130,000 payment . Bombshell details the lengths and expense Attorney Michael Cohen went to protect the president. Plus, back fire from Rudy Giuliani may have exposed the president to even more legal risks. In addressing the nra, president trumble touts protecting the Second Amendment and then doubles down on the protecting the schools. Lets get right now to the new pictures getting them out of cleveland. The president arriving just a few minutes ago. Hes going to spend the day campaigning ahead of tuesdays hotly contested primary elections there. But the president leaves behind in washington the fall jot over the alleged payment to Stormy Daniels. Now two people familiar with the payment arrangement told the New York Times that President Trump knew about it months before he denied to reporters on air force one last month. Although it was not immediately clear when exactly the president learned of the payment. We have several reporters in place with all of the latest developments. Nbcs Geoff Bennett in cleveland. Kelly odonnelodonnell. And john harlan with perspective on this. Lets go to you. We saw the president touch down. What do we expect to hear from him today . Hey, there, alex, os tentens, the president will talk about the tax law. Youll remember, last month it was, when the president was at a similar tax round table in West Virginia. He held up his prepared remarks called taxes boring and then went sort of full tilt into Campaign Mode talking about illegal immigration. And making unsubstantiated claims about voter fraud and that sort of thing. I will tell you, though, as i was on my way over here to talk with you, i stopped behind that building where the president is going to speak. I sorment of surveyed the crowd. It appears to be, every indication this is middle of the road Traditional Chamber of commerce type republicans. Maybe that will be one indication that the president will stick to the script. Of course, were keeping an ear out of whether or not the president says anything about the new reporting from the New York Times that he was in fact aware of the sixfigure hush payment money that his Attorney Michael Cohen paid out to Stormy Daniels. Its not exactly clear when the president knew but the timing of course that he did know at the time he denied any knowledge of it to reporters aboard air force one. Its raising the stakes and questions about the white houses credibility, alex. It is indeed, geoff. Thank you for that. Lets bring in nbcs kelly odonnell. Kelly, another welcome to you on this saturday. Looming over all of this is the White House Defense of the daniels payment. Whats the latest on that from inside the white house . Reporter well, ive been in touch with the president s legal team today. And they are not responding to any of these new reports. And what we saw through the wall street journal and the New York Times are important incremental pieces of information that add to what has become a complex picture about when did the president know about this arrangement. Weve seen the denials. We saw the muddied up instance this week where Rudy Giuliani says the president was informed in recent days. The president saying were not changing the story. And giuliani was mistaken. Giuliani says he was speaking only of his knowledge, not the president s. So the wall street journal is giving us some insight into a potential mechanism that Michael Cohen may have used to bring in more funds. He had properties where he was able to access a home line of credit. An equity home line. Many people have done this with their own homes if they have resources within the home. Lining up additional available cash, if he were to ask for the loans. So the unclear part. We dont know if he actually used this money. But he dramatically increased during the Campaign Year the amount available to him. Up to a level of about 774,000. That is important, because cohen had offered at one point that a home equity line is the way that he had money available to pay Stormy Daniels without the president s knowledge or involvement. So that makes that of use. The wall street journal reports that based on their sourcing, those transactions of getting the additional access to loan money was something that federal investigators would at least want to look at. So thats the wall street journal report. Tthe New York Times gives us different picture saying there was at least one top official at the top of the Trump Organization that was aware last year that the president was making monthly paymentsch about 35,000 to cohen, from a personal trust that holds the president s fortune. Not the companys money, his own money. And that reporting also says the president knew in advance of his denial on air force one in early april. So what this tells us, it gives us a bit of a mechanism that may have been available to make Funds Available to cohen. And it also gives us insight on sources telling the New York Times that kwrp people in the president sed me orbit and the president himself who were aware of this arrangement with Stormy Daniels. Alex. Kelly odonnell at the white house. Joining me now, rene graham, contributor for the bloboston g. And john harlan. G to see you both. John, the story of daniels payment, there is so much confusion here, right . How does the public keep up with this . And does the confusion then turn to help the president . Well, i dont think the confusion really matters one way or the other, alex. If you look at polling, long before these revelations, americans had concluded, the majority of americans that trump was lying about not having the affair. And lying about not knowing about the hush money. Whats happened now is that the trump team, both the white house and his outside Legal Advisers know that federal investigators have a better sense of whats going on because they raided Michael Cohens office. And while those investigators know, we cant know for sure, but its common sense, given the players in this situation and the changing stories, that theyre kind of making it up as they go along. Trying to both keep up with what investigators know. And say things that arent too counterproductive publicly. Hasnt worked very well. And i think thats with kelly reported that the legal team decided today that were just not responding to what the New York Times is report ing. Im going to get to your article in a secretary, rene the question, this week about the president knew about this payment to when did he know about this payment . Why is that so significant because johns article that were going to discuss talks about the fact that the public doesnt necessarily hold him accountable for everything he said. So, he denied it. Why is this important . You know, i think theres a problem in that the narrative keeps changing. Initially, you know, the president s idea was i dont know anything about this. You need to ask Michael Cohen. And it sort of feels every month, every week, every day, it keeps changing. It goes from i knew nothing about it, to, yes, i knew about it, to, yes, there were these payments. I do think the white house was probably blind sided by Rudy Giulianis appearance on fox. And Rudy Giuliani having been out of public eye for a while so he went into this look at me im a sandra dee for a moment and kind of spilled all the tea. This mess cleared up before Rudy Giuliani even said anything. I want to get to this. Most voters have become numb to each new trump scandal because they dont believe what he says anyway. So, politically speaking, john, is this stormy scandal a wash . And by the way, what does this is a is about society if people just think, yeah, we get it, the president doesnt tell the truth. So what. Well, a couple of things, first ever aof all, separate