Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi 20180828 :

MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi August 28, 2018

The administration tries to rewrite nafta. As im speaking to you, the president is in the oval office right now with the head of the International Soccer federation and the head of u. S. Soccer. Really, its a convenient political set piece because as you well know, the u. S. , mexico and canada were given the right to host the world cup in 2026. As the administration tris to rewrite a trade deal with both countries, youll hear the president claim that hes the reason the world cup is coming back to north america. But we have seen him do some counter programming of his own using his favorite megaphone in twitter. And a couple tweets say this, google results for trump news shows only the viewing reporting of fake news media. In other words, they have it rigged for me and others so that almost all stories and news is bad. He then continues, google and others are suppressing voices of conservatives and hiding information and news that is good. He ends by saying, this situation will be addressed. So that led us to wonder, how is there going to be an investigation . Will there be new allegations . The questions are compounded by larry kudlow, the house economic adviser who told me and a few reporters this morning that, yes, this is something being looked into. I followed up with Sarah Sanders who echoed kudlow to say, yeah, were going to look into it. So we dont know what form, if any, any sort of inquiry or investigation it will take, but you have the president here without evidence accusing google just like he accused twitter and facebook some days ago of a broad scale conspiracy, ali . Geoff, thank you very much. Well see if anything else comes out of the white house. The district judge is delaying the district trial against Paul Manafort until september 24th. This comes after manaforts legal team argued that they need more time to sort through more than a thousand pieces of evidence. Todays delay comes as the watl street journal reports manaforts defense team held talks with federal prosecutors to try to strike a deal to resolve the second set of charges before his conviction in last weeks trial. A deal was not made but the journal writes, quote, the plea discussions on the washington case represent a softening in posture for mr. Manafort who has fought charges brought by mr. Muellers 15month investigation, longer and more aggressively than other defendants in the probe. Joining me now is nbc news justice reporter julia ainsley. Julian, for people who are having trouble following this, this is not an insignificant piece of news. That while that jury was deliberating, while Paul Manafort thought he still had a chance of being exonerated, of being found innocent, he was talking or his lawyers were talking to government lawyers about a possible deal. Right, ali. It is not clear how far the discussions really went. It doesnt seem like they became very material, but i can tell you they were not important to the president of the United States. Trump just tweeted last week that manafort did not break unlike cohen. He sees manafort as someone who has been loyal to him. And just the mirror thought that they why may be cooperating in the second trial. And there have been a lot of whistles that could suggest a pardon if he holds out. Especially going into the second trial, that will not necessarily touch on his work for the campaign, but be more involved in his political work overall for what he did for ukraine and the fact that he did not register as a Foreign Agent in the United States. A lot of that is gearing up to be damaging for Paul Manafort and would bring all this work he did for trump back into the spotlight. Julia, at this point, like you said, we dont know that much about what the negotiations were about, but it could have just been a plea deal. In other words, its not necessarily that he was talking about cooperating with the government. Thats right. We dont know any of the details what the wall street journal report said is it was special counsel mueller that said no to this. Details they were not agreeing to. But look, we know that Paul Manafort worked on the campaign, especially during the crucial times during the Republican National convention when the russian platform changed. Theres a lot that mueller wants to get from manafort. We have been saying that for a long time. But as we head into the second trial, ali, now you are looking at a judge who could be less favorable than judge ellis. And remember, that was the time, that was while the virginia jury was deliberating that these talks would have gone on reportedly. And so it may be that they were looking ahead and thinking, were going to be facing an even tougher environment coming september in d. C. Julia, thank you very much. Julian ainsley, nbc news reporter. And its been months since trumps lawyer, Rudy Giuliani rudy giulia, told nbc news that Robert Muellers team told him they cannot indict a sitting president. But that was before Donald Trumps personal Attorney Michael Cohen said under oath that then candidate donald trump directed him to arrange hush money payments to women in order to influence the 2016 election. So i want to take a closer look at this whole