Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson 201910

Our nbc news has the latest from both ends of pennsylvania avenue. We also have an analysis with someone who worked closely about the top Senate Republican. Were joined by aaron blake, senior political reporter for the washington post. Hans, let me start with you. The president seems to be under fire from multiple front this morning. So does his acting chief of staff. Reporter acting chief of staff obviously had a difficult weekend where he in his own words could have been a little bit more clear. I just spoke to one official who said that Mick Mulvaneys job as acting is safe, but as safe as anyones in the white house, because theres always the question, especially when you have acting preceding your title, on just how secure you actually are. Now, the big reversal, was of course the president late saturday night talking about changing that decision to host the g7 at doral. This morning hes on defense. Hes explaining his decision. Here is a quick tweet from him. Doral in miami would have been the best place to hold the g7 but too much heat from the donothing radical left and their partner the fake news media. We also heard from the president s son basically along the lines of saying no good deed goes unpunish. The official line from the Trump Organization and the president is they would have saved the country money. Less is being said on how doral isnt doing that well and isnt that profitable. Well see to what extent the white house tries to reconcile all the competing story lines. If the president decides to talk at the meeting today, which he tends to, its going to be a fun one. Youre talking about the Cabinet Meeting that is set for just about 90 minutes from now. Weve seen these things go down in the past. Everybody goes around the table, talks about the president. The president then speaks. One of the things im watching for, we dont see the defense secretary there because he is traveling overseas and he is making some news on syria this morning. Frankly, hans, feels like another walkback or back pedal from the Trump Administration here. Reporter thats really been the case with syria since the december announcement that the president was going to pull all 2,000 out. So youve seen this back and forth, almost this public negotiation between the president and his pentagon on how many troops are ultimately going to stay. It seemed as though 1,000 was a number that was acceptable, until the president had that phone call with erdogan. Then they initially said they would be withdrawing and just keep a few at a garrison in a special Operations Base right along the border in iraq. The interest thing here is where theyre going to be located and theyre likely to be located, if its in conjunction with the oil fields, near the middle of the valley, but in the center of the country, at least the center of that part of the country where theyre at. So they would be staying there and working with kurdish partners potentially and they would be there to protect the oil, which doesnt seem to be one of the articulated natural interests that the president has up to this point talked about for having u. S. Troops deployed there. So geoff bennett, part of the story line here when you look at this retreat, i think you could fairly call it from the president and his administration on some of these issues, part of it is because of republican pushback, not from the house necessarily but over on the senate side. All of it with republicans who might be getting a little tired of having to defend the president in the midst of this impeachment inquiry and that inquiry is heating up against this week. Reporter youre right about that. In the tweet that hans read from President Trump before he blames democrats for forcing his reversal on the doral decision, thats not entirely the case. Our reporting is its republicans who made clear to him that they did not like having to be in this untenable position of having to defend what would have been blatant selfdealing. So the New York Times first reported that President Trump called into a meeting over the weekend where acting white house chief of staff Mick Mulvaney had convened a number of moderate house republicans. And that is when President Trump got ana ear full from these members urging him to reverse course. So we are now seeing on these two decisions, syria and on the g7, where President Trump is getting an unusual backlash, that is actually catching his attention. So heres a sampling of some republicans on these two points. Taxpayer funded contract that the president is awarding it to his own property. Is that acceptable for a sitting president . Im not happy with it. You dont hold up foreign aid that we had previously appropriated for a political initiative. What we have done in the kurds will stand as a blood stain in the annals of american history. When america leaves, we create a vacuum. So these are republicans for the most part who stayed silent after charlottesville and helsinki and the migrant family separations. But youre seeing on these two issues he appears to be trusting republican patience and it comes at a time when President Trump cant afford any defections as the impeachment inquiry moves forward. No cracks in the wall is just about what he can afford. Aaron, im so thrilled youre with us. Youre writing about exactly this. The president reversed course on just one of these topics, the g7, after learning impeachment weary republicans were tired of defending him. Talk about that. Yeah, so every time Something Like this happens i think back to 2011. The white house, the Obama White House put forward this big budget deal that a lot of people in congress werent terribly happy with. It was a bipartisan effort, and congressman cleaver came forward and called it a sugar coated satan sandwich. Since the impeachment inquiry has been launched here, the President Trump has introduced two satan sandwiches to this republican caucus. One is the syria decision, which they are overwhelmingly uncomfortable with. Many of them are talking about this in almost terms of a slaughter of isis being rekindled in the reej p. And then of course you have the g7 at doral, which everybody recognizes as a bad idea. We didnt have republicans coming out and forcefully denouncing it. But there is a line between what they are willing to defend and not. And the fact that youre throwing this on their lapse in the middle of this whole thing is not going to force them to desert the president but its going to make their jobs more difficult. And Mick Mulvaney pretty much acknowledged that in his sunday interview. As you know, my day job is covering the white house and i dont think im breaking any confidences to say we often hear from sources about various members of the administration in the white house being on thin ice at various times and i think that hans nichols summed it best earlier, he said everybody is safe now for today, for the moment. Whats your sense of how long mulvaney is able to hold out here . Even the president has talked about how he likes to have people with acting titles because it maybe keeps them on their toes a little bit more. I dont know if he said it in so many words. But Mick Mulvaney has been one of the longest serving acting people in this white house. Hes never been a trump guy, per se. He was very critical of the president back in 2016. I think you find that when the president is dealing with top aides who may be very critical of him, there is a little bit of a suspicion there. Maybe he doesnt think that hes on board. And of course sending him out to defend those two decisions on thursday, if youre Mick Mulvaney, youre probably not terribly happy about having to do that and then having both of those decisions pulled back. Thanks for being on is us. And i think to thank hans and geoff as well. Weir lucky to have antonio with us. You worked closely with Mitch Mcconnell as staff director of the republican communication center. We were like lets get her on today. You were just on the hill with all the republicans. What are you seeing now thats