Haspel steps out of the shadows. Start with Stormy Daniels. Donald trumps attorney got about a half Million Dollars from a Company Controlled by a russian coal gasoligarch right e 2016 election. Nbc news reviewed financial documents that appear to support avenattis account of those transactions and we just learned, just minutes ago, that Pharmaceutical Company novartis made payments of 1. 2 million to cohens firm, essential consultants. Three times more than originally reported. Corporate giant at t also confirmed making payments. The question is why so much money went to cohens company, and Michael Avenatti raised a provocative possibility. Are you suggesting that Michael Cohen does not have a ph. D. In Aerospace Technology and pharmaceutical policy . Where youre i wont only suggest it but state that at a fact. Two real questions, i dont this guys the da vinci of our time. Nbcs Kelly Odonnell is at the white house for us. I want to play the comments avenatti made here with Lawrence Odonnell last night. Take a listen. The big question is this all of this money comes in to this account. Essential consultants llc. We have reason to believe it didnt all go to Michael Cohen individually. Michael cohen needs to disclose where the balance of that money went. Fanned it went to donald trump or the Trump Organization and if Michael Cohen was part of a scheme to sell access to the president of the United States, that would be rather, a rather shocking development, but i dont think that that is out of the realm of possibility at this point. So kelly, fowhat are folks a the white house saying . Reporter keeping their distance, you would expect. Part of what we piece together here is that the president s lawyer, Michael Cohen is no longer working in that capacity according to Rudy Giuliani who said it would be inappropriate giving the legal matters. Cohen in the past sense, one way to distance themselves from cohen. We havent had yet the opportunity to get on the record responses from the white house about this limited Liability Corporation that cohen had set up that we know was used for the Stormy Daniels payment and as the documents indicate, avenatti talks about it, those on our team who reviewed them say the essentials limited Liability Corporation, consulting group, was receiving these other funds. Now, is this selling access to the president . That would be very serious. Is it a business transaction where cohen provided some yet to be determined services to these entities . One of the things we can go back to is that in the documents that became public when there was the search of the cohen residence, office and so forth, the indication and the official prosecutors language was they were looking at the business dealings of Michael Cohen. That could fall under that heading, and so it would be likely that prosecutors know many of the answers to the questions posed by the daniels lawyer, auv navenatti, who got money . Did the president get this mun . Expect the white house to look for ways to distance itself and new questions surfacing with the revolutions brought forward and seem to be backed up by documentary evidence. Chris . A lot of questions about the press briefing, pretty late. 3 30, i think. Kelly odonnell, thank you for that. Bring in senior fbi official Chuck Rosenberg now an msnbc contributor. Natasha bertrand, msnbc contributor and msnbc legal analyst danny savalas. Natasha, a big picture from you. You wrote this morning about the convergence of two scandals. Has Michael Avenatti connected dots between the russia probe and the cohen investigation . He may have. We really dont know at this point. What Michael Avenatti seems to be suggesting perhaps Michael Cohen used some of the money received from Columbus Nova, a term tied to the Russian Oligarch to reimburse himself from money paid to Stormy Daniels. In that sense trying to link the two. The real question, was he receiving the money from Columbus Nova in a matter entirely separate from the Stormy Daniels deal . For example, to curry favor by viktor vekselberg, this Russian Oligarch, an attempt by him to get access to the president . Now, the Stormy Daniels and the russia story dont necessarily have to be linked, but the fact that this came from Stormy Daniels attorney, of course, is very, very interesting. Yeah, and lets just be clear about this. She was paid 130,000, danny savalas. Were talking about money far in excess of that. Novartis paid out 1. 2 million. We just learned that. To cohens firm in the year preceding, preceding the termination and issued a statement that reads in part novartis determined that Michael Cohen and essential consultants would be unable to provide the services novartis anticipated related to u. S. Health care policy matters and the decision was taken not to engage further. As the contract unfortunately could only be terminated for cause, payments continued to be made until the contract expired by its own term, february 2018. So i dont know. This im not an mba or a lawyer, but you pay somebody 1. 