indictment issue. The simple question about who says that a president , a sitting president cannot be indicted. The u. S. Constitution lays out a way to remove the president from office and this this is the wrong thing, so i will have my control room change the way around, that would be impeachment. The constitution is silent on whether a president can face criminal prosecution while in office. So in 1973, at the height of the watergate scandal, the olc issued an opinion that criminal proceedings damaged the president s ability to do his job and therefore shouldnt be brought while hes in office. This came out about two weeks before the worst of watergate happened. Now another memo, about 27 years later, reinforced the original argument stating the indictment of a sit iting president called for extraordinary circumstances. That means in theory that Rod Rosenstein has been asked to go against the official policy and to indict president. That barring something truly earthshaking is unlikely, but consider this, those memos and guidelines according to the olc website are to provide legal advice to the president and all executive branch agencies. All executive branch agencies. So outside the federal government, there might be another way to do this, like perhaps a state office that has the power to bring an indictment. And an office like a state attorney general. For example, this woman, new York Attorney general barbara wood. I want to examine this further. Because people are asking, is it really true you cant indict a sitting president. This man is a Deputy Assistant attorney general for affairs. There are people who are saying Michael Cohen is facing perjury, you generally dont lie in these positions, told open court that he conspired with a candidate whom we know to be donald trump, to pay people off ahead of an election. Why wouldnt that make the president guilty of a crime for which he can be indicted . Well, again, it is incredibly difficult and remains incredibly difficult to indict a sitting president. Even though the olc guidance you talked about would not apply to the new York State Attorney general, a smart defense attorney would bring the same argument. And the court could look at it. And might actually rely on it. It is certainly not binding in new york state courts, but it is certainly something to think about. The framers were quite deliberate in how difficult they made it to remove a sitting president. And believing openly in the questions on whether to indict the president. Part of this question as to hampering the president s ability to conduct the affairs of his job, in part, stems from the fact that the president is the only entity in government that serves by himself. And so, for instance, theres one president , theres 100 senators, theres 435 members of congress. Congress can still keep doing its job if any number of members of congress arent there. Thats where the legal argument comes from. So elliott, let me ask you this, some people say the stuff the president did a long time ago should make him open to this sort of thing, but the president likes to brag about the idea he could shoot someone in the head on fifth avenue and it still wouldnt affect him. Just to make the case, that would be an extraordinary circumstance in which somebody could go to the Deputy Attorney general and say notwithstanding the counsels guidance, this would be an extenuating circumstances. There are things in which you can see someone attempting to convince the court to indict the president. Yes, an active homicide in the middle of Downtown Manhattan would probably be the kind of thing that would count. But again, its still going to be an incredibly complicated Legal Process for doing so. Many scholars have said the approach is to impeach the president , if, in fact, the special counsel finds that there have been high crimes and misdemeanors. Another point for high crimes and misdemeanors where theres not a line i have heard people lay out the argument that i laid out for the audience, but most people like i do, who i have spoken to and studied say it is highly unlikely. If folks think the president should be out of the office before the next election, impeachment is not its hard, but its not going to be easier than this. And Something Else to keep in mind is that what the new York State Attorney general is looking into trumpowned organizations and businesses like the trump foundation. So you cant indict a sitting president , but you can certainly indict a foundation. You can certainly indict a corporation. And you can certainly indict the people around a president or any individual. Now, that is not im not asking for or calling on them to do so, but if the law and the facts support it, certainly those things around the president , again, like the foundation as we saw with the new York State Attorney general, thats certainly fair game under the law. Elliot, thank you for this. Elliott Williams Works at the Justice Department and worked under president obama. With all these things unrattling, the president is rejecting all his closest friends and allies. Vanity fair correspondent gabe sherman reports that senior officials talked about inviting a group of trumps new york state friends to the white house to stage, quote, an intervention. And according to two sources breached