different than when you departed senator mcconnells office a few months ago . I think we should put National Security and Foreign Policy in a very different sort of bucket from everything else. Syria in a different bucket than like the g7. Correct. And i think you have to remember when barack obama became president , republicans fought tooth and nail against barack obama pulling troops out of iraq. So they have a lot of memory here, they have a lot of concern about the middle east and they think that if the United States pulls back there are going to be a lot of problems. And thats exactly what were seeing here. Its also a little disconcerting for the republicans to hear that erdogan, the head of turkey, just in one phone call can just ultimately unilaterally change Foreign Policy. So thats the National Security bucket. Talk about the sugar coated satan sandwich with the g7 and quid pro quo and ukraine. Lets just start with doral. I sometimes think the president doesnt understand what it is that hes doing. He thinks, oh, this would be great. Ive got this great resort down in florida, everyone should come. I just sometimes dont think he perceives that this might be bad. Can i ask you this . Because i heard what you could call the ignorance defense a lot early on in the administration when i was transitioning. Hes been president for almost three years now. I totally agree with you and thats why youre supposed to have good staff to tell you thats not a good idea. How is Mick Mulvaney received currently on capitol hill based on the conversations youve had with your sources . I think in some ways hes well regarded. He is a house conservative so he is trusted by them. He has things that they are executing on. There are some folks in the senate, more of the Senate Republican Appropriations Committee types who dont necessarily trust him because they view him as trying to sort of undercut a lot of bipartisan spending bills and deals. So hes got support in that, you know, he is the mouthpiece of the president of the United States, he is the chief of staff. When he does things, though, like what he did on sunday with Chris Wallace over on fox news, i wonder if that changes things . Let me play for you a little bit of that back and forth. Sure. There is not a quid pro quo. You were asked by Jonathan Carl and you described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. Again, reporters will use their language all the time. My language never said quid pro quo. I never said there was a quid pro quo because there isnt. I mean, the fact that they had to put a clarification statement out there seems to demonstrate that mr. Mulvaney really stepped in it. So i dont even know what were supposed to believe here, there wasnt or wasnt. Its as clear as mud. But at the end of the day the chief of staff really did sort of step in it last week when he started talking about this. Taking all of this as a hole, do you believe that, for example, somebody you know well, senator mcconnell, needs to be more vocal and sort of step up and speak more vocally about this, or is he going to continue his strategy of sitting back and having his private counsel . Senator mcconnell is a person who speaks when he wants to speak. There are a lot of conversations he does not broadcast to the world. But he tries very hard to have constructive conversations with the president and the white house. Reportedly hes still talking to him all the time. He does, indeed. His strategy has always been to try and steer and direct and when he decided to do the op ed about syria, i think he was speaking pretty loudly. He is not a shouting kind of a guy. I think back channelling is what he continues to try to do to help the president understand that some of the actions and policies may not exactly be in the best interest of say the country. And i think hes pretty loud and clear on syria. I think theres a lot of fraj dee that has gotten missed. This is a country that is trying to pull out of the sphere of russia. It has a lot of problems. It has corruption and a very weak economy. And right now this poor country is being dragged into a political on the United States and all it is trying to do is get russia out of its east, reinsert itself as an independent country and its just a tragedy. Were going to be talking more about the impeachment factor and all the impeachment proceedings happening on capitol hill later in the show. Great to have you on the show. Thanks, hallie. There may be a reversal when it comes to the president s plan to remove troops out of syria. You heard the defense secretary talk about it this morning. Mark esper is in the middle east. Thats why hes not going to be at the Cabinet Meeting in just a bit. Hes talking about a plan that may keep a few hundred troops in the country. Our forces will remain in the towns that are located near the oil fields. The purpose of the forces, a purpose of the forces, working with the sdf is to deny access to the oil fields by isis and others who may benefit from revenues that could be earned. Nbcs chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel is live for us. Richard, bring us up to speed on the developments over the last 24 hours. Where do you see this going from here . Reporter so let me just start with those comments from the defense secretary. Kurdish people here in Northern Syria are hearing those comments and theyre not just offended by them, they think that the United States has chosen oil over the existence of the Kurdish People. 2 Million People here in Northern Syria who are being driven from their homes, who are being killed by the turks and their turkish malitias. There is a ceasefire underway right now, but if you ask them, they will say this is not a ceasefire, this is simply a pause that the u. S. Pushed turkey to accept, or the other way around, that turkey allowed itself to accept to get the kurds out of their homes while they are not being shot at. But this ceasefire is supposed to end tomorrow, not too long from now. So just about 24 hours from now. At which stage it is very likely that the turks will once again be shooting at the kurds as they pull back from their homes. The kurds say what is happening is crystal clear. Turkey wants them off of this land, it wants to ethnically cleanse them from Northern Syria and they want to do that while theyre not being shot at now or when they are once again shot at in just over 24 hours from now. And today we saw i think some of the most powerful pictures that will go down in history. You had u. S. Troops leaving this country and Kurdish People going out into the streets, holding up signs in english saying please dont leave us, please dont allow us to be slaughtered. One sign in english said to the u. S. Troops, tell your children that we, our children, the kurdish children are being killed and that you, the american troops, did not stop it. It is an incredibly difficult situation for u. S. Troops to be in because these are the very people, these kurds who are now being forced off their land who fought with these same american troops who are driving by those signs. It is absolutely gripping. Richard engel live for us in Northern Syria. Thank you for all of your reporting. We appreciate it. Weve also got breaking news back here in washington from the Supreme Court over the controversial move known as gerrymandering Pete Williams is with us now. Whats going on . Well, the Supreme Court today struck down a decision by a threejudge panel in april that had declared new maps for Michigan State legislature and congressional districts as partisan gerrymandering. This was in response to a lawsuit filed against this republican plan that the challenger said made it too hard for democrats to elect the people they wanted and made it too easy for republicans to perpetuate their control of the legislature and michigans representation in congress. But today the Supreme Court wiped that ruling out and i must say, this is really no great surprise, because last term the Supreme Court said that these partisan gerrymander challenges like this are in essence at their core political questions, not