2 million. Theyre not a lobbyist. Not even acting as a lawyer. No. As Michael Avenatti so colorfully put it, in one of my favorite statements of the day, kind of the da vinci of basically everything in this. Does that make any sense to you . Either jack of all trades . Is he the master of none . Or one . Because hes not an attorney, as you said. Not acting as a as a consultant or lobbyist. Yeah. But if he is a consultant, the question ultimately becomes, what were the Services Expected . What were the Services Provided . And or not provided in the case, in this case, which they say they didnt get what they paid for. Because he is, hes acting pursuant to a contract that we would like to see the terms of. What exactly was expected of him, because they say they could only terminate him for cause. Sounds like an employer employee relationship not independent conta contacter. The issue, nature of Services Provided and ultimately where the money went. You wall, ec consultants, money in its coffers was originally used to pay 130,000 to Stormy Daniels. Isnt that what we believed it was set up for . To pay that money . Circumstantial evidence made that a very reasonable create ed ten days before the payment was made. Thinking it was the only purpose. Raises the question, how did they hear of this if it doesnt have a web page and what services was it basing this decision to engage essential consultants if the only prior business it engaged in was Stormy Danielstype payment . It didnt exist. Wasnt experience, chuck, but you are an experienced federal prosecutor. At t, one of the Big Companies that paid money to them and gave may a clue what they paid their money for. Heres part of their statement essential consulting was one of several firms we engaged in early 2017 to provide insights into understanding the new administration. They did know legal or lobbying work for us, and the contract ended in december of 2017. 200 grand for insights. It youre a prosecutor in this case are you looking at that, saying exactly as Michael Avenatti is did they pay that to buy access . Is this pay for play . I dont know if its pay for play yet, chris, but ill tell you. You can bet your Bottom Dollar that the folks at novartis and at t are going to get a bunch of subpoenas from the mueller team and theyre going to answer a bunch of questions, because, first of all, i assume all of this has already happened. I assume the mueller team knows a heck of a lot more than we know, and by the way, as we saw in the manafort indictment, in have an uncanny ability to follow the money. To know where the money came from and more important, perhaps, chris, know where the money went. I assume as always were several steps behind the mueller team in what we know. I assume at some point Michael Cohen could be asked under oath, what was the expectation . What were you paid this money to do . Yeah . Yeah. I think thats exactly right, and heres the unfortunate thing from a prosecutors standpoint. We hate investigating our cases in public. Right . We want certain things from our witnesses. We want them to be truthful. We want them to be consistent. And we want it to be done quietly or privately. So all of the things that potential witnesses are now saying on the streets of new york, in public, on television, could contradict stuff they say later under oath or to the Investigative Team and danny knows this as very good defense attorney. Defense attorneys can make a lot of hay out of these contradictory statements. Theres nothing at all helpful to the Prosecution Team in investigating this publicly and on the airwaves. Danny, weve spoken. Lots of lawyers have poken admiringly the way Michael Avenatti is playing this. Keeping it in the public eye. Raising a lot of provocative questions. If youre on the other side, Robert Mueller, do you wish he would shut the heck up . Probably. Or Robert Mueller may take the position that, hey, weve already got this and weve got a lot more. Yes, we would prefer Michael Avenatti was not out there but maybe mueller thinks Michael Avenatti has a small fraction of what theyve been able to uncover. As well as Michael Avenatti has done in terms of investigating this issue a, preparing this memo, you can bet that mueller has vastly greater resources. He has the power of the government behind him to obtain these documents and i suspect had this stuff a long time. To the extent people are saying words, inconsistent, could come back to frustrate mueller or make him very happy. We heard briefly from a guy who im sure is looking at this very closely and you have to wonder if his nervousness level is rising. That is Michael Cohen. So media caught up with him this morning and asked him about those documents that avenatti put out there. Heres what he said mr. Cohen great. Thank you. How do you feel any response . Any response . The documents are inaboccura. How do you feel about you may have changed an election . Not too close. Not too close. Chuck what do you suppose that means . Its inaccurate. A document is a document. It is either a legit document or illegitimate document. Yeah. Good question, chris. I dont know what he means, but i think dannys right. Mueller has all of this stuff already. The documents are what the documents purport to be. Theyre going to have the information about where the money came from and where it went. Muellers way ahead of all of us, as usual. I dont think theres anything helpful about investigating this case publicly. In any sense of the word. But mueller probably has this all locked down, and i wouldnt take