on the matter, it was supposed to be a war council, one source explained, but trump refused to take the meeting, sources say. Gabe is joining us, and Clinton Watts is a former fbi special agent. Gabe, what is the what is the goal of this and what is happening in the white house . If you have seen the president s twitter account since the manafort news, it has been all over the map. The people closest to him, the ones i talk to, say they do not feel the president is taking the seriousness of his legal situation appropriately. That he doesnt understand the gravity he finds himself in with the unindicted coconspirator. But hes serious enough about it to make phone calls and scream at people if hes angry. Yes. They were trying to break through to him, get the old new york City Real Estate buddies down to the white house to tell him to take this seriously. He cant just be going on twitter. He cant fire sessions or rod rosenste rosenstein. Some of these would be a trip wire that some republicans would say would trigger the talk of impeachment, even outside of democratic circles. That is what im hear iing. The day of the cohen plea, people were briefed on his mood on the flight and said he was very subdued. He was subdued at the event. Yes, we saw that on live television. This was a blow to him. I think a few things shocked donald trump. I think donald trump is an unusual character. He lashes out at these moments that are surprising. Then he goes quiet at other moments. I guess the point is, as the pressure continues to build around him, investigators are not displeased with the fact the president does lash out. Hes now said he might get rid of don mcgahn, the white house council, because mccann doesnt want to give Paul Manafort a pardon. It is the most curious strategy. Ultimately, all these things are selfinflicted wounds. The whole need, basically the president s dig he didnt li to his adviser. Thats what we hear, he listened to a small group of people that told him what he wanted to hear. So when i see these stories and they seem plausible, hes not taking input from people around him, hes not taking input from advisers. It makes me very worried about, who is running this country . What is the direction . What is the purpose of the president . To lead the country. And i dont know what is being accomplished in terms of his agenda or in terms of anything beyond the legal case. It is really taking over the entire white house. And every action he takes, every lashing out that he does either on twitter or even in his personal conversations, ultimately is indicative of the position that hes in. And i just always think, if im a foreign adversary right now that wants to strike at the United States or do something around the world, there is no time better than the present, really, to make your gains in terms of your foreign policy, visavis the United States or while the u. S. Is so distracted. So gabe, this is interesting, because yesterday we heard john kelly and Sarah Huckabee sanders had both recommended a strategy around john mccains passing, the president , again, sort of overruled everybody until it was too much to take. But that is a good question. There was some sense in the beginning that there were adults in the room. The president has systematically gotten rid of the adults in the room or sidelined some of them like john kelly. Clints point is valid. At this point, is there somebody governing strategy around the world or is donald trump trying to protect himself from the onslaught he is facing . Well, you nailed it. And i just reported in the last piece that Jared Kushner went to the president and said, do not revoke John Brennans security clearance. This is going to backfire. And according to my reporting, the president got, quote, joy out of that decision. Jared kushner came away from that exchange frustrated that not even basic advice is getting through to him because the president is pursuing his personal vendettas, as we saw with the mccain episode of not lowering the flags. That was a grotesque it was indicative that everyone around the president thinks hes making bad decisions. Gabe sherman, thank you for your reporting on this. Gabe sherman with vanity fair. And Clinton Watts, nbc, National Security analyst. President trump just wrapped up an event in the oval office with the fifa president. Fifa is the organization that oversees International Soccer and the world cup. The u. S. , canday and mexico are hosting the world cup in 2026. The president didnt answer whether mexico agreed to pay for the border wall as part of the new deal that the president announced yesterday, but he said mexico, yesterday he said mexico will pay for the wall. He also talked about the controversial google tweet earlier saying google is treading on troubled territory. Well bring you more news from it as it breaks and talk about google. But up next, senator Lindsey Graham is getting set for a tribute to his longtime friend and colleague, john mccain. Ohn n if youre turning 65, you may be learning about medicare ohn n and supplemental insurance. Medicare is great, but it doesnt cover everything. Only about 80 of your part b medicare costs. A Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan may help cover some of the rest. 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