legal ones. Its really beyond the expertise of the courts to decide. And that was really a death nail for any of the partisan gerrymandering cases that were pending. So the Supreme Court had put this Lower Court Ruling from the threejudge panel on hold. That was certainly a sign that the ruling by that panel on partisan gerrymandering was on life support. And today the Supreme Court, i guess, to continue this unfortunate metaphor, pulled the plug. And so this partisan gerrymandering decision from below is wiped off the books. Now, where does this whole issue of partisan gerrymandering stand . Its a pretty clear signal from the Senate Republican<\/a>. Were joined by aaron blake, senior political reporter for the washington post. Hans, let me start with you. The president seems to be under fire from multiple front this morning. So does his acting chief of staff. Reporter acting chief of staff obviously had a difficult weekend where he in his own words could have been a little bit more clear. I just spoke to one official who said that Mick Mulvaneys<\/a> job as acting is safe, but as safe as anyones in the white house, because theres always the question, especially when you have acting preceding your title, on just how secure you actually are. Now, the big reversal, was of course the president late saturday night talking about changing that decision to host the g7 at doral. This morning hes on defense. Hes explaining his decision. Here is a quick tweet from him. Doral in miami would have been the best place to hold the g7 but too much heat from the donothing radical left and their partner the fake news media. We also heard from the president s son basically along the lines of saying no good deed goes unpunish. The official line from the Trump Organization<\/a> and the president is they would have saved the country money. Less is being said on how doral isnt doing that well and isnt that profitable. Well see to what extent the white house tries to reconcile all the competing story lines. If the president decides to talk at the meeting today, which he tends to, its going to be a fun one. Youre talking about the Cabinet Meeting<\/a> that is set for just about 90 minutes from now. Weve seen these things go down in the past. Everybody goes around the table, talks about the president. The president then speaks. One of the things im watching for, we dont see the defense secretary there because he is traveling overseas and he is making some news on syria this morning. Frankly, hans, feels like another walkback or back pedal from the Trump Administration<\/a> here. Reporter thats really been the case with syria since the december announcement that the president was going to pull all 2,000 out. So youve seen this back and forth, almost this public negotiation between the president and his pentagon on how many troops are ultimately going to stay. It seemed as though 1,000 was a number that was acceptable, until the president had that phone call with erdogan. Then they initially said they would be withdrawing and just keep a few at a garrison in a special Operations Base<\/a> right along the border in iraq. The interest thing here is where theyre going to be located and theyre likely to be located, if its in conjunction with the oil fields, near the middle of the valley, but in the center of the country, at least the center of that part of the country where theyre at. So they would be staying there and working with kurdish partners potentially and they would be there to protect the oil, which doesnt seem to be one of the articulated natural interests that the president has up to this point talked about for having u. S. Troops deployed there. So geoff bennett, part of the story line here when you look at this retreat, i think you could fairly call it from the president and his administration on some of these issues, part of it is because of republican pushback, not from the house necessarily but over on the senate side. All of it with republicans who might be getting a little tired of having to defend the president in the midst of this impeachment inquiry and that inquiry is heating up against this week. Reporter youre right about that. In the tweet that hans read from President Trump<\/a> before he blames democrats for forcing his reversal on the doral decision, thats not entirely the case. Our reporting is its republicans who made clear to him that they did not like having to be in this untenable position of having to defend what would have been blatant selfdealing. So the New York Times<\/a> first reported that President Trump<\/a> called into a meeting over the weekend where acting white house chief of staff Mick Mulvaney<\/a> had convened a number of moderate house republicans. And that is when President Trump<\/a> got ana ear full from these members urging him to reverse course. So we are now seeing on these two decisions, syria and on the g7, where President Trump<\/a> is getting an unusual backlash, that is actually catching his attention. So heres a sampling of some republicans on these two points. Taxpayer funded contract that the president is awarding it to his own property. Is that acceptable for a sitting president . Im not happy with it. You dont hold up foreign aid that we had previously appropriated for a political initiative. What we have done in the kurds will stand as a blood stain in the annals of american history. When america leaves, we create a vacuum. So these are republicans for the most part who stayed silent after charlottesville and helsinki and the migrant family separations. But youre seeing on these two issues he appears to be trusting republican patience and it comes at a time when President Trump<\/a> cant afford any defections as the impeachment inquiry moves forward. No cracks in the wall is just about what he can afford. Aaron, im so thrilled youre with us. Youre writing about exactly this. The president reversed course on just one of these topics, the g7, after learning impeachment weary republicans were tired of defending him. Talk about that. Yeah, so every time Something Like<\/a> this happens i think back to 2011. The white house, the Obama White House<\/a> put forward this big budget deal that a lot of people in congress werent terribly happy with. It was a bipartisan effort, and congressman cleaver came forward and called it a sugar coated satan sandwich. Since the impeachment inquiry has been launched here, the President Trump<\/a> has introduced two satan sandwiches to this republican caucus. One is the syria decision, which they are overwhelmingly uncomfortable with. Many of them are talking about this in almost terms of a slaughter of isis being rekindled in the reej p. And then of course you have the g7 at doral, which everybody recognizes as a bad idea. We didnt have republicans coming out and forcefully denouncing it. But there is a line between what they are willing to defend and not. And the fact that youre throwing this on their lapse in the middle of this whole thing is not going to force them to desert the president but its going to make their jobs more difficult. And Mick Mulvaney<\/a> pretty much acknowledged that in his sunday interview. As you know, my day job is covering the white house and i dont think im breaking any confidences to say we often hear from sources about various members of the administration in the white house being on thin ice at various times and i think that hans nichols summed it best earlier, he said everybody is safe now for today, for the moment. Whats your sense of how long mulvaney is able to hold out here . Even the president has talked about how he likes to have people with acting titles because it maybe keeps them on their toes a little bit more. I dont know if he said it in so many words. But Mick Mulvaney<\/a> has been one of the longest serving acting people in this white house. Hes never been a trump guy, per se. He was very critical of the president back in 2016. I think you find that when the president is dealing with top aides who may be very critical of him, there is a little bit of a suspicion there. Maybe he doesnt think that hes on board. And of course