Michael Cohen at his word, particularly as hes walking into a taxi on a new york street. Natasha, youve been all over this and called Michael Cohens attorney steve ryan to ask him exactly the question we want to know about the 500 grand says cohen got from the Russian Oligarch. He hung up on you . He very much did not want to discuss it. This is just when Michael Avenatti broke the news on twitter essentially. I called up steve ryans cell and said, what is this about . He said he didnt want to discuss it but did entertain a few of my questions. He said it was not a payment and incorrect to call it a payment. He said he acknowledged this transaction occurred but took issue with calling it a payment. When i spoke to Michael Avenatti later he told me to say it was not a payment is completely inaccurate. Seems theyre parsing a bit but the key is that Michael Cohen was looking for new clients after the election, and after Donald Trumps inauguration. And whether or not those new clients like the Russian Oligarch who hired him and paid him 500,000 were trying to gain access to the Administration Remains to be seen, but many people in both trumps world and in cohens world tell me that it seems clear that this was meant to gain access to the president. Raising a lot more questions that Robert Mueller may have the answers to but were still talking about it. Thank you all. Appreciate it very much. Interrogating the interrogator. President trumps pick to lead the cia grilled on capitol hill about her past and future especially regarding torture. I can offer you my personal commitment clearly and without reservation that under my leadership on my watch cia will not restart a detention and Interrogation Program. The secretary of state bringing home three americans who have been in prison in north korea. How theyre release came together at the last moment. To run this business, but i really love it. Im on the move all day long, and sometimes i dont eat the way i should. So i drink boost to get the nutrition im missing. Boost high protein now has 33 more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. And it has a guaranteed great taste. Man boost gives me everything i need to be up for doing what i love. Boost high protein. Be up for it. Boost high protein. The full value of your new car . Youre better off throwing your money right into the harbor. Im gonna regret that. With new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, Liberty Mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. Liberty stands with you. Liberty mutual insurance. And back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid. Plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. Im back. Aleve pm for a better am. Former spy gina haspelhind k about the highly sensitive stuff she couldnt talk about this as her bid to become the next cia director. Not questioning her experience but there are plenty of questions about her involvement in a post9 11 Interrogation Program that many called torture. I can offer you my personal commitment clearly and without reservation that under my leadership on my watch cia will not restart a detention and Interrogation Program. If this president asked you to do something that you find morally objectionable, even if there is an olc opinion what will you do . Will you dhaer ocarry that out, option, that order or not . Were entrusting you to a very different position if confirmed . My moral compass is strong. I would not allow cia to undertake activity i thought was immoral, even if it was technically legal. Do you believe that the previous interrogation techniques were immoral . Senator, i believe that cia officers to whom you referred its a yes or no answer. Senator, i think ive answered the question. No, youve not. Senator, i believe that we should hold ourselves to the moral standard outlined in the army field manual. Ken delanian joins me now after having watched all of that happening there. What did we learn . What else did we learn, besides what we just heard there . What are your big takeaways, ken. Reporter we learned there is still a great fault line over what the cia did to detainees after 9 11. As a nation we are confronted with threats from iran, north korea, china, russia. Almost no questions about those subjects to a woman who could be the next cia director. Almost all questions devoted to what rule did she play in the brutes interrogation techniques and what did she feel about it . She said some things democrats wanted to hear. The cia will not go down the road again, its against the law. Even if President Trump wanted to bring this back, asked her to do it she would resist, but on this question what did she personally feel about the techniques, were they moral, immoral . She refused to answer. We have sound from the senator from new mexico trying to get an answer to that question. Lets take a listen. I know you believed it was legal. I want to see i want to feel, i want to trust, that you have the moral compass you said you have. Youre giving very legalistic answers to very fundamentally moral questions. Senator, you know, weve provided the committee every evaluation since my training report when i first joined in 1985, in all of my assignments i have conducted myself honorably and in accordance with u. S. Law. My parents rai