his tweets, his ability to dominate the news cycle, in many respects distracts from some of the scandals and controversies from his administration, including cabinet members, former cabinet members like scott pruitt at epa and so the idea of the swamp he just continues to rally as he did in florida this week that he is going to drain it. But the details of that story are of course more complicated because his administration has had many problems over the past two and a half years. Indeed they have. Brian, i want to play part of what the president said about his enemies last night on fox. The fact is they were spying on my campaign, using agencies to intelligence agencies to do it, going after others. Were trying to find out whether they actually listened and that would be the ultimate. If they spied on my campaign and they may have, it will be one of the great revelations in history of this country. Brian, does it work for the president to paint himself as a victim of his political enemies as opposed to giving people vision of how he is going to help them live better lives . A lot of people voted for him for the latter. This is a personal obsession of the president. He continues to talk about the russian investigation, about the 2016 campaign and the russia investigation. Even inside his campaign looking at polling and what moves voters they dont see the Mueller Investigation or these attacks against democrats and the relitigation of 2016 moving voters. It is something that still weighs heavily on the president s mind. He talks about it because he fundamentally sees it as a threat to his legitimacy as a president. When we sat down in the oval office, we spent an hour with him. He originally was going to budget about 20 minutes and we started talking and he ordered a diet coke and settled in. We started challenging him on the Mueller Investigation and he continued to push back hard and say its a witch hunt and spent a lot of time on that. Youll see him spend a lot of time on that. It is not a political calculation but really a personal obsession, something still heavily on his mind. I mean, it is fascinating to see how the campaign is thinking about this. They do sell decals and bumper stickers on their website about the witch hunt and all of that but really it is not messaging. Theyre doing that because they want to draw voters to their website to give information to build up their list. It is a list building exercise and theyre coming up with interesting, innovative ways to try to bring in more people they think will mobilize for trump. Maybe there are more voters out there interested in coming out for trump and are still on the sidelines. And we know the president s Digital Campaign was strong last time. Lets go from political calculations to miscalculations. Bob, you know hope hicks well. Were democrats naive to think that she was going to play ball yesterday . They seemed to be surprised that she wasnt going to answer questions. But hope hicks, even though she is not currently in the white house, remains a very close ally of this administration and, specifically, the trump family. She is working at the Fox Corporation right now, which is part of the Murdoch Family empire. In the business world. And she remains friendly with many people inside of this white house. House democrats were aware that if they asked any questions about her time in the white house that she wouldnt exactly assert executive privilege but she would cite the letter from the white House Counsel that leaned in that direction. They were challenged because they wanted to find out more about the campaign, about possible russian interference, and different interactions, but because it was private testimony that was later released publicly, they didnt have the whole pressure of a Public Theater in that kind of moment to really try to push ms. Hicks to reveal more about what happened in the campaign. Again, democrats remain frustrated. Theyre trying to bring up witnesses to tell a story to the American People about what happened in 2016 but at every turn this white house and this white House Counsels office is trying to stop any kind of public unraveling of what we already know. Brian, i want to ask you about one other thing as we head into next week when the president said the i. C. E. Raids are going to begin going after undocumented immigrants. The president spoke about this with our own jose diaz balart. Listen. Going back to the latino vote, granted a percentage definitely supports you but there are some who fear your rhetoric, who fear whats been going on at the border, who fear that you have said you will be deporting millions of people. They want me to do it. Theyre here illegally. Mr. President , they do not. They do. You ready . They dont want to lose their jobs. They want to keep their salaries and wages up and they dont want crime. When people come through you have ms13 coming through. That is not the majority, mr. President. But its a lot of people. It may be some. If it was one in a hundred it is too many. The mothers coming with their children arent ms13s. I agree. But if its one in a hundred its too many. Brian, the president believes what he believes but inside the white house, is there any concern that this plan of the president s could backfire on him, like we saw with the zero tolerance policy . Well, actually right now the white house staff recognize they have to follow the lead of the president and there is no controlling him. One told me he blows the hole and we have to all run into the breach. That is what is happening especially on the immigration moments. He threatened to close the border with mexico in late march then threatened to up the tariffs against mexico. Now he is hitting the hot button issue on the border again by threatening to launch raids that could target millions of people in the United States. There is a calculus to this for the president. He knows that it gives him a sense, gives him some legitimacy with his hard core supporters. Also the campaign capitalizes on this. So when the president generates a news cycle like the one were in now about these potential raids that he is talking about, there are algorithms the dpan is using on facebook and Google Search that the campaign is using that put more solicitations and ads in front of possible voters for trump and they collect more data. So there is a cycle to this thats benefiting trump in his campaign. Of course, it also is unnerving and there could be a longterm cost when it comes to latino voters in the country. I think also the campaign recognizes latino voters will vote as one bloc so there are different cross sections. They are looking to target hispanics in florida one way. Theyve seen some internal data that shows maybe they could get hispanics in nevada or new mexico on trade. Brian, fascinating. I highly recommend you reading his cover piece in Time Magazine this week. Brian bennett, robert costa, thank you both so much. Up next joe biden defends his past working with segregationists in congress. And later, the last bank that would lend money to trump now under investigation. [ alarm beeping ] wake up theres a lot that needs to get done today. Small things. Big things. Too hard to do alone things. Day after day, you need to get it all done. And here to listen and help you through it all is bank of america. With the expertise and knowhow you need to reach that blissful state of doneness. So lets get after it. Everything is all right what would you like the power to do . ® all right. Or trips to mars. 4. 95. Delivery drones or the latest phones. 4. 95. No matter what you trade, at fidelity its just 4. 95 per online u. S. Equity trade. rates vehicles for safety, andr hsome reach a level of top safety pick. But only a select few of the very safest vehicles are awarded a top safety pick plus. The highest level of safety possible. How many 2019 top safety pick pluswinning vehicles does your brand have . One. Two. How about eight . Subaru has more 2019 top safety pick plus awards than honda and toyota brands combined. Theres safe, and then theres subaru safe. Xfinity mobile is a designed to save you money. Whether you use your phone to get fit or to find the perfect gift, youll use less data with a network that automatically connects to millions of wifi hotspots and the best lte everywhere else. So you save hundreds of dollars a year on your wireless bill. Xfinity mobile has the best network. Best devices. Best value. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Click, call or visit a store today. Get ready. It is almost show time. Six days until candidates take the debate stage but the gloves are already coming off. The main target . Frontrunner joe biden. The former Vice President under fire after citing the work he did with segregationist senators as an example of the civility that used to exist in congress. Speaking at a fundraiser in new york city tuesday night, biden told the crowd this. I was in a caucus with james o. Eastland. He never called me boy. He always sald me son. Herman talmadge one of the meanest guys i ever knew. Well guess what . At least there was some civility. We got things done. We didnt agree on much of anything but we got things done. But today, you look at the other side and youre the enemy. Not the opposition, the enemy. We dont talk to each other anymore. Many 2020 contenders including Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris quickly responded to bidens comments suggesting that he was celebrating segregationists. Senator cory booker went one step further asking joe biden to apologize. But it does not seem like an apology is coming any time soon. Last night while speaking to reporters before a Campaign Event in maryland, biden doubled down on his comments. Saying that you have issues talking about race are you going to apologize . For what . Cory booker called for it. Cory should apologize. He knows better. There is not a racist bone in my body. Ive been involved in civil rights my whole career. Period. Period. Period. That answer did not satisfy senator cory booker. What matters to me is that a guy running to be the head of our party, which is a significantly diverse and wonderous party, doesnt understand or cant even acknowledge that he made a mistake. Whether the intention was there or not he knows better. And at a time that donald trump never apologizes for anything and starts to create that kind of i think toxic sentiment that you never apologize, never apologize, never apologize, i know joe biden. Hes better than this. Here to weigh in Michael Steele former Senior Adviser to jeb bush, Jason Johnson politics editor and sharp dresser at the root. Com and an msnbc contributor. And the one and only Donny Deutsch branding expert and the host of the must see show saturday night politics here on msnbc. Jason, i turn to you first. Joe biden was not applauding or complimenting the segregationists. The point he was trying to make was, these are the deplorables of the deplorables but for the country because thats what were here to do i found a way to even work with them. Right. So heres the problem. Its not about what you mean. Its about what people hear. Trent lott learned this lesson 14 years ago. I dont think trent lott was praising segregationists. He was praising another senator and saying what a great guy he was in an interpersonal way and george bush kicked him out of office. Joe biden needs to realize the political environment he is in and be more responsible. Here is the other thing. This inability to say im sorry this inability to say, all right. This is what i meant one way or another, that is a problem. And the core of this when he is saying civility, when he is saying i can work with these people, an underlying message of joe bidens campaign has always been im a white guy and im able to work with these people and that is not going to work with Mitch Mcconnell. It is very interesting when you have a black guy and a white guy talking. And it happens. We are hearing, the reality is i hear it as a white guy you hear it as a black guy. So i hear that and i have to show a sensitivity the same way something is being talked about in the holocaust, im a jew. Somebody else wont hear it. What i heard was basically the way steph set it up. There was no celebration. He called them mean. It was a strictly, look. Those are bad guys. I got to work with bad guys to make good things happen. That is what this white guys ears heard. So once again, i cant say to you, no. You cant be offended by it. Or you cant think its wrong. I did not see a scenario there as i was listening to it. I was like, say today there is a wall hook and quadruple down on i. C. E. And to me that is todays definition of segregation. Would i not sit down with him . No. Id try to beat him or her at her game and fix the problem. Here is the thing. As a black guy who lives in this country i hear white people hear, too, because i have to. I understand what youre saying and i dont disagree. Im talking about from a strategic standpoint. I know what joe biden meant but he has to recognize he has 20 people gunning for him and he keeps giving them ammunition to shoot him down whenever he says Something Like this. The difference between politicians. I think the average american black, white, green, purple, can hear that and understand what he is saying. The average american is not paying any attention. A good point. The average american hears joe biden made another gaff about race and refuses to say he is sorry. That is how this is trickling down six days before a deba