sending him out to defend those two decisions on thursday, if youre Mick Mulvaney<\/a>, youre probably not terribly happy about having to do that and then having both of those decisions pulled back. Thanks for being on is us. And i think to thank hans and geoff as well. Weir lucky to have antonio with us. You worked closely with Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> as staff director of the republican communication center. We were like lets get her on today. You were just on the hill with all the republicans. What are you seeing now thats different than when you departed senator mcconnells office a few months ago . I think we should put National Security<\/a> and Foreign Policy<\/a> in a very different sort of bucket from everything else. Syria in a different bucket than like the g7. Correct. And i think you have to remember when barack obama became president , republicans fought tooth and nail against barack obama pulling troops out of iraq. So they have a lot of memory here, they have a lot of concern about the middle east and they think that if the United States<\/a> pulls back there are going to be a lot of problems. And thats exactly what were seeing here. Its also a little disconcerting for the republicans to hear that erdogan, the head of turkey, just in one phone call can just ultimately unilaterally change Foreign Policy<\/a>. So thats the National Security<\/a> bucket. Talk about the sugar coated satan sandwich with the g7 and quid pro quo and ukraine. Lets just start with doral. I sometimes think the president doesnt understand what it is that hes doing. He thinks, oh, this would be great. Ive got this great resort down in florida, everyone should come. I just sometimes dont think he perceives that this might be bad. Can i ask you this . Because i heard what you could call the ignorance defense a lot early on in the administration when i was transitioning. Hes been president for almost three years now. I totally agree with you and thats why youre supposed to have good staff to tell you thats not a good idea. How is Mick Mulvaney<\/a> received currently on capitol hill based on the conversations youve had with your sources . I think in some ways hes well regarded. He is a house conservative so he is trusted by them. He has things that they are executing on. There are some folks in the senate, more of the Senate Republican<\/a> Appropriations Committee<\/a> types who dont necessarily trust him because they view him as trying to sort of undercut a lot of bipartisan spending bills and deals. So hes got support in that, you know, he is the mouthpiece of the president of the United States<\/a>, he is the chief of staff. When he does things, though, like what he did on sunday with Chris Wallace<\/a> over on fox news, i wonder if that changes things . Let me play for you a little bit of that back and forth. Sure. There is not a quid pro quo. You were asked by Jonathan Carl<\/a> and you described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. Again, reporters will use their language all the time. My language never said quid pro quo. I never said there was a quid pro quo because there isnt. I mean, the fact that they had to put a clarification statement out there seems to demonstrate that mr. Mulvaney really stepped in it. So i dont even know what were supposed to believe here, there wasnt or wasnt. Its as clear as mud. But at the end of the day the chief of staff really did sort of step in it last week when he started talking about this. Taking all of this as a hole, do you believe that, for example, somebody you know well, senator mcconnell, needs to be more vocal and sort of step up and speak more vocally about this, or is he going to continue his strategy of sitting back and having his private counsel . Senator mcconnell is a person who speaks when he wants to speak. There are a lot of conversations he does not broadcast to the world. But he tries very hard to have constructive conversations with the president and the white house. Reportedly hes still talking to him all the time. He does, indeed. His strategy has always been to try and steer and direct and when he decided to do the op ed about syria, i think he was speaking pretty loudly. He is not a shouting kind of a guy. I think back channelling is what he continues to try to do to help the president understand that some of the actions and policies may not exactly be in the best interest of say the country. And i think hes pretty loud and clear on syria. I think theres a lot of fraj dee that has gotten missed. This is a country that is trying to pull out of the sphere of russia. It has a lot of problems. It has corruption and a very weak economy. And right now this poor country is being dragged into a political on the United States<\/a> and all it is trying to do is get russia out of its east, reinsert itself as an independent country and its just a tragedy. Were going to be talking more about the impeachment factor and all the impeachment proceedings happening on capitol hill later in the show. Great to have you on the show. Thanks, hallie. There may be a reversal when it comes to the president s plan to remove troops out of syria. You heard the defense secretary talk about it this morning. Mark esper is in the middle east. Thats why hes not going to be at the Cabinet Meeting<\/a> in just a bit. Hes talking about a plan that may keep a few hundred troops in the country. Our forces will remain in the towns that are located near the oil fields. The purpose of the forces, a purpose of the forces, working with the sdf is to deny access to the oil fields by isis and others who may benefit from revenues that could be earned. Nbcs chief Foreign Correspondent<\/a> Richard Engel<\/a> is live for us. Richard, bring us up to speed on the developments over the last 24 hours. Where do you see this going from here . Reporter so let me just start with those comments from the defense secretary. Kurdish people here in Northern Syria<\/a> are hearing those comments and theyre not just offended by them, they think that the United States<\/a> has chosen oil over the existence of the Kurdish People<\/a>. 2 Million People<\/a> here in Northern Syria<\/a> who are being driven from their homes, who are being killed by the turks and their turkish malitias. There is a ceasefire underway right now, but if you ask them, they will say this is not a ceasefire, this is simply a pause that the u. S. Pushed turkey to accept, or the other way around, that turkey allowed itself to accept to get the kurds out of their homes while they are not being shot at. But this ceasefire is supposed to end tomorrow, not too long from now. So just about 24 hours from now. At which stage it is very likely that the turks will once again be shooting at the kurds as they pull back from their homes. The kurds say what is happening is crystal clear. Turkey wants them off of this land, it wants to ethnically cleanse them from Northern Syria<\/a> and they want to do that while theyre not being shot at now or when they are once again shot at in just over 24 hours from now. And today we saw i think some of the most powerful pictures that will go down in history. You had u. S. Troops leaving this country and Kurdish People<\/a> going out into the streets, holding up signs in english saying please dont leave us, please dont allow us to be slaughtered. One sign in english said to the u. S. Troops, tell your children that we, our children, the kurdish children are being killed and that you, the american troops, did not stop it. It is an incredibly difficult situation for u. S. Troops to be in because these are the very people, these kurds who are now being forced off their land who fought with these same american troops who are driving by those signs. It is absolutely gripping. Richard engel live for us in Northern Syria<\/a>. Thank you for all of your reporting. We appreciate it. Weve also got breaking news back here in washington from the Supreme Court<\/a> over the controversial move known as gerrymandering Pete Williams<\/a> is with us now. Whats going on . Well, the Supreme Court<\/a> today struck down a decision by a threejudge panel in april that had declared new maps for Michigan State<\/a> legislature and congressional districts as partisan gerrymandering. This was in response to a lawsuit filed against this republican plan that the challenger said made it too hard for democrats to elect the people they wanted and made it too easy for republicans to perpetuate their control of the legislature and michigans representation in congress. But today the Supreme Court<\/a> wiped that ruling out and i must say, this is really no great surprise, because last term the Supreme Court<\/a> said that these partisan gerrymander challenges like this are in essence at their core political questions, not legal ones. Its really beyond the expertise of the courts to decide. And that was really a death nail for any of the partisan gerrymandering cases that were pending. So the Supreme Court<\/a> had put this Lower Court Ruling<\/a> from the threejudge panel on hold. That was certainly a sign that the ruling by that panel on partisan gerrymandering was on life support. And today the Supreme Court<\/a>, i guess, to continue this unfortunate metaphor, pulled the plug. And so this partisan gerrymandering decision from below is wiped off the books. Now, where does this whole issue of partisan gerrymandering stand . Its a pretty clear signal from the Supreme Court<\/a> that these lawsuits are not going to succeed in federal court based on a federal constitutional claim, but that doesnt mean they cant be filed in state courts on a state constitutional claim. So thats where the action is going to be. People who claim that partisan gerrymandering is still a big problem are not going to give up. So todays ruling, while its certainly bad news for the challengers, is no surprise. Pete williams, great to you. Appreciate that. Weve got a lot more ahead, including a new poll just out this morning, showing one of the trailing 2020 democrats surging to the top tier in iowa after last weeks debate. Well have more on that. Plus several more Trump Administration<\/a> officials set to testify this week in the impeachment inquiry. Including the top u. S. Diplomat to ukraine who called the quid pro quo over military assistance crazy. Congressman jerry conley, a member of the Oversight Committee<\/a> is live with us next to talk about it. Ive been plotting to destroy you. Sizing you up. Calculating your every move. You think this is love . This is a billion years of tiger dna just ready to pounce. And if you have the wrong Home Insurance<\/a> coverage, you could be coughing up the cash for this. So get allstate and be better protected from mayhem, like meow. Fidelity has zero commissions for online u. S. Equity trades and etfs, plus zero minimums to open a brokerage account. 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Republicans who are not so thrilled with how this whole impeachment inquiry thing is going down, theyre pushing a vote on a resolution to chen sure the guy running it, adam schiff. None of that is slowing democrats down this week. You have seven more Trump Administration<\/a> officials invited to go ahead and testify from the state and defense departments, the White House Budget Office<\/a> and National Security<\/a> council. Look at the thing thats happening on tuesday. Tomorrows appearance is the one everybody is watching. The top u. S. Diplomat in ukraine, bill taylor. Hes set to appear. In a text message, hes the guy who said it would be, quote, crazy, to withhold Ukraine Military<\/a> aid for political purposes. One of the democrats on the house Oversight Committee<\/a> joins me now. Congressman connelly, thank you for being back on the show. Good to be with you. We mentioned a number of Trump Administration<\/a> officials who were asked to be deposed this week. One of them were now hearing from on twitter. The director of the office of management and budget. He says omb officials, including himself and mike duffy, will not be complying with deposition requests this week. He tweeted that just a few minutes ago. Are you surprised, or no . Unfortunately, im not surprised at the lawlessness of this administration. The failure to respond to a congressional subpoena is a very grave matter and i think, frankly, will put a number of these officials at legal peril down the road. Do you have confirmation that the other five officials will, in fact, appear this week or are some still up in the air . I think some are still up in the air. What i do want to say, though, is i applaud those who have in fact cooperated, even against guidance from the state department with the impeachment inquiry. I think their testimony is very important and i think all americans ought to salute them for putting patriotism ahead of partisan concerns. There are a number of people that i know you and your colleagues want to hear from. I know you have talked about wanting to hear from acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney<\/a>. Will you subpoena him to appear in front of your committees, what are the chances hell comply with that . I dont speak for the inquiry, so i cant answer whether a subpoena will be issued to Mick Mulvaney<\/a>. Do you want one . I think he ought to testify and i think theres precedent for that. During watergate mixens chief of staff testified. So did his domestic policy adviser. So did his chief counsel, john dean. So theres plenty of precedent for active members of an administration coming before congress and responding to a subpoena. Do you think Mick Mulvaney<\/a> did a clear enough job in your view of cleaning up some of his marks over the weekend, or do you still have questions for him . Its awfully hard to sort of put the genie back in the bottle. Having said virtually explicitly at a press conference witnessed by millions that, yeah, sure there was a quid pro quo, get over it. And kind of walk that back, i think, is a hetask. All of these depositions, have been behind closed doors. The chairman has said he will make the deposition transcripts public. Is that something you support . Yes, i think the public needs to see and hear what weve seen and heard and i think an impeachment inquiry and possibility of an impeachment itself is one of the gravest constitutional actions any congress can take. The public needs to know what were doing. The depositions are behind closed doors because were conducting that in a professional and methodical way without the circus that sometimes comes with public hearings and the like. Do you think public hearings will be something youll want to do at some point . Chairman schiff has indicated that after the depositions are concluded there will be public hearings and i would absolutely support that. Senator Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> has predicted that the house will wrap up or vote potentially on these articles of impeachment, he says, by thanksgiving. Is that a realistic timeline to you . I dont know. Were not putting arbitrary timelines on our process. Its going to be methodical, factbased and as comprehensive as we can make it. And so if that requires more time, so be it. My guess is that the house activity is looking toward wrapping up by sometime between now and the end of the year. But were just not setting arbitrary deadlines yet. Its a pleasure to have you back on the show. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Thank you. Weve got a lot more to get to. Including a threeway race in iowa, now a long shot democratic contender may be within striking distance of the two frontrunners. Plus weve got lester holts exclusive one on one interview with the facebook ceo. You will only see it here. What he views at the social media giants role in next years election. 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Ahhh, youre finally building that outdoor kitchen. Yup with room for the whole gang. See how investing with a j. P. Morgan advisor can help you. Visit your local chase branch. In the human brain, billions of nefor people with parkinsons, some neurons change their tune, causing uncontrollable tremors. Now, abbott technology can target those exact neurons. Restoring control and harmony, once thought to belost forever. The most personal technology is technology with the power to change your life. The new polling out of iowa, its just one so far. But if this trend hold, we are talking a serious shift in that state with joe biden, Elizabeth Warren<\/a> and now Pete Buttigieg<\/a> statistically tied for first place in this new Suffolk University<\/a> poll just out. Look at buttigiegs numbers. Hes up 7 points since june and Elizabeth Warren<\/a> up 4. It comes as the massachusetts senator now says shes work on a plan to pay for her medicare for all ideas. This is something ive been working on for months and months. And its got just a little more work until its finished. The Biden Campaign<\/a> is hitting back already, telling nbc news its mystifying that for someone who has put having a plan for everything at the center of her pitch to voters, senator warren has decided to release a had Health Care Plan<\/a> only after pressure to do so. Weve got ali vitali ahead of Elizabeth Warren<\/a>s first stop of the day. Break down this plan from Elizabeth Warren<\/a> and what youre hearing from her campaign about this new polling. As for her plan, shes had the medicare for all plan out for a while, which she has been more cagey on on her suggestions of how to pay for it. Fair . Reporter fair. When youre a candidate with a plan for that, it only makes sense that when the rest of the field says show me the plan on this, there does become a point of contention. So last night in iowa we did see Elizabeth Warren<\/a> as shes been campaigning out here talk about the fact is that there is a plan coming. And the way that shes talking about it, actually tell graphs a little bit of what we might hear from her when the plan actually does come out. It still always comes down to costs versus taxes. Listen to how she talked about it yesterday. I will not sign a bill into law that does not reduce the cost of health care for middle class families because it is the cost of health care that is hurting families. Reporter and so hallie, we hear people when they say taxes and they ask Elizabeth Warren<\/a> about taxes, myself included out here on the campaign trail, she pivots back and reframes to talk about overall household costs. So whats going to be interesting, is its hard to put out what youre going to pay for when theres not necessarily consensus around how much medicare for all costs. And so when she puts out the plan, innature is going to be what her estimate on a medicare for all system is. And all of this comes after the debate last week when lots of candidates, including Pete Buttigieg<\/a>, who is surging in iowa in that poll that you just mentioned, said that they want to hear her specifics on this. So obviously on the debate stage we see the candidates all shaking it up, trying to have a moment. Here in iowa, same thing. The polls are starting to bear out that as all of these candidates are out here campaigning, its really anybodys race here. And thats what experts have been saying for a long time. Its not as early as it once was, but its getting late enough in the game that things can shake up. Ali vitali live for us out on the road. That tees us perfectly for our next guest, msnbc contributor, a democratic strategist who ran coms for Hillary Clintons<\/a> 2016 campaign. Its not as early as it once was, its getting later every minute. Do you see this as an ally or threeway race . I think it may be a threeway race. First of all, mayor pete youve got to keep in mind, Elizabeth Warren<\/a> had the big surge that she had, incremental surge but still a big surge compared to where she started in iowa. The two of those candidates have a lot in common, a lot of cash on hand. Especially compared to joe biden who is sitting on slightly less than 9 million. Ive always thought there was going to be a place for somebody who was under the age of 70 who as younger, newer ideas coming into this race to make it into the top tier of candidates. And i think so far right now were seeing that person be mayor pete. Is this as much Pete Buttigieg<\/a> rising and at the same time Bernie Sanders<\/a> falling . Im never going to rule out Bernie Sanders<\/a>. Youve learned your lessons . We learned lessons in 2016. Bernie iserati raising a lot ofy and he can go back to all those people time and time again and say give me another 15 or 20. So he will have whatever resources he needs to stay in the race but i think its becoming more of a threeway race. You talked about 2016 and that leads us to an unexpected 2020 matchup between a candidate who is not running this time around and a candidate who is running, but trailing badly in the polls. Im talking about your former boss Hillary Clinton<\/a> and Tulsi Gabbard<\/a>. There has been a back and forth now for several days after clinton suggested, without naming her specifically, that gabbard was potentially going to run as a third party. Said she was being puppet eared by the russians. Democrats dont want to get involved in this fight in the 2020 race. Let me play for you a little bit of the reaction we heard to this over the weekend. So youre comfortable with Hillary Clintons<\/a> critique of Tulsi Gabbard<\/a> and how she went about it . No, im also not going to get in the middle of it because as a party and the country have to focus on the future. This is something that im not getting into right now. Do you think that Tulsi Gabbard<\/a> is a russian asset . Again, these questions are bordering on the absurd. So those guys dont want to talk about it. Hillary clinton does. Why is this the right fight for her to pick . Hallie, if i was advising a 2020 candidate right now i would say to do exactly what those guys are doing. Stay out of this. If youre advising Hillary Clinton<\/a>, why would ud be telling her to go after Tulsi Gabbard<\/a> in this way . Shes making a very important point, which is whether or not tulsi or any other candidate that the russians decide to prop up realizes it or not, they are trying to find somebody who they can use to divide this race. They know that donald trump, their candidate, cannot be reelected unless theres a propped up third of Party Candidate<\/a> or Voter Suppression<\/a> on the democratic side. They are choosing Tulsi Gabbard<\/a>. Weve seen russia propaganda prop her up. Weve seen American Voters<\/a> who are sympathetic to putin make donations. So whether or not she realizes, what Hillary Clinton<\/a> is trying to say is take this warning because the russians are at their dirty work right mou. I want to get you on some of the critique, which is the argument that Hillary Clinton<\/a> is elevating Tulsi Gabbard<\/a> by doing this . She didnt mention her by name. She is making she can say whatever she wants. Shes making a very valid point. Shes definitely not running for office again. Shes making a valid point that we should all take notice. Pleasure to have you on. After promising to bring u. S. Troops home, President Trump<\/a> now favors leaving a few hundred soldiers in syria. Our next guest you do not want to miss. The former special president ial envoy for the Global Coalition<\/a> to defeat isis. Brett mcgurk to join us discussing the mixed messages coming from the white house. That helped keep people alive and out of the hospital. Dont take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. Dont take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren or if youve had angioedema with an ace or arb. The most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. Ask your doctor about entresto. Where to next . With moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis<\/a> or crohns, your plans can change in minutes. Your head wants to do one thing, but your gut says, not today. If your Current Treatment<\/a> isnt working, ask your doctor about entyvio. Entyvio acts specifically in the gi tract to prevent an excess of white blood cells from entering and causing damaging inflammation. Entyvio has helped many patients achieve longterm relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. Entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. 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All these new movements are happening as the house speaker, nancy pelosi and other lawmakers come back from the region trying to reassure allies. I want to bring in brett mcgurk who served under the coalition to defeat isis. He resigned in december of last year after President Trump<\/a> announced his decision to withdraw troops from syria. Were lucky to have you. I remember when you resigned, brett, i was covering the white house. If you hadnt resigned then, would this activity now trigger you to resign . Weve seen this movie before. Its a bad movie and its going to get worse. In december President Trump<\/a>, all of a sudden said everybody get out and then he revisited it, that limit our options and influence. As we speak now, we are abandoning all of our basis that we controlled and blowing up the basis as we leave. The population that supported our forces for four years are throwing potatoes and tomatoes at our trucks as we leave. This is shameful and humiliating and now were going to collapse down to a little zone in the southwest part of the northeast syria which happens to have some oil fields. Sos not a considered policy. These are spasms. And to stay in syria just to protect an oil field, that might be one of the purposes. But to say that out loud raises very serious questions. Bloomberg is writing about it this well. The president has mentioned multiple times the idea that troops would stay there to protect oil fields. Where is that coming from . First of all, its illegal. I know this issue pretty well. We cannot exploit the oil. The oil has to be smuggled because we cant legally sell it. So you want to protect the fields to make sure that isis doesnt get at it. But as we collapse our entire position in northeast syria and lose support of the population, to keep a couple hundred troops in a corner of syria to do what . For what purpose . For what mission . How will they be sustained . How will they be supplied . These are serious questions. And most administrations you would have a National Security<\/a> process. These are questions of war and peace. These are about putting american troops in harms way. Theres no process here. These are spasms. So perhaps they can work something out that makes sense, but were only in this position because President Trump<\/a> on october 6th, two weeks ago, again on a whim, told everybody to leave. Two followup questions for you. Did President Trump<\/a> talk about this issue back when you were serving in the administration . The fields were under our control because we took them from isis. The question is what do you do with the oil . This is something secretary tillerson knew quite a bit about. Its illegal for the United States<\/a> to exploit that oil. That said, we do not want that oil to get in the hands of terrorists or others. But to stay in syria for that purpose alone, i think that raises some pretty profound questions. And you if a National Security<\/a> process, the secretary of defense would not be out there over his skis talking about this. You would have deliberation, consultation and you wouldnt have mixed messages. You called the response that were seeing to the americans, you said this whole thing is shameful and humiliating. Those are the words that you used. One word that you didnt use is surprising. Isnt it response something that experts in this field could have seen coming for miles . When i resigned i wrote a piece just to lay out the facts. And the facts are that donald trump does not want to be in syria. And so i was very troubled by the fact that, despite him saying in december get out of syria and then cutting the force by 50 , that we kept all of our objectives in syria, the max al mallist objectives the same. When you have objectives that are not backed by resources and the commander in chief has people in harms way that he doesnt know theyre there or doesnt support them being there, because when you run into a problem, as happens, the president then pulls the rug out. Thats exactly what happened. This is kpj what i feared was going to happen. Before i let you go, i wanted to get your response. The ceasefire that is set to be ending soon, turkey is sending reinforcements to the border. Is there any possibility in your mind that the ceasefire ends up being permanent . I have Great Respect<\/a> for the diplomats working this issue, those brought about by a decision of the president , two decisions by the president now. But this isnt a ceasefire. These towns are deseiged by turkish Opposition Forces<\/a> and the kurdish backed fighters have to leave. Thats a tactic used by the assad regime. Lets not make any mistake, erdogan has ulterior motives here and we should not play into them. I appreciate you being on set to talk through all of the developments. Up next, an nn nbc news exclusive you will only see here. Lester holt is talking to the former chief Security Officer<\/a> to make sure foreign actors do not mess with our elections. First as the sun starts to come up in dallas were getting a clear picture of the damage from the deadly tornado that ripped through the city overnight. Thats a home depot, if you can believe it. Torn to pieces after it was caught in the 17mile path of destruction. The tornado leveled homes, ripped up trees, downed power lines. Tens of thousands of customers are still without power. And they lived happily ever after. The end. The end might not be as happy as you think. After all, 4 out of 5 people who have a stroke, their first symptom is a stroke but the good news is you can rewrite your ending and get screened for stroke and cardiovascular disease. Life line screening is the easy and affordable way to make you aware of undetected Health Problems<\/a> before they hurt you. We use Ultrasound Technology<\/a> to literally look inside your arteries for plaque that builds up as you age and increases your risk for stroke and heart disease. So if youre over 40, call to schedule an appointment for five painless screenings that go beyond annual checkups. And if you call us today, youll only pay 149an over 50 savings. Read it again, papa . Sure. Ive got plenty of time. Life line screening. The power of prevention. Call now to learn more. Gimme one minute. And ill tell you some important things to know about medicare. First, it doesnt pay for everything. Say this pizza is your part b medical expenses. This much about 80 medicare will pay for. Whats left is on you. Thats where an aarp Medicare Supplement<\/a> insurance plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company<\/a> comes in. This type of plan helps pay some of what medicare doesnt. These are the only plans to carry the aarp endorsement for meeting their high standards of quality and service. So call Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company<\/a> today and ask for your free decision guide. With this type of plan, youll have the freedom to choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. And when you travel, your plan will go with you anywhere in the country. Whew call unitedhealthcare today and ask for your free decision guide. Call unitedhealthcare today theres so much scent in new gain scent blast detergent. Youll either love it or. Mmm. I guess not. New gain scent blast. Love it or hate it. Its intense. Nbc news exclusive, the spotlight getting harsher and more intense on facebook. Set to clamp down on online interference ahead of the 2020 election. Lester holt sat down with Mark Zuckerberg<\/a> who admits the company was caught on its back foot in 2016 but zuckerberg says they have no safeguards to fight interference. When it comes to potential disinformation from actors at home zuckerberg seems to be on defense. Do you feel like youre giving a green light to politicians that no, look lie, lie, lie. I believe that it is important for people to be able to hear and see what politicians are saying. I think that when they do that that speech will be heavily scrutinized by other journalists, by other people. Nbcs jo ling kent, zuckerberg seemed to get fired up on that point. Reporter what zuckerberg is referencing is the companys ongoing massive investment in fighting disinformation going into 2020. Theyre unveiling several things. We expect to hear more from them today how theyre going to become more transparent, including identifying issues and posts that are state sponsored that come from statecontrolled media. Also new policies that relate to an Oversight Board<\/a> expected to be an outside organization theyve previously announced here. But this, of course, coming as Mark Zuckerberg<\/a> has met with some conservatives and now today he is under fire for a new report out of bloomberg that says that Mark Zuckerberg<\/a> and his wife dr. Priscilla chan did recommend several k57candidates mayor Pete Buttigieg<\/a>s campaign as possible staffers. Having seen marks visit to south bend in 2017 and face book they were interested in joining. Mark and priscilla have not decided who to support for president and the campaign for mayor Pete Buttigieg<\/a> telling nbc news they can confirm this report. But certainly a lot of scrutiny, of every single move of this billionaire facebook ceo who is trying to do as much as he can to protect 2020. Hal . Jo ling kent with that statement. Thanks for bringing that to us. From california, alex stamos, the chief Security Officer<\/a> for facebook, now an nbc cybersecurity analyst. A little bit more of what zuckerberg had to say to lester here. Part of growing up for me has just been realizing that it is more important to be understood than it is to be liked. And i believe that very strongly. I do think that people can make up their own minds about me or the work that were doing but this is who i am. What do you think, alex, is that the right attitude to have in the face of what i think some would call appropriate criticism of the company . Well, i think the criticisms are appropriate. I think, you know, this big move to put in place a content review board, a set of people that are independent from the company to help think through these decisions could not come earlier. The truth is, is that mark is probably just too powerful to have one person be the controlling shareholder, the chairman, the ceo and effectively the chief product officer of a 2 billion social Person Network<\/a> is too much responsibility to put on one person and these decisions need to be made by a diverse set of thinkers in a transparent and open manner. Thats part of the basic problem here. The issues hes dealing with are not new. The advertisement in question were talking about was not just run by facebook, it was run by fox, cbs, abc, youtube, twitter and msnbc. And so when you have a lot of Traditional Media Companies<\/a> also struggling with this basic problem of how do you treat advertisements from candidates, and should these massive corporations be the Fact Checkers<\/a> and i think theres no good, easy answer here but the problem is mark making decisions by himself is an issue. Okay. So you know this guy. You have worked with Mark Zuckerberg<\/a>. Do you think that he understands, do you think he gets it here . Do you think he understands why hes getting so much criticism and what has to be done . From a personal level. I think on a personal level hes trying to balance two things. One, he wants facebook to be liked, right, but he also is looking at the global perspective. So Something Like<\/a> 5 of facebooks users are american and so he has to be really careful what precedence he sets for the u. S. 2020 election that are then going to set expectations of how facebook acts globally. I think thats what we keep on missing when we talk about facebook. Interesting point, yeah. We like to envision that the United States<\/a> is the only place where he has to make these decisions. But every democracy in the world is impacted by facebooks advertising, and editorial policies. And that is whats really driving him right now is trying to come up with a level of neutrality that he can enforce in 100 different countries. So bottom line, thumbs up, thumbs down here with the policies that it sounds like zuckerberg is going to unveil, where are you . On the policies theyre talking about today, from what i understand, i think theyre going to be more aggressive about state media. So we have this significant problem of rt and sputnik, cctv in china, theres a number of out lets controlled by authoritarian governments that are pushing their line on facebook. So i think theres reasonable changes there. The real problem in the United States<\/a> is not foreign influence in 2020, its probably going ton domestic actors. For that i dont think ive seen the response from facebook yet. So the truth is, you know deciding not to edit the statements of a politician is one thing. But to apply those rules to ads, i dont think, has that necessarily has to be true. Okay. Facebooks ad platform is incredibly powerful. What id like to see them do, if theyre not going to fact check, is to limit the ability for microtargeting to be used by politicians. Thats like the core issue here is the fact that the Trump Campaign<\/a> can target very small groups of people. Alex stamos, appreciate your perspective and being on with us. You can see much more of lesters interview with Mark Zuckerberg<\/a> tonight on nbc news. Time to look at what our sources are saying, were lucky enough to keir simmons live outside of british parliament. I cover the u. S. Administration and the white house every day, you, my friend, are getting a turn at the political whirlwind that is this brexit deal, whats going on . Yeah. Well, you know, its not a great way to start a live report, is it . But honestly you could be forgiven for thinking that in there theyre trying to bore people into brexit. Its a political trench warfare in there using every piece of parliamentary rules and regulations to try to halt brexit while the Prime Minister<\/a> is trying to push it through. The fundamental issue from a kind of helicopter perspective is that theres just too many people with too many different views trying to get their way over brexit so youve got all of the european countries, youve got every lawmaker in there, youve got the british executive. Of course youve got the british people. And there is a kind of democratic clash between what the british people voted for in a referendum and the fact that actually lawmakers in there are the ones that are supposed to run the country, if you like. It is an extremely difficult it is day by day, kind of into the detail, into the weeds stuff, fundamentally whats going to need to happen is a general election that you hope will change the political dynamics in there and get britain able to make a decision. But even that theres even a question of when that might happen. Well, youve got your weed wacker at the ready, my friend. Keir simmons, thanks very much. Thanks to you watching this hour of msnbc live. A packed monday, continuing now with craig melvin in new york. Good to see you hallie jackson. Craig melvin, msnbc headquarters in new york city. Damage control mode, thats how the white house finds itself this morning amid a series of walkbacks and retreats on multiple issues, all happening under the cloud of the impeachment inquiry, the biggest cleanup job may fall on the president s acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney<\/a>, new reporting on whats happening inside the white house coming up. Meanwhile on capitol hill another busy week of crucial testimony, republicans ramping up their fight against democrats, the man leading the investigation as well. Theyre expected to be pushing a vote against Intelligence Committee<\/a> chairman adam schiff today. Also, the buttigieg bump, a new poll puts the south bend mayor within striking distance of joe biden and Elizabeth Warren<\/a>, it com","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia803102.us.archive.org\/1\/items\/MSNBCW_20191021_140000_MSNBC_Live_With_Hallie_Jackson\/MSNBCW_20191021_140000_MSNBC_Live_With_Hallie_Jackson.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20191021_140000_MSNBC_Live_With_Hallie_Jackson_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}