th that peoples regard for trumps character and truthfulness from the story revelations. People have already decided, in fact, throughout his presidency, majorities have told pollsters they dont think trump is honest. So, thats hurt him. Thats one of the reasons why his Approval Ratings are historically low even though the country is sat relative peace and the company is doing well. Its just a additional incremental revelations dont necessarily change that picture. Hes already been pushed down by this. And so, i think americans are looking at whats happening in their lives. Theyre trying to figure out is this economy Getting Better for me. Have the republicans passed the tax cut, as Geoff Bennett was saying a while ago, republicans want to talk about the tax cut. So far, the American People is not indicating most people, that theyre getting a lot of benefit out of that. So, i think people are focused on their own lives, and much less on the white house than you and i and renee are. But theyre going to wait for concrete developments like what comes out of the Mueller Investigation before this actually shakes where people are right now. So, renee, msnbcs Donny Deutsch said he spoke of Michael Cohen, he identifies himself as a friend of Michael Cohen. This all happened after Rudy Giuliani media tour. I spoke with Michael Cohen yesterday, and he quoted that giuliani doesnt always know what hes talking about. He said there are two people that know exactly what happened, miegs and t myself and the president. And youll be hearing my side of the story and he was obviously very frustrated with what came out yesterday. How much does this complicate the white houses defense especially since cohen is going to be telling his side of the story . Well, i think were also seeing a familiar pattern here in undercutting Rudy Giuliani. Saying he doesnt know what hes talking about, only the president and i know what happened. I think this is the situation, where its constantly fluid and you dont know who to believe. Or more correctly, you know who not to believe. Because a thing is said and they pull back from it. And then they put out one scenario, and then they put out a different scenario. I just dont know how this white house continues to do. Again, were seeing a pattern. This is what they did with Michael Cohen. And thats what Michael Cohen is trying to do with Rudy Giuliani which may mean that the clock is ticking on Rudy Giuliani as the president s attorney. Yeah. I want to ask both of you this. Renee, you can go first here. Look at the poll numbers, okay . Weve just updated them, theyre now at 49 . How much does this help republicans case in november, given everything were talking about, all of the controversy, fabrications, accusations, legal constructs that are taking up so much time of the countrys attention, this administrations attention . How is it that the numbers go up . How do you explain that, renee . I think its what john mentioned, people look very much at their own lives and see whats happening with their lives. If theyre happy with where they are, theyre probably less focused on the scandals. It does say, however, that weve come to a point that people are willing to accept that their president is not honest. They can hear lies, they can hear deceptions and somehow it doesnt move the needle at all. Or in some cases the needle actually goes up. John, you wrote something in the article attributed to david winston. You said they knew the foibles. They elected him. At what point will americans gauge all of this and say this is working, or it is not . I think that happens this fall, alex, when people get very focused on the choices, that is, most people who are intending to vote in the midterms which is not a majority of americans. But theyre going to take a look at arguments by the candidates and decide, is this republican government in washington helping me or not. The results so far are not encouraging for republicans. The question is, are they bad enough to flip control of the house and senate to the democrats . And thats whats still out there to be determined. If the president s really at 49 , as that reuters poll showed, others dont show that. But if he is, that is a very good sign for congress because the votes for congress in midterm elections are highly correlated with how the people feel about the incumbent president of the United States. If donald trump is at 49 , democrats are not taking over the house and senate this fall. Interesting right there. Renee graham, john harwood, thank you both. We are have talked about the pr effect on this broadcast today. Coming up, were going to have questions about the legal impact of Rudy Giulianis tv appearances. Products, Fisher Investments avoids them. Some advisers have hidden and layered fees. Fisher investments never does. And while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, Fisher Investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. Maybe thats why most of our clients come from other money managers. Fisher investments. Clearly better money management. A hilton getaway means you get more because. You get another day in paradise. Get a sunset on a sunday. Get more stories to share. Get more from your Summer Getaway with exclusive hilton offers. Book yours, only at hilton. Com copd makes it hard to breathe. So to breathe better, i go with anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say, go this way. 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You can save 400 bucks or more a year, which you can spend on a funktastic music video. Dance party boom. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Come see how you can save 400 or more a year with Xfinity Mobile. Plus, ask how to keep your current phone. Visit your local xfinity store today. Jay sekulow and Rudy Giuliani have both commented publicly on the north korean hostages. Are they involved in their efforts for their release . Not that im aware. Why are they commenting . Sarah Huckabee Sanders on why President Trumps team would speak on the issue without an official announcement. Lets bring in republican congressman Francis Rooney of florida. Hes the vice chairman of the Foreign Affairs committee. Its good to see you again. Thank you for joining me. Right off the bat, how concerned are you that Rudy Giuliani or anyone within the administration would specifically comment on the three americans detained in north korea before any formal announcement is made . Well, im concerned about several things that mr. Giuliani said the other day. Particularly in the situation of hostage situations, its better to be quiet in particular to whats going on behind the scenes. Do you want to articulate the other things you had concerns about . I think you were just talking about some of them. Okay. Then well stay on this topic. Okay. Im curious of your understanding of how close we are to getting freedom for these three detained americans. I dont know. I havent heard anything. Were out of session this week. Ill probably get some pretty good afternoon in monday afternoon, unless they get released sooner. One thing about it, the president s unique style has done more to get north korea to the table than the preceding three add three administrations. Now with john bolton in the loop, i think we may have an opportunity to solve this problem. Well, it is true, the president s actions have brought things to the table. How things end is another matter. Im curious to the signs that you need to see in the next few weeks that any deal with north korea is definitely heading in the right direction . Yeah, i think they are, like i say, china engaged in more than the previous administrations managed to get them to do